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Georgina, you're you're famous and inspirational yourself. And I'm wondering, do you have people in your career that you've met that are either famous inspirational or or people that you just absolutely just remember for, you know, other reasons that that you want to talk about. Oh, well, I can talk about sort of some famous people that I've I've met or, um, very high profile me, you know? Well, you can't help it sometimes in [00:00:30] in the world that you move in. I mean from the entertainment industry or whether it's in the political sphere. But, you know, the queen, um, who I've met several times, Um, as a when I was mayor of Carterton was the first time I met the queen in, um 1995 and came out with my famous quip on my remarking to Mrs Bulger, the prime Minister's wife of the day, who said to me, I see you've just been introduced to the queen, and I said, [00:01:00] Yeah, she's the first real queen I've ever met. And, um, that sort of ended up as a headline the next day in the newspaper or something. And and then in 2000 and, um and And in 2000, when I was, um, part of a parliamentary delegation to the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association conference and, um, which was being hosted in London and in Edinburgh that year. And I was, um and I met her again there, and, [00:01:30] uh and she remembered me because on our first meeting, when I'd been mayor of CARTERTON, she had recognised the name Carter. And there's a carterton in Oxfordshire, in England and nearby as an Air Force base. And she and the family fly in and out of there from time to time. Um, so we had this sort of Oh, yes. Well, we're gonna have a sister city relationship with in the UK and so on and so forth. And then, um, the last time I met the Queen [00:02:00] was, um, in 2002 on her Golden Jubilee tour and, uh, world tour that she was making, and she came to New Zealand. And I, for whatever reason, found myself in the official receiving line out at the airport when she first arrived. Um, Sylvia Cartwright was our governor general then, and I think Jim Anderton stood in as Deputy Prime Minister. Um, that day, Uh, for Helen, And I was there as not only a member [00:02:30] of the government, but, um because I'm to Wellington and I was there with the little Maori group. That was, in fact, a relative had rung up and sort of said, Oh, Uncle, such and such can't make it. And you're in the government and you come out to the airport and there I was. And, um, and the queen and I, um, met sort of quite publicly there. In fact, that photograph over there was that meeting and, um, the press pack that arrived with her that day, um, on on the plane and Prince Philip [00:03:00] was with her. Um, when it got to her and I shaking hands and meeting, you know, pictures were taken and and of course, that news went around the world instantaneously. And it was front pages of all the British newspapers the next day with funny headlines like by George, It's the queen, you know, and stuff like that. And it was all sort of quite heart lighthearted and and nice. Uh, two days later, we have a state luncheon or state dinner at Parliament at the beehive for, [00:03:30] uh, for the Queen and Prince Philip. And Helen got abs. Helen Clark got absolutely ridiculed because she wore evening trousers to the state dinner rather than a formal dress or whatever like that. And she got absolutely ridiculed in the British newspapers for that. And I got all this good PR, um you know, for, um, me and the queen meeting and just on the likely more serious side of that, the queen is aware of everyone she's going to meet in an official receiving line, especially [00:04:00] when she first arrives in a country. And so she's made aware, um, by her minders and help us, you know, who's gonna be in the receiving line and she's being as she's being escorted down. If anyone had expressed to her that I was going to be there and the potential for some possible embarrassment because this is the world's first transsexual member of parliament is going to be in the receiving line, you might want to avoid, you know, in case there's some funny photos of Well, that didn't happen. [00:04:30] And of course we were fine and because we had met before, Um, and that speaks volumes to me of someone like the queen that I don't know whether or not she would have made a conscious decision to sort of think. Well, what? Um, half the staff in Buck House must be gay. You know, What would I be worried about? Um, necessarily. And that sort of was good. So the queen I've met, um, Prince Edward and Prince Andrew and Prince Charles. [00:05:00] So that sort of takes care of the British royal family. Oh, and of course, yes. I did meet the Duke of Edinburgh, but, I mean, he's a homophobe from way back. And, um and I must admit his hello to me at that 2002. Arrival in New Zealand was brief and Curt and he couldn't get away from me quick enough. Um, so that was that. But who cares? He's nearly dead. Um, and, um gosh, who else have I met? [00:05:30] Oh, Ruby Wax. Jerry Hall. Graham Norton. I met them on a visit to the UK in 2002 and doing a TV programme with Ruby wax. Um, some of our own New Zealanders, I think I've always I was always pleased to meet, you know, Howard Morrison, Ed Hillary, sir Ed Hillary, who I've met on several occasions. Wonderful, wonderful man and always very hospitable with me. I think I met him when I was mayor [00:06:00] of and, um and certainly when I was an MP. And in fact, I've got some photos of me and him and Lady Hillary, um, together at a function. We were all a big showcase thing that was happening at the Westpac Stadium in Wellington a few years back. Uh, Howard Morrison. Sam. Neil, Um, Melvin a major. Um God, if I try to remember all of the, you know, they're all fabulous people, [00:06:30] and I'm always humbled to have, you know, ever been able to be in the same room with them. You know, politicians. I mean, gosh, um, you know Jenny Shipley, Lucy Lawless. Um, I'm just looking at the cover of, um, the woman's weekly that I was in the other week. Um, then you've got people like John Banks. I Well, uh, yes. I hardly put them in the I admire, um, column or anything like that. Well, how how How do you deal with somebody? Like, you know, I'm thinking like, John Banks [00:07:00] and maybe some of the conservative MP S in parliament as any queen would expect me to behave with them. Um, the first time I ever physically met John Banks, I was mayor of CARTERTON. He was a national party minister in the national government of the 19 nineties. And, um, it may not be widely known to many people, [00:07:30] but John Banks has a history in CARTERTON. His parents and family were from carterton. And indeed, he, um, lived there as a child. Um, I think for some time, and he had a school teacher called Myra Thomas, um, who lived just down the road from me and Carter. And one day I'm walking home from my mayoral office and I'm going home and I'm walking past Myra's in front of Myra's house. And who the hell should have just pulled up in her front lawn? But John [00:08:00] Banks and John had gone to visit her, and I walk past and says, Huh, Mr Banks, what are you doing in my town? I sort of said to him, Oh, you know, So it was all lovely and jovial, and I'd say this because he also did a, um, Radio Pacific talkback show. And on occasions he had me on and would try to ridicule me and run me down and be, you know, mean and nasty And, you know, and that kind of thing, you know, on the radio, I used to give as good as I got. [00:08:30] I must admit, now, here he was face to face with me, so that was sort of a bit funny. Um, otherwise, I've had nothing to do with John Banks at all until oh, actually, this year, some time, And I was visiting Parliament, and, um, I was getting on a lift at in Bowen house and, um, who should hop into the lift. But Peter Dunn, who I know, and he's my local MP currently at the moment anyhow. And John Banks. So it's just the three of us in the lift. And I go, Ah, Mr Banks. Georgina. I remember me [00:09:00] and he looked at me as though, you know, if his ass could get any tighter, you know, he thought like I was going to do something, you know, whatever to him. He just looked absolutely perplexed and couldn't say a word. Oh, hello. Um, you know, like that and couldn't wait to get to his floor so that he could get out. But, um, I get comfort out of their discomfort. Put it that way because it's their problem, not mine. Get over it, baby. And I think the other thing too is that you know, when you're in parliament and a politician and, you know, parliamentarian was sort of equals [00:09:30] in lots of ways. I mean, you know, I might be who I am with my back story, and he might be who he is with his back story. But in Parliament, you know, you're an MP. Well, I've been one too, so that's not so great of it, you know, Um, so what's the difference there? Um, who else? Brian Neeson was another MP who was sort of always seemed to be offended that I breathed the same air as they did. And I can remember. One day we were passing each other in the underground escalators [00:10:00] under the beehive, which go under the beehive and across to Bowen house. I was going down and he was coming up down one side. And whenever he used to come past me, I'd get this grim look and he'd sort of go flush on the cheeks a little bit, sort of, you know, outraged that I was, you know, sort of there. And one day I just check And I said, Look, Brian, why don't you get that heated roller out of your arse and lighten up a bit? Well, he just about went optic, everything like that. And everyone who was an earshot around me who [00:10:30] heard it just absolutely cracked up and see. I could get away with that sort of stuff and everybody would sort of like it. And, um, I remember once in the chamber Tony Ryle, um, who was wearing colourful ties and shirts and sort of mismatched with his nicely tailored suits and things like that. And he was one for great guest gestation in the chamber while he was giving a speech. And one day and one day he's giving a great and passionate [00:11:00] speech about something, and he's in opposition. Um, you know, at the time of throwing his hands around like that and just straight out of my mouth at one particular point, I just I just threw my hands in there. I went Oh, girlfriend. Right. I just heckled that across the chamber and you know, he's he just brought him it completely interrupted his flow and he wasn't expecting it. And I think he was trying to analyse whether or not he could take a point of order and ask me to withdraw and apologise. But, you know, somebody saying girlfriend and [00:11:30] heckling that across the chamber is an intervention. And of course, if he'd said anything if he had actually stopped and, um and replied to me or anything like that, it would have been noted in the hand. So the so it would have read in the hand side that he's talking away, talking away, talking away, and then suddenly girlfriend comes out across the chamber and then he reacts to it. And so I have my I have my fun [00:12:00] sometimes, you know, um, as far as that was concerned. But I have to say, generally, I, I I received, um, respect from most people. I mean, if people had adverse feelings about me or people like me or anything like that, they, by and large kept it to themselves were never foolish enough to use it as a personal attack at any time in the house or in any debates or anything like that, because it just wouldn't be worth doing it. And I'd end up looking much better than they would [00:12:30] if they were going to do that sort of thing. And I didn't promulgate it either. You know, I didn't sort of use it as some kind of mechanism other than when you yell out. Well, it was boring in the chamber that day. What else? Our girlfriend. You just sort of. It was like Pinky Agnew came to the chamber one day and she says to me after she said, God, I never thought I would have run in our parliament and see a member sitting down there wearing feathers and a bit of sequin in the chamber because I happen to have this top that had a bit of feather and sometimes a bit of twinkle, [00:13:00] you know, in there. And, you know, because usually people dress down and very conservative, I thought, Oh, no, damn it. You know, add a bit of glam, you know, to the chamber. And I could do that and and get away with it, I suppose. And it was within the dress code, you know, there was you know, it wasn't Didn't look like Jeanette FitzSimons, you know, Didn't have a bad hair do like said Bradford. But, um, what about, um, favourite interviews that you mentioned that you were interviewed by what, [00:13:30] Um, Ruby Wax. Ruby wax? Yes. Um, I went to London to represent Parliament at the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association conference as part of a New Zealand delegation, but that was in 2000. But in late 1999 Ruby Wax had been in New Zealand doing a, um, a comedy concert, um, thing. And she had a show in Wellington at the Saint James Theatre. And, um, I, along with Malcolm Vaughan and his partner Scottie, and one or two [00:14:00] others had been asked to judge a ruby wax look alike competition. And, uh, the winner would be announced. And the prize presented, um, after Ruby's first show, and that's exactly what happened. And, uh, we met Ruby Wax and Ruby Wax was fascinated by me. And so she gave me her telephone number, and I thought, You're right. Like, you know, I could just phone you up or anything. However, it's pretty telling when I tell you that I kept [00:14:30] the telephone number just in case. If I happen to be, you know, somewhere. And then, as it turned out a few months later, there I am in London. Um, and it's part of this delegation. And I had the phone number, and so I rang it, and it was her private home phone number, so she was serious. And long story short. She said, Oh, thank God you're here, and I'd love you to Come on. She has a chat show called Ruby's Round Table, or she did at that time. And, um, she wanted me to come and be a guest on it. Um, [00:15:00] my conference ended its London, um, a leg of the, uh conference, and we relocated to Edinburgh. And the day after we arrived there, I had to fly back down to London to go and do this, um, interview with Ruby and I, um, went flew back down. Now we had a TV NZ reporter called Mina Roderick, who was covering, Um, you know, European news for TV NZ [00:15:30] there, And, uh, we'd run into her at a function at the Australian Embassy, and, um, she was covering what? The New Zealand delegation of the conference blah were doing. And I mentioned to her that I was coming back to do this interview with Ruby Wax. So she was very keen on getting a bit of that. And so was there at Heathrow Airport to, um, catch up with me. When I arrived back down to go to the BBC, I was met by a, um, a minder person, And then I was shown to this limousine. I was given all [00:16:00] the red carpet treatment was very sort of impressed with all of this, and she jumps in the car with me and off we go to Shepherd's Bush, the TV Studios, and arrive in there and whisked in. And then Ruby and I are sitting in the makeup room and Graham Norton was also on the show and he, um, arrived. I didn't know him then and nor did New Zealand. Really. His show hadn't started playing in New Zealand. Now, of course, he's very famous now, Um, here. So he was, um, going to be part of the show and, um, Jerry [00:16:30] Hall and I was absolutely, you know, star struck when Jerry Hall I realised it was Jerry Hall that was going to be there. And we were sitting next to each other throughout the two hours of this thing that we were doing and in the makeup room, comparing to jobs and all that sort of stuff that we were doing together. And, um And in fact, at the end of the whole, um, record for the, um for the roundtable chatty thing, she said to me, Jerry all said to me, She says, Oh, you know, why don't you come out [00:17:00] with me tonight? You know, I've got this fabulous Ron was opening a new bar, such and such and thing you know, why don't you come along and I was torn between Oh, my God, Yes, please. I would love to go, um, to something like that, torn between that and my duty to New Zealand, which was to return to the conference, of course in Edinburgh. Unfortunately, I chose the latter. I wished I'd gone to that bloody do. I mean, what was another day out of the conference? You know, the PR [00:17:30] for New Zealand would have been much greater if I had gone to the opening of Ron Wood's new bar and restaurant or whatever it was with all the glitterati. No doubt that would be there. But no, it didn't come to Perth. So that was That was wonderful. Um um, in stark contrast to my encounter with, um with the Roseanne bar, we we never actually physically met, but we met via technology on a video link. Um, she wanted me to come on her show as [00:18:00] a guest, so I beamed in from New Zealand. But it turned out to be an absolute nightmare, uh, for me, and she just ridiculed me. And I felt horrible after doing that and wished I'd never participated in it and was dreading that it was going to show in New Zealand at some time, because, um, you know I? I was newly elected to parliament, so I behaved myself, and I just sort of took the, um the insults that were flying from her and the innuendo that was [00:18:30] flying from her, um, things like, um, you know, So this is the world's first transsexual member of parliament. Well, I don't think it's fair that you should be able to, because you don't have to have periods and you don't have to have Children. And she went on and on, like this. And And I sort of sat there, and my only retort was, Well, you could become a lesbian, Roseanne, Um, you know, but, um, to a live audience that she was in front of in, um in Los Angeles or where [00:19:00] she was located. I was in a in a Wellington building, um, here. And like I said, we were doing a video link thing, and I felt terrible. And we did that on a Saturday. And on Monday morning, I turn up at my office at Parliament and this fax arrives, remember, faxes and this fax arrives and, um saying, Oh, could I please sign this release form now? I had already signed a release form. What I didn't [00:19:30] realise was the release form I had signed was release for still photography. This release form was for the interview, and I seized my chance, and I went Oh, no way am I going to be signing this? And I wrote a, um uh, facts back, um, to her and, um and said, I want you to remove all you know, all of my interview. I don't want to be on your programme. Take [00:20:00] it off. I do not release permission for me to be on it. Take it out. Take it out. And they said, Oh, you can't do that. You can't do that. And I said, Well, yes, I can. I just have. And I haven't signed a release form. And if you don't comply with my wishes on this and just remove me entirely from your TV programme, um, I'll sue you for millions and, um, left it at that. And I think a few days later I had to go to, um Australia. And would you believe they followed me That they found me in Australia and rang [00:20:30] me up. Please. But I hurry up and sign this release form and send it back. They had to put this programme to air shortly, blah, blah, blah and all this sort of thing. I mean, no, no, no, no, no. She was furious. I won in the end, and, um and there was no nothing of me on this particular programme. So few was I pleased. Yes, I was a nasty piece of work that bitches other famous people I don't know. Um, [00:21:00] a lot of our I've met a few of our governor generals now, um, quite amazing people in their own particular ways. Um, they aren't terribly interesting, are they? Dame Keith was probably our first governor general, and she was the one who introduced me to the queen for the first time. And, um, Dame Keith, Sylvia Cartwright, and, um and, uh, some Michael Hardy boys. And people like that. Yeah, yeah, no. [00:21:30] And now I'm just name dropping. And that's what it ends up sounding like half the time. Um, the world's second transsexual to be elected to a parliament of Vladimir Lauria. It was That was quite a historic meeting that her and I had at a, um, at a gay conference at the Mexican Parliament. Um, a few years ago. Unfortunately, she was only in parliament for about nine months. She was in the government that did not last very long in Italy. They seem to roll [00:22:00] over every other day, um, over there. And, uh but it doesn't take away from the fact that she was the second a chap called Sunil Babu Pant, who was one of Nepal's first out gay members of parliament. And after I had finished my time in parliament, he and I met up at a, um at a uh oh, the out games conference in Copenhagen. [00:22:30] And there he asked me if I would come to Nepal, uh, to help him because he was part of, um, a committee that was drafting the new constitution over there. And what I come over because they were looking at the human rights chapter of the Constitution. And, um, would I come over to a talk with that committee about, you know, since I was elected in New Zealand and some of the other things that were civil unions [00:23:00] and other law and things like that that we've done here and given my own sort of track record and stuff and what I go over and sort of make a wee contribution to that, uh, that was remarkable. I did go there. I met the president, the prime minister, the all of the government at the time, um, to sort of lobby, I suppose, to have, um, uh, human rights or some aspects of human rights that well, in fact, what they've included to be a first in the world over there is uh, um uh, rights of equality and human [00:23:30] rights. for what they call the third sex, Um, in their draught constitution over there. So I provided them with a few words. So I've got a little bit of an input into the new draught constitution. Um, that was quite a remarkable trip. Um, and so very brave. He has an amazing sort of NGO that he called the Blue Diamond Society, I think. And, um, he's visited New Zealand as a guest here from time to time. Um, over the last few years, I haven't been in touch with him recently, and I'm not sure if he's [00:24:00] still in, uh in Parliament over there, but that was an interesting, um, opportunity. I mean, other than just people, I think the opportunities I've had, um, just through being an elected member in the New Zealand parliament with the distinction of being transsexual, has opened up doors to to other conferences of international human rights, whether [00:24:30] it be United Nations or HIV conferences. I've been to Kobe. I've been to Montreal and Toronto. I've I've helped numerous other, um, gay organisations around the world with fundraising things where I might have been over there to, you know, to do things, but I didn't. You don't realise until you know, you go to these things and you're asked to do keynote addresses and things like that and you tell your story and you tell your, um experience [00:25:00] and and some of their philosophies and opinions on things like that and that it it It has a huge amount of significance for the audience and for the people who are listening. And I've sat on panels where I've been amongst gay and lesbian, and I've been the only transgender, you know, politician, um, sitting there on these panels and it's quite interesting whether they're gay or lesbian or [00:25:30] transgender, I guess. But it's interesting that our stories have have similarities about how we got to be where we are and the challenges that we faced in getting there, or the reactions or the whatever and that there's a whole audience of, um, LGBTI and others who are very keen and interested to pick our brains on how we might have navigated our way through, because it's about sharing [00:26:00] our experience so that others who are aspiring to get there, but because they might live in jurisdictions where their regimes are far more punitive it's far more difficult or, um, just, you know, take the United States the so called land of the free. And yet, um, you know, really, until Obama and his recent utterances has sort of enforced that, you know, gay, equal rights and human rights and stuff, Um, you've got this mishmash of states that do and states that don't, [00:26:30] um And then you've got this horrible juxtaposition of of of Russia at the moment that are creating laws to be even more punitive. I mean, for some gay communities around the world, uh, take Iran. That's still the death penalty. Um, you know, um, but in others, you know they're seeing the light or there are these debates going over same sex marriage, you know, we're up to there, but in other countries, they're still just trying to get on the first rung. And and so it's incumbent [00:27:00] upon those of us that have had the chances and opportunities Gay, lesbian, You know, the LGBTI communities who have been able to politically make it somewhere to share what we what they think what value we have to offer. And so some of the most inspirational people I've met have been the underprivileged LGBTI community people who might have come across and met Who, um, let's take. I visited Madrid once [00:27:30] in Spain to, um it was actually to help promote, uh, Georgie Girl, Uh, a documentary. And while I was there, I had arranged that I would also go and meet a delegation of Spanish politicians and MP S. But the local transgender group in Madrid, um, who were also part of the national organisation, that they have, uh, met up with me at the screening of the Georgie Girl film, which was a part [00:28:00] of a gay film festival they were having in in in Madrid, you know, at the time. And so I spent some time with them and they were talking to me about how they just cannot make any headway with any political, um, support or lobbying or whatever in their parliament and their politicians that they have never been able to get a face to face meeting with any MP S or or engage with parliament or anything like that at all. Um, and they and they wanted to know from me, you know, how do I think they should be able to [00:28:30] do it. And I said, Well, actually, I'm going to the parliament tomorrow. I said, why don't you come with me? And they looked at me like I was mad or something. I said, not all of you get three of you Come with me. And so three of them came with me. They were still suspicious about what was going to happen. I arrived at the parliament. It was a big news thing that I was turning up at the parliament and I had to go through the paparazzi and all this sort of thing. And then I was formally met this corridor, you know, with [00:29:00] these 10 MP S that I was meeting with, and they met in photos of the media and all this sort of thing, and these queens were with me, you know, the whole way. And then we get into this room for this meeting that we're having. And so we're all seated down at the table. And these three, Spanish, um, queens are with me, and, um, the introductions are made et cetera, et cetera. And I said, Look, I'd like to forfeit, um, five minutes of my time with you to [00:29:30] these transgender people, And would that be OK? And it was OK, and I said, There's five minutes go for it And they they introduced themselves, handed around their business cards, um, exchanged cards with the with the MP S that were sitting there, um managed to get, um, a commitment for them to be seen, you know, later on, at some further the day to make an appointment and all of that. And that was that. And then I carried [00:30:00] on with my meeting with them and all of that sort of thing. Afterwards, they all broke down and howled and cried and were in disbelief that this had just happened. They said that in one fell swoop I had achieved for them what they had taken them a long years, almost to ever get that close, even to get anywhere near that, um, you know, the seat of power and that I'd taken care of it for them just like that. And, um, like that. And I said, Well, [00:30:30] no big deal. I said, uh, what else should I do? I said the opportunity was there. I've I've done nothing except make an introduction and used an opportunity that I had. It's no skin off my nose, but to them it meant the world. And of course, it was the beginning of an establishing some relationship and rapport with some MP S in that parliament for that particular group. And, uh, which they, you know, treated like [00:31:00] gold. They gave me a beautiful gift when I left. Um um, of, uh, Sorosky jewellery. Um, Millennium Edition. You know, one off a Millennium Edition Beautiful pendant. I still have it. And just they wanted to show their appreciation. And that's what I mean by sometimes rather than meeting people and famous this and that and movers and shakers, it's those kinds of things that are more inspirational. And you sort of think that whatever I might have achieved [00:31:30] and whatever I might have done, it can transfer into helping other people. If you if you give it the you know, the opportunity and that, actually, it's it's a responsibility that I have, Even though I'm out of politics, even though nobody here in this country seems to give a shit about what I want to do or anything or anything like that that out there it still matters and no one can ever take away from. You know, the fact that, um, this country and me on that little [00:32:00] microcosm of life, um, we were first in the world, and that inspired many others of us out there to that, that it's possible. And we did that. New Zealand did that. And, um and it's just helped to feed through, embolden and keep active, um, and motivated others out there who are way less fortunate than you or I. We think we have hard times and that we fight our battles. Oh, honey, [00:32:30] it's nothing compared to some countries around the world who will never know the justice that we know. And, um and it's our responsibility, actually, in a civilised country and world to make sure we can do what we can and share what we can to help uplift them so that they are up with us. You know, our life ain't so bad after all, at the end of the day, um, compared to others, so that's been an inspiration. And, um, you know, [00:33:00] and to think that I had that little piece that I can you know that I given to the world, and, um, and the little old wire rapper, the little old conservative right wing wire rapper. Did that look overlooked at and you see? And that's inspirational in itself. Um, there's me and my back story and there's me and and my abilities and all of that sort of thing. But none of it would have happened [00:33:30] if it hadn't been for a rural conservative area. And it needed to be that not gay, you know, not downtown CBD Wellington, not, you know, some beautiful, leafy middle class, liberal suburb, No rural, conservative New Zealand who are able to overlook any of my, you know, mistakes of the past or whatever like that take me at face value [00:34:00] and mutually, you know, honest about, you know, nothing hidden. No surprises. And all of that Who said Yeah, we think we can trust you to be a good advocate for us, a good representative for us and, um, you know and give you the chance and put you into these positions, and that's who put me there, and that's that's a That's a fantastic story. And if you can transfer that to other areas where [00:34:30] you think against all odds, against all the odds Well, think again. It could. It could happen, but it comes down to, I think, The other day, when we were talking, you talked about five things that I it was funny as you read them back to me and and as you were going and I was going, Yes, I still stand And yes, they, you know, be upfront and honest. You know, don't hide anything, you know, Be out there, face the challenges and all. Yeah, I do. It's been a reasonable mantra to live by.
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