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Today. Sunday. The 27th of June is the first day of gay pride. Week 1982 as an introduction to Gay Pride Week. We'd like to replay gay radio first broadcast during Gay Pride Week last year. Yeah, well, I think we all know, um, most of us know from a very early age. [00:00:30] Um, we have an intrinsic feeling whether that we're sort of somehow different. Um, perhaps not everyone actually defines it or or puts a word on it until, um, they're a bit older. Maybe in their late teens. Um, with some people, it's gonna even go on until they, um you know, into them middle age. Um, it sort of varies quite a bit. Um, and you don't actually tend to, um, to form your own personality [00:01:00] as being gay and living as a gay person until sort of, you know, after you've been out for a few years. And, uh, I was quite fortunate that, uh, that we met and have been living together for for two years now, and and that sort of has helped me develop personally, um, we we identify with the, um you know, with with our own sex I mean, as as a gay male. I don't wish to become a woman, nor do I feel [00:01:30] that I you know, I am particularly feminine, and I have no doubts about my masculinity. Um, I don't wish to be a woman, and I don't wish to dress in women's clothing. I think this is probably, um, part of the fear that people have about us. I mean, you know, we're we're everywhere. We we we're much the same as as the average, um, sort of Joe blogs in the street. We're really not much different in the final analysis. But, um, I think people like to delude themselves that, um, we are different [00:02:00] by creating these weird stereotypes so that it isolates the whole question of homosexuality from them. Therefore, because it's this, it's portrayed as a strange kind of stereotype. They therefore don't have to fear it quite so much because it's not, um, it's not normal, and they are basically it means I'm free. That means I'm free from what I see is the repressive male stereotypes that are forced on men in our society, you know, because I don't fit into them because I love [00:02:30] other men. Um, and because I don't fit into the the stereotypes they have for queers and ers and fairies, you know, I means I've got to define my own lifestyle. I've got to define my own values, Um, and the way I choose to live my life and that gives me a hell of a lot of freedom to, um, to explore different alternatives. I'm I'm not straitjacketed by the by what's expected of me. Um, it means I'm free [00:03:00] to be emotional to show emotions. I can cry if I want to. Um, you know, I don't have to be frightened of of admitting that I like flowers, for instance, or that I like doing unmanly things. It means that I can be open in my relationships with other men and with and with women, uh, it becomes a lot easier. Men are expected to to, uh, treat women as sex objects. But when you don't relate to women sexually, [00:03:30] you can treat them as full human beings. I had been living with a woman for two years before I came out. The only reason why I came out was I fell head over heels in love with a man, Uh, which completely threw me. And, um, it meant it meant a hell of a long time, but it meant about six months of basically, it was sheer hell, because my whole world had crumbled around me, [00:04:00] and I had to had to sort it all out again. You know, I had to sort out my relationship with Helen, the woman I was living with. Um, And as it turned out, we stopped living together. Um, I had to sort of sort my own mind out where I stood with all my friends. Um, And then what was off? The most anxious part was, um here I was. I knew I was gay, but I didn't know any other gay men because the man who I fell in love with was up in Auckland. Um, [00:04:30] so perhaps one of the most anxious moments I had were trying to make contact with other gay men and not knowing what to expect. My flatmates. Well, they really pushed me into meeting meeting other gays. One of them even dragged me along to the first meeting I ever went to with other gay. Where there are other gays was one of the gay pride meetings, great gay Pride Week meetings. Um, and [00:05:00] all my friends, the interesting bit is none of them were surprised to find out that I was gay. Um, and they were all incredibly supportive, especially Helen Thorman. I used to live with. So that was a great help in the time that I was sort of reassessing work, you know, my entire life it's can sometimes be hard at work. You hear anti gay jokes and so on. You sometimes lack the energy to actually jump [00:05:30] up and do anything about them. Everywhere you go, you can hear anti gay jokes. You can odd comments, people pass in the street. Also, you're subjected just to the great barrage of heterosexual ideas. The big romantic movies you see in the cinema which are always heterosexual, which have got the man and the woman running off happily hand in hand into the sunset at the end. That type of thing is oppressive. [00:06:00] Well, being where I am now, of course, I'd know what to do because I'm in the middle of it all. Um, if I wasn't I don't know, I'd probably look in the personal columns in the newspaper I might perhaps find a copy of out or pink triangle in a news agent in town. Uh, I might, for instance, see the advertisement for the Wellington Gay switchboard in the newspaper and phone them up to [00:06:30] find out what there is. Well, the switchboard has been set up, um, primarily as an information service with a view to, um, acting as a telephone counselling service. Um, when we can develop the the resources and the people, um, trained to to be able to do it. Um, but basically, at the moment, it is just an information service. The types of calls that we generally get are are fairly varied. Um, most [00:07:00] of them, however, are gay people wanting to know where they can meet other gay people. Um, and that is basically what we are sort of designed to do at the moment. Generally, the sorts of problems that most well, not necessarily most, but that a lot of, um, gay people face is that of isolation and loneliness. Um, and we hope to overcome some of these things by, um uh, in the long term, bringing people [00:07:30] out of themselves, helping them to accept and acknowledge their sexuality to try and develop a positive image about themselves. A lot of straight, um, people, particularly men, have this kind of paranoia that they they think it's actually possible, um, for them to be converted, um, and it's manifest in the in the fear, which they often show towards us. Um, I mean, if if a man is some secure about his own sexuality, then he should [00:08:00] he should he should have nothing to actually, um, you know, fear by by the presence of another gay person. Yet a lot of straight men are very, very, um upset. And, um, quite, uh, freaked out by, you know, suddenly discovering that a close work associate of theirs is gay or a close friend of theirs is gay. We generally call this homophobia. I mean, there there's no way that a person's sexual orientation can be changed. I mean, there's no way that a person who is essentially heterosexual can be can be changed unless [00:08:30] he has those intrinsic sorts of qualities anymore than I can be turned into a heterosexual by some kind of crazy psychotherapy. I mean, this is what they used to do to us. We've been we've been, um, tortured in all sorts of of guises in the hope of making us normal. I mean, aversion therapy is a classical example of this sort of thing. And it has been practised, you know, in years gone by. And anyone who's, for example, seen clockwork Orange knows what the implications of aversion therapy are all about. [00:09:00] Um, you know, we don't We're quite happy as we are. We don't want to change. We don't need to change. Um, I am not sick. It is the attitudes of society which is sick. The direction I'm heading in is for the destruction of the present society and the creation of a new kind of society in which everybody is free to be what he or she wants to be rather than what the Pope or Miss Bartlett tells us to be. The Society for the Prevention of Community Standards. What do you think they're [00:09:30] on about? Basically, they were very right, right wing organisation that sort of dedicated to maintaining what That what was the status quo many years ago? Um, being essentially Christian based, they tend to interpret the Bible as they were told to interpret it when they were Children. I see it as a as a middle aged organisation, middle aged and older, who want to return to the good old days. Back when men were men [00:10:00] and women were women and wars were wars and everybody went to them and killed each other. And it was wonderful. Um I. I think they're very narrow minded and they were and repress people themselves. I think they have to be just, you know, for for them to think in the way that they do and to deny other people their you know, the rights to think for themselves. I just I really can't comprehend it myself. I can [00:10:30] only think of it in the terms of bigotry. A section of Wellington's gay community has attacked the society for the promotion of community standards for what it sees as the society's oppression of homosexual rights. About a dozen people picketed a society meeting in Wellington last night in what spokesman John Thor says is just the beginning of protest action against the society. Mr Thor says the society has been campaigning to have gay publications banned by calling them pornographic. He says the society sees homosexuals [00:11:00] as a threat because they lead a lifestyle different from the traditional one. Demonstrations like this object to them quite entitled to put their point of view. You know, any gay people? Well, I couldn't be sure of that. I don't know. Not to my knowledge, not to my knowledge [00:11:30] about people. I do know. Quite a lot of gay people. Yes. And do you support their issues? Their rights? I do very much. What do you hope to hear or otherwise at the meeting today? I am here to try and pick up the distortions, the exaggerations, the misuse of statistics, uh, gross attacks on groups who are trying to make it a more civilised community. [00:12:00] Uh, we're here to protest at the SP CS action in attempting to ban certain gay and lesbian literature which we don't consider to be pornographic. They aren't making the distinction between pornography and legitimate gay and lesbian material. And we're going to turn up to more and more of these sorts of meetings and voice our protest because we consider the SP CS to be an instrument [00:12:30] of oppression. Right? No way. Excuse me. Do you support gay rights? No comment. What do you feel about the people outside. What do you feel about the people outside? You know what they're protesting against? What do you What are they talking about? Do you know? Oh, they they, um I don't know that the gay they're gays, [00:13:00] I don't know. It is to introduce to your world figure who has saved his life on the part of a worthwhile purpose. Mr. Lemon Goer is a lawyer from Los Angeles who works with the legal staff of the citizens of Law. So I'm here to discuss kind of a controversial subject. Obviously, that's the first [00:13:30] time in all my years of experience I've had that kind of a greeting jumping into the hall and I share the prayer that was offered up to those people. It's unfortunate that their viewpoint could be that different than that of ours and how they could possibly turn what most of us would consider to be just on its face, an evil thing. It was something they considered to be good. It's hard to imagine, But again, I think it was indicated we should pray for them and maybe pray for ourselves if people have to be imposed too strongly by what they're doing. But that's the first time even in [00:14:00] I've been in the, uh, so called homosexual capitals of the world, I guess in San Francisco and even parts of Los Angeles. And yet I've never seen that kind of a protest at a public meeting, so it's very kind of interesting. So give me something to tell about when I get back home that I was Yes, I did come to New Zealand. I [00:14:30] I am appalled that people will stand up and have two sanctimonious prayers condemning people and at the same time saying that so and would you please pray until the speaker is finished? And then you can have your safe if you wish that one, Thank you very much [00:15:00] out there are saying something, and you are so narrow minded that you refuse. A couple of years ago, lesbian and gay groups made submissions to the Human Rights Commission. Could you tell us something about those submissions and the outcome of them? I could tell you that those submissions were aimed at a situation in which no distinction would be made between men and women or between heterosexual and homosexual. [00:15:30] The outcome is quite clear. The Human Rights Commission and the government said, Go and get lost. We want to preserve a distinction between men and women. We want to preserve a distinction between heterosexual and homosexual, and we want to preserve it in such a way that heterosexuals have all the privileges and homosexuals have none. I get well, I get very angry with them because they're so small minded and so conservative. I'm willing to to accept arguments or even to argue rationally back with you. Uh, if they could argue rationally with [00:16:00] with me or with any any other gay activists and you know, I'd have a damp up more respect for the for their findings no matter which way they went. But when they refused to argue, they refused to discuss their findings. And I think, Well, basically what? Why? Why do they refuse to discuss it? Because they're scared? Well, because they don't have any confidence. Rather in the findings that they that they have come to and when people like that are in a position of power and you can't question their authority, there are no [00:16:30] you know. But the only thing you can do is go to the ombuds person who happens to be a member of the Human Rights Commission anyway, So they've got a fat chance there. And people like that sort of have an ultimate authority, an ultimate say over the lives of thousands of New Zealanders. And I think they abuse their power, which gets me really angry. But what you know, it's a question of what you can. What can you do about it? You can get really angry. You can go out and and, um, pick up the place and that. But essentially, you're banging your head against a brick [00:17:00] wall. Um, so you know, I, I prefer to. Well, things like that will get me very angry, and I will go do some political act or write letters to the ministers to the to the papers, et cetera. I prefer to put my energy into something which would have a more positive result, such as counselling or, um, welfare work or just raising my own consciousness. I think about the only way you raise your consciousness is by talking [00:17:30] about things by discussing them, turning them inside out and just sort of analysing an entire problem or an aspect of life that maybe you haven't analysed in any depth before. And it's only by doing that that you will be able to raise your consciousness and with respect to that particular issue. And if if non gay people don't don't talk about it or aren't prepared to even think about it, then, um they're never going to be able to see past these stereotypes. And I think a lot of them men particularly, [00:18:00] um, find it frightening to have to think past their stereotypes. For instance, you know the the man at work. Yeah, they all know that I'm gay, but they constantly keep making these, um, put downs. Not to me, because I wouldn't dare to do that. But, you know, to each other, sort of saying, What are you or something? That sort of thing. Um, if I'm around, I'll question it straight away. But it's the constant little putdowns like that [00:18:30] that I think really do a lot of harm. And they they create a within the people who use them, too. They create a very negative image. Are you a Are you a No, No. I just want to remind you of the faculty rules rule one Rule two, now member of the faculty, is to maltreat the A in any way at all. If there's anybody watching Rule three. No Rule Four. Now, this time I don't want to catch anybody. Not drinking. Rule [00:19:00] five No Rule six. There is no Rule six Rule Seven that concludes the reading of the rules. Usually they say very negative things about us. I mean, how many jokes do you hear about queens Puffs or whatever? Um, most of them, um, are designed to make fun of the person concerned. And every time we laugh at that sort of joke, we put ourselves down. Oh, I love the way you were doing that. Oh, thank you. I've had a bit [00:19:30] of a morning on the bench. I could stamp my little feet the way those C carry on. Objection here. That objection there and that Nice constable giving that evidence so well, beautiful speaking voice after a bit, there was nothing I could do except bang me gavel, you love I bang my gavel. Oh, I did the silence in court, but oh, if lots of that prosecuting counsel been for 30 years, how did you swim up Well, I was quite pleased, actually. I was trying to do it in. But you know what? The jury must understand. And, you know, [00:20:00] I could see that form. I really Yes. Devil. Anyway, I finished up with Was that tall man with a very big just a minute. I must tell you, I finished up with the actions of these vicious men are a violent stain on the community, and the full penalty of the law is hardly strong enough to deal with their crimes. And I just I it was you remember that time? That super room in the manslaughter? Well, of course, this is all based upon [00:20:30] a number of types for for gay men, the stereotypes, Um, someone who, um, speaks with a lisp falsetto voice wears high heels and, um, you know, generally is very effeminate, and generally that's that's very untrue. I mean, there are a number of effeminate males around. Some of them are homosexual. Some of them are not. Some of them are heterosexual. Um, this is a stereotype which, which the straight world had Well, perhaps I shouldn't say straight which the heterosexual world [00:21:00] has. And really, um, you know, a lot of the time we we don't look significantly different from anybody else. Um, Similarly, for gay women, the, um, stereotype there is often of, um, you know, a very masculine type of woman who sort of wears gum, boots and smokes and drum and all your owns. But, you know, that's not again. That's a false stereotype. I think also, when they don't treat the subject and it's stereotypical [00:21:30] way, they just ignore it usually. And that in itself creates well. If it's if the subject is not raised, people won't think about it. People won't have a question. Whatever attitudes they've got towards it, and by ignoring it, they you know, it's effectively, um, discriminating against us. I think, for instance, close to home is quite happy to deal with bomb threats and murders and, um, marriage [00:22:00] breakdowns and premarital sex and all sorts of other wonderful things that are real life. But they consider homosexuality as as too controversial issue for them to possibly bring up. Editors have got this, um, problem with us. They're scared of their audience or what they think their audience will accept and will believe, and you get scandal magazines like truth who who will just quite happily destroy somebody. [00:22:30] Um, just so they can get a leading feature. They don't They don't care about that person. Basically, all they care about is scandal you and you're meant to be shocked by it. The people who buy it buy it because they want to be shocked. They want to, um, think, Oh, God, isn't this terrible? Isn't this horrible? And this is the way these people live and you know it. It forces just the, um, social attitudes that that already exist. It doesn't get people to think about it or question it. The listener is slightly better, though [00:23:00] it appears to have changed its stance on that. Now, um, other magazines generally confine themselves just a reporting fact. You know, you might get a feature article on a dog's home or something, but you'd never get something on a gay community centre. Well, regardless of those opinions, the basic structure of society is still the same. It is heteros. It's based on the nuclear family. It's based on the idea of [00:23:30] heterosexual marriage of pro producing Children who will go on and do the same thing of working hard of making lots of money. Society is still like that and still the same. And it's that sort of society which oppresses us. Can you give us any idea of what a society should be that would accept gay people accept other minority groups? That's a very hard question. I don't really know. That's something I'm always thinking about. It's one of those [00:24:00] things we talk about when we get together. It will be a society which is not based on hierarchies society, which won't be based on the oppressive use of power. It all sounds very idealistic, Um, whether or not we can ever get it to work in practise, I don't know I, I really hope so. And with some of the groups I'm involved and with some of the, uh, the the with the circle of friends I have, [00:24:30] I think that I might be doing something to help build up a small, supportive community based along, I hope, better lines. It's really not possible for any radical group to describe the kind of society that it's going to create if you work in with groups of gay people, and I've heard many feminists describe the same thing in working with groups of women when you see the huge amount of creativity and almost unlimited energy [00:25:00] that women working together can unleash or gays working together can unleash. You'd have to be a fool to predict the form and nature of the society that those people are going to create once they're allowed to achieve their objectives and to have a whole human race in which every woman, every gay every black person is freely contributing is freely, uh, participating in that society. You know, we we're envisaging something that, uh, no [00:25:30] human being has any perception of. At present, you've been listening to gay radio from the lesbian gay media Collective if you'd like information on gay Pride. Week 1982. Phone the gay switchboard on Wellington 728609. Any night this week, that's 728609. We'll be back next Sunday at two o'clock with another gay radio programme. [00:26:00] I don't of the stuff about the guys I can.
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