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Kia ora koutou, ngā mihi nui. Welcome to Te Waka Huia Wellington Museum. My name is Leilani Sio, and I'm a Public Program Specialist for Wheako Pōneke. Saviiey is going to be co facilitating with me. Saviiey is the Director of the Ngā Uri o Whiti Te Rā Mai Le Moana Trust, which is an amazing Pasifika Māori trust based out in Waitangirua, Porirua.[00:00:30] What do you do there? What do you do there? What don't you do? But you're on heaps of boards as well, like. You work for Inside Out, I can't keep up with you. You're on the Wellington Pride Festival board. You're the co chair, weren't you? I don't, I don't think this is, like, appropriate to be talking about myself because I'm here as a sex worker. Um, and so it's great to be present in this space, um, amongst these two amazing people. And it's also good to see a few of my sisters that I grew [00:01:00] up with here. Um, in Wellington City. I'm born and bred out in Purirua, so Māno, Lāwhanui, Saifua, Māne, Lāngia, Māmā. Um, I'm of Samoan and Māori descent. I also whakapapa back to Ngāti Porou. Um, so I am here in the capacity of just the facilitator. My other hats, don't even worry about them, they're not important. If you want to know what I do, then please look me up. [00:01:30] But obviously I'm not on TV shows like my two, my two aunties here on this side. So they beat me to it. But yeah, it's lovely to be here, lovely to see you all. And yeah, mauri ora ki te whare. Kia ora whanau. Um, welcome. I love it. It's going to be fabulous. Um, so, Ngāi Tūhoe te iwi, Ngāti Haka Pātihuhu te hapū, Um, Ōhine Mataroa [00:02:00] te awa, Ko Waiōhau te marae, Ko Jason ā tōku ingoa. I'm happy to be here. I'm living for this because I think it's missing in today's generation. Um, and to, I'm so grateful for the opportunity to share my journey, but also to be able to acknowledge the shoulders that I stand on that have helped shape who I am today. I'm so grateful for this opportunity from Leilani and the Museum and Sister Saviiey. Yeah, we'll get further on that later. But kia [00:02:30] ora and welcome. Kia ora everyone. So, um, I'm glad that they're speaking French. It's a wig. You know what, I forgot that word. Um, so my name is Adam Dehower. I'm also a performer, known as Amanda Lahore. I'm from Waikato, and Maori descent. My father's French and my mother's Maori. Um, [00:03:00] like Jochanelle said, it's an absolute honour and a privilege to be part of such a prestigious event. event, being able to relive some of the whakapapa and some of the history of our LGBTI community. I was saying to the girls outside, it's very interesting listening to young people and they talk about RuPaul's Drag Race, yes queen, yes girl. What I think a lot of the younger generation don't realize is we had [00:03:30] that in our New Zealand history. We had the RuPaul's, and there wasn't just one, it was many. We had a hierarchy, which I'm sure the girls are going to touch on. We had a sense of sisterhood, and a sense of true love and mana and dignity and integrity about our community. And as you, you'll find out, as we kōrero, um, it wasn't easy to be out in your LGBTI community, especially when you're [00:04:00] transitioning. Thank you for listening. So, to be able to sit here and listen to this korero, Jochanelle and I were lucky enough to share, um, our lives together for seven weeks and I grew so much as a person. I learned to understand and appreciate. She talks about standing on the shoulders of these amazing human beings. I learned to understand them from a distance and from a cultural perspective and it made me so proud and you can see on our television show. [00:04:30] Jochanelle and I had a symbiotic connection because we lived those lives. So what you see on television has actually lived experiences from our Tuana. So thank you very much for coming. I didn't realize there were gonna be so many. I would've done my ear, but thank you so much for coming, Gilda. Okay, so Sammy's gonna start off the Cordero with, uh, Jochanelle. Um, yeah, me. [00:05:00] Also, for those of you, I'm going to introduce her as Antia. For those of you who don't know, um, our name for Jochanelle back in our days, because we're the younger generation, we're the last of the, the Roti Queens back on Marion Square. Those of you who know, know. Um, those who don't know, please go take a visit. It was a tourist, it was a tourist attraction. And the lady still stands on the corner painting. [00:05:30] She does, she does. Um, but my question is in regards to, obviously, we, we'll get to your whole journey in general, Aunty, but it's just more along the lines of where did you grow up, um, and talk about your journey and your upbringing. Okay, so I, I, I hail from, I'm a child of the mist, um, in Whakatane in Bay of Plenty, um, I come from a very weak family, and my brother, my father had, [00:06:00] um, I think there was Would have been 18 brothers and sisters if them, two of them lived, but 16 lived. Um, we were all to this day, very close. It's huge. I've got, um, I'm the second eldest of nine siblings of my own. Um, we grew up very pōhara, which means, you know, we were, like today, the struggle was real, for a lot of families out there. But, um, my [00:06:30] father was a black power president. Um, I was born in 1972. Um, that's when I saw the, saw the light. And then, um, what else can I say? Oh, so we've been very surrounded. I grew up surrounded by my grandparents on both sides. So, but Can't imagine being born, whakawahine, not knowing it then, so, um, you know, I was [00:07:00] spoilt by all the aunties. And I know a lot of the sisters will agree that a lot of the aunties will, you know, gravitate towards us little sissy, sissy girls back in the day. And, um, but here's the ironic thing. My grandmother, my father's mother, who was matakite, was very spiritual. She, she to my mother. When I was, she was carrying with me, and you're going to have a girl. And when I came out, my father goes, Mom, you were wrong. And she said to him, No, you're still going [00:07:30] to have a girl. She's going to be a girl. Well, you know, I was born, so I got told this later on in life. And, um, I suppose it would have been quite confronting. My father seeing this little child, his oldest at that. He ended up having, you know, seven more children. I don't know. But his oldest, to be, being a boy, born a boy, I was never a man, I was always just a boy. And then, um, to becoming effeminate. And so, [00:08:00] um, during my traumatic years, as I put it, I've dealt with it, trust and believe. I know who I am now. And, um, But he used to try and beat it out of me. Um, and I think that's a similar story for a lot of our whakawaihine trans community. Um, difference is a scary thing for people to face in society. And um, I think I come to reconcile that later on in my life with my father. And I gave it back to him. I gave all the trauma back to [00:08:30] him, not physically, even though I could have. I could have. No, I told him to take it with him to his grave because I didn't need to carry it anymore. So, and then, but I was loved by my grandfather and my grandmothers on both sides. But it was closer to my father's sides because my, um, I was brought up with them. And I was very spoiled by them, apparently. All my aunties and uncles tell me, Oh, you couldn't fuckin do anything [00:09:00] wrong. And then that, and I have a love for cooking. So, there's a story. I was two years old, I think, yeah, two years old, sitting on the floor, and my grandmother used to make, uh, praua kraua, which is the cartwheel bread. And, well, there was thirteen of them, us, eating every night. So she had to make two a day. So my grandmother passed away when she was fifty four. She had that many kids, so she'd be depressed. You know, shitting out kids all your life. [00:09:30] And she died of cervical cancer. And she died of cervical cancer. You know, so understandable, you know. And, um, she would bake every day, and I hate watery mince stew because of that trauma. Because it used to have to feed us, you know, I thought Charlie and the Chocolate Factory had it bad. But, yeah, so she taught me, that's a memory that I have of her throwing the dough on the floor and I would knead it. So that's probably where my love of cooking started.[00:10:00] Um, so, moving forward to primary schooling. Bye. Was very, um, well I was loved by all the teachers too, the lady teachers. But I was, you know, um, just because I was a very flamboyant, I was very, um, I don't know whether I knew. Who I was then. I actually truly, trust and believe, this is an honest word of God, who apparently exists. Anyway, that's another topic. [00:10:30] Um, until I see his face, sorry. Um, I, I truly believed I was a woman. I was a girl. It wasn't until I, um, had hemorrhoids. And I went to the toilet and I was staying with my auntie then. And then I came out, I went screaming to her. At this time I think I was about eight or nine. And I says, I think I just got my period. Truly, truly, true story. [00:11:00] And she goes, oh you fucking idiot, she can't get your period, you're a boy. And I was, I was devastated. Truly, I was devastated. And she made my cousin drop his pad to show me. We had the same, I was broken. I was an elongated clit. So, that was part of that journey. But I was very, very sad. Spoiled by all of my aunties, and even my grandfather, my father's father, he used to call me Susan. Oh, where's Susan? You know, [00:11:30] that was, uh, to get cheeky, it was either a poof door. Susie, Susie Wong was back in the day, Susie Girl. And then he always goes, where's Susan gone? And I wasn't allowed to mow the lawns, and yet I like mowing lawns. I know how butch. I know you guys are so butch. But, because you know, you couldn't make it look stunning. You couldn't make anything look stunning. And so I says, Coral, I'd like to mow the lawns. And he goes, Oh, you'd just peel the potatoes. And so she's ended up doing that for the [00:12:00] marae. So yes, and then, um, I became, I went to intermediate. I'm sort of trying to, you know, Skip some parts so we get to the juicy bits, like those men used to say. Anyway, um, I was at Intermedia, and I entered a, um, essay competition. Now, it's a big thing these days, but I won the English section form one, which is now year [00:12:30] seven? Year seven? Um, Marimu BC essay competition. That's how bullied she was. She was going to do an essay competition at lunchtime. Because you got, yeah, I got tortured by the boys and some other girls. And then I just thought, why is that man? Yeah. That's, you know, flamboyant little tight curls. And I got a $50 check and a Jade Country book, and that was my prize. Now you go to Parliament and you go up and get it off [00:13:00] the, as an archbishop, I don't know, whatever they are up there. Yeah. Well, don't get me started on this government. So anyway, so I got there and so my grandfather went and bought me a encyclopedia set and a um, atlas of the world. And he reckons to my, um, um, aunties and that, he's gonna be a professor. Well, he got the pro right. He just didn't get the [00:13:30] stitute. But hey, I've still got a few years left in me. I still might make his dream come true. So I still have that encyclopedia set because that was my go to was reading. I was a nerd. I was a nerd to find out things. But I think I will suit you. At that age, I was 11 at this time, was, um, because I knew from the age of 9 that I liked boys. Um, because I used to crush on boys, okay? But I knew from the age of [00:14:00] 11 that I wanted to be a female. And how I knew that, I saw, I don't know if any of you saw, The younger generation won't, but maybe not, Donahue talk show. Yeah, so, there was this trans lady on there, Caroline Cossey. So she was one of the bomb girls for one of Sean Connery's movies. And she was stunning. She was beautiful. And when I, when he was, she was on his show and she was coming out [00:14:30] like she was a transsexual. There was a light bulb moment for me that I would like to see. I wanted to be a female. So that was okay, so she still lived androgynously. And, um, we moved back to Wellington. So in the meantime, up until the age of 11, we had been going between Wellington and Whakatane. Um, my sisters, um, We're brought up with, and my brother, we're brought up with my mother's parents, my grandparents on that side. And I was, [00:15:00] that was only four of us then, okay? And then my mother left my father when he was, uh, uh, eleven, and she had to strategically do that because she was an abused, um, mother and wife. And so she, um, got, got out of that relationship, and he come looking for us to kill us. And actually, I will remember, we were right ahead, his sister's place. So she took off with his V8 because, you know, all these gang members have to have V8s. And um, he had [00:15:30] the nicest one in Whakatane at the time. And my um, his sister's husband helped us, and my auntie, helped us to escape it. Because he beat her up on the way to work. And then I saw that, and she came back at lunchtime, and we were with our grandfather. And she came in with shades on, and she had a black eye. But see, my sisters, because they grew up on my grandfather and grandmother on my mother's side, they didn't see a lot of the abuse my mother saw. So I used to jump in [00:16:00] for my mother to stop her from getting beaten so that he would just beat me so that she would stop. Um, getting hurt. And then, uh, we got out of there. Because, I mean, he used to beat me up because I've, well, I lived for Wonder Woman. You know, she had her gold cufflinks and, uh, the lasso and the blue shorts and the red singlet and she's spinning around and he's spinning me into the wardrobe. Literally. And he threw me in the wardrobe because I was thinking our mates were [00:16:30] coming over. He can't have his little Wonder Woman, um, child running around. You know, he's supposed to be your oldest boy. I didn't have a patch on then. And so, yeah, so he would put me in the wardrobe and lock me up until my mother got home, so. Yes, it was very traumatic, but I've like, like I said, I've dealt with it and I can speak freely about it. Um, so when we moved away, we came down and that night that we were in , it was one o'clock in the morning. 'cause my auntie and my mother were [00:17:00] talking about it and they were saying about fucking time, you know, he's blah, blah, blah. And then we, one o'clock we heard this car puller, my mother grabbed my, me and my sister and covered our mouths in the wardrobe. And all we heard was the door, bang, bang, bang, and he had a sawn off shotgun, and he goes to my, his sister, because she goes, What the fuck in hell is wrong with you? What are you doing? And he goes, That's Charmaine Cum. This is my mother's name. And then they, she goes, What's fucking going on, you fucking idiot? No, they're not here. Well, luckily, they [00:17:30] had parked the car right around the back of the milk factory that my uncle ran. And he just got in the car and zoomed off, looking at us in Wellington. And headed down to Wellington because her sisters lived here. And they were a lesbian couple, my auntie and her partner. So we ended up coming down here and living with them. And I ended up going to Nainai College and, um, Intermediate. Sorry, Nainai Intermediate. And that's when I, um, first had my first, um, [00:18:00] Telling Quest and the song that I sang was Anne Murray's You Needed Me. You know, so, and I lived, because whenever I used to get hirings, you know, the number one songs. Were like Lulu back in the day and then I would go and sing them on the bench because we grew up across from the bench. Um, oh, the heads it's called. And then I'd sing the number one songs, but all female songs. And that's how I fell in love with Aunty Whitney. May she rest in peace. She's a diva. [00:18:30] She was a diva for me. She taught me how to sing actually. Um, and then I went into my first talent non intermediate. And I remember afterwards. Some of the guys in my class, you know, the boys, um, their mothers come up, Oh, what's her name? They thought I was a girl cause I was, you know, you needed me. High pitch. And they go, that's not a girl mum, that's a boy. You know? And she goes, Oh my God, you're so beautiful. I says, Oh, I was [00:19:00] living for it. Thank you. I was living for that acknowledgement. Yes, I do. But then I went to college. I went to, um, Nine Eye College, and I started to um, you know, puberty hit, and so I had a, Nine Eye College for me was a very traumatic experience because, you know, I get it now that I've gotten older and I look back, the society and the young people back then were just [00:19:30] bullies, anything different. And there was these three significant males. Um, that used to always bully me, and um, they sexually abused me in the gym one time. And I let, you know, um, I wish I could meet this one guy because he came in and actually saved me. And I thought he was hot. And I, you know, he was stunning. But he, he knew what had happened, but he couldn't because they were on the same team of basketball. So it [00:20:00] was all hush hush back then, you know, you couldn't dare say anything like that. It was all hush hush. So, you know, so she bottled that up and then she moved on and then I hung out with, um, what they would call the little hood rats these days, eh? Um, the mischiefs in the class, you know, the rangatahi, they don't understand really. What, um, the teacher's talking about. So we used to wag, go smoke dope on the field. Um, we sometimes used to go to my friend's place. And, you know, I'm [00:20:30] pretty sure some of you's might have done this. Swap the whiskey out for tea. Or, you know, and fill it back up. Yeah, we used to do that. And this was at 13. I was 13 then. And I went back to, we went to class one time. And I remember the teacher's name. Her name was Mrs. Christensen. I actually wish I could go back. and apologize to her, but in the interim when we were, because I was up front, because I was quite scholastic, so I was up front with all the [00:21:00] ones that were there wanting to learn and absorb the knowledge she was sharing. And this is in a classroom of what, 30 something children, no teacher aids back then, you know, and um, she was focusing on us and my friends, that didn't understand they were at the back playing up and I said you shouldn't worry about us you should go worry about them they can't understand you and then she says I think it was confronting for her because I had pulled her you know pointed it around and she's looked at [00:21:30] me and she goes well you need to go and make sure whether you're a boy or girl yeah and that I went to fight or flight in that moment because it was fact she was speaking realistically fact So I, I went to fight and I got up and smacked her in the face. And I never went back to school after that. I went and took off and I would work. Because we actually lived in Wellington now. My mother got us a place in Wellington. She was a barmaid. So she was [00:22:00] living her best life. Um, partying, you know, um, because she was free from an abusive husband. So, I was this 13 year old that was left home, you know, she was at the pub. They should bring parties home. And the Ministry of Air, because I'd have to wear a uniform, but I'd put mufti clothes in my bag, catch a bus from Newtown to the railway station, get off, get changed into my mufti clothes, and go stealing. Yeah, go stealing, because it was, you know, the buzz, I suppose, I don't know. [00:22:30] But ironically, I have to share this, my coordinator today, the record shop that I used to go and print, uh, I stole from, and it was a, um, Prince Purple Rain t shirt, he's, um, owner, he was the owner of that shop, and he's now my coordinator today, so we've, he, he knows a bit about the Evergreen Trust in Berlin. And then, um, so, that was okay, and I never went back to school, the ministry came to my, um, school. Mother's house, [00:23:00] the address, and the guy stands there and he goes, I'm looking for my butch name. I said, Oh, that's me. You know, and then he goes, Oh, okay. Oh, I thought, okay. And he made my day. Cause he goes, I thought you were a girl. I says, I'm going to be. And so that was okay. And then he said, Oh, well, okay. So we can give you leave. Cause you know, you can't leave before you're 15 back then. So, he says, we'll give you an exemption if you can get a job. [00:23:30] So I told my mother, I ended up telling my mother, they ended up getting a hold of her anyway. And she got me a job in the 1860, which is a pub on Lincoln Quay back in the day. And it was the shit bar she used to work in. I was a kitchen hand in the restaurant. So, if anyone knows the 1860, it was Are going off pub and well, the eighties just rocked. I'm just, yeah, the eighties rocked. I'm sorry. All this generation today it was fabulous. Library and Thursday, Friday, Saturdays, you know, and for young [00:24:00] person turning 14 this time, washing dishes and going, being able to stay and wait for my mother till she finished work. You know, you'll see in real life, you know. And my cousin ended up coming to live with us and she got a job as a waitress. And, um, she ended up with one of the band members. And I ended up on the ships with her. Because he took us onto the ships. And it was a, uh, English ship. And a cargo ship. And they have a barn. Is my batteries going flat? Like, yes. [00:24:30] I don't know. I don't know yet. Um, you know, they have an open bar and everything. Well, that was another eye opener to, you know, the sex world, because they had ship moles on there. Well, they were female prostitutes. For the men, you know, the sailors. Well, I was getting hit on, but I hadn't transitioned. And these guys were going, oh, you know, but I couldn't outright because I was too scared if I sued. I wasn't a girl, they beat me up anyway. So I just had [00:25:00] to play, I was so pretty stupid, all the time I was living for it. If only I could, you know, you know, that was that journey. And then, um, so my mother, because I wasn't going back to school, she knew I had a passion for cooking. And so she, her and her partner then, got a, um, they had a cleaning business. So she ended up getting in the cleaning business. And at, I think I was [00:25:30] 14, going on 15, I became a street kid. And a lot of the, um, street kids Aye. Is that 86? About. OK. Yeah, about 86, yeah, about 86, 87. And, um, in Wellington, I met a lot of the street kids who, one of my soul sisters, um, she lives in Hastings, um We are meet here and we've become lifelong friends from that journey and Adam knows [00:26:00] here as well and a very close friend of ours, but um, and I've seen a lot of Like, you know, glue sniffing, you know, we used to go and hustle down at the railway station with our bags, because the people would be scared, and we'd have shifts, no, no shifts, we were quite um, what would you call it? I thought it was quite street smart, really. You'd have shifts, you know, one group would go and, Oh, have you got a dollar? Have you got a dollar? By the end of our shift, we'd have enough for a box of glue and a big feed of [00:26:30] fish and chips. Yeah. And then And then, the afternoon peak hour shift, the next shift would go. And that was a bit for about a year. And then I did see, um, I didn't actually come across any trans then, the sisters on the street. It was because we were on top of buildings. Honestly, we'd climb up to the top of the buildings and, or into, um, uh, squatting in empty homes. You know, and just getting stained. I'd sing to them all, when I was [00:27:00] big and glued off my face. I'd just sing to everybody. And um, I snapped out of that, I did try to go home and sit my school seat, but then that was another traumatic experience going back to Whakatane to sit my school seat because, not that I didn't do the work, it's because my mother forgot to pay the fees, so I couldn't sit it at the end, so that was it, I gave up on anything educational, and then I came back and She got me, [00:27:30] um, she had a cleaning business, so we were working for her. Well, I call it exploited. Yeah, she exploited her children because we had to go and work for nothing. But in saying that, they had paid my board. And then she ended up getting a cafe in Newtown. She was looking at buying it so I could run a cafe. But I'm in the midst of trying to find myself, eh? So, I was still at the 1860, went back there to [00:28:00] do catering, and one of the friends there, a waitress, you know, um, very good friend of mine to this day, I ended up helping bring up her children, and they live in Paraparaumi now, and, um, I lived with them, she was, I was still there, you know, 15 at the time, and I helped bring up her three year old at the time, because she had lost two of her kids in a fire, so she had to, she was pregnant, And her husband worked at, um, road user charges. And so, [00:28:30] I went to be a live in nanny as such. And so, their daughter's got green eyes and she's white haired. And here's me, this little pango Maori kid. You know, because realistically, that's, you know, 15 back then. Full time nanny. And looking after kids was a common thing in our era. You know, I was 11 years old, I used to look after my cousins, and then we'd be ordering a tamariki right now, you know. And I used to get on the train with her anyway, and people would stare like I'd stolen this [00:29:00] child because she was white and with green eyes. And, well, come on, let's go and see mummy. And if she was crying, then I'd really get the stares, you know. But I grew up helping bring up their kids. And to this day, I've got a beautiful relationship with them, and they've been so supportive of my journey. They've always been there, non judgmental. But how I, um, come out to my mother, and because of all this time, I hadn't come out to my mother or any of my family, um, they all just [00:29:30] used to call me a little pofter, you know, and so my mother brought a party home, and there was this gorgeous Samoan guy named Yes, he was delicious. And I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't allowed in the parties because I was so young. So she's, I used to stay in the room, but I'll, you know, manipulate it. I'll put on a pink sweatshirt and go out. I'm just getting me a coke. And just go in the, in the party room. Mincing it, mincing it through the crowd. And she goes, what are you doing in here? I'm [00:30:00] just getting me a coke. Then I mince back out. And then this guy, he followed me out. And he grabbed my hand and he goes, where you going? It's like out of a drama, you know? True story. And he goes, where you going? Oh no, I'm not allowed in the ante, yo. And he pulled me into the toilet while the fuck it was all on. Well, her, her, her boarder, her lady, that boarder, she wanted it, eh? Well, she minced into the fucking bathroom and seen us getting it [00:30:30] on, and she went screaming out like a fucking destitute prostitute, screaming out fucking, no, come in, come in! And my defence, poor thing, my defence was, he made me. You know, because I hadn't come out that I was, you know, like men. And, um, so her partner closes down the party dramatically and I got put into my mother's room. She comes in while everyone's leaving, because there was about 15 of them. And then, um, she goes, [00:31:00] what are you going to do? And I said, what do you mean? And she goes, I know he didn't make you. This is my mother. I know he didn't make you. So what do you want to do? And I said, I want to be a woman. That's And she goes to me, and I'll never forget it, she goes, I will always support whatever you want to be, but I don't know how to help you. And there was probably a lot of, true story for a lot of whānau out there with um, Rangatahi back then in the 80s. They wanted to do a transition, so I went looking. And [00:31:30] at first I thought I was gay because, you know, Alfies was going on. Carmen had created Alfies. So I went and thought, OK, I must be gay. So I went to the gay nightclub, which was Alfies. When I got up there, and yes, trust and believe there were some gorgeous specimens, but they just didn't do it for me. You know, because they were too proper. And they were too beautiful, and I was, and then I couldn't, I don't want a butch, you know, I want a man, you know, I [00:32:00] wanted a heterosexual male. And so I just would go up there Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and I'd stay up there and just, and I'd get held on by lesbians because I was dressed androgynously, you know, the hammers, MC Hammer pants and the creepers, and the long trench coat. And, um, I had my hair, I looked like the girl of Chimes, if anybody knows that group. My hair was, you know, my hair was that colour. you coming up to the part where You're telling us how you [00:32:30] discovered the evergreen? Yes. Okay, thank you. Is that your prompt? I told her in the green room I would be able to talk for an hour. Now she's trying to cut the bitch off. I need to add a few things in there too. No, yeah, so I'm leading here. I'm leading him. So anyway, the alpha is okay. I've got the, uh, strategic. And I [00:33:00] see, so, because back then there were no queens on the scene. Um, that I knew of, drag queens, that is. Performing queens, the performers were the street girls. The prostitutes. And those were like Chanel and Renee and all them. So, um, Renee was one of the sisters that was the first stripper. Trans stripper in Wellington. And she was brilliant at it too. Cajun Moon, by Sissy Houston. Cajun Moon. Yeah, so anyway. [00:33:30] At Alfies, I seen these two queens come in. And it was, that was the light bulb moment. Cause they looked like these Texan bucks and beauties. You know, pop hoods, mini skirts. Stunning figures and that was Siobhan and Lilo that came in and I saw I said, oh my god, you know It was it was like those new young queens. Oh my god, I want to be like her So I strategically would see where they'd sit and I would place myself and I was sitting there one night It was [00:34:00] Thursday night and they come in And then they, I was sitting there and they go, Girl, and I says, yes? I says, are you by yourself? And I says, yeah. And they go, come over here. And then one of them, she turns to me and she goes, Are you a, are you a, Are you a, I wanna be. Yeah. And then the other one went, I thought you was a finish. And, um, a fish is a girl. Yeah. And then, I thought that was fabulous. And they said, come with us. And that's when we headed off to the [00:34:30] Evergreen. Yeah. And that was my first experience of the Marian Strait. And then they took me into the Evergreen, and that's when I met my street mother, Chanel. A lot of whanau here, she's very well respected in the sisterhood community of the Evergreen. And she became my street mother. And she, I would sit with her every night outside the Evergrande just on the corner by the Blue Note, where the Blue Note was. We'd sit on those park benches, we'd tell, [00:35:00] there's a lot of stories that went on in those park benches. And I used to sing to her and she fell in love with my voice. And because of Whitney, so I'd be singing to all the boys. And um, I stuck it out. I didn't crack it for probably two months later. I would just go down Thursday, Friday, Saturdays and meet Chanel at the end of the year. And then I'd go over and start again closer to her and then meeting the other girls and through her. And because she had so much respect, I was quite lucky, because the sisters [00:35:30] left me alone. Yeah, but I think also because of my personality, I wasn't one of these intrusive queens that would, you know, Because some of those bloody bitches were torturers. They were. They would stand over the younger queens. And, you know, and fucking torture them. And it was sad because we were already going through struggles in society then. You know, so it was causing a lot of division. And one thing that really gutted me was seeing the segregation. on the streets. So the Samoan queens, [00:36:00] and especially in Auckland, but down even in Wellington, the Samoan sisters were down one end and they'd only stay down that end. They would never come into the evergreen. They'd only come out and crack it. But you never fucked with the Samoan girl. There was a respect that they had for the Māori queens too. And I was lucky enough to be one of the only Māori queens that got invited to the SEVAs with them. You know. Well, later on in life I found out I was part Samoan. I was 37. So that's where that connection comes from. [00:36:30] And I used to get mistaken when I was younger too. I says, no, Kori, Maori. Maori all the time. Yeah, you are. Part Samoan. Found out my mother's biological father was Samoan. So I've just recently come back from the, uh, doing a pilgrimage over to his village. Um, he's still alive. He's 94, but we didn't get to meet him. 'cause we don't, we did, knew his village. We did only knew the village. So at least we got to go there. I mean, that's still a journey that can happen. [00:37:00] But anyway, um, the evergreen, sorry. I met Chrissy, I had met Chrissy with Chanel, and all these older queens, and oh my god, they were so, just, regal. Like Ella Gypsy, Dion, um, well, Diana came in after when she moved back from Australia. But just the glamour, I mean, Miss Diana, Lady Diana. She was Mrs. Chancellor, if you know Young and the Wrestlers. She was Mrs. Chancellor to [00:37:30] me. She was porcelain skin, but she had a Maori heart. She had a huge Maori heart for our people. And she just didn't judge anybody, you know, even if you were a young queen. Because, oh, there was some, I named them Jurassic Park. I did. Because when they were, if you knew the evergreen, there was the window in the front. And some nights those queens would come out together. And they would, and I get it why they would sit there and, you know, look down on you. Because they were up on, you'd step up into this booth. And they would all [00:38:00] be there. And I just, I went up and I says, Oh my God, hi Ella. So I knew Ella from Housie, because I come from Housie, I don't still am. And um, So So I say, hi sister. And she goes, hi girl. And then she goes, I says, hi, Stasha. So Stasha, she's the reason why I called them Jurassic. Cause she had these long nails and she would, but they were her own. And she goes, kill the girl. I said, Oh, and then I said, Oh, it's like a Jurassic old cunt. [00:38:30] And the other ladies, like there was Ruby, um, Regan Carroll. Um, This is going back to Carmen's era. They're from Carmen's, the originators, you know. And, um, they all cracked up at Stasha. Well, Stasha and I become good friends. She was a hairdresser. And, um, she, and I then, well, they knew my Uncle Robert. So my Uncle Robert's a gay, uh, tiny, but he used to dress in drag back in the 70s. And [00:39:00] Gypsy, who transitioned back to being a man, living in a lesbian relationship, um, used to flat with my uncle. So Ella took me over to his place, they have drinks every Friday. So that was like for a young queen, so it's like Saviiey, you know, being the younger generation, being invited up to one of the older queens. Places for party and all the other young ones weren't allowed. That's what that was like for me. And just sitting there in awe of just listening [00:39:30] to their stories and just having the, like the banter that they heard, I mean, we had our own, but it was more, um, facetious, whereas theirs was just that, you know, sister, they could laugh it off and 'cause I remember my auntie telling me they used to make eyelashes out of car cartridge paper and bake it. And it'll kill, with their scissor. And I said that to Jitsi, and she goes, I said, oh, my uncle said that you used to make your eyelashes with the cartridge paper, and bake it, and cure it, and the [00:40:00] other queens laughed at you. And she goes, that was back in our day, girl. And that's how they taught, because, and I get it, you know, I so get why they, because they went through the struggle. They went through, like, I had got to and when I did my social work degree, I got to interview Donna 'cause we had to interview a different culture. Now my tutor said to me, I don't know if you can do, um, do this because it's not a different culture says generationally it is because I had never, [00:40:30] um, they're the shoulders that she's a soldier I stand on. She's the reason why I'm able to come and study in this country. And so I got to interview Dana and I still haven't found the USB with it 'cause it's priceless. And what she shared of what they had to go through, she, she had to manipulate her way to get out. Because back then, if you were seen as mentally unwell, um, you were locked in an institution. And she knew [00:41:00] that until the age of 21, your parents had guardianship over you. So they could, if they thought that, even if you had your own business and they thought you were mentally ill, they could still send you off to Lake Alice and stuff. And so she got out of Hastings, was where she from, and she went up to Auckland and the Maori queens looked after her there. So, and she shared, honestly, it's such valuable and she's the reason and, and, um, Chanel and the main lived experience, but when she shared what they had to [00:41:30] go through in the sixties and seventies. I'm in awe of what they paid for me to be able to study and to be able to be here today. And that's when I got it, why they all used to, you know, expect that respect because of what they went through. They, she shared that they would just walk down Langdon King and people would throw their rubbish at them. You know, if they looked like, you know, dressed up as women. And in Auckland she [00:42:00] said that you were allowed to dress as a woman. As long as it was on clothes, um, over men's clothes. And so, you know, when I talk about the shoulders I stand on, those giants, they're giants in my eyes. Um, in New Zealand anyway, in Aotearoa, and what Carmen did, you know, standing on the steps of Parliament, and then Georgina, going to become the first MP transsexual in the world. You know, we've had a lot of firsts in this country for our community. And, um, they [00:42:30] helped pave the way. Um, and I did my little bit with the young queens when we used to have a flat in Coromandel Street. Um, I used to take all the young Auckland queens because they'd come down. And you're talking 13, 14 year olds cracking it on the ruri. And they'd go and sell themselves to pay for their motel room. And I said, I'll come over home. But there was not to be any cracking out there. And I'd give them a feed. And it stayed for, you know, a month or so. But [00:43:00] imagine the getting ready. And one time we had 13 of us. Imagine getting ready, darlings. It was fabulous. You know, and it was cast wine. I said, pour that into a bottle at least. You know, those boxes of wine. You know, well we had them all lined up. Country wine. And then, and then we'd go out and crack it. And all the sisters would go and crack it. And we'd go partying. It was great. And that's one of the biggest regrets I have about, um, my life, is that I would have probably owned three houses [00:43:30] if I had have saved it. But, um, however, I'm so happy for the journey in the Evergreen. That was a safe haven. I suppose it would be like a pad. You know, what these gang members call a perd, like what parliament is for the government. Because, you know, let's be real, they're the biggest gang, you know, they're the legal gang in this country. They're both blue and red. And whoever's prime minister's the [00:44:00] president. And as far as I'm concerned, the police are their prospects. They do exactly what these gang members do, but just legally, apparently. They corrupt us. I'll, I'll talk about corruption, the police, some of my experiences with them. So I share this one, um, I was in Lower Hutt and I had to go, I got arrested, but it wasn't for prostitution, it was for theft, but um, cause you know, along with this prostitute's life and the, that's why Evergreen was a safe haven [00:44:30] for us because when there was dramas on the Ruri, we had a place to run into and be okay to be. Whereas if you went into some nightclubs, you know, you could get kicked out if they knew you were queens. And it happened. Um, like, one of the sisters for using a female toilet got thrown down the stairs at chicks back in the day because she was trans. I was lucky because I was passable. They didn't realize until you go in with a group, or a group of sisters, and then they realize, oh, you're one of [00:45:00] them too. So, I had a partner, um, he was a South African Dutch man, I met him in a cafe in Cuba Cuba, it's called, back in the day, um, and we hooked up, and he goes, does this make me gay? And he said, you're sexual. And I said, well, did you pick up a man? And he goes, no. Well, there's your answer. And then, but we ended up in a relationship for four years and moved to Whanganui. But, um, who was it going [00:45:30] with this? Um. Oh, he, he was, sorry? Oh, the police. So, yes. So, that's right. We had been at a party. And it will heat. He couldn't handle this per se, and he'd blob. Well, I went out with the girls, and we ended up going to the bottle store, and I got caught stealing this bottle of whisky. Anyway, I had to go to court in Lower Hutt. But, when they took me down to the South, this prick, because they found a foil, a tinny of [00:46:00] dope in my bag, and he goes, Mmm, this is Afghani. He knew that, you know, this was a cop while he was processing, man. I said, of course you know what it is. I think I might go and smoke it with my mates. Well, anyway, he had me strip searched. And he got his mates to come and watch. Yeah, and that's when I said, well, we had lawyer friends, so Greg King Gregory King. He was very supportive of the sisters. And there was a few lawyers actually, and judges, trust and believe, but [00:46:30] anyway, that's a different story. Um, he, they'd come and get us out of the cells. But I told him what happened. Um, David was his name, this other lawyer. And he went and had it themed that that's when females had to count doctors. Um, if they wanted a strip search trans, that doctors have to now go in. Um, cause that was one of the most humiliating experiences. And what was sad, there was two Polynesian, I don't know whether they were Maori or, Um, Samoan, but they [00:47:00] came in, and then they turned around and walked out. And I only hoped and wished that they had taken me at that time, but they left, well they were the minority in there as well. So anyway, but I mean, going back to the evergreen, you know, I've seen a lot of sisters come and go, very close sisters of mine, through, unfortunately, what came along with the same, and it was a choice. It wasn't because you had to, it was a choice you chose to do. And it was to fit in with the clique. [00:47:30] The sisterhood was the drugs and the addictions that came along with it. That's why I don't own three homes. You know. Um, but I got off that and if you make the choice to remove yourself from it as well. But it never took away the, the bonds that were made. And the relationships and the sisterhood. And that's why when Saviiey, I remember I was out drinking, well I come off the scene then. And Saviiey and the young sisters that are here. You They travelled down from Hastings, by the way, to [00:48:00] come to this, my darlings. Um, they're the generation after me, and they're the ending of the evergreen legacy that these, these ones are serving in them. And, um, that's when it was sisterhood. You know, we had each other's backs. I mean, there were two days of the year I hated. Or two weeks was one of them, but one day was Guy Fawkes and the school holidays. Can you imagine it? So yeah, those little shitters going around in their fucking parents cars abusing us [00:48:30] And then shooting their fire rockets, but we'd have bottles and rocks Stacked up in the doorway. Yeah, come on bitches. And I mean a lot of gangs tried to stand over the girls and kick, you know, make us, pimp us. You know, fuck off. You know, we're doing all the work. And they did. They tried to. They tried to take over the evergreen and Chrissy, whatever, none of that. And there was the Nutcrackers, that was the Hole in the Wall, if you've been on Boomerang. Hole in the Wall was, uh, Chrissy's as well, that was [00:49:00] called the Nutcracker. And that was a cool, cool bar as well. But the Evergreen was where, um, a lot of heteros, I mean, when they filmed Lord of the Rings, what's his name, Frodo? You know, or what I'll share with my sister, one of the girls, Stephanie, she goes, We walked in and she was wasted. We were all wasted. And he's sitting in the corner and Elijah Wood was sitting in the corner in the front of the booth. And she goes, Oh my God! You're that guy from Free Willy. [00:49:30] I fucking know he's not you, eh? But he was, like, his lips dropped at some of the girls at Mint Sink as well, looking like hookers, eh? So, you know, he was looking up and down, and I'm like, good piff. But, but all the, there's a lot of celebrities out there. Yes, but, you know, we didn't sign a non disclosure form. But I won't go there, I won't go there, I'm not that nasty. But yes, they've been some delicious, um, [00:50:00] And so I say to my nephews, when you watch the rugby games, you know, oh, you all get off on watching a bunch of men running around chasing one ball, putting their legs, hands between each other's legs. You know, I'll play the hooker. You know. But, yeah, but, you know, the, the story and the legacy of the evergreen for men is what's lost in today's society is the sisterhood. No matter where you were from, and you came down on the [00:50:30] scene, and the evergreen, when the evergreen was going, you were always welcomed. It was like a marae for queens. So, you know, and now it's a marae in the sky. And it was fabulous, it was a fabulous journey, and people go, oh, do you wish, because when Georgina got into Parliament, she did that mahi for decriminalising prostitution, it actually ruined it for us. Because they didn't fucking worry about it, and then they could start negotiating the cancer. But no, [00:51:00] you know, but it was a good thing. I felt that you could have, they could have done more for education back then. Because as you all know, we know we want to be who we want to be. We've got an idea when we hit puberty. So it's, you know, the generation today, I've got a lot of opportunities handed to them and I'm so happy for them. But I struggle. I'm going to be real. I'm struggling with the whole non binary and that. I've got to educate myself. [00:51:30] That's all there is to it. I don't disrespect the fact that they want to look like that, you know. But the trans sisters that I've met of today's generation, I want to slap them upside the head. Because they're entitled little shitters, some of them. They honestly expect you to bow down bitches Transcribed You don't even know historically where you come from. And I went to a workshop that my sister runs a rangatahi course up in Gisborne. [00:52:00] And she's got a rainbow youth group there. And she asked me to come up and do a workshop. And I went, but the facilitator, lovely young trans girl, I just heard her when I walked in and she was going, You don't need to worry about the past. Well, that was a trigger for me. Oh, yes, you do. Yes, you do. Pump your brakes, sister. Sit down. Yeah, and it's not about them, um, just to have some [00:52:30] knowledge of it. They don't have to accept it, but understand the struggle was real. For why they can wear their dresses and you score uniforms at school nowadays. Why? They can go and, you know, put these other, and there's, you know, on a form where you fill out your name. It's not just male or female. Now it's all 'cause of those struggles of our AKA tapi and our whanau out there is whose shoulders I do stand on.[00:53:00] Can I just add on, um, just because. Um, the intergenerational knowledge, right? Um, and the importance that it plays. And you've acknowledged all of the giants that, um, you pretty much represent. But obviously, we pretty much sit here because of yous. Um, and that's the beauty of it, is that because we have a purpose put in, in our lives currently, and with the mahi that we [00:53:30] currently do, it's because of yous. Um, and you continue to do it. And which I am highly proud of. praise and obviously look up to you in that sense, um, being from Wellington and being from Pōneke in general, um, and also just bringing those, those knowledge on to those young ones. Um, and I think I had a discussion, um, to you around, um, what we currently do. We play this little mapping game with our rangatahi, um, in regards to guess who [00:54:00] the photo is. Um, and it's pretty much in the sense of them. pretty much of us helping identify who they know. Um, and it's putting people like Chrissy Witoko, Andrew Chenow on, um, all of these iconic people from Pōneke in the, in their midst. And they pretty much got confused. Um, and that helped identify that they have no sense of history at all. And mind [00:54:30] you, we, we have lack of history, but we knew Um, and that was thanks to, we may not have been present during the evergreen, um, but the evergreen legacy currently lived on outside of it, moved on to the Ruri. Um, and a funny fact of the matter is that if you knew Aunty or Mama Jo back in the day, um, you would hear her before you would even see her. Um, uh, my generation were [00:55:00] always scared. Um, And she'll walk down in all your clothes, oohs, oohs, oohs, oooohs And then we'll start missing and taking over! But truly, no I wasn't, Cos, oh that's another fact actually. We ended up on the News! So Marion Street back in the day had no apartments on it. And I used to be, there was myself, Mushroom, and then Mariah came along. Um, but me and Mushroom used to be both the eights, they [00:55:30] used to call us, but I wasn't even big then, I was slimmer. Uh, anyway, we'd sing, and we'd be singing 3 o'clock, 4 o'clock while we were waiting for cracks. And then, when they built the apartments, they complained. And I says, well, we were here before them. And so, they got the TV3 News came out and did an interview with us on Nightline, I think it was. And we did a, and there was myself and Mariah, and we're singing and then we're talking [00:56:00] about it. And I says like, you know, they're happy to come down and join us if they like. But we're not going to stop doing what we've done for the last, you know, since Carmen and them were here. And so that what got on to the news and then we actually had people coming up, Oh my God, you were on the news the other night. And there's Mariah going, Can I have a cigarette? Oh, shame. But talking about what Saviiey was saying, Well I got that nickname Mama Jo because we take the young queens in and there was [00:56:30] not to be any rolling. You know, because there was a big thing on the queen, you know, rolling the clients. Stealing off them. And the Auckland girls were the worst for it. I'm trying to trust and believe. Wellington were the ladies of the night. And um, Auckland were the crooks of the night. And Christchurch was the leftovers. Because you all had to go down there if you didn't cut it in. But no. No. They've got some beautiful sisters down in Christchurch. I lived for Christchurch when I went down there. [00:57:00] But um, And the, I remember this one night I was out with my brother and my gay, gay friend Peter Lucas and Saviiey and the girls were in the Blue Note and this torturous black hawa wahine, you know, thought just she was going with the feckin Please turn your phone off. No. Um, she could be torturous and stand over my gay friend. So who the fuck are you talking to? And then she goes, oh, what? And I just got up and smashed the ashtray in her face. [00:57:30] And then the bouncers, because of the relationships they had with the sisters, the bouncers took her away. And, you know, in a lot of cases in a lot of the clubs, the bouncers did actually support the girls, but there's, um, times when, uh, going back, I'll share this one quite quickly, when I was with my partner, he would take a one day, because he knew that I'd given up the streaks for him, so one day a month he would Save up and we'd go out and go and have [00:58:00] a lunch and he'd spoil me and then he goes, I know it's not much, but what you're used to making, but he's, you know, he'd give it for me to go and treat myself. So he came one time and we got on the piss at two o'clock in the afternoon on a Friday. The sisters were going to meet us down there. There was Stephanie and Elaine in them. There was about five of them coming in. And we were at the lab back then. But it wasn't the lab where that was. So we were in there all day and we met these two [00:58:30] guys from Christchurch who had come up for a concert. And we were drinking all day, getting pissed, and then the girls, I was in the toilet, and I just heard this turning, and I knew, oh god, the girls have arrived. Already, it's fucking, because they turned up at 7, it was about quarter past 7, I'm coming out of the toilet, and they go, Yes, I can, I can, I can, you know, they're turning on the manager. So the bar manager's sitting there with the barman, I felt sorry for him, because he didn't know where to look. And she says, um, no, we don't have to have yous [00:59:00] here. And she goes, we've just fucking arrived. And then she goes, well, we don't serve your kind. And I walked down, I said, excuse me? And she goes, um, no, we don't accept them here. I says, I've been here all day with my partner and my two friends. We've been drinking here all day. And she said, well, I didn't know you realized you were one of them, so you can leave too. And my partner's running around getting a piece of paper with people to sign their names and stuff for a petition. I'll shut up, Rosa, uh, Rosa Parks. You know, well, that was his first experience of [00:59:30] the discrimination we face. It was just normal for us. So we just, I'll move, the next pub, they will accept us. Okay. And he's running off to Decca to use their phone. I need to ring the Human Rights Commission. And that's when he found out that trans didn't have any rights yet. We had to go down as a gay, you know, and they only gave rights back then. And I says, well, I'm not gay. You're not gay. So if I can hurry up and let's go and get a drink. Because we were so used to it that it was just, you know, all off a duck's back. And so we just [01:00:00] moved on. But so this is what these young ones today need to. Sort of have some insight into that, as to how lucky they could probably go and be a police officer these days, you know? Uh, talking about moving on. I told you I could be a chatterbox, bitch. Most recently, you and Adam added, um, acting to your credits. Can you please [01:00:30] explain the boy, the queen, and everything in between? You play the role of Gigi. Yes. And you're in the role of Max. Well, I, um, I was at work. And so I'm part of the Whakawahine page that we have on Facebook. And Ramon, who, Te Wake, who directed and created the series, put up a casting call for the role of, well at the time it was Carmen and Gigi. And I read it, and then, I'd like, Vanessa Robinson, could you please stand up? [01:01:00] Because you're the reason why I became Judy. Please stand up Mr. Prime Minister Robertson. So this is my good, good friend. She's my good friend. She's a little soul sister of mine. So she, her and I were doing a um, sleepover shift um, with our young wahine that we support. And I read the, I says, girl, read this. And she goes, oh girl, that's you. And say, cause she's a drag queen. Uh, she's a queen in training. She's a, you know, a closet diva. And um, she goes, [01:01:30] that's you. And when I read it, literally, description was my life. What I lived. You know, she was a 50 to 60 year old trans woman who used to be a prostitute. And then, you know, And a performer was the only live singing performer, and I was, at the time, on my song, the only live singing transsexual that used to go and do shows at our um, Well, along with Adam and I used to do shows and I was singing live. But, [01:02:00] um, when I read it, the casting call had, the auditions had cut off on the 10th of March and it was like the 11th or 12th. she said, Vanessa says to me, still submit a video. You never know for something future. I've still got them on my phone actually. And, um, so she did the other part. She was reading of Max's role part. There were two scenes that they. Oh no, sorry. I sent a video of, I sent a [01:02:30] video describing why you would be a fit for Gigi. So it's blank. And then I says, But I understand that the cut offs happen so. And then they got back to me and said, We'd still like you to read. So they sent me two parts, um, scenes of the script, and Vanessa helped me at work, and we were practicing. Even the young girl that we supported would sit there and buzz on us. Um, and, and in one scene, I had to say, um, You know, you opened your club, or I, in the practice, the rehearsal, I go, Well, you know, you opened your club, and [01:03:00] you welcomed us in, and you opened your legs, and I go, Oh, shit! Well, it wasn't, it's basically, you opened your legs. I did a Chris Upkins. So yeah, they sent that off too. And then they called me back and said, we'd like to offer you the part of Che Che. And then I says, who's playing Max? And they go, do you know Adam Teha? I said, oh, Mr Lahua. And so it was ironic because, um, Adam and I had done shows before. [01:03:30] Yeah. And we've been up to Hastings and done shows together for our good friend. So it was ironic. Yes, the Hui Takatapu, we did a fundraiser. And um, yes, it was fabulous. And Rabina was there. It was quite a cast, really, eh? So, so, following on, thank you so much for that korero. That you're, you're, do you know, this is what I found with Jo, living with Jo for the six or seven weeks that we lived together. Listening to these stories, [01:04:00] that were so real, inspiring. That I could not, like, I can imagine smashing somebody with an ashtray. Come on guys. . I, I, I couldn't imagine, you know, if, if there was a big I'd be like, yeah, this is ya. Come on then let's go. You know, let's slide out. But Jo having the tenacity and the, the, the mana, you know, the strength to be able to stand up made me want to work harder in this role. So talking about our audition process. [01:04:30] Um, a friend of mine sent me the role of Gigi. And I loved everything about her. She was, um, non apologetic. She was very abrasive. She would hate you before she said hello. So you all fell into that category. She was very dismissive. She was very forthright in who she was as a woman. Everything I read about that character is everything that I'm a little bit timid with. So I thought this would be a great experience. So I actually auditioned. [01:05:00] And I was thinking, girl, I got this. I'm gonna be me, miss some Gigi. I'm gonna hate on y'all. I had finished doing my seat read, and we had to do it online because I couldn't make it to Auckland. And they were like, yeah, yeah, that was good. And I was like, yeah. Yeah, no. And I was like, oh yeah, thanks for that. Oh! [01:05:30] My life crumbled. Well, um, what was the other producer's name? The guy? Him. With the hat on. And so this other guy, he rang me back and he goes, why did you hang up so quick? And I was like, ah, because you don't, you don't want me, so, yeah, I'm gonna go and live my best life, thanks for that. Um, he said, no, no, no, we've got another role. And I was like, yeah, I don't want to. And he goes, it's a roll of Max. And I'm like, yeah. And we were going on tour, Tam de Cargill. So I left [01:06:00] and he rang the next day and he said, I've sent you an email. Can you read this? When you go on tour, especially for shows that we do, you normally get to your venue and you become everything about your client. You work for them. They have these lunches. They, they, the whole co papa is around why they brought you here, why they're paying you this money. So I was very conscious of that. So these phone calls were not part of that and I'm working with a troupe of girls going, Get off your phone. Get off your phone. Can you read [01:06:30] this? Ah, yeah. So I got my telephone. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Can you read it as a woman? Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Great. Next day he rang back, can you read this? And I was like, okay, this is getting really bad. Because I need to focus on what I'm doing, this is my work. If I don't work, I can't pay my rent. That's basically what it boiled down to. But I was getting into slap, that's what drag queens call getting into your makeup. So I was half made up. And he goes, can you read it, [01:07:00] as Amanda, this scene? So I read it. And then I said to him, you can't call me back anymore. And the next day he rang back and I was like, Oh my gosh, this boy is either dyslexic, or he's got some prophylactic relapse habit. Why are you ringing me? And I answered finally and he goes, Hello Max. What? And he goes, Hello Max, this is 10 o'clock in the morning. I didn't get off stage until 2. So as some people would know, when you're [01:07:30] working at night, you're really tired in the morning. And he goes, Hello Max. And I was like, Ahem, ahem. So, Booboo, I don't know who you've just rung, but it's Amanda. And he goes, no, no, no, um, hello, Max Taylor. And I was like, yeah, nah. Sorry, and he goes, do you understand what I'm saying? And I was like, yeah, you've rung the wrong person. What we're trying to say here is, you've got the role of Max. And I was like, ah, yay. So I was, I thought that it was a secondary lead, [01:08:00] and I was going to toe tiple this one. And at that time, I didn't know who Gigi was, but I hated her. I thought, whoever's got this role, pfft. She's stolen my part, and I hope she gets swollen ankles. Anyway, we finished our tour. I got the swollen ankles already. So anyway, we finished. I signed the contract. We had a script read through really quick. And we were going, um, finishing our tour, and we were in Tauranga. And we were weaving through this thing. Then my phone rang, and it was [01:08:30] Missy. So I'm picking up the phone and, Hi Max, and I was like, We just signed one of those NDBBs, what are they called? NDB. Eh? Not Disclosure Agreement. You're so clever, thank you my agent. So we had to sign one of these and you absolutely cannot talk about the project to anybody that's been in this industry. Um, so when she was saying, Hello Max, I was like, Girl! Why are you doing that? And she goes, I've got the role of Gigi. [01:09:00] Honestly, I nearly burst into tears because like you said, I have a quiet love and admiration for this human being. I, she's come through a world that I, I don't know about. She survived, you know, and there were so many that lived Jo's life that didn't. And when they talk about, when Jo's talking about the evergreen, I really appreciate Leilani giving us this opportunity. I was one of the young fledglings, [01:09:30] probably a couple of years after Jo. But, but, anyway, if a glass goes flying, it's part of our performance. So I remember going into the evergreen not knowing what it was like, and all I remember was the stank, like it had that stank. And I'm really germophobic. So they'd say, sit down. Yeah, I won't. Would you like a cup of coffee? And I was like, 2 o'clock in the morning, a cup of coffee? Until I tasted it. And they [01:10:00] had, what did they have it? Special coffee. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was watered down whiskey. And then you got a toasted sandwich and it was like 5. You know, so I forget the coffee. I'm, can I have five of those sandwiches? And then I, I heard the co Yes. Yes. But I heard about, you know, How this was a haven for a lot of the girls that worked on the Rory and I realized really quickly It wasn't a haven. It was actually a beacon of light not only for these girls, but for our [01:10:30] community and coming from I'd lived overseas. So coming into Wellington and sharing these experiences Watching these people feel safe Being able to talk escaping the police I remember one night, Raquel and I, my cousin, we went in there. We'd just done a show up at, uh, Pound. And I remember us going in there, and I heard all this shuffle on the street. And girls were coming in with blood. And they had had, like, [01:11:00] a, a Westie party or something. And all these guys from out West, I didn't know what out West was, but they'd come in and they had full cans of beer that they'd thrown at the girls and cut the heat. You know, and that was common, that happened a lot. I had never experienced that sort of violence in my life. So watching these girls, it was like, when Jo talks about the sisterhood, the power and the majesty of these women, you know, pulling out their boobs, they [01:11:30] had, you know, padded boobs, but pulling out their boobs and taking away the blood, putting on their lipstick, straightening their wigs. I sat quietly in the back of the throne, shaking. And I thought, Oh my God, they're getting ready to go back out. I've just been beaten. You know, they, the dreads of society are still circling the street, but here are these sisters patting down the bud. You're a [01:12:00] right girl here. Put on this lipstick, straighten your wig, brush your hair, pull up your taro, off you go, and these girls would go. And I was like, I feel a little bit sick in my mouth. I'm so scared. Oh, I want to go home, but I'd go out onto the Ruri and watch these girls, and it was like, yeah, it happened. Don't focus the negativity on me. It happened, and it happened to not just me, but to a bunch of people. And then I think about the resilience of our younger LGBTI community.[01:12:30] Oh, I don't know whether you should wear that shirt. I'm broken! Oh my God, she attacked me. You know, I'm thinking about the images that I took from this experience, and where is the resilience of our young people? How do you not, like Jo, you know, I look at Jo and I think, how did you survive? Because I was frightened. I wasn't part of that, that life. But for me looking in, having the strong admiration, Jenny Edwards and Dana, [01:13:00] um, Ricky Love. Who else? Uh, what was that called? Poppy. Uh, Kerry, Kerry Lee, Maxwell. They were the woman that, that I sat down and talked with. And once I, when I was starting to do drag, when I first did my first show, I was thinking, Yes, you're a woman. Anyway. Um, I was so happy and I was a little bit drunk. I was at Blue Note, I took off my shoes, and I took off my wig because I was hot. But I was hot, [01:13:30] like, right now. But I was really hot. And I remember Dana come up and slap me. Full palm. Whang! Like this. And I was like, You old crotchety old cow. You're in your fossil claws. And then she got all my stuff and said, Get home. And the next day she came around to my apartment. And she said, You have just demoralized all the women that have walked on this street to be women. And I can tell that you're a he she, you know, [01:14:00] you're still a boy, but you're dressing as a girl, and you're performing, and then you bust that illusion. You take off your shoes in public. Where's your sense of pride and your sense of dignity? And remember, we bled on the streets so that you can put on that dress. And she said, have some respect for us, and I never forgot that korero. I never. And so, my drag daughter is Spanky Jackson. I drilled that into my people, [01:14:30] because I want them to remember they bled on our streets. Georgina Beyer told me a story of her being beaten on the corner of Cuba Street and the police walking over her and kicking her, for example. That's why I say to you, you know, with the legacy of Evergreen, it was a beacon of light and it showed our community that you mattered. And it didn't matter whether you wore a dress, or, you know, you had the nicest Versace glasses, or you had your [01:15:00] opportunity shop purse. In this environment, there was no judgement. If you were mamai, meaning sick, we would heal you. If you were hungry, don't worry about it, your five dollars will feed you. If you were thirsty, Okay, we feel five dollars. But if you can understand the imprint that it left on the community, so when it, when it left, when it burnt down, I always remember a [01:15:30] strong image of Chrissy. And I, I don't know what it would have been like for Chrissy to always troll the streets You're sitting in a dumpster. I'll pick you up. I'll give you a kai. I'll give you a beard. You don't know who I am. You don't know my fucker puppy. You don't know the dangers that I've come from. What I do know is you are human and you are hurt and I have a place. [01:16:00] Come to the evergreen and the stories that I hear from, from Donna and, and all of these other ladies, it made me as a performer, uh, I want to do more. I wanted to create Amanda as a character that, that, um, using her as a platform to tell the story. Because I got frightened. Again, I get frightened a lot. But I got frightened that these stories are no longer being heard. that [01:16:30] people aren't telling the story. So when Leilani gave us this opportunity, I was excited that I was going to be with Jo, and you again, this has been great, but the opportunity to share the kaupapa so that you remember it. So that when we are kōmutu, when we are gone, you people can go and tell that person who'll tell that person, because you were here, you know, you witnessed it. You felt the integrity and the [01:17:00] mana of the kaupapa that we're talking about. Does that make sense? Yeah, to only two people, does that make sense? Yeah, so I'm so appreciative. And getting back to the boy, the queen, Max played a very integral role. I didn't know how important he was to the story until I got there and started to read. And we were working with some incredible actors, young people. You know, they're pulling out their lines off their phones. I still have my piece of paper that [01:17:30] had all the words on it. You know, and they're going, Oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Ah, yep. Um, blah, um, blah, blah. By about the second week, I'm praising Jo again. Uh, we lived together. And I would come home and go, God, I'm so tired. Because I was on scene a lot. And And Jo would go over and over and over my line so that the next morning when we're on set, when they say we're going to film, I could see her sitting across the road from me [01:18:00] going, I'll remember this, remember that, this is your motivation. Finding out the kaupapa of Max, Max was krisiuitoko. This was lived experience. I stepped into a role that I was. I've always performed as Amanda, and I've kept myself as Adam, very separate, deliberately. This was the first time on set that I was being called Adam, and I was like, ah, why are you using my [01:18:30] slave name? And I don't. But it took me a little while to, to, to feel comfortable again with that. And because I was playing Amanda, some of the time, it was a little bit of a mind jiggle for me, because I, I was so specific. On what I wanted to do as a performer. I was definitive in where I was going. Um, When I understood the stories that we were telling, and the lived experience of some of the people that are no longer with us, [01:19:00] the power that you feel, you know, and I started to feed into all these memories about Evergreen, and what it was like. Jo brought up an interesting point where we're in the changing room, and you know, for us. It was two takes I think because when we were doing our lines, we weren't talking as characters. We were talking for those that are tu. We were talking for our sisters that no longer live. [01:19:30] We were trying to convey to a New Zealand audience on a public platform. This is our AKA Papa, if you can feel us at all. Feel this, all the hilarity of the show is great, but feel this one moment when we're in the changing room and when we said that we loved one another, what we're saying is we finalized the love letter that Ramon had written to the streets. Her and I were [01:20:00] saying to them, we love you. Don't forget us. And we won't. So Max played a very integral part, and I think with Max's role being very, um, what did you call them? You know, when they're sitting in the thing in the evergreen, like, yeah, Jurassic. Max was very that. Very Jurassic. Very, I don't know who you are, dismissive, you do it my way or get out.[01:20:30] And I find I'm not that as a person. I'm not a dismissive person, so to be able to fill that character role properly, I had to teach myself to do that. And I didn't understand why he was so abrupt. Why he was so Here. Oh, what's this? A glass. It still has the lipstick stains on it. Do it again. Clean it. In fact, clean them all. That's a really [01:21:00] yuck thing to do to your boy. I realized what Max was doing. Max was stamping his authority. Because growing up and coming through that past and coming through that lived experience, you didn't have that. You had to earn it. So he is teaching people, I'm teaching you to earn my respect because I deserve it. So if I say to you, I appreciate you, I'm meaning it. Because somewhere along your path in our relationship, you have deserved it. [01:21:30] If I dismiss you, it's because in my world and in my mind, you haven't had the same challenges. You haven't had the same degradation, people spitting on you, people making you feel this. So you are not worthy of me because I am that I have lived through that rape. I have lived through that beating me up in the street. I lived through that. So if you want to come to my level, remember my kaupapa. And remember, [01:22:00] every table that I sit at, I am worthy to be here because I have earned it. Every room that I enter, I will not ask for your respect, but demand it, because my whakapapa says I deserve it. Does that make sense? So when you, if you go home and re watch the program, there are a lot of things, even my kids, when I started swearing, I don't swear in my normal day to day life. But I understood the importance of why Max was written the way [01:22:30] he was. What his story was. And it hurt to think, you know, you have to battle so hard in your life. And as you get older, you become less important. I heard someone on the panel say, Yeah, let's forget our past. We are slipping into that moontime of our lives. I know some of us on the panel are more than others. [01:23:00] But, let's not forget our moontime. Let's not forget them. And in your own way, send your own love letter. I have to share, as part of the series, there was a poignant part of Gigi's story. Has everybody watched it? Because I don't want to ruin it for anybody. So when she passes on, that's reminded me why it was so powerful was because that actually happened to one of our sisters Alexa. [01:23:30] Down here. She hadn't been in touch with their family for over 20 years. She had a partner at the time. She passed away, um, and her family come down and got her and put her male name on her coffin. And there was nothing, the sisters or her partner could do, really, because they trumped, you know, whakapapa trumps. And that was what was significant for me, because it was like a paying respect for what she went through. Even though she's a [01:24:00] kaitiaki for me now. Yeah, so it was such a, and it was so good. The series was, it's because everything's reality TV now. You know, no disrespect to it. You know, it's still getting the message out there. But it was lighthearted, dramedy. And it was cool. It was cool fun. It was my first time acting ever. And it was such a cool experience. Especially with this one. Because you're just a whole experience. Thanks. But you know, you know, like Gigi said, that was just one [01:24:30] story of our community. If you were Takatāpui in Raukau, for example, I've heard stories where you were buried outside of your cemetery. Because your blood might contaminate the, the earth. You know, thank goodness that practice has stopped. But you know, when, when you think about the program, and I, I sincerely trust that you, you look at it through a different lens now, you know, remembering this korero, remembering this whakapapa, because the more you remember and the more we talk about it, [01:25:00] the more enlightened and for every korero that happens, for every conversation, somewhere up there they're sparkling and going, oh, did you remember that? Did you hear that story? You know, and I, I believe. They live a little bit longer. Does that make sense? Yeah, thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks. Um, sorry. Sorry. Thank you very much. It's [01:25:30] not quite over yet, folks. Uh, we're gonna open the floor up for Q& A. And then, um, after questions and answers, uh, Adam's gonna close out with a cut of care. We will have tea and coffee and biscuits for people. But we also want to, um, invite you to Go to the next floor and have a look at the evergreen coffeehouse lunch line But are there any other partnery that you and Jo wanted to share with everybody? I just wanted to highlight this young queen, my little niecey poos, because I'm [01:26:00] so proud of what she's achieved She's got, yeah, she might say don't worry about my other hats, google me. At least the bitch can be googled I'm so proud of where she's come from, you know, because we, And this is, highlights the significance of knowing who you are and being okay about your past and because without that journey, we wouldn't be able to sit here and have this conversation with you all, but I'm so proud of you, my darling. Yes, you shine your, [01:26:30] shine your light. Yes, because she has made me proud and all her whanau too, obviously, because she's very mana wahine for me. And I'm so proud of her. And my sister Hinu, Te Kira, could you please stand up and say hello my sister? So my sister, she's been an inspiration for me. She know why? Her sister was, um, Tiana. That's her biological sister. Tiana. No, no, from Te Kira. Tiana from [01:27:00] Hastings, over there. You talk about Tiana, I should have named her Tiana. Yeah. So she's the sister, so she raised her cousins, two children from birth. And a lot of us whakawahine have aspired to do that. I've done it vicariously through my nieces and nephews, but I can hand them back. They still cost me a lot of money today, you know. But she's so mana wahine there for me, because she's done it. Like, and she can say she did it. Those are my kids. Don't you whakawahine touch them, you know. [01:27:30] But love them, and love yous. And sister Leilani. Yes, you have been a bit of a journey with me over the past. She was the DJ that used to always play Deborah Cox for me when I was wasted. At the Pound. Hurry up so I can dance. Yes, nobody's supposed to be here. Be quiet. Who has not wanted to ask questions? I'll give the mic and you guys can pass it around. Oh, and I wanted to thank Gareth and um, Gareth and Roger [01:28:00] from Pride New Zealand. Um, they've been recording the conversation. I hope everybody is okay with that. And um, we're really lucky that these two have been archiving our queer history. Uh, check out their website. It's really good for me too when I've missed events. I can go back and listen to everybody talking like you can do with this once it's up on the website. So thanks guys. I just wanted to ask, um, is there a second season of The Boy and the Queen and everything in between? [01:28:30] Well, I have spoken with Ramon, and so she's actually already written two more seasons, but because of the funding cuts from this fabulous government not, um, she's trying to source funding to have the second season. That's wonderful news. Thank you. It was really good. Thank you. So just on, a little bit on the series. Um, there's a lady over here that might need the mic. Thank you. [01:29:00] Um, just a little bit on the series. When we started, two weeks after the program aired, we become six in the country. On the third week, we were second built, top in the country. So that was a huge achievement, especially considering, um, TVNZ were talking to us about the LGBTI content And that it may not be accepted by the New, by a New Zealand audience to make it second in the country. That was an achievement. So that was great to all the people that came [01:29:30] by. A couple of weeks after we aired the show, within three weeks, The series went to Australia and within three days it was second top. The series has just been sold to Seattle, Washington. So they had it at a premiere in Canada. And so it's become an international, um, entity in itself. And there are, there are quite a lot of pockets of countries that are, that are wanting to have it purely because of the uniqueness and the, the [01:30:00] reality of what this co papa talks about. So that's good. Thank you very much. Just thought you'd inform you with that. Thank you. Sorry, your question. Kia ora, this may be a little wandery. Um, thank you both very much for your, your lovely kōrero. And also, particularly thank you, Jo. I remember hearing you sing in Marion Street in one of those evenings when I used to be there. Um, my name is Kay. And I first went to the Evergreen in 1974 as a teenager. So you know, [01:30:30] and, and just sharing that, that aroha, that feeling that this is a haven for queer people was there, um, for all people. So I'm Pākehā, you know, totally sort of love that it's a haven for Takatāpui and all the other people, but it was a space that had that. And then later in the eighties, there was a group of young queer. Um, women and Waka Wahine and the others who were doing sandwiches and drop in at the Evergreen, that was in the 80s. So [01:31:00] I'm just wondering, I know it moved around a little bit, do you have memories of different physical spaces that the Evergreen was in and how that came about? Because I remember Carmen and I remember Chrissie and, and different people running things, but it wasn't always in the same space. No, so that, no, from my experience Once the Evergreen was gone, that whole This is the last generation of sisterhood, as far as I'm concerned. Um, [01:31:30] today's generation might word it differently, but in terms of what we experienced in my generation, it ended here, with these girls. Actually stand up, sisters! From, um, they travelled all the way from Hastings. You know, and they're the ones that have, they've held on to the respect factor of the historical. As far as I, I will, yeah. Do you [01:32:00] remember moving around though, did they have different venues? For evergreen or was it just evergreen was just in one space? Yeah, and it didn't There was a thing like I mean, I know when Carmen had The the balcony and sort of for the shows and I went there and saw you know that that was a wonderful performance I mean at the 80s Wellington was wonderful. Oh, right. You know, so there were different queer spaces that people did have as well. And [01:32:30] I only knew the Vivian Street sort of everything. I was just reading a bit, sort of, you know. The other, well, Alfies. They had Alfies on Dixon. Oh, and Kaspers and Pound. Yeah, and then Pound came about. But, more so, because, it Unfortunately, but I don't know, I think some of the Atakatapui whānau back in the 80s were fearful of the queens, of trans, the whakawahine, because it wasn't as amalgamated. Um, we were [01:33:00] very segregated. Even when we'd go to the queen, um, um, the gay nightclubs, like Pound, I was very, um, popular at the Pound through Macmillan Scotty, because I had a relationship with them, but also I made relationships with some, um, Um, prolific, uh, Takatāpui, um, Tāne and Wāhine, um, through my journey. But some, you know, there's some that, oh, you know, are you friends with them? With the girls? Because we were fighters. We literally had to fight on the streets to [01:33:30] survive. Um, you know, and I have to share this. I never got beaten up by, once, by a man. Because I visually always saw a man with a, because we would, you know, like they say, there's that saying, Stilettos are, wear a repin. Trust and believe they were. That's why we would really wear them. And, um, I would always see my father's face. So, I wasn't, you weren't going to beat me anymore. And, but that was in, in spite. We were, you know, we kept breaking [01:34:00] blistered knuckles or cut knuckles. And then get up and then mince it again next job. You know. And then ironically, those ones that would get cheeky, or have a fight, come back black and blue, and say, oh, fuck off, what do you want now? They go, how much is it for a blowjob? Why don't you just come out and say that in the start? Instead of putting yourself through all that misery. Trust and believe, and that's a common, and the sisters will say, it's a common factor that the ones that have got a problem are [01:34:30] usually the ones that want to change. Yeah. Kia ora. I actually grew up with, um, Chrissy, Carmen, with Ricky. I was 14 when I ran away from home and ended up at the Doodle and up at Molesworth Street. It was our very first topless restaurant. And no one had a clue how old I was at that time. And I started working there, making money so I could actually live with Ricky. And strange enough, over the years, [01:35:00] one of the things the Queen's taught me, they said to me, it was really interesting because I'm, I'm not, I'm not gay, they said to me, you'll be a queer one day. And they did right, I've got there now. But they actually guided me through my education. I went to Vic and I got my first degree in education. I went over to Australia and did um, Two years over there with the support of my queer whanau here, [01:35:30] I became, I picked up on open plan teaching. I came back here, had to do a couple of years of Christchurch. That was a hell hole. The queens down there didn't accept me because I wasn't gay. So, I just left that and then when I came back up here, Carmen was running Light for Council. And she had gypsum. And one of the memories I remember, we all went away and we were in the middle of the far north and we were doing a concert up there. [01:36:00] Gypsy, in the afternoon, Gypsy got all dressed up and we're walking along this dirt track type of road and this milk truck comes along and Gypsy's the Queen of Queens, looking like the Queen of Queens and he nearly runs over and she chops our faces off. Over the fence, all you see is fishnets and high heels, and we'd go flying across the top of a fence. And I remember my kids, I had two little kids, [01:36:30] and they said to me, what's Nanny Gypsy doing? And I says, getting out of the way of a truck. But these memories and all of these things led me into Parliament, it led me into the Māori Party, it led me back to do my Masters. And if it wasn't for Gypsy, Chrissie, Chrissie used to always say to me, Oh you dyed your hair girl, have you just lost a partner? And I'd go, are you? [01:37:00] But she was right. She knew me inside out. So when I heard you played um, Yeah, I thought Aunty Millie would be looking down on you saying, do it right, save some money and do it at cut price. I learnt all those things and I didn't realise how brash I was. And funny enough, my daughter's just come over from Perth and she's a chartered accountant, another one. See this has let down my [01:37:30] kids. All my kids have got degrees. Now I would never have had a degree. Because I had no home when I was 14. It took the Queens of Wellington. And yeah, I patched up a lot of our queens that got hurt. And I also went back to Ōtaki with one of them that died. And that was on the streets of Abern Street. And so, yeah, the young people don't realise all the pain and suffering that our queens went through [01:38:00] making a pathway for them. And it's no different than the young Afro American children that are killing each other and the lives that their people have actually lost, like Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. So this is the same sort of thing in Aotearoa. They are people, and one of the things that Chrissie taught me was look after, manaaki ki te tangata, which means look after people. It's not just about me, [01:38:30] it's about everybody. And that's what she taught, taught me right up until the last part of her life. And I just hope I've honoured her by doing what I can to make a better world for not only, um, our gay people, but also our Māori people. So, kia ora. That's beautiful korero. Just behind you, my love. Just behind you. for your, for your korero. Thank you. [01:39:00] Hi. Thank you. I just wanted to say, um, uh, thank you. Thank you for having this event. I don't know if you can hear me all right. I'm not used to talking into this. Um, I just want to say that, uh, yeah, I've seen the, uh, the, uh, Evergreen as like a, was a family owned thing. Cause, you know, Aunty Millie was just as much of that place too back in the day. Um, I came to Wellington in 81. Didn't know anyone.[01:39:30] Went on a work skills scheme, and there was um, Yvette, Renee, and Serena, and they took me home. And they saved my life. And the Evergreen saved my life, because it gave me a group of people that didn't care who I was, so long as you're a nice person, that's all I cared about, um, and they had great values, and fun, and Um, life [01:40:00] skills, you know, I learned everything, you know, through those people. Um, and, uh, the shows that were put on back in the day, back in the day I say, you know, um, with, um, Georgie and Dana DePaul and, you know, um, Yvette, Renee, you know, they were just incredible. Um, Georgie was also part of, um, the, the, Alfie's group in Auckland, Bloomers, they came [01:40:30] down here and bought their show a couple of times. It was just incredible. And Chrissy would say, you know, it didn't matter who who you are so long as you're nice, you're in, you know, and um, About the coffees, you know, I just wanted a real coffee. I couldn't drink it because Aunty Millie would say, I look after you darling and dear boy. And I'd be like, no, I don't want that coffee, you know. And Violet in her toasted sandwiches, you know, um, [01:41:00] she was amazing. Des, Des Cooper was always there. Um, you know, um, and some of the funniest times I had was sitting in the front booth with Renee. And, um, Rene would say things in my ear as people came in. You know, she'd be either calling them their old dead names or she'd be, she'd be saying things about them and it was just so funny. It was a send off, eh? You'd send off each other. It was just incredible, [01:41:30] you know. And, um, yeah, send everyone up and everything, and I can remember hearing you and Mariah singing down Marion Street on a many a night. Um, and, um, yeah, they were the best times of my life. And, um, Alexis, um, when Alexis first, um, transitioned, uh, Yvette taught, um, um, um, Alexis a lot of stuff. So she had a same way of performing. Yeah. Yeah. That's why [01:42:00] and I don't know if you guys know, but you know, uh, remember licks across the road. Well, the, the girl in the champagne glass was actually drawn by Viet and, um, Brian came out to, I used to live with Evette and Keitha out at, um, Elsdon and for a while. And, um, he came out, um, and. I can remember him looking at, because Yvette used to put her face in all the pictures, and um, I can remember Brian going, well we [01:42:30] might just change the face a little bit, you know, soften it up sort of thing. But I used to go past that picture, and I'd be so proud, you know, that my friend did that picture, and you know, it was just such pride and lots of things back then. Um, unfortunately I feel like when we all became equal, we lost our community, you know. And, um, but yeah, so that's what I wanted to say. And, um, as far as your, um, your, uh, [01:43:00] series goes, I have binge watched it so many times. I have laughed, I have cried, I have, you know, it's an emotional journey. I loved every bit of it. Um, But please it's gotta continue 'cause I need to know who the mom is. . So do we. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Um, I just wanted to ask, you've mentioned, both of you [01:43:30] have mentioned a couple of times that the younger generation coming through now has. We've sort of lost, there's a lack of respect, a lack of community. Do you have any thoughts or ideas on sort of how that's happened and what you'd like the community of young people today to look like? Well, um, that's why I wanted to highlight what Saviiey's doing in her mahi. Um, she's actually picked up that mantle for the younger generation. [01:44:00] Unfortunately, um, she can only reach so far. We're only octopus thieves, not octopus. Um, but she's doing it vicariously through her mahi. And I think, to be honest, um, I don't know if they'll ever, um, be able to get their essence of these memories of that sisterhood. They could create their own, but I mean, I'm working with a couple at the moment, [01:44:30] um, because I'm a community support worker for CCS Disability Action, and what's common from the young trans people that I've met on my journey now, in this generation, they're suffering from a lot of, um, um, Doubt and a lot of harm. Self harm is out there for them. So I think that's what's lacked for them, is that bond of becoming part of a sisterhood. That, like, I've got relationships, and just [01:45:00] like sister over here's just shared, she's held on to that, the relationship she, and the fire over here that shared that. I don't know whether they can have that for them, to be able to look back on. They could create something like that, but it will never ever have the same essence. Unless, like these shows, like the Boy the Queen and everything in between, as some, an avenue for them to aspire, or to, you know, cause nothing, um, don't get me wrong, [01:45:30] everything in the community and society today, even though it's different, you can still, you know, Grab hold and create your own, you know, sisterhood. But I don't ever think it will ever look like that because there's too much of this technology stuff. If you ain't got one of these on, in your face, you know, we were from a generation, when I was on the ascent of it, these queers over here, they're the ones that paved the way too. They walked as part of their journey.[01:46:00] Um, so I don't think they, The technology, and it's all aspirational, is to be better than, I've got this, you've got, you know. We had fuck all, but we still had a lot of love for each other, and we had each other's backs. And I don't know if that's prevalent today, you know. And you know, in addressing your comment, everything in our community has its purpose, and is valid. So even though it looks different to us, or it looks different to, I'm just going to speak on [01:46:30] my own behalf, It looks different to me with young people and I think that the journey that they've been on is very much televised It's not real. So when you're looking at RuPaul's Drag Race, for example, that's a television program guys You know and you have to have 2, 000 earrings or else you're not, you're not current. You're not real. That, that's fake but because of our, the way that our world is going now, You know, you, you [01:47:00] put on something and you could have somebody 10, 000 miles away that hates your shoes. Then someone that doesn't like your earrings, to one person. They, they don't like your handbag or they don't like what you said on social media. That bully tactic, you get one comment and another comment and another comment. Of course, that one child who's trying to find themselves is going to find this world very difficult to navigate in. So when you say, what does that look like? To me, that's [01:47:30] what that looks like. To me, that's where, um, I guess, in our community, there aren't enough platforms like this, you know, to have these corridors. But another thing I think we all need to take into respect, maybe they don't want to know about your past. Like that girl said, we don't need to know about our history. Maybe that's the reality. And if that's the case, so be it. Because we all have our own journeys. We all have our own kōrero, and it is valid, [01:48:00] and it means something. It may look different through my lens, but to their lens, this is their reality. So I, I, and answering your question, I, I don't know, unless, like I don't know where they can go, unless they go to handsome people like this one here, creating this whakaaro. You know, unless they go to the libraries, and they have to want to know. Like, do you want to know about your past? Do you want to know about Chrissy Weetoko? Do you actually? [01:48:30] Because that means that you have to step out of where you live right now. Step out of your comfort zone. Step out of your mindset. And not buy into all this bully tactic on the interweeb. Interweeb? You know, one of those. Don't buy into all that. And I feel sorry for the amount of bullying that I hear. You know, and then you look at our statistics in New Zealand. Between the ages of 17 and 34, people that identify as, um, LGBTI, they have got, they, [01:49:00] they are 70 percent, they fall into the 70 percent category of suicides. And again, I bring it back to your, your attention, the resilience is gone. How do you sustain a, a, a, a breath when you're getting hounded by people that don't even know you? You know, how do you, I can't afford the 10 thing, so I can't go out. Someone doesn't like my shirt, I'm going to die. You know, and I say that jokingly and I shouldn't, but that's the reality [01:49:30] of now. So I guess unless we have these forums and unless we have this kōrero, young people won't know because they don't have that, that ability to step out of, out of themselves. This is just my thoughts. Does that answer your question? Joke. Thank you both for, well, everyone who shared their, their experiences. Yeah, kia ora. I wanted to sort of carry on with that question. [01:50:00] Um, I am here today as a sex work activist. I'm Takatāpui Ngāti Raukawa, a performance artist, drag queen, and I just want to speak on being that younger generation of a sex worker. I do feel that tremendous responsibility and being Māori, understanding that stories are so valuable. I really want to thank you all. Thank you. When I perform I want you to know I feel that mana and I like that I have Pakiha skin because I get to penetrate Pakiha spaces and go Ha ha ha! You guys need to respect the whores and the [01:50:30] trans and the Ha ha ha ha! And I really want to let you know that there are younger generation of sex workers and trans youth out there I'm you know part of many houses as a drag reformer. We know We tell those stories over kai and we are doing our part to educate the youth. So tena koutou. I am listening. Thank you. Namahe.[01:51:00] Thank you very much for allowing us this privilege to share these stories. Thank you to my co panelists, to Leilani and to the venue. Thank you very much. Thank you also to those that have traveled. So good to see you guys. For those that have come to share their memories and to uphold the kaupapa of the Evergreen. Like [01:51:30] Leilani said, go through and have a look at the Evergreen poster. If you get an opportunity, please watch the boy, the queen and everything in between and then like and subscribe. That would be great. Karakia, I was going to do one in Maori, but I think The majority of us speak English, so I'd like to do it in English. Um, if we can bow our heads in prayer. Heavenly Father, we're so grateful for our health and our well being. We are [01:52:00] privileged and honored to hear this kaupapa and the truth of it. We ask that you bless us with the health and the wisdom and the knowledge to go forth as a community and as people and share this light. We ask that you give us the ability to be kind to one another, to be virtuous in what we do. We ask that if you are struggling at this time, that you find and seek help and korero. We ask these blessings and we are thankful for so many. In the name of Christ, amen.
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