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Elizabeth. I'm so pleased that we've been able to actually, um, managed to get you in Wellington and, uh, for an interview. It's It's been a while now, and I know you're so incredibly busy that it's it's sometimes hard to, um, to to actually be able to sit with you for a while. Um, Elizabeth, would you like to, um, just introduce yourselves? Oh, really pleased to be here, So I'm Elizabeth. I originally come from Gisborne. My tribes, [00:00:30] Uh, and I moved back home a few years ago after 20 years in Wellington. And I felt, too, if I was going to introduce myself. I always say, I'm I'm an artist and an activist. And I remember you from days when we were, um, playing softball. Yes. Or or I'm not sure if you are playing so much as managing the [00:01:00] team and and doing the stats and keeping us in order. Yes, and doing fundraising. So I know if we could have proper catchers gear, Elizabeth. This, um, interview is is being done for the homosexual law reform, uh, series for pride NZ dot com. Uh, around the sort of time of the early eighties or 85 86 where whereabouts were you. So I was, uh, back in Dunedin, where my mother is from and I was at Teachers College [00:01:30] at the time. I was involved in a lot of different political groups. In the early eighties, I was part of the black women's movement. We had a young black women's group, uh, mainly of Maori and Pacific uh, young people. I was also involved in another Maori women's group in the university, uh, Maori Maori Club. I was part of that before I started going to university, and I was part of a coalition then of political groups that would [00:02:00] work really closely together. So Maori pakeha Pacific Island with all sorts of different political viewpoints. And the real value for me was that model that said, we always looked at how we had similar interests and how we could work together rather than concentrating on what was different and, uh, and made it difficult to work. And so what we would do is is each of us would identify what were the key needs in our particular [00:02:30] areas and our particular interests, and then the other groups will come together to support so my role in the homosexual law reform I'd already been out for several years. I came out as a teenager. Uh, was we followed the lesbian and gay groups and individuals who pulled together the actions in Dunedin. So back in the day, we were letting, uh, we were standing on street corners talking to people. Uh, I was, uh, raising those kind of issues in the Maori communities that I [00:03:00] was in. And then when it came to the marches, then all of us will club together and bring in our networks to help support those actions. And so absolutely, we saw that what was happening around law reform and basic human rights was something that affected all of us, no matter how we identified. And so I think still to this day, that is how II I look at when I'm thinking around political action is always looking to how we connect, how we can work together, how we [00:03:30] can support, uh, the issues that affect us in different ways and also recognise that people need their own space. People need to be able to meet as Maori only as women only as lesbian or queer or as trans, uh, to have the space to a just the support just to be able to free to be to be yourself, to be free to be yourself. But also, um, to get that clear headspace, you need to do your own thinking and planning, but then for to be able [00:04:00] to come out to your allies and say right, this is the focus for this, and this is how we can move forward. And I think I still use that model today. That sounds sounds fantastic. It sounds very, um, sounds very constructive. We got a lot of work done. I I from a very young age. I just thought my life activism isn't a thing I do in my spare time. It is my life and everything I do folds into that. As I like to say, What do we get up for in the morning, if not to change the world? [00:04:30] Oh, I love it. I love it. Um, Elizabeth, when you say that you were talking with Maori communities around that time, can you recall, um, the sort of response you were getting from people? It was interesting. Now, when especially looking back from my point of view of working nationally and internationally around issues. Looking back in those kind of quite innocent conversations that we had back then because I was fortunate to come into a family [00:05:00] who were really, really supportive and or to be born into and to come out within. And and so I went around with that expectation that it's not acceptable to not accept your Children. And so when I'd sit down and talk with different people say at our, uh, at, um, the the groups that I was in so in, then we would look at it as a political issue. Uh, we would, uh and and I guess that's the other thing, too, is pitching it. You pitch things [00:05:30] differently to different audiences. So we look at it as a political human rights issue. Uh, in that case, well, it's very clear. Uh, but when we talked to people at the park or at um and now the social networks, and particularly older Maori, then we'd always look at it from a cultural point of view and and number one first, how can anybody reject their child? Uh, because of their sexual orientation or gender identity? Uh, it's just not acceptable. And [00:06:00] so when we have these So that was the first thing I came with that expectation and viewpoint. So when we had the conversations, it was interesting when people weren't sure or the church didn't make, um had really specific views against that. And, of course, we came into a time where churches were heavily organising against it. Uh, and the beauty, I guess, of being in a smaller centre was that I think the people [00:06:30] may be a bit more cohesive, a bit more connected. Uh, you couldn't just separate yourself out completely. You knew people who were in those communities. You knew their families and and so you couldn't entirely just say they're the other. They're the They're the ones who are going to objectify over there. You had to have a bit more analysis. So the kind of issues that we still hear from, um that that it's not natural that they're gonna get hurt, they're gonna die from AIDS. Uh, that, uh, people won't accept them. Therefore, [00:07:00] it's better if they don't say anything. And so we would just have conversations because it's not our place. Certainly not to tell our elders what to do in any, uh, environment. Uh, and just that I always had the feeling and and all the people that I was around that the number one This is your child and your job is to look after them. And so whether they were being really more polite because they were talking to me and they know all my [00:07:30] family as well. Uh, but I always found that being able to have a conversation where they could express their grief perhaps, uh, their their lack of understanding or just the real concerns without being told off For that point of view again, those are things I learned from the groups that I was working around, that we have a conversation that we don't tell people what to do. We we know people won't change. [00:08:00] We can't change people. They will change when they're ready to, uh, we can educate. We can talk. But what is the best thing? What does that person need? What environment can we set up? Uh, to make that happen. And certainly around homosexual law reform, there were a lot of Maori who are very, very divided around this and so on. One side they go. Yes, yes, I know it's our kid, or it's someone in our But my church says this. And so there was. But there were still heated discussions. Uh, there were Maori who are actively involved in churches. Really, Really, against this, [00:08:30] uh, but in the circles, in the political, um, realms that we're around and kind of the edges of that we had, we had a lot of support, so it it was never a clear cut. You can never say things like Maori don't support this or Maori all that as we can't do in any on any topic. Uh, we can. I think we can make categorical statements about what our culture represents. And so I always go for that. Like, if it's make that real. So So in a way, um, maybe [00:09:00] the homosexual law reform, um, the activities around the presented an opportunity to raise these issues in conversations it absolutely did. And that's the great thing about national actions. Uh, it really can really polarises people, Uh, and for me, I'm I'm really relaxed around polarities because I think if someone has a strong opinion on something, I really, really respect that because I know they care about things they, their opinion [00:09:30] and and the decisions decisions are important to them. So when you can have a really solid conversation around that, then if the person changes their mind or waves, then you know that you have the solid support. Then once they understand what's going on, some people just revolting. It's not gonna happen. But and then there's that group in between that say, I don't want to hurt anybody. I don't want to be seen to be really bad. But as long as no one asks me up front, I'm just gonna say nothing. So when you ask them and have that conversation, um, depending [00:10:00] on how they want to be seen in the world and whose approval its they most seek, then there's a real opportunity for them to actually start changing their mind. Um, and so definitely, absolutely. It's hard to raise these issues out of nowhere. And But when you've got something to kind of hang off going Oh, we're talking to people about this, you know? What do you think? What do you think we should do? So the black women's group that you're [00:10:30] involved in Can you tell me a little bit more about that? So it was called Young Pacifica. Uh, so we were teenagers when we set that up and we we called ourselves a black woman's group and as part of the black women's movement, which was really big in the early 19 eighties, and the use of the word black was a very conscious political term to align with the struggles that and what was happening over in the United States. And so as part of that, we were hosting a lot of people from from the states black [00:11:00] activists, um, lesbian feminists coming over. I got to meet people like Audrey Lord to hang out with which is highlight. And I don't think I've understood at the time how significant that was. Uh, but we got an opportunity to talk with people who are doing that work and also to learn how to be a good ally, Uh, rather than what do we think is the best thing to do for people who've got a completely different struggle? It's actually they tell us what they need from us, and that's [00:11:30] what we do. And that's a real, um, I. I think and being their ally, it's a letting go of ego and that actually accepting what someone else has expressed is what's important to them and what their needs and aspirations are and going with that, rather than what I think would be really good for them, what I think they should do, Uh, and just kind of letting it all go and because it's like, there's you can cannot stand up and say This is what we [00:12:00] need This is what, uh we want if you're not prepared to allow everyone else to stand up and do that on their own behalf And so that group, we did a lot of different actions. We support a lot of political movements as well, because we because we saw how things were connected. So we were supporting, uh, can the, uh against, uh, nuclear warships and our harbours? Because there was that was a really huge at the time. So in 84 when, [00:12:30] uh uh yes, David Lange made the, um, really brave and incredible stance to be nuclear free and and it's great when those stances are made, but we always have to be vigilant. Uh, that and that we all contribute to making sure that we can maintain that state of being. So when there was a threat of something coming and we were out there protesting about that and as I say back in the day we were doing, we still had access to, And then if we really flashed, someone [00:13:00] would be able to use their photocopier. Uh, we were handwriting and hand drawing leaflets. I think you might have to say what a is. Oh, seriously. They used to have them in schools, and you would do First, there's the multiple carbon copies. You would do that. And, uh, but you do one copy, and you put it through, and you had to, uh, roll a handle around. Honestly, I'm sure I'm trying to show you this by, but you can't see the charades that are going [00:13:30] on here that are clearly going to display what I'm talking about. But it, uh, yeah, it would print off a whole lot of cup copies and like, yeah, like multiple carbon copies. You had to turn a crack. Yeah, like a crank, a big wheel. And it smelled really, really nice when we were at school and we get them all the kids. I don't even know what the chemicals were, but we go. Oh, that smells so nice. And it would come up in really, really cool colours because [00:14:00] all the photocopy, all the carbon paper stuff was like blues and greens. So we always have these cool colours. Yeah, and it's like, Oh, photocopy is so boring. Uh, yes. So we would And, you know, we'd write strongly worded letters to people and we stood on the streets and we leaflet it and had conversations with people walking past very public way of protesting. And very and so we'd spend hours. Um, just having conversation right hand things out, talk [00:14:30] to people and, yeah, develop, try and develop relationships with other organisations So we could always so we could work together. Have those relationships stood. The test of time are certainly the women who were involved and our black women's group. We particularly the family. So Marie Pip and Tilly, I was really, really close to. I practically lived at their house. Their mother was [00:15:00] a mother to me. So shout out in the memory of and we we kind of grew up together politically. and certainly Pip and Marie were older than me. So they were already politically active. And I've been active in Maori things, but this we were quite talking. We're studying Maori sovereignty. When we were teenagers, Uh, we were talking about how does racism work? And in this environment, what does it mean for migrant people who are [00:15:30] resident in this country in terms of the treaty? So we're having hard out discussions, and we It wasn't always easy. It was certainly not always comfortable. Uh, there were times when we had to get told to just, like, settle down a little bit. Uh, but we were part of a radical community all doing different amazing things. So we got to learn about things for me that I wouldn't normally have have done. I was doing and I was doing [00:16:00] other things and being a nerd at school. But and you know, if you say, what are you going to do with your time? You wouldn't do all these millions of things. But you you still because of the way we worked and you knew what was happening with everybody else And we looked at ways. Where does it connect? with what we think. Uh, how can we support that as part of what we already do? It's not extra work when you work together. Well, it's not extra work to support anybody else's struggle that connects with yours. Hm. [00:16:30] You moved to Wellington around the late eighties? Yes. Did you go via? Looks like Well, I did my last year at Teachers College in Palmerston. I'll be close to Gisborne so I could go and spend more time with my great grandmother and family up there. Uh, but yes. In 89 I moved to Wellington. I was part of the te Papa project. I was in the museum development office. They called it the project office. So I helped design [00:17:00] Papa, which is pretty flash. I was 25 years old. Yeah, so So. But, you know, uh so when people we talk about working with young people and go, they're gonna be our future leaders. They are leaders right now, and they have been leaders of their own lives since they were born. And and we just need to support that the young people get on and do what they're doing. How do we They just need to let us know what we need to do. We need to use our brain. But coming back to this So yeah, that that comes because we were doing incredible [00:17:30] things when we were very young. We started, like, coming back to school. We started organising national when we were 18, and, uh, we we're meeting people from all over the country. We're talking about different things as part of Teachers College. When I started there, then I, um, formed a national network of Maori representatives on each of the teachers, college boards or committees in each of the colleges and and so wherever, Wherever we I was what we were doing, we'd start organising and bringing [00:18:00] people together. So when I moved to Wellington, uh, so it was wonderful to work on the project. It was a groundbreaking, the first bicultural museum in the world. And I was an institutional planner, Maori, and so I helped design. I work with engineers, architects and all that to design I part of my work was designing the spaces for the and the Maori Hall, and I designed the bicultural concept for the planting and helped do up the planting plan for the landscaping. [00:18:30] So and many, many years later, my partner and I got married. There I was. There you were there. You were 18. With the A team from. Well, I know it's you had different. I remember looking around the room and at the hundreds of people there, and I could see different groups of people that you had. And I remember when you were taking people to have a photo [00:19:00] with the both you and A that, um that the Amazons. That was kind of why I was there. I think, um, that we got up and had a photo with you. But there were plenty of other groups there, and I felt that was really It was It was so nice to see. See someone drawing on in so many parts of the world. Yeah. And I tell you what, the most political thing I've done in my life, it was the invitation list for that event. Oh, my God. Who's on? Who's Can everyone bring their partner? [00:19:30] Yeah, and I haven't even met them, right? We don't want to go there again. Yeah. No, no, that is I'm never doing that again. I'm sticking with the one I've got. But how amazing to you have, in fact, been involved in designing a space that you could then use it for such a special event. Yes. No, it was magic. It really was. And and because it was such a creative, it was also a very political process. The government was changing at the time, and so we're always on contract. We never knew [00:20:00] if the project would keep on going and what was gonna happen. So, uh, it was really dynamic. But I learned so much, and I got trained in many different aspects of museum life so that I could understand what the needs were and and work with different parts of, um yeah, the different parts of how the museum operates. But also, I'm an artist. I was My father was an artist and carver. I brought up doing art. And so I've been involved in galleries and museums for a long time. And so [00:20:30] it was crazy exciting for me to be able to be part of such a revolutionary, um, organisation and of course, is amazing. And you've got art in Parliament. Thank you. Um, yes, I have a piece. I did um, for my graduate exhibition I went to when I moved home to Gisborne at the Maori Art School. And, yes, that was my works. And I did [00:21:00] an exhibition the following year in Wellington, and it got seen actually by Tim Barnett and his partner, Ramon, and they recommended it be bought, purchased by Parliament. And that all happened. The Rainbow Caucus, um, got that together, and so it was purchased to commemorate the passing of the Marriage Amendment Act. So that's pretty exciting to know that something that's, um, hanging in parliament. Very cool. Very cool. And and in fact, I think [00:21:30] it it forms the cover of, um of your your booklet. Part of the That's just been released. Can you talk a little bit about that? OK, so this resource, after I finished my art degree, I was in the process of finishing it, and I was asked to I had been asked to do a PhD, uh, by Alison Laurie and and I had had no intention of doing [00:22:00] anything like that because I wanted to be a full time artist. That was the goal. Uh, so I could do my activist work around that and foolishly, and I wouldn't recommend anyone does this. But in my last year of art school, I started my PhD. How long ago was that? Let's see, It's coming up probably four years ago. Yeah, so 2000. So it was 2012. Yeah, As I was finishing the art degree, I started the PhD and it took [00:22:30] me a while to reduce down. Obviously, I wanted to do something around, uh, but I couldn't. It took me a long time to focus. I wanted to do 100 different things and and I reduced it. What? I felt down to nothing, but it Still. Actually, I cover a whole lot of different things. And so it's called The PhD is called part of the the emergence of identity. And as I continue to [00:23:00] do active activist work while doing the PhD, or there's just so many needs out there, people constantly asking me about these things written, of course, there's next to nothing written and and I was realising that the need is quite immediate and it wasn't And even when I finished the PhD, and it will eventually, um, get OK and then may be published that's a way down the track, and not everyone's going to read that. And even though it's I don't use heavily academic language, [00:23:30] even in that writing, it's still not really accessible at all. And so I thought this would be an ideal way to start getting out some of that information. Meet that constant need, uh, and kind of distil some of the guts of what I was trying to put across in that and the thesis into something that's more manageable. So this particular one was a collaboration with the Mental Health Foundation, and we did it I. I kind of borrow my [00:24:00] services as chair of So I set up around 2000 to So I found it to be a place for to come down, to provide a safe space for those of us who are from outside this tribal area but live and work in Wellington and so a place that we can come and bring all the parts of ourselves together to bring our cultural, our Maori sides to live our culture, be able to use our but also to provide a space for people who may be [00:24:30] strong in their sexual and gender identities but not really sure about the Maori side. And so this was a place where they could start to reconnect, that they could start to learn things and be around other Maori in a place that was really honouring their all all of their identities. And so and then a third aspect was that we would develop relationships around the community because I hate to say it, but there's discrimination and racism that exists in our broader rainbow communities, [00:25:00] and we wanted to address that. But we wanted to do it in a way that wasn't about Ra Ra Ra. You're a racist. Sort your shit out, Uh, that we wanted to do it like actually, you know, there's appropriate ways to behave. There's the appropriate use of. And I believe that we have over the years developed that to the extent that not much happens around Wellington without being involved being included, and that took years to set up to develop [00:25:30] those relationships and the key with that and again mirroring. How I came through in my politics is was always set up that it was open all its activities, our our ongoing group and any other event or things we're involved with is for the and friends. So anybody who feels comfortable in that space is welcome. But all the key decisions, major, uh, policy or strategy. Things are made by the board, and [00:26:00] at the moment, that comprises of myself, Kevin. And so he he tried to resign, I don't know, 56 years ago, but we kind of ignored him. But, um, yes, so So bringing all that forward to the resource, then, is whenever I do anything that's related to our rainbow communities, I do so, uh, as and so this is the first of the collaboration, and this is specifically it was funded through WAKA around suicide prevention. [00:26:30] Because we know all the statistics tell us that our rainbow young people and our rainbow people generally featured way too highly in all the negative stats around self harm, depression and sort of suicidality. And so I wanted something that spoke to about where comes from and to understand that from a cultural point of view that says this is not a foreign [00:27:00] thing. This is something that used to be the same sex. Both sex, attractive behaviour, gender fluidity was actually part of our culture. It was accepted behaviour back in the day prior to colonisation and that that interference and corruption of parts of our culture came about through colonisation. And when we have been taught to believe in lots of our that this is a foreign [00:27:30] thing and that is just not true. And so part of this is just saying, actually, we need to relearn some of this stuff. This is the truth around it. And also just to remind people of those basic, uh, again Maori culture about looking after our young people who might not understand, uh, and agree with everything they do. They're still your daughter, their brother, your sister, your child, uh, your cousin, your uncle, your auntie and [00:28:00] and those basic things around and the essence of who we are, we can't. We shouldn't be challenging those things because I make some big claims in here. I say that, uh, our, uh comes from our ancestors. I don't think many people would dispute that, but I say our sexuality and our gender comes as part of our therefore that comes from our ancestors, and we disrespect our ancestors. When we challenged [00:28:30] someone's own knowledge of who they are Because Maori we're all about identity. We are about our tribes. We are about our We're about our do not work with us Uh and actually that includes our sexuality and our gender. And so I try to just reposition the the discussion around it and because I say also, when you claim you already know that your gender or sexuality diverse and [00:29:00] so you're actually reclaiming your Maori self. So I absolutely position as a Maori identity because I I have issues with some of the the ways conversation happen around things like intersectionality because they say, OK, there's Maori here. Then there's lesbian and gay or queer. And I go, um actually, I'm going to talk maths. I would say an event diagram. We are actually squarely completely inside Maori because, as I always say, we have always [00:29:30] been here and that we should actually look at different kinds of inventory around it, like weaving like how we connect again, always how we connect and how we to strengthen our, uh to strengthen our people. We need to embrace all the members of it and we don't need to agree with everything we don't need to understand it again. In this resource, I have my top tip tips [00:30:00] and one of those for is you don't have to get it. You just have to be there and getting it will come over time. So how do how do people actually get hold of this resource? The quickest way is the resources available on PDF. Or you can ask for a hard copy from the Mental Health Foundation on their resource do mental health dot org dot NZ and it's coming up soon on [00:30:30] the website. Uh, that will be available, but there's also a film, uh, resource that comes with that. So you'd be encouraging to be reading this? Absolutely. I think it's a good introductory thing for anybody to read. It's the first of its kind. The only resources we've had prior to this have been specifically around sexual health and produced by AIDS Foundation. So this is the first that looks at and all of its aspects and the breadth of [00:31:00] all of our identities. Uh, so I think if if you're wanting what is what does it mean? How do I explain it then? This is the resource for you. Uh, when you're looking specifically around and some where struggles are happening, and it might. It's not necessary that hopefully it's gotten that bad that your child is suicidal because of it. But we just want to point out that lack of acceptance by is is so hurtful and [00:31:30] and so fundamentally damaging to the of any person. But to a Maori, it's It's so fundamental that that's something we need to avoid. We need to have the discussion before things get that bad. And so absolutely it was designed with in mind that you could say Ah, and my belief is when you can look at it as a Maori as Maori identity, then I think that clears out some of the issues, uh, that are going on. And then we're doing some follow up resources. Um, doing started [00:32:00] one with Rainbow Youth, a national organisation based in Auckland, Uh, where we're going to interview some young but also their parents and their grandparents so that elders and can speak to each other. Parents can speak to each other and young people to each other to say How do we create who are supportive of our of our youth and and again. It's It's a Maori base and it's base. It's treaty based, but I believe the message in that applies [00:32:30] to all of us from the people that you've quote within the resource. You have several, um, several folk that you've talked to as part of developing it, and they they get They get to have a A say, and um, can you talk to some of the people that have helped you, um, supported you in putting this together? OK, so we interviewed five different. We wanted to have a range of ages [00:33:00] and identities, and so we're our youngest. Well, now they're in their early thirties, but late late twenties when I first talked to them and I actually went back to the ones that I had interviewed for my PhD and and the eldest, Jennifer has just turned 65. So we've got a huge range and also a really wide range of tribal identities. I think the thing that comes through with the way that people talk [00:33:30] and you see it beautifully in the in the videos is we have an expectation of of acceptance that we ah, and and some of the quotes in here are magic. And because we're specifically talking about suicide prevention. For example, one of our people is Moana Baker. I love this, she says. I don't have an attitude of acceptance or tolerance. I have an attitude of celebration and gratitude for the things our [00:34:00] youth bring us. It's incredible. It's extraordinary. It's otherworldly. It's beyond artistic, intellectual, physical, psychological, spiritual, sexual. I don't believe we have any conception of what's being lost when our young people are lost and that again just magic. And then the other thing when I say that people have attitude. Uh, Jennifer who, uh, [00:34:30] lives and has lived her whole life as a woman. Uh, one of her things. She goes, Hm. My bits might not be right, but I know who what I am. Uh, but one of her things she goes, Some people would say to me, You can't come on the like this I'd say, Are you telling me what I can do in my get real? And so the thing that says actually, we do belong here. You should not be mucking with us, uh, discrimination, homophobia, biphobia transphobia [00:35:00] that is actually really, really anti Maori and and therefore very much folded in with racism, and actually, we're not having it. Sort it out. This is interesting, because earlier on when you're talking about your approaches in doing HLR Well, well, I think it sounds like it's, you know, at the bottom line. In fact, there's time for being [00:35:30] inclusive and nice with people. And then there are other times when you just have to say it. Yeah, and I think there's certain ways to say it. We'll always say Sort it out. Um, we'll help you sort it out. We'll give you support. We we commit to having relationships and maintaining that contact. Bottom line always, always is. Oh, yeah, you're sorting it out. So you're working a lot with young people at the moment? Yes, there [00:36:00] was a I've been self-employed, uh, for a long time, Nearly 15 years doing treaty work, treaty relations, strategic development and project management. Uh, because I just found it easier to do my activism work without a full time job, and but I needed to create some bits of income. Uh, so I find that normally all the income I make goes on travel, and I was actually offered a role without the youth development, which [00:36:30] I did in 2008, 2009 and we had already been involved in, uh, Queer Youth National was held in 2007 and had been invited to come along and do some training. I actually developed my first youth group guidelines for people to say OK, how do you make your groups more inclusive? Uh, what are things to think about in terms of treaty And so But by the time I had the role, then I was organ. I ended [00:37:00] up organising 09. And so through that we travelled nationally got to know all the youth groups, and I guess from that point then I maintained relationships with lots of young people, different groups. And I guess I mentor, um, particularly leaders of those groups. And when there's so few of us and and even though we can organise nationally and we can do things, there's not specific groups in every centre. [00:37:30] Uh, and we wanted to be a place that people could come get advice, not have it. There are no stupid questions. And to feel safe that we can talk about these treaty things talk about and how it applies in their group and their organisation, uh, and develop and maintain their relationship. So for them as individuals, as they're working out their leadership and and what that is they want to be and do in the world. Uh, but also as their organisations how do we model actual [00:38:00] treaty relationships? What does that mean when you come to work in every day? And so I've been Yeah, really excited to do that, to be around for that, Um, And again, if we're not I think my two favourite saints Yeah, if not to change the world, why do we get up? And, uh, if we're not going to look after our young people, what are we here for? Um, you were talking earlier about, uh, young people as [00:38:30] leaders. Um, and that's that's something that I agree with with, too. When When I when I see the amazing young people around who some other people talk kind of call them emerging leaders or, you know, they they'll be a great leader. One day they will take over when we leave. Leave off that kind of craziness because it's I actually know the leaders beside us. Uh, And I think at the honours, when we had the Wellington honours the first [00:39:00] ones that you helped organise and lead that in February of this of 2015. And yeah, someone had made that point earlier on that you'll take over from us, and it's like actually, we are all working together. They are doing their thing as we were doing when we were young. Uh, we're doing our thing. And so, uh, actually, our young people need to keep catching up with us. We we support what they do. They know what we're doing. So they support to the extent that they are, um, to do that. Uh, [00:39:30] I guess we just always need to remember our privilege that we have as we grow older. Um, most of us do know. Do remember what it was like getting crap at school, not being safe, holding your partner's hand as you walk down the street. Uh, we had those lives. Uh, but now we own cars. We can drive to where we need to go. Most of us have had jobs. Some of us own houses. We are way better off than we were. We've gone many of us will have had depression. Many of us [00:40:00] have thought about suicide. Uh, we've grown through that. We have survived and we have continued to build with this with increasingly much more massive and organised rainbow communities. Uh, and networks, we have got to where we are. It is absolutely incumbent upon us to be looking out for and using every inch of privilege that we have to be to be there for and even if it's just to be on the other end of the phone that [00:40:30] they say, Can I get this person just to talk to you? And I think they'll really relate. Uh, it's not about always going and joining a group and doing whatever. We absolutely must use every inch of inch of privilege to support what they are doing and help look after them. One of the things I say in here and I believe it and I try to live it is that we want to be part of a movement that honours our ancestors, respects our elders. We we work closely [00:41:00] with our peers and we look after our young people, and we've seen to do that. We vocalise that at every opportunity because know what? We went through crap when we were younger. Uh, but the the issues that are facing our young people right now, they are like nothing that we we we have face to face that global phenomenon of young people coming out when they're young. We did not. That was not what any of us grew up in. That is happening now, and we must be. We must be around for that. So this booklet [00:41:30] is almost, um it's almost like you've come in a circle from those days in the eighties when you're having the conversations with and so on, that because the homosexual law reform is out there. It kind of gave that opportunity to to have that platform have those conversations. And now you've got this resource and the ones that you're building from here that can get hold of fairly readily. Yes, yes. And it's very much about we start the conversation. We know that it needs [00:42:00] to happen. We know what's happening out there. Kids getting kicked out of their homes are not feeling safe in their churches and in their schools. It is so it's not acceptable. And we can't wait around for some magic thing to happen or magic focus. It was really interesting when we for civil unions, much more dramatic. That caused a lot of conversations, especially with the, um shall not be named much that so there were. It was a different [00:42:30] environment by that That kind of broke the ice significantly on the whole idea about the same partner. Um, legalised contracts, uh, to to the marriage known as marriage equality, uh, and people. It was interesting. I got interviewed a couple of times about how much has changed for in the last two years because of marriage equality. And I had to say, Well, two years, not much. Uh, and actually that's not the big thing. That's, uh, [00:43:00] considering it from my point of view, tinkering with and and adjusting from civil unions to marriage. Awesome for those that that that's really important. Absolutely fantastic. Uh, for for the mindset, the mindset got absolutely, you know, blown with civil unions. And so that that has been a process since then. The marriage equality did not happen in and of itself. If we started with that, which, of course, everyone knew we were not going to win and which is why you know, all of those things All the [00:43:30] politics that were around all of that and absolute shout out to all the people who worked on that because that had to happen. Uh, but that is not where the big struggle happens for, uh, and and so it's been an interesting thing. And this resource, I guess, in is saying, actually, this is some of the core things is that when our have difficulty accepting us because of our gender or sexuality, we start losing their connection to our culture to our, [00:44:00] um, and then to our and who we are. And this is so fundamental. You start losing that connection, you start losing the sense of who you are, and then your sexuality and gender becomes the most important thing. And you need to protect that and and it just creates more and more disconnection from culture. And that's that is a really, really serious thing. And we see the impacts of that, Uh and yeah, this is just a way of saying, actually, we can do this. We can sort this. [00:44:30] It does not need to get ugly. We can just uh, just get going with it. Think have a think about it. And so yeah, that's what you hope for. That was, uh, that will answer a lot of questions in their minds and make them realise things that they had never thought of. That's certainly what I hope for it. And, you know, I speak a lot of I speak a lot of conferences here and overseas. Uh, we can print out thousands of these little booklets, and they can be in people's homes that I may never [00:45:00] meet. But I really, really hope that it meets a need and that it uh yeah, it speaks to people to what they need to hear in that moment, and it helps. Have you had a response to it? Yet? All the responses I've had so far have been positive. Uh, we're about to do the proper press release. It will be picked up a bit more around the country like this week. So then there were a couple of things, and part of the reason why I actually put my name [00:45:30] on it is I think there will be things in there that will be controversial and having come into the academic world to do the PhD. I've started to recognise some stuff about ownership of ideas, and that's why I put my name on it. A lot of these things have not been said before and it's like, OK, it's actually Elizabeth's thoughts Elizabeth's ideas and Elizabeth's politics. So I put my name on it as it's a thing. It's like actually, that's my stuff. But also it's like I stand behind that and I'm really pleased that my organisation [00:46:00] with trust and the Mental Health Foundation are prepared to stand behind me as well. You know, I have to ask now what? What controversial things you're thinking of in there? OK, so I think that some people who maybe are a little bit religious are going to have a problem with the fact that I say that we all inherit our sexuality and gender from our ancestors and that it's part of our, uh, Some Maori leaders have been quoted nationally [00:46:30] as saying that we didn't exist before and I'm just reminding people that actually we did. There's a lot of evidence of that. There's not a lot of Maori narratives because we know things were removed and changed. We have evidence of that. But we absolutely, categorically did exist, uh, before colonisation absolutely before colonisation. And so there's some things like that where I'm not going to go on and know about it. It's just true. [00:47:00] So you have no evidence that it's false? I have evidence that it's true. So yeah, I'm just going to say so. I think those, uh, even things like I say, being does not foster depression and suicide discrimination does, because people will take statistics that say, Oh, look, if you're a rainbow young person, you're more likely to be this this, this and this. Actually, it's not being the Rainbow person that makes you that thing. It's the impact of all the crap that you get [00:47:30] that makes you sad that leads to depression. Self-harm, uh, one of the things I talk about I say that discrimination in the form of transphobia biphobia homophobia hurts all of our, uh, the pressure on, for example, um, young women to prove that they're heterosexual, that our young lesbian or same sex and both sex attracted girls have got high rates of unwanted pregnancy. Uh, those in and [00:48:00] unwanted sex, for that matter trying to prove something. Our boys trying to prove that they're macho, They're real men, real woman. And and so I think there's a lot of those kinds of things I don't imagine. It's a huge going to be a huge issue for some, but for some people it's going to be really significant. They're going to have a massive issue with that like that with a big bring it on, bring it on because we need to have the conversation. Elizabeth, [00:48:30] There's so many things that we could talk about looking at this this list and there's so many things I want to ask you about more, Um, but I think it's good to wrap up what we're talking about. I think, um, so is there anything that you you feel that you want to add? I. I guess I want to look going forward. I know a lot of us who have been involved in political things, so I've been an activist now for 35 years and so [00:49:00] I've read some things. I've been an absolute follower and others, and I've learned so much and worked with incredible people and moving forward, and I guess if we're thinking about this. The significance. It was a homosexual law. Reform here and overseas is what things do we need to look to the future to achieve. And so one of the things that I want to lead and drive, uh, through to is a national rainbow strategy that looks across all of these different sectors [00:49:30] around education, health, suicide, prevention, everything. We're involved with violence, but also the arts performance. All the things that we're we contribute to this world, Uh, that we say, right, What are the priorities? What are the priorities across our agendas and our sexualities across our cultural identities? What are the priorities for us And to blend that all together into a strategy? So when government finds little pockets of money, uh, or wants to do something that [00:50:00] we can actually say, You know what? These are the key priorities right now, and they could say, Hm, we'd rather fund this and we go. You know what? These are the priorities, as has been agreed by most groups in this country by people who do this work, uh, by the experts in this field. These are the priorities, and we work as a country towards creating all of that. And so for those who I am a suspended lesbian fe, I have a certain lived experience, [00:50:30] however, in a leadership role. And, um for I have to know what is going on for people across every other identity and as someone who works nationally in our country. And the way I want to always model is I need to know what's going on for other cultures and other people and in different fields, other than the ones that I particularly have knowledge. And and so I see that a strategy is one way that we can coordinate our effort across the country. But it's also a way that we can tap into [00:51:00] our elders and all of the amazing resource of people who were working for us years and years ago who aren't involved in organisations just no, we still value you. We we we honour the work that you have done, and maybe you might be available for a phone call every now and then, or if we're involved in something and your amazing expertise in this area come to a couple of and help teach all of us. Uh, those, I mean I just turned 50 this last month. Uh, so [00:51:30] it's great being when you're back in Gisborne and living there. So I'm still a generation younger than our eldest. So I can still hold on to that for a little while longer, even though there's, like, three or four after me already. Uh, but just a way of harnessing all of the energy and amazingness, uh, and skill and creativity that we have as a community have and across all of our communities, of course. Of course, there's not just one, and and [00:52:00] and but also some. It's really, really practical. So it says, Right, we've had these laws that have happened. What are other laws? Do we need to pass? And I'm looking at a 20 year plan. Uh, and so the young people in 20 years who aren't even born yet, uh, we need to be looking forward to say right, What's the next law? That absolutely must happen in this country for our people, for our communities. And if we have that as a clear priority, we need to know what policies we need to change and input into across [00:52:30] every single government department. I want to write that strategy. I want to lead that so that we I'll be in the next couple of years. I'm self funding this. And so we if money materialises to support that work awesome. Otherwise, um, we're just gonna go for it. Travel all over the country, talk to people. What what needs to happen? Uh, what are aspirations? And, of course, inside of that will be a national strategy, because will be hosting the next, [00:53:00] uh, in 2017. And so we'll lead through into that as well, because he's OK. So when people get someone, gets an interview, interview, and go, what are the priorities for your community? We can go. Let me tell you what the strategy says. Well, the the mapping of every single rainbow organisation and group in this country, this is what they say. Yeah, this is my personal opinion, but actually, this is what our people say. That [00:53:30] that's something I want to produce. I'm very excited about that. Excited about seeing that, um Thank you, Elizabeth. Thanks. Thanks for all the things that you you do.
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