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I often feel sort of left out of things, not simply because I don't have to. I don't get the chance to express myself properly. I don't feel when I'm in class that I can be myself. I'm constantly thinking or constantly checking up myself to make sure I don't spill the beans. Being a queer educator [00:00:30] is like walking a tight rope all the time. Um, because you have to manage other people's insecurities about sexuality. And it might be insecurities about their own sexuality or their insecurities about their interrelationships and interactions with you as a queer educator. And so you are always running a sort of, um, meta cognitive type, um, discourse in your head to manage every situation. And [00:01:00] that sort of thing, um, came out very strongly with the young men that I interviewed in. My thesis is that from the time that they were 13 or 14, even younger for some of them between 10 and 12, they realised that their sexuality was transgressing some idea of normal and that they were on the wrong side of that. That idea of normal and they developed these these ways of managing through talking it through in their own heads. And that was all their private knowledge. They kept all [00:01:30] of that to themselves and keeping that sort of knowledge private and splitting it to a public persona that isn't connected to it is emotionally, um, devastating, I guess. Yeah. When when I was 13, I tried to kill myself. Mhm. Like I've known from when I was about 11, 12 years old. One day [00:02:00] I just cried and cried and cried for hours as this as a mhm. I guess it was because, well, I remember it was because, um there's a guy that I liked and I had a crush on, and I see Well, so So I said I couldn't like, say, Tell anyone or thing which was [00:02:30] really bad. And then when I was 13, um, I actually knew I knew that I was gay and I was really depressed and tried to kill myself. Um, I'd like to think that I'll identify myself as a teacher who happens to be gay, just like a teacher who [00:03:00] happens to be married or a teacher who happens to be heterosexual and single. Um, so, yeah, I. I definitely would like to think that I will be a good role model, um, for gay people, because I certainly wish that I'd had one a gay teacher when I was at school. That was out, and that I could relate to that would have been really beneficial to me. So I would definitely make every opportunity to to to sort of be out in a positive way. Um, in the school? [00:03:30] Definitely. Because, um, it's just so important that that that people are out. Um, particularly when you're dealing with young people. So I've got some decent role models to look up to. Um, I trained as a secondary school teacher at Christchurch in 1984 and I was about 21 I think. Yeah, 21 at the time, Um, and then started at college in 1985 which was the beginnings [00:04:00] of the heated debate in the law reform. And I didn't come out to my students. Um, at first, I, um I ended up being on the front cover of pink triangle for a massage centrefold and the pink triangle, um, magazine itself happened to be exhibited at the Wellington Trade Fair, and it was one of those trade fairs where everybody who visited [00:04:30] it had to go past every single store. And the second point was at that trade fair. There was a huge argument because the gay community had got a stand there that it had misrepresented itself to get and not told the organisers that they were a gay stand. And when it arrived and they set it up, there was a huge outcry to try and get it taken down. And I remember turning around in the May school holidays and looking at today tonight and, um, the debate was, um, being interviewed on there and my face [00:05:00] on the magazine flashed up on National TV or regional TV. I guess it was at that stage like I remember dropping the dinner plate and thinking, Oh, God, this is going to have major implications for me when I go back to school. Um, and of course it did, Um and what's what's now? I can look back quite fondly on, um, but at the time was really rather traumatic. And, um, the students reacted in very different ways. Um, the [00:05:30] students, which I taught, um, didn't really seem to have a problem. My sixth form did they didn't talk to me for three weeks, which made teaching them very difficult, but they eventually sort of came around and and we got on at the younger forms. Um, just used it as as a way of being able to abuse me and challenge the discipline in the classroom and around the grounds. And, um, I could manage some form of control in my classroom, but [00:06:00] I had to sort of put up with daily abuse, Um, from students, which I didn't teach from around the grounds. Um, calling out at Homo. Don't bend over now. Here comes Mr Town type stuff. And, um, that was very difficult because you feel very isolated in your school and and you, um, as a gay teacher, and you often don't feel that you can utilise the channels of discipline that might operate within a school because nobody in a leadership [00:06:30] position has ever stood up and said, This sort of behaviour is not OK. You know, it's not OK to abuse somebody because of their sexuality. And so you tended to try and or I did I. I tried to deal with it on my own, and, um, that probably wasn't the most or the best way of managing that. You know, I pretended that everything was fine in my classroom and around the grounds and so forth, and it sort of raised another issue. I also thought that by coming out in the school that suddenly there'd be lots of young, gay male students who [00:07:00] would come running up to me for support and help. And, you know, I could do the positive gay role model thing, and, um, from a distance, maybe I achieved that. But I don't know who those gay students were. It was never safe enough for them to approach me. And if they were seen with me, it was guilt by association. And then they were at risk. In the school environment themselves, the most difficult thing about being at school is hiding it. It's just it can be really tough sometimes, and [00:07:30] you also encounter a lot of homophobia and people not using the word faggot or queer or gay and not really thinking about using the term. And you can't say, Don't say that. It's not sort of PC to say that sort of thing, because you you're out yourself and you'll and people will mock you. And it's not nice being mocked, I think. I think the big biggest issues that gay people face [00:08:00] in education is is is having a voice and being included in in everyday discussion and activities. Um, so when When, Um, teachers are teaching subjects, Um particularly, like, say, in the health area where they're talking about relationships and marriage and and sex that they include, um, gay people as well, instead of it being a boy girl thing the whole time. Um, like in history lessons, if they if [00:08:30] they mention famous people in history that that were gay Um, just as they mentioned famous people in history that were were straight or you know, which comes about when they are, that they were married or when they whatever. So I think including including the the valuable and interesting history we have on gay people and just making the curriculum far more inclusive of gay people as they are making it inclusive for people of other cultural backgrounds. There are plenty of support groups [00:09:00] in in Wellington, there are heaps, and I'm the only student at Wellington College who goes to any of these support groups the only student in a school of 1250 students. You can't tell me that one out of every 1250 people at this guy that's there are more than that in my school. But but [00:09:30] we don't they don't they don't put up any posters. They don't offer any support, they don't talk about it and and the the classes that they can. We have a health and fourth form, and homosexuality was not mentioned once by any teacher and that entire year, or it was a third of the year. The rest of the year we do, um, [00:10:00] craft work. But in that entire time, the teachers didn't mention being gay at all. And it's fourth form and people are at this age of drinking. They are having sex and they're struggling with their sexuality. And gay students need to to be able to reach out and be normal, because if you if you're different, you do shy away [00:10:30] from things and if you can't get acceptance and if you don't have other people who are like you around you, it's very difficult and it makes you more abnormal, I think some people must go through college and and we'll go through secondary school and that will struggle with your identity because they can't. They don't know anyone else who is like them, [00:11:00] and the only images they see are on television. And some of them, quite frankly, are not very accurate. Um, not all gay men prance around and dresses like they do in Priscilla, Queen of the desert. I mean, not all men are like that. Well, I I saw saw myself at school and also now as a stereotype breaker. Whereas most people think that well, a lot of people think that gay gay guys [00:11:30] are all feminine, carry handbags, dress up as girls clothing and so on. And like, I just won't be a part of that. And people will just see, uh, I'm like he's gay, but he's not feminine. And that just meant a lot to me because I don't I. I knew I wasn't feminine, and I didn't want people thinking that I was in lots of ways. I think it's more difficult how ironic. You know, we've We've got everybody telling [00:12:00] us we've got all that you ever asked for. You've got the homosexual law reform. You've got equal rights under the human rights legislation, and here I am saying, Well, actually, I think it's actually more difficult. One is because you're talking about young males who are, um, seeing lots of images of gay and lesbian people of transsexuals on TV as mayors. Um um, the hero parade, the Sydney Mardi Gras, Um, something like 57 American sitcoms that have all got gay [00:12:30] characters in them. So they are able to see who they are at a much younger age than I could and mastered in when I was growing up. And they also can see all of those possibilities. But at the same time, there's this lovely acceptance out there on the media screen and did it. Everybody's using the word faggot in their school ground. Everybody's beating up on everybody else because they're a, um nobody's sitting them down and talking [00:13:00] to them about homosexuality in terms of its social, its political implications, its context, its identity issues, um, and so they are still carrying it with them. But there's this enormous pressure that they need to identify who they are. And so you've got young gay males knowing at 10 and 11 and 12 that they're gay, which is the difference. I think from when I was going through school, you could delay it really easily until you're 18 or 19 or more easily. Perhaps. I mean, it's it's false to probably compare the experiences, [00:13:30] but it's very different coming out in the nineties, and and whereas people might think it's easier, there's more support. If I was still growing up in Masterton in the nineties, there's no change. It's no different from when I was there, and I think I mean, that's represented in in the fact that schools do not still broach these issues. When when homosexuality is talked about in schools, it's so often talked about within the sexual health curriculum and within [00:14:00] the, um within HIV AIDS education or STD S and oh yeah, and here's homosexuality, you know, In the interviews with the young men that I did, they spoke very strongly about the fact that they left school thinking that they were going to die of AIDS. That was that was the only future that they had, and they expressed that very strongly and so we need sexuality within the curriculum to come out of that context. It needs to be dealt with there, too, because [00:14:30] there are issues about safe sex. But issues of sexual identity are not about sexual behaviour, you know, and we need to start talking about those sorts of things. We don't talk about it much really in in class work. It's not sort of talked about it all, um, the only subject that it is talked about and as classical studies. And that's simply because Romans and Greeks were braving bisexuals. [00:15:00] They they slept with whoever they want wanted to. And and they did have a culture of of sleeping with people of the same sex. And they were. They were just liberated. They didn't have any of this. We're taught that they don't have any of the the Christian pretence, the the whole thing, that sex is a sacred act, and it must be for procreation and that [00:15:30] sex is sinful and we it's discussed in class. We don't, um that that that that wasn't it was a non issue for them. It's and and I sort of agree it. It's, I think it's become too much of an issue in Western society I mean, there are gay people, and there are There are heterosexual people and there are bisexual people and there are transgender people. And there were [00:16:00] There were all sorts of people. So get over it. It's they're just people are they're no different to you. They just have different feelings and emotions being gay and being at Teachers College, I think, is a real advantage. Um, because I've had so much experience of being an unrecognised hated minority group and having to deal with having to deal with that, um, so I guess I'm I'm quite a a human rights activist now, I guess in terms of [00:16:30] just being aware of what other people are facing and and being totally inclusive for everybody um not making assumptions about anybody's background, identity or beliefs, values or experiences, and trying to treat everybody as equal and trying to, um help with, you know, building self esteem from everybody from all walks of life and making them realise that their experiences, whatever they are, are just as valid as anybody else's. [00:17:00] So being gay definitely gives me a big insight into into seeing all those things which I think if you're not gay or not from another cultural background having to fit into, um, some other sort of lifestyle or way of life. Then, um, you never get to face that. So it gives you an interesting outlook. OK? Well, back when I was in sixth form, I was a I was a young I was the youngest [00:17:30] in my form by quite a quite a few months ago. I am. I was getting hassles in class, not about being gay, but just hassles in general. So I went to the guidance counsellor and I really, really depressed and that and had a talk to the guidance counsellor about how I'd been depressed all through all through the summer. I just [00:18:00] like all all through the school holidays. I just slept, slept for about two or three in the afternoon every day. Didn't Yeah, just just depressed in general, right through the through through the holidays. Then at school, I just really depressed. I was getting hassled, So I went to the guidance counsellor and told it. It took me a while to tell him, but I ended up telling him that I wasn't completely straight like I. I told him that [00:18:30] I that I liked girls. But I also liked guys at first because like, it was easier to say that than to just say, I'm I'm gay. Yeah, And he got in contact with with the gay switchboard, and I ended up going to icebreakers. It all happened really quickly. Actually, it was like the Thursday and then the Friday I was I was at icebreakers and I was a bit I was a bit young for for that, but they made an exception, which was really good. I don't [00:19:00] know what I would I would have done if if they had hadn't, uh I When I when I told my my friend about about me being gay, sort of hunted, hinted too to him about it before I told him completely. And then I've I actually told him an English class went and David and he he was OK [00:19:30] with that. And then we had long, long talks about it and that which I can and then my my other friends, I I I told told about it so that they wouldn't hear it through rumours like I found it was better for me to tell them directly than for them to hear a rumour and then come and ask me and all my friends took it. Took it well, yes. No problems. [00:20:00] Yeah. When I told my mom that I was gay I I went sort of went into her room and sat down and we had a talk and I said, Oh, I've got something to tell you And I. I told her that I was that I was gay and she just didn't say anything, which I found really, really scary. And then I sort of I actually started crying because, [00:20:30] like, she just said no reaction or anything didn't say anything. And then and then I was just so annoyed for my for my mum that I just just left left home for the day and came came back later in the night. She sit down with me and see Oh, oh, they're all old and lonely and full of diseases, and I want, and then I don't want to live like that and all that. All that sort of [00:21:00] rubbish and yeah, I just thought Well, thank thanks, Mum, This is me you're talking about. And since since then she's got she's had 44 years to get used to it now, which was pretty cool. I actually went up to the to the hero parade last last weekend, and she actually said to me before the day before I went up. I have a good time up there, which [00:21:30] I thought was really cool. It's very unusual for women to say something like that. I have no idea how I'm gonna handle gay students. Um, when I when I go into schools, I'd probably be very nervous, and it would just just be quite scary to begin with, Um because I I'm quite aware of, you know, if I'm sort of out there as a as a gay role model, then it's quite likely that [00:22:00] that I'll have students come up to me and say, Say, like, I'm gay and I don't know what to do or I'm gay and whatever, Whatever. Um, so I guess III I realise I have to be very careful about what you do do. Um, like, we've been given instructions that we never even allowed to be, um, in a classroom alone with one other student? Um, yeah, we have to. As teachers, we have to be very, very careful about, um yeah, personal [00:22:30] dealings with students. So it will be quite a tricky balance to act. Um, but no doubt I'll I'll learn as I go and and hopefully, um, hopefully it will work good. I think there's an advantage to gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender students to see out gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender teachers. Um, and it took me a while to realise that even though gay students gay male students didn't approach me while I was teaching while I was out, they knew I was [00:23:00] there. And knowing somebody is there and knowing somebody is, um, bouncing around being relatively cheerful and happy and being I hate using the word normal, but, um, is is a really has a really positive effect. It shows that you can live into adulthood, and one of the big issues in New Zealand is youth suicide. And, um, for many gay young gay men, they can't see that they can live into adulthood and be happy. And so, for some, for kids to see [00:23:30] that in school was really powerful and positive. It also sort of raises, um, issues, I guess, about, um, the idea of normalisation. What so many gay and lesbian teachers do is appear to be as normal as possible. Um, and I have a problem with that in some ways because I think that the the idea of normal and that the lack of our school's [00:24:00] ability to manage difference of any sort is is crucial here. And so, like, I could get away being a gay teacher because, you know, I wore trousers. I dyed my hair occasionally, and I had my ears pierced. But, um, I I wasn't overtly camp or effeminate. And, um, although and so there is still with the gay stuff that's coming out now, a total problem [00:24:30] with overt, um, or with the the stuff that confounds gender. Um, I've I've been corresponding with a, um a young boy from the South Island who, um, had real transgender issues, and he was basically almost killed by his peer group. He was physically pushed out in front of traffic. Um, and downstairs, um, because he wants to transgender, [00:25:00] you know, he's 14. He was 14 when he was first having those feelings, and he ended up being home schooled for the rest of secondary schooling. Um, and those transgender feelings are still with him. My question is, why do we have to make, um, why are our schools not able to make themselves safe for students like that? Or, you know, why can those differences not be tolerated? [00:25:30] I definitely think I will end up going out of my way to actively promote, um, gay issues. It's almost an addiction. I have, I guess, Um, I just can't help myself. Every time I see some anti gay letter in the letters to the editor, I'll be writing in a reply. Um oh, I. I think it'll be a wonderful opportunity to to to promote, um, inclusiveness and a better understanding of gay people because we're, you know, we're still fighting a battle, [00:26:00] and the more people that fight the battle, you know, the more we can achieve. And I think education and young people is a good place to start, particularly from my experience, um, working with gay people through icebreakers, as it's those people that need the help the most. And they're not actually getting it because they're the ones that face the suicidal thoughts and the depression and all these other issues when they're already going through a million and one changes through adolescence. So to me, they're they're the most critical people to educate, particularly [00:26:30] the young people who who have same sex feelings because they are the they are the people in need as I see it.
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