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E te timatanga ko te kore, ko te pona, te pō kāputa, ko te kūkune, ko te pūpuke, ko te hihiri, ko te māhara, ko te manako. Kāputa i te wai ao, i te ao marama, tihei, mauri ora. Wāhia rā te urutapu nuitanga o i o matua kore, e te wahi ngaro. Kā tūfera tia kia Ranginui, kia Tāmaua, kia Papatūānuku, kia Tauāwhia, te tipu ai whakaata mai nei. Honoa rā te ira tangata, [00:00:30] ira atua, whakahokia te ngāo te whātumanoa ki te opu o te whenua. Hei muramura toha ki te whaeao, ki te ao marama, mā tu turuwhiti whakamaua, kia tīna, tīna, haumi e hui e tāiki. Tēnei te arorangi nui e tū akenei, tēnei te aro o papatūānuku e takoto nei. Tēnei te arorangi rau a ko papa e takoto nei, kia rarau te tapu ki raro.[00:01:00] E ngā mate o te rā o te mārama o te [00:01:30] tāunga mate e pikau nei i a tātou, ka mihia, ka tangia, ka poroporoakitia. No reira, e ngā tini mate, haere, haere, haere atu rā. E ngā hau e whā, e ngā mata o waka, a ngā waiwai tapu, tēnā anō rā koutou. Nā nau mai, haere mai, koana te ngākau, kia tāi mai koutou ki te kaupapa nui o te rā. Ko te kaupapa a mana takatāpui. Takatāpuitanga. Te [00:02:00] kārere a tā mātou tua. Piki ake kake ake whakatau mai. Kua tā tū nei koutou ki runga i te reo karanga o te ata. Nō reira haere mai, nau mai, whakatau mai rā. Whakatau mai rā i te whare o te Puna Mātauranga o Aotearoa i tū mai nei. A tīnana kei konei, Te hunga kei runga i pūrangi, Puta noa i te whenua, I ngā pūkōrero o te paiwhiri, Ko tō mātou tua, Tēnā koe.[00:02:30] E te awe kōtuku, tēnā koe. E mihi ana ki tō mahi nui o te whānau a takatāpuhi. Kei te whakāwehāhia mātou i te kākano i whakatōhia e koe i ngā wā rereke. Kā tātou e kite nei i awhina i te tini mai i tērā wā. E te tua e Kevin, kua rongo au ki tētahi whakatauki e tōtōhia. E koe e te whare paremata kei the Rainbow Room.[00:03:00] Tōku reo, tōku oho oho, mauria. A e hono ana tō tātou iwi ki tērā o te tini. Miharo. Tēnā rā koe e hoki e te tua e Lynn. Ka tāi mai te mōhiotanga o tō tātou tīpuna nā Rongomātāne. Ko te mātauranga o te mahi whakaora. Tēnā koe. Tēnā koe e kare. E Cassie, kia tau mai i te hāpori a tātou mokopuna, ngā [00:03:30] taiohi me ngā rangatahi o te whānau nei. Tēnā koe e te tūahine. Kātahi ki tōku whanaunga, tōku hoa mahi ōmua. Ka mihi anō ki a koe i kona i tēnei wahi, ara ko Fiona. Ka mihi atu ki a koe. Ka puta aku mihi ki ngā kai mahi kātoa.[00:04:00] Nō reira i te iwi, mauri tū, mauri ora, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā ao, anō rā koutou katoa kahuri.[00:04:30] Ka oti, ka oti ngā mahi e. Haere mai e te iwi ki a Piritaua, Kia kite atu ai ngā [00:05:00] kupu whakairi e. E nēna wāriu![00:05:30] Kia ora tatou. Tēnā tatou, tēnā koutou i te iwi, Te Puna Matauranga o Aotearoa. Mo tō mihi mai kia mātanga, ngā takatāpui kua kua hui hui mai i tēnei wā, [00:06:00] ki ngā puna kōrero kua tāi mai nei i tēnei wā, Tēnā tatou. Tēnē rā te mihi ki a koutou. Ko koutou nā te pōhiri, ko tāimai mātou. I runga i te kaupapu o te rā, e pā ana ki te hunga tangataapui. No reira, tēnā koutou. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou. Me te mihi atu ano hoki, āe, e tika [00:06:30] ana ki a rātou mā, ki a rātou mā kua whetūrangitia. He kore rā tau. e warewaretia. Ina waa katoa. No reira, ina mate, haere, haere haere. Haere ki te moingaroa, ki te pōwhiriuri, haere. No reira, kāre e roa te kōrero, te mea nui ko tāmai, me te mihi [00:07:00] atu ki a kātou mō te whakatau ki a mātou ko tāmai nei. Well.[00:07:30] Ki te hau kainga, nō rei Te ātiawa, Taranaki whānau, tēnei rā te mihi. Nēi rā mātau, kō tāumai, i rengu o koutou nei manaakitanga, nō reira tēnā koutou. Tērā pēa, kā mutu ngā mihi inaia nei. Kā hoki anō, [00:08:00] whaimuri i ngā waiata. Tautoko. e haere ake nei i tēnei wā. Tēnei wāiata, ēnei wāiata, nō te roopu a Te Whanau Whanau. Ah, nō reira Chanel, tēnā koe, tēnā koutou e te whānau.[00:08:30] [00:09:00] It's I'm not the way, not the now, not the way I am, it's I'm not the [00:09:30] way. Oh, God. Step forward. Okay, you're up. You're up.[00:10:00] [00:10:30] [00:11:00] [00:11:30] Ka kite, ka kite, eh, ka kite, eh, ka kite, Ko Ke Ao Mau, Ki Aro! Tēnā koutou katoa. [00:12:00] E tikaanga te mahi tahi, me te mahi aroha. Tēnā koutou katoa. Okay. Kia ora te whanau. And thank you, National Library, for a warm welcome. We're really pleased to see so many people here in the whare, especially because Wellington is freezing today. How cold is it? [00:12:30] Yeah, it's cold. It is below 10 degrees. So for all of those who are in the house, we thank you for making the time to come out today. Um, in this moment, I also want to say thank you to Kevin, who is on the screen looking handsome. And it doesn't add even 10 kgs on this man. So thank you, Kevin. Um, also my accolades to Tiwhanawhana. Coming out in my days, these women held my hand, [00:13:00] looked after me, and created a community that I felt safe in. Inclusive. So it's funny how full circles come around, and I find myself back in the spaces of our sisterhood. So thank you. Um, performing up here is not easy, just being up here is not easy, but these experts are going to show you how easy it is. So, um, just before we launch into today, the event falls into two kind of areas. [00:13:30] Um, gay liberation, which Te Awe Kotuku. You're going to share some great stories with us there. Um, and then we're going to look at what that looks like in current environment. We also have questions in the webinar, so if you're joining us online, tap your questions in. I'm not promising that all questions will be answered or, or relayed, but um, if you are in our audience here in the whare, raise your hands and we'll see how [00:14:00] that goes. We're going to be organic. In our delivery today, so where the conversation takes us is where we're going to go. If it goes to an unsafe place, because this is a very safe place, we're just going to say our safe word, which is purple pants, and we're going to stop the conversation. We'll just redirect it. Hopefully no one has purple pants on today, but I'll make you stand up. But that's not really keeping you that safe, is it? Um, so, without further ado, we're going to go first to the man on the screen, [00:14:30] Kevin, to do an introduction of yourself. Thank you, Kevin. Kia ora. Kia ora, Fi. Kia ora, Ngahuia. Kia ora, Lynne. Kia ora, Cassie. It's my honour, really, to be speaking, um At this, uh, particular forum, and I guess if there are any messages that I wanted to, to have a kōrero about, was really just questioning the, um, [00:15:00] you know, I think the, the brief was how I've Taka Tāpui paved the way for, for gay liberation, and of course, typically I looked at, uh, what the impact of gay liberation means, today, in my, uh, through my lens, and I'm thinking, oh, perhaps Takatāpui paved the way for, for gay liberation by just being who we are, [00:15:30] just being, knowing who we are, knowing who, uh, our whānau are, knowing our whakapapa, knowing the ways of our world, because, in my view, uh, I don't know. I don't know. Gay liberation was basically catching up with where we ought to have been. And so there, uh, there were issues that of course affected, uh, Takatāpui, and I think through my lens [00:16:00] at the moment, it was an opportunity to leverage that opportunity, to declare who we were, but also that we are Māori, and inextricably linked to being Māori. So, you know, that was, for me, uh, Did we pave the way for gay liberation? I'm thinking perhaps gay liberation had an opportunity to catch up with the world as it has always been for us as Māori. So, um, that was something I thought [00:16:30] about, uh, quite succinctly in terms of how we have, uh, are today. Again, I think just being who we are, but we've had to create spaces also, um, to enable our community to build, to enable us to recognize ourselves. We've had some really, uh, challenging experiences. And I'm just a newbie on the block, really, uh, but the ones that I [00:17:00] do remember, particularly around the Destiny Church March, uh, caused me to think about how that was challenging, uh, myself as an individual, Takatāpui, and what that was saying about me as Māori, or what People might have been seeing about me as Māori, and so, you know, I wrote a song in response to that called He Hau, which, in the first instance, was to highlight that we were in [00:17:30] every part of our society and every part of our culture. Whether we were speakers, whether we were singers, artists, we carried all the memories. We were, whether we were sentries, you know, we were, we were everywhere. Uh, and so, to me, I was trying to, I guess, reflect to, back to myself that, yes, we're a valued part of our community, and we need to be reminded about that, so that we don't get, uh, [00:18:00] you know, caught up in, in the vitriolic of the day, which was trying to isolate and attack, uh, people of, of, uh, Varied sexual orientations, the way we might express our gender, the way that we might identify ourselves within our gender, and even, you know, that our sexual characteristics are all, uh, not necessarily [00:18:30] exactly the same. That type of thing. So, being part of Te Whanau Whanau who has, uh, who provided some whanau, you know, that was an opportunity for us to create spaces to build community. Takatāpui community, our wider links to our rainbow communities, our wider links to our Māori communities, all those sorts of things, and to be able to tell our own stories. So for me, those are some of [00:19:00] the ways that I think we have taken advantage of what gay liberation, so to speak, brought about. But to me, it was also about being Māori and being Takatāpui. So I, I throw that in there as a, as a bit of a, my speak, you know, te whanawhana comes from this uh, kōrero called te whanawhana a he kahukura i te rangi. And the way that I've [00:19:30] always, um, understood that phrase was that a rainbow was forming in the sky. And so for me, the sky represented the whole of humanity and that uh, te whanawhana a he kahukura i te rangi was. about us as Takatāpui coming to claim our place within society, as equal members of society. And that's how I saw also what gay liberation was possibly about, as equal members [00:20:00] of society, free in our sexual orientation, free to be who we are. But the difference is, I think, as Takatāpui, and being Māori, we also understood As Maori, our collective responsibilities, uh, and our connection to AU to , all of those things that are very important for our wellbeing.[00:20:30] Kia ora, Kevin. Um, such a beautiful introduction into our kōrero today. Also about Te Whanau Whanau and the spectrum. Isn't it interesting how the spectrum is used for lots of terms today? But if you live in Pōneke and you want to join Kapa Haka, well, join Te Whanau Whanau. It's on every Monday night, 6 Thursday, uh, 6. 30. Uh, they have a webpage, so. Click the [00:21:00] link, join, join this group, be inclusive, learn our waiata, and be invited to gigs like this. I am going to hand over the rākau, well the mic rākau, to Cassie. Kia ora tātou, um, Tēnā koe, Nate, mō tō karakia me te mihi.[00:21:30] National Library. Um. Ko wai au? I te taha tōku papa no Ingarani, no Kotorani, no Italia a hau. I te taha o tōku mama ko Tararua te maunga, ko [00:22:00] Hoki o te awa, ko Tainui te waka, ko Ngāti Raukawa ki te Tonga te iwi, ko Ngāti Pari Raukawa te hapū, ko ngā tokowaru te marae. I te taha o tōku mama ko[00:22:30] Uh. My name is Cassie and, um, I, I, I whakapapa to a few different places and just acknowledging my, um, many families that bring me here and, and to the people who've created this event. It's a real joy to be able to sit here. I think if Kevin is a baby, then I don't know what that makes me. Um, so I'm feeling like, like have I even been conceived [00:23:00] yet, um, at this point, um, and, and I guess, I just, Kevin man, like you always just go straight to the heart, to the ngākau of the kōrero, like just right there and, and bringing it forward and revealing about what this is all about and, and so. I guess in response to that, what I want to say is that, uh, you know, if it weren't for the people who were in this room, on this [00:23:30] call, um, opening our waiata, if it wasn't for the people here, well, I certainly wouldn't be in this room. Um, to me The, the kupu takataapui has always meant more than this kind of Pākehā idea of, you know, oh, we, we, we are who we are. We, we choose who we love or, or our identity in this very kind of narrow sense. Takatāpui has always been more than that for me. It has been about [00:24:00] whakapapa. And it is about whakapapa who, yes, you come from, but it's also the people who, who nourish you, and feed you, and look after you. Like, Fi, what you were talking about before, most certainly people like Kevin. And people like Chanel and Renee who are here at the front. Um, if it wasn't for them looking after me when I was a young one in, in Te Whanganui a Tara, I wouldn't be here. And so, uh, Takatāpui has always been about the collective. It's about bigger than just us, um, as [00:24:30] individuals. It goes, um, beyond space and time. It stretches into the past, into the present, but also into the future as well, because I think we often don't talk about how Takatāpui also form our own whakapapa families. And so, yeah, I, I'm, I'm proud to have, I guess, received, um, this, this tradition, this kōrero, that was never, um, offered. It was, It was reclaimed, it was taken, [00:25:00] it was, it was, um, held onto, it was resisted, it was, I mean, the, the picture before of Te Awa Kotuku, just the, the fierceness in your eyes in that picture, it's, it's, um, it's that, it is that, and so I just want to mihi to everyone here who has been a part of, of keeping takatāpui alive as it is today. Kia ora. And this is why she is on that panel. Isn't she lit? I mean, [00:25:30] you bring us full circle, even though you are the youngest on this panel. So, kia ora. We speak about freedom. That's what Kevin spoke about, Cassie. It's all about freedom, freedom to be who you are. I'm going to hand the rākau over to Lynn. Tēnā rā koutou katoa. Tēnā koutou katoa. Tēnā koutou katoa. Tēnā koutou katoa. Tēnā koutou katoa. Uh, tēnā rā koutou, um, [00:26:00] ki ngā kaiwhakahauri, um, tēnā koroa, tēnā koutou, ki te whānau o te whanawhana, a ka nui te mi aroha ki a koutou, ngā tāngata, ka nui te mi aroha, um, ki aku hoomā, tēnā rā koutou katoa, uh, ko wai au, kia. Uh, Huri tēnei o Kaitahu, Ngāti Kahungunu, Ngāti Porou. Um, [00:26:30] ki te Waipounamu, ko Ōraki te Mauka, ko Waitaki te Awa, Takitimi te Waka, ko Kaiterua, Hikihiki te Hapū, ko Ōtākau te Marae. Ki te Ika o Māui, uh, no Takapau taku pāpā. Um, uh, ko Rākau Tātahi taku marae. Um, Ko Ngāti Marau me ki kiri o te rangi, um, oku hapū. Uh, [00:27:00] Ko Lynn, tōku ingo. Ka huri au te reo Pākehāne. Ah, kia ora, kia ora kaitou. Uh, I'm not sure why Kevin started us off on that way and telling us he was the baby, because honestly, I have spent a couple of days, um, Moaning in Aue's ear that why am I on this panel? Like, I'm not sure what I have to say. So I thought I'd just [00:27:30] throw a whole lot of things out there to begin with. The reason I say that is because, as I've expressed, um, and as Cassie has already explained, I feel like I'm a recipient of the, I'm, I'm, I'm an end user. I'm one of the lucky ones who has been able to come through on the hard graft of people in this room. You know, the rangatira who've paved the way for us. I feel like I need to give some context [00:28:00] to that a little bit. Um, so I knew, I didn't know where to throw this in, so I'm just going to go straight with it. Straight. In my previous life. When the, um, homosexual law reform, uh, was being fought for, I worked in a scripture union bookshop. I know, right? You didn't know this, right, eh? And so now it's [00:28:30] coming out. I sold Bibles. I was really good at it. I knew, um, I knew every version of the Bible there was and you know, I was so good at it that, um, I had been able to take over the buying and selling of all the music because Christian music, man, I knew it back then. I also, this is the part that's scary. Oh God. I used to be in Salvation Army. I know that nobody really knows that. This is usually a party. [00:29:00] A party game, eh? Tell me one thing. Tell us three things about you that no one knows, and guess which one's a lie. No one ever picks that. But it's the truth. And it's part of my truth. And, um, you know, I describe myself these days as a storyteller. Um, and I'm really passionate about that because, you know, if we don't tell our stories, someone else will tell them for us, and if there's one thing that really, you know, gets me going is, is [00:29:30] when other people define me or define us and tell my story or tell our stories differently than, than how we know them to be. So that is part of my story, um, and yeah, that's part of my story. I am married to the most gorgeous woman from Te Atihaunui a Papārangi now, and I'm well aware of the The fact that I can sit here so casually and say I'm married to this beautiful wāhine [00:30:00] is, um, is, is, is a different story than what she and others tell. And I'll just share this one story before I go. Hand the mic over to you. On the night Oh no, on the two readings of the um, Marriage Amendment Act. Uh, we sat at home and we watched, and we're both bawling our eyes out, crying like babies, but [00:30:30] for very different reasons. And um, my privilege was very evident to me that night. So My darling turned to me with anger and said to me, What fucking right do you have to cry? And I was crying for the human rights, you know, the absolute wonder and, [00:31:00] oh, I was so freaking happy. But she said to me, what right do you have to cry? Because you haven't had to. you know, go through the shit, or lose the friends, or all that kind of stuff, or live a life and, and live a different life. And that's correct. So that is the reason why today I felt for all those skeletons that I, I don't think I've ever disclosed that publicly, just [00:31:30] so you know. But it's part of, it's part of my story. And as I say, storying. That's really important. Just one other, so my mahi is actually, I'm a researcher and my work is primarily in mental health, suicide, trauma based research, you know, the really ugly stuff that people, that we don't really like to talk about, which is another part of our collective story. And so that's kind of where I see my place in this world, [00:32:00] is making sure that our voices in those spaces are correctly. And, uh, on it. Yeah. Kia ora. Kia ora Lynn, who has just renamed the series, Eoho Confessions. Ladies and gentlemen, bring it on. This is what freedom and privilege allows us to do, is share, um, what those pioneers, have come for us. I [00:32:30] mean, who would have imagined in 1972, these words would have started this movement? Who out there is crazy enough to join me? Let's start gay liberation. Without further ado, I hand it over to you, Te Awe Kōtuku. E kura tō te ao, e nei te kura.[00:33:00] And, um. Kua mihi a ngā mihi, kua poroporo a kīngi a ngā poroporo a [00:33:30] kī. Hoia nō rā ki a koe, Nate, ngā mihi kauana mō tō hanga pakamoemiti ki ngā atua. Nō reira, ka mihi anō au ki a tātou katoa. Um, thank you to the National Library. And to these glorious women sitting at my side, ngā mihi kau ana ki a koutou. Kia koutou Tīwhanawhana, ngā mihi kau ana. Ah, kā pai, kā rāue kātoa. [00:34:00] Me tōku hoa, tū ngāne, tēnā koe. Kevin, ngā mihi kau ana. And to those of you out there, there are at least three who remember. 1970, 71, and the early days. And I actually think you should be up here with me. But then, he kōrero takatāpui tēnei. So we're talking now about our [00:34:30] experiences of that time. Um, most of you are probably aware of what happened when I won a fellowship to the USA in 1971. And around that time I was writing a lot and thinking a lot and, um, entangled in the sex, drugs, and rock and roll of the various activist movements of that time. So that Ngā Tamatoa was [00:35:00] conceived. Women's liberation was running hot, and of course, within that particular group, there was the fascination, the absolute erotic intrigue and sense of adventure with each other. And in the middle of all that, As a, um, young Māori raised in a relatively [00:35:30] traditional environment, um, I ended up in Auckland, and I was like that. I was camp. We Always looked for each other, but I was really conscious in the university context, I would never find one like myself. And so I ended up, and this is in the mid 60s, running with the Queens [00:36:00] and the Timber Girls and the women of that time. I fell in love with Natasha. And she loved me back. And I got into all sorts of very strange relationships. Situations, and as a result of that, as a writer, I was a compulsive writer, I recorded everything, and I'd noticed [00:36:30] stuff that was happening with my mates, and particularly, as a child growing up in a very tourist environment, with my uncles, with my uncles, with the men in the village, with various human beings, and Who impacted on my life in a really major way. Um, so I thought about why should we be [00:37:00] invisible? And being described as a stroppy show off, um, I wanted to make a noise about that. So I did. And, um, also though in those days, and this is something that people don't really think about now, because it's a totally different era, um, university study was funded. by government and all you had to do was [00:37:30] pass your exams and pass them well and then you got Your fees paid, and if you were extra good, you got a boarding allowance as well. And if you were a teacher's college student, you got a salary. Now this is another world, but it was the world of privilege in which we had the time and the energy. To get into political activism. We don't [00:38:00] have that now. The kids don't have that now, but we had it. So I think at that time too, we took the responsibility and we made a noise. And part of that was, um, applying for things like the USA Student Leader Grant, which I got, which I applied for and I got. And of course they found out I was the Maori girl writing all this absolutely scurrilous nonsense about being gay and proud and stuff, or actually [00:38:30] no. In, um, the beginning you saw on the screen, a paragraph from a, um, a piece I did for Crackham in July 1971, called Lesbianism, The Elegance of Unfettered Love. And it was a full two pages. A few months later, in, um, March, I interviewed Germaine Greer, and most of that was, [00:39:00] um, actually deleted. The printers wouldn't print it, but that's another story about Aotearoa and sexualities. Anyway, what I wanted to do today is just read you a story, rather than, um, talk about myself. And, it's a story that Um, came out, um, around the time I reprinted my book Tahiti. And [00:39:30] it's, um, I'll just read it, and it'll kind of, um, tell you about how I grew up, and who I grew up with, and where I grew up, and I didn't mark it, so I've got to fumble about sitting in the library, looking for a page, um, the name of the story, Is remembering them.[00:40:00] The last post floated over the water. Faint notes folding into the steam. Remembering them at dawn. Princess was supervising the cream cans. His real name was Pirirakon, but close relations. We called him Princess. Willowy, sleek, always fashionable. [00:40:30] Though this morning's outfit was more the working man. Gumboots, pressed jeans, and a bulky olive swan dry, hair smoothed down beneath its wood. Tiny sleepers twinkled in his earlobes. He examined the nine bottles of rum, six carubas, two plantations, a classic Captain Morgan. All donations, three for each can. The nephews, [00:41:00] Edu and Ra, heaped the large metal containers out of the concrete steam boxes and placed them on a low slat table in the kitchen. Their young arms bulged with effort, the liquid sloshed. The milk was scalding hot from 15 minutes in the thermal steam box. Perfect. Edu had the valves exactly set right. Princess, both hands wrapped in old tea towels, [00:41:30] carefully removed the first lid, then peeled the protective cloth off his fingers. Whiteness bubbled and hissed, then settled as he poured two bottles of bushels coffee and chicory with a swift precision. Eru, a sturdy youth, folded the mix with a long wooden paddle, breathing in the fierce fumes when his Auntie Uncle emptied the rum into the gaping [00:42:00] metal mouth and took the stirrer from him. Strong, bronze, sinewy hands blended the rich, aromatic liquid. They repeated the process two more times, refastening each lid. The cans were set together in a straight line, ready for the coffee pots and the small kettles. Ra had wandered off. Edu stayed and watched. Most days, she's my [00:42:30] auntie princess, but today he's my uncle, Pirirako. He whispered to himself, proud, doing the special coffee to warm the pickles up at the Anzac service after the PAH. It was still dark outside, heavy clouds hung close upon the surface of the Ruapeka, hiding the soldiers cemetery that hungered low in the shadows across the lagoon. [00:43:00] The activity had shifted in well disciplined and somber ranks to the marae. of Pata Te Huata. Tables outside, tables inside. Plates of crackers, cabin bread, cheese, trays of tiny bread, butter, gold and syrup. The big breakfast took place later at the cenotaph in town. This memorial was for the boys, for the ones who did not come [00:43:30] home in the 28th. This time it was for the pā to cry and to remember them. Light moved in thin lines of dawn through the vaporous dark, glimmered on male faces moist with memories. Around them moved the gentle bustle of wives, aunties, sisters, nieces, offering hot drinks, with or without, and princess. [00:44:00] Quiet smiles, a steady touch, a firm hand on a frail elbow. He positioned chairs and assisted the old in tottery. He found single gloves and donate tokotoko, woolly hats and lumpy knitted scarf. He was very busy. Uncle Tay was sitting alone at the end of a table, downing his third cup. He touched the fine bag, uh, the fine badge on the black [00:44:30] beret. He'd just, uh, finished rolling more smokes. He sat there. Tahuri knew all about him and he knew that each one of his wonderful medals told a special story. She wished she knew them all. She offered the crower another cup. He motioned her to sit and pass her the coffee pot to a niece working nearby. [00:45:00] He was watching Princess. The olive swandra had been removed to reveal a dark blue ribbed pullover with red and white stripes around the TV neck, or the v neck. He looked, it looked, very patriotic, and set off the scarlet poppy and its tiny white tag, matching the crisp shirt with one button undone at the collar. Shining patently, the [00:45:30] shoes had replaced the gumboots. Princess. Was enjoying herself, ordering the females about, issuing instructions, relishing his role as head waiter in training. He was in his second year at the elegant Waiweda House. Only five minutes walk from the Pa. He loved food. He loved people. He wanted to make them happy, to make them laugh. He [00:46:00] wanted them to need him. He flirted shamelessly with his aunties and his uncles. He worked at the younger boys and girls. He winked at them. He parted the glossy waves of hair down the middle and wing and smiled wickedly in all directions. He cocked a shapely eyebrow at Tahure. She cocked one back. Uncle Tei was watching him. [00:46:30] The old man seemed to be gazing behind Princess, peering into another place, another time. He looked slowly, thoughtfully, at Tahure. Eko, you know that boy, Pirirakal? I knew boys like him. Sissies, [00:47:00] we used to call them sissies. He paused, as Prince says, sauntered over to a nearby table, settled out more food and flicked the koro a rather saucy glance. Uncle Tei lowered his voice. You were lucky if you had one with you in your section or your platoon. They [00:47:30] were the best barbers. Woo, they did the neatest haircut, really good. Not short back and sides, oh no. But style, real style. And they were good field medics too. But niece, when everything around us was wrecked and mud, rubble, broken walls. Broken houses, broken roads, wrecked, blown up, everything falling down, trenches, [00:48:00] bomb craters, bullets flying, wrecked. They could find us a feed, anywhere, puha, wenoweno, nettles, beetroots, corn, turnips, vine leaves. One boy even scrunched us a lettuce, a lettuce. In the middle of the war they found it, kai. They found it, even on the hoof [00:48:30] or on the wing, they found it, and cook, ah, they could cook. Memories made him lick his dribbly chin, wipe the damp from his eyes. Concerned princess. Started hovering in the background. Marvelous they were. Tau kai. And niece. They could [00:49:00] fight. And they could kill. They had no fear of death. Or pain. They went straight in those sissies. No more bullets. Bayonets out. In they went. Those sissies always cleared the way, they had no fear. They were the real hero's girl, not us, [00:49:30] and most of them got left behind. He sighed, breath heavy, with grief. They never came back, I remember them. It was stories like that, and the ones that did come [00:50:00] back, and ended up in jail. That drove me into thinking about freedom for us. And even though I listen to my co panelists and think of how they perceive themselves as end users, [00:50:30] there is no end to this war. I think of Henare Te Ua. The Chloa, whom we all remember and revere, and the work he did, and in his biography, he said the fight will never end. Now, I don't want to be negative, but when we look around us, when we think about Roe versus Wade, [00:51:00] And how it took 50 years for them to flip that so easily. We must never take stuff for granted. So you're not end users. You're warriors, and the battle will continue. But now Because it's 22, 20, 22, we fight this battle with joy, because we have tasted that [00:51:30] freedom. We have enjoyed the privilege of civil union. We have changed our passports. We have been able to marry each other. And, um, so it's from, I think, a much stronger position. We continue the fight, [00:52:00] but until every one of us is safe. The fight will continue. I think of kids living in the rural areas in the regions and how vulnerable they are and is their only choice to come to the metropolitan cities. What future is there for them? Hoia nō rā, e te whānau, ngā [00:52:30] mihikau ana ki a koutou. Thank you. Kia ora, Te Ara Kōtuku. Thank you so much for reading that for us. I know we all feel privileged in this space to, one, hear you read to us, and then two, remind us that we are still in the movement, we are still fighting for our freedom in various ways. [00:53:00] Kivan. You've been really handsome on that screen up there. We'd love to hear from you now that we've done a round of the panel. Oh, kia ora. Tēnā ki a koe. Ngā huia. Really inspiring. You know, we talk about, uh, we follow in the footsteps of, of our, our leaders and they in turn inspire us to encourage other leaders. But I, I agree totally [00:53:30] with the, the, um, the fact. That this, uh, is a never ending, never ending, um, battle of recognition of who we are. And, and quite rightly so, uh, Ngā Hui are pointing out, some of those things that can change very, very quickly. And I'd just like to, to encourage our, our younger ones who, who are watching to, [00:54:00] you know, really get in there and, um, think about how to respond. To messages which look to isolate us, which look to, um, impose social conditions which are not our social conditions, which is not our social normalcy, um, that type of thing is what we have now, and it actually can be improved even more so, to be aware of it. [00:54:30] The complex intersections that we within rainbow communities and us as takatāpui in particular have challenges around, but I'm sure that there are, there are younger ones, really too, who are listening, who might be interested to also carry those battles through, because you're hearing it from, from, uh, from [00:55:00] people of lived experience, and you will have your experience, and you'll be able to translate that into what's needed now and what's needed going forward. In order to ensure that the world that we live in goes the right way, not the wrong way. Oh, a bit of a, bit of a kouhou there, eh? But I think I'll leave some for Cassie. She's, she's really good at this stuff. Kia ora, Cassie. I'm gonna just redirect our conversations. And it's about, um, [00:55:30] courage and freedom. So the question is to our panel. When you came out and took the stage. Owned your Sexuality in a public way. How did that feel and what was the thing that made you push out to stand up and say this is who I am? And yeah, how did that feel? Over to you, Cassie. I'd like to say that there was a moment when I was public out in the world and [00:56:00] everything was fantastic and I just felt so full of pride and joy and all these kinds of things but I, I don't know if I can think of that moment. Um, and What I mean by that is that homophobia and biphobia have been so, um, insidious. Within not just my life, but many lives, that there's always like this kind of thorn. There's always a something that is [00:56:30] there that has meant, um, that, that there is a feeling of shame ultimately around who you are. Now, how, how I've dealt with that. As I often don't get up and speak on panels about myself and my own experience around my sexuality and timea timea, I talk about the kaupapa, ne? I talk about the kaupapa because the kaupapa is actually kind of safe. The kaupapa keeps you Slightly distant from, from the [00:57:00] personal, because, you know, I was born in 1989, right? So I like the true baby here, let's just be real about when we use the word baby, we mean that. And, and so I grew up in a time that was probably. Inconceivably free and wonderful compared to many people in this room and on this panel. Even so, was still so entrenched [00:57:30] about how, how unnatural it was to feel as some of us feel. I remember one of the first times that I was cognizant of the word lesbian was in relation to a local high school teacher. And I didn't know anything. About, I don't even think I'd heard the word lesbian before. Nothing about it. It didn't seem like an event to me. It was like, oh, okay. Yeah, you know, this is how people feel [00:58:00] towards other people. But the reason I knew about this word is because it was associated with a local high school teacher who was known to be a lesbian and she was disgusting. Everyone knew how disgusting she was. It was the talk of town. It was constant. The main point of reference for the word lesbian was this, um, Specter of a woman who I don't even know the name of, I don't know the face of, I wouldn't know her if I met her in the street, but she was disgusting. That's all I knew. And you wouldn't want to [00:58:30] be like her, talked about by strangers who you've never gonna meet again. So, yeah, I'd like to say that. Everything was fantastic, and there were all these moments where everything felt prideful and amazing, but I don't know if I've ever felt that. I remember, um, I remember Kathleen will know this here because Kathleen's in the audience. Kathleen Winter directed a film that I was begrudgingly the subject of. [00:59:00] You know, she asked me, do you have any ideas about what, what a cool film would be? What stories need telling in this particular moment? And I was like, yeah, there needs to be more queer indigenous stories. Tell those. She's like, cool. So do you want to be the subject of my film? And I was like. Fuck you. Um, but I kind of had to put my money where my mouth was at that point and so um Was the center of a very short loading docks film and and it was horrifying [00:59:30] I had spent at till that point maybe eight to ten years Being openly queer, um, going into school assemblies and talking about queerness and sexuality and gender diversity to very, um, homophobic, unfriendly places, I'd been, um, You know, picking young people up off the pavement. Um, I'd been helping young people through all kinds of stuff, giving them homes when [01:00:00] they had nothing, getting off them off the street, getting them off drugs, whatever was going on, bandaging their wrists up. Um, and I've been doing that for years. And yet, when there was a moment for me to tell my story, it suddenly became hugely confronting about how that thorn had seeped so far into my psyche and into my heart and who I was. So poor Kathleen just had the worst time [01:00:30] of trying to even get me on a film because once the camera was on me, my sexuality, it just I just brought up so much stuff after the film was, um, released, I had to go back home and I had to be just around no one for a long time, because even though I knew how it was okay to be me and how it was okay to be us. You could still feel it, and you still knew it, and so, yeah, like, maybe that moment has never come. I know who I am. I stand [01:01:00] proud in who I am. I have no problem of any of that, and I will fight for the right, always, for anybody to be who they are, and I still do, but I just want to name that even the most, sometimes, out there people, Might still feel that thorn in them, that poison in them. And I'd like to think that one day on my deathbed, that will no longer exist. That poison is run clear. I'd like to think that. If it doesn't, you know, we still deserve to be free. We [01:01:30] still find the joy. We still get up every day. We still laugh. We still love the people that we dearly love. Um, and, and we still keep going. So that's just my whakaaro on that. Beautiful, we're all gonna um, log into TVNZ on demand and do loading docks. Um, Brave, thank you, uh, that ehi is coming through strong. Thank you so much for sharing, and over to you Lynne. 1989? [01:02:00] 1990 I was born. We went to the same school. I knew that teacher. Um, and that was Even though it may not have been the right year, that was pretty much, um, my first memory of lesbianism as well, was the teacher that everyone took the shit out of and, and spoke derogatorily about. Um, in, in that other life that I lived, I [01:02:30] probably didn't, I don't remember much about I think I'd just call it the privilege of not having to even consider who I was. Um, the first time I ever spoke publicly was in a church. Um, and the church was, it was a, a, like a, a collection of churches [01:03:00] that were coming together. And they wanted to know how they could be more compassionate to, uh, the rainbow community, and I had been asked to speak. So, I took the opportunity to, um, tell them that I didn't need any compassion, thank you very much. Um, but, that. It was the first time that I publicly kind of said, you know, Kia ora, my name's Lynn [01:03:30] and I'm a lesbian. Um, I remember being somewhat confronted by it because I kind of didn't think that there was a need to define anything, or particularly not myself. Um, And I've only ever been asked to go back to a church once. That's all. Um, well, I was born in the 1940s. [01:04:00] Um, so that's another. era. Though there are some of us in the room that share it. Um, and so there was no word for it in my community. It was like, your aunties are like that. Your uncles are like that. And so it was about being like that. You might be like that. [01:04:30] So, um, I didn't hear the L word until, um, Oh, well, you know, I was a great reader and constantly haunted the library and was a bit peculiar. Um, I would only go to the sports field to watch the other girls. Laughter And, um, anyway, I, um, I don't know, I grew up In Ohinumutu, in Rotorua, born and raised [01:05:00] there, and we all went bathing together, and Everybody was naked and lots of us went looking for the soap. And, and so there was stuff that was done that was called, and this is the boys as well, that was called mucking around. And sometimes you really like mucking around. But did it make you like that? And so there was [01:05:30] a whole realm of sexuality in our communities. And I'm saying Māori communities, Pacifica communities, where sex was never actually defined. It was like mucking around, you know, and, um, but there were a few of us that were definitely like that. And, um, most of us thought the anonymity [01:06:00] and the safety of the larger cities, um, the L word, the L word. Came into my life, um, and I think this is in, um, a book which was published, um, many years ago now about, um, the events in Christchurch and the killing of [01:06:30] someone's mother, and, um, I speak to the issue in that book, um, edited or put together by, um, Alison Laurie and Julie Glamisner, and Um, I ended up, aged 15, being driven home after a meeting, which was [01:07:00] extraordinary, um, with A, a personage later identified as Drac Holland, who was the superintendent of Ata Girls Prism, women's Prism. And she had come to UA to give a talk about the prism, and I found her completely extraordinary. In fact, I was fascinated, [01:07:30] and the teacher who had taken me to this talk was driving me home. Anyway, she stopped. And she talked about being like that, and she mentioned the Kashmir Hills case, and she said, and those girls were lesbians, and that's not good, and you have to [01:08:00] be careful. Well, it never dawned on me because I was like that, and it wasn't till I got to Auckland. That I realized what she had told me. Um, coming out publicly, uh, God, women's liberation. And, um, I did that article because I was so proud of the L word and there were only two of us who were out in the movement. [01:08:30] And, um, we were interviewed. A group of us, including Sue Kedgeley and Sharon Siedemann, and I had this mad woman as a lover at the time who had just come out of Arohata, there you go, and she was a working woman, and, um, in the television interview, she's standing behind me carrying the dog,[01:09:00] and we were asked, um, why we were members of Women's Liberation, um, And I said with great pride, and this is on national television, um, Saffic women. I couldn't quite say the L word, but Saffic women have been in the vanguard of women's rights for [01:09:30] centuries. And, um, the next day there was a luncheon called For the women leaders of Auckland and Connie Purdue and a couple of others came up to me and accused me of being completely irresponsible and saying I'd put the movement back 50 years. Well of course I bounced gaily down the road and really didn't give a damn [01:10:00] because I was like that. But what is interesting is that. Um, not much long, um, when we got Gay Liberation going, um, we did actually have a really interesting, um, gallery interview with Dereni Shanahan. And someone has recently excavated it. I'd really love to see it. Because there I was, showing off, talking about my being [01:10:30] like that. Proud, say the L word, and my poor mother ended up being bombarded with phone calls from people all over the park. In fact, the entire tribe. Well, not quite, but there was one person who stopped her in the street. Um, I will not name him, but he was a renowned and prominent orator and Composer [01:11:00] and community leader, and we knew he was like that, but it was a secret because he was married with a big family and quite a prominent local personality. He got my mother's side. And he said to her in Maori, I'm proud of our girl, tell her it's okay, tell her I told you I'm proud of her.[01:11:30] And so I saw mother and she immediately conveyed that to me and I said, yes, there's no stopping us now. And it's like, um, it's stuff like that, which really I think gives us the energy and the faith. And a sense of hope, and it's the sense of hope that we have to keep alive. Kia ora. [01:12:00] So beautiful. I'm aware we only have two minutes left on the clock, but I do want to give Kevin the opportunity to tell his story, because our session today is about gay liberation. Kevin, over to you. It's not a big story, but anyway, just to cut it short, I was born in 1960. I was born in Rotorua, actually, and my parents were teachers. Um, based at, uh, Rotoiti and Motukawa. Um, so my first memories were in [01:12:30] Rotorua. Um, I think I've always been like that. I remember, um, being attracted to, to, to males from a, from an early age. I also, um, was very Uh, conscious of how people talked about characteristics, you know. Um, if you're a sissy [01:13:00] or, uh, particularly because I was male. Um, you are sort of very aware of, of how, um, people in our community spoke or didn't speak, actually. And for me, uh, I was brought up in a Māori friendly and, and quite strong. Um, Māori whānau, but we all lived in [01:13:30] separate areas and of course that has an impact on the connection within whānau, but aside from that, I guess the story I wanted to talk about was I went to, um, I went to boarding school and so, you know, there were lots of, lots of, lots of, and it was a male boarding school, boys boarding school, And I think this, uh, I agree Nahuia, you know, mucking around was just what it was. Um, [01:14:00] exploring sexuality. It wasn't really until I got to about 15 or 16 or 17, where you had to start making choices, in my view, for me anyway, about are you going to be like that in public or not like that? Um, and so I'm a pre, um, homosexual law reform tangataapui, [01:14:30] and, you know, all of those things had an impact on, on me, um, in terms of the choices that I made, uh, to be, to actually not be out for quite a while. Coming out in public, I think, wasn't the important thing for me. It was coming out to my whānau that was most important. Uh, and, you know, it was the story of coming out to my whānau, actually, was because I was in a relationship that broke up, and [01:15:00] I needed support, and I was, you know, pretty devastated by that breakup. And this would have been when I was probably around 30, so Um, it was when I came out to my, my, my parents, and then my sisters, and then their husbands, and this all happened within a day or so, that, um, nothing then mattered, whether I was in public or not, but, um, that thorn that Cassie talks about has [01:15:30] always been in my side about that, um, uh, that, that little fear, that little fear of, of, of, Of being not treated, um, with respect about who I am and a respect of, of, of my sexual attraction and so forth. Yeah, so, for me, coming out, uh, to my family was, was the key turning point for me to then be able to [01:16:00] come out, uh, in public. And even then, I'm fairly shy. Really, and, and, uh, I've never really been one to, to, to, to be too forward with, um, revealing myself, uh, and sometimes I don't know what layers still, still are there in terms of revealing myself to, but, uh, that's a little bit of my story. I won't get killed.[01:16:30] Kia ora Kevin and thank you. Uh, we could go on for hours. I know we could. I know there are questions probably sitting in the webinar, but the iPad is locked and the time has come to an end. Um, on behalf of the National Library, I would like to give thanks to our panellists who have shared with us their story and their truth. And have reminded us that the fight still continues in every way. And that thorn, that's our privilege. And [01:17:00] we should use our privilege to uplift those who need it. Uh, so, thank you everybody for making time together today. Uh, for being here in spirit on the webinar. Thank you Kevin for locking in and being present. We're so grateful. Glad that you are able to join this event. Um, I'm just going to hand it over to our brother, Nate, who will close us in karakia. Oh, nā mihi, nā mihi e te whānau. Um, just very quickly before [01:17:30] saying this karakia, I'd just like to give some background. Um, it's called Heata. It talks about the time when the night and the day the night starts to fade in the days or the the sun starts to rise, which is a very special time of day. It reminds us every day that it's a new opportunity. So Quin. He ata, he ata ki runga, he [01:18:00] ata ki raro, he ata ki te whakatutu, he ata ki te whakaritorito, he ata whiwhia, he ata rauea, he ata taonga, he taonga. Tūturu whiti whakamaua, kia tēnā, tēnā. Hau e, hui e, tāiki e, kia ora.
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