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Andy Boreham - Creating Our Stories [AI Text]

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So my name is Andy Ham. Um, I've been involved with a lot of events. I made a list here. Um, a lot of, um, pride events. Uh, we organise the the Pride Festival, which is sometimes a week, sometimes two weeks, Um, radio release parties, films, screenings, uh, cabaret events, Um, campaign launches parties. Um, and, of course, uh, out in the square, Um, in a protest here and there. [00:00:30] That's quite a wide range of events. Can you pinpoint kind of key things that are in all of those events that have made them successful, are there? Are there things that stand out? Um, I think probably the main thing is that they're targeted at a niche market like the gay lesbian, um, community. And there's not that many events that are put together. Obviously, um, we're a small part of of the community. So, um, when there are events, they tend to be supported. Well, if they organised Well, um and I think that's probably the [00:01:00] key to the success of a lot of of the events that I do when you say targeted. What? What does that mean? Um, they created by and for, um, GL. BT people, I guess. Um I mean, of, of course, their friends can come along and stuff, but, uh, largely, um, they aim at that at that market, so they tend to respond to the events and support them. So the events you're organising, are they things that you're already passionate about? And so is that something that kind of helps you organise [00:01:30] it? Or is it Do you know, do you take a more kind of removed approach? Um, I guess I'm passionate about, um, the gay scene in Wellington. Um, because, I mean, as I said, there's not a lot going on. So, um, my main passion lies in in having things that people can do here in Wellington. Um, yeah, There's not a lot of things that happen for the gay scene here outside of pubs and clubs. So it's always good to see that sort of happen. And, um, that's where the main passion comes from. How did you get involved in event management? [00:02:00] Oh, it goes a long way back. I think the first thing I took part in in terms of, uh, queer events was the outtakes Film festival. Um, I didn't do much But I just you know, I was able to see how how things are run, and and that was really interesting. And and the groups that come together to organise events, Um, so that was my first taste of it. That would have been oh, maybe 88 years ago. And then, um, I just slowly got involved. [00:02:30] Oh, I helped out with, um, the Gay and Lesbian Fair at Newtown School when it was still there when it was run by Wellington. I think it was, um, for a couple of years, and then they, uh, tended it out, I guess, sort of to the community. And that's when when I got involved in a in a more major way, when you did get involved in a more major way, why did you think that you could organise an event? What were the things that you were good at, that that that lead you into that area? I think probably mainly longevity, because a lot [00:03:00] of people come and go. It's a volunteer thing. Usually, um, so I mean, a lot of people have other commitments and and stuff. Um, and they don't have all the time in the world because it does take a bit of time. Um, so I found that I had the time. I guess, um, or the energy to to stick with events for a longer time. Um, that it required. I mean and see them from the the planning stage, right to to completion, because, I mean, especially out in the square. We have a lot of people that come along and volunteer for maybe a couple of months or even a couple [00:03:30] of weeks, and then then they're gone. So I think it Yeah, it takes longevity, um, in being interested, I guess, and and doing it can we take maybe out out in the square is, like, the main example of of an event and work out why it actually works. Can you tell me firstly, what out in the square is? OK, So out in square is Wellington's annual um, G BT. Um, fear it happens. Um, in Civic Square, [00:04:00] Uh, we generally get about 10 to 15,000 people. Um, it's, you know, there's about 50 to 60 stalls, um, with things for sale, food, uh, information, um, entertainment. Uh, and it's basically a day where, um, queer people and their friends and family can get together in a really visible location. Um, and her fun, basically. Was it always that large? Um, ever since we've been involved in Civic Square, it tend to be tended to be that large. [00:04:30] Um, that many people that come because it's such a you get a lot of through traffic, which was one of our main points. I mean, before the fear was at Newtown school, which was kind of in a cave. Um, and you got people going along that were going along, you know, they were choosing to go along. But out in the square now, in Civic Square, we get, um, quite a few 1000 people, probably half of them that come through, you know, is through traffic, and then they see what's going on, and they start taking part in, um, seeing the the queer community visibly in Wellington. Um, so [00:05:00] that was one of our main aims with moving it, um, and yeah, before it had moved when it was at Newtown school. What? What kind of, um, size audience were you getting? Oh, I wasn't involved very heavily, so I'm not sure, but from going along I'll probably say maybe through 1500 to 3000 people during the day. But they'd largely come along. You know, as I said, just to, you know, they wanted to go along, they planned to go along, and then they'd stay for the whole day [00:05:30] or or large parts of it. Yeah. So? So maybe we can look at the event now, which is in square. How do you devise that event? We basically come together as a group and decide. Um, I mean, largely it was already set out by by how the fear was before we didn't want to change it too much. So, um, you know, we stuck with the entertainment through the day that, um, the M CS, uh, and pretty much we kept it. How it was, except for [00:06:00] that, you know, a largely different venue. Um, but it tends to, in a way, put itself together. Um, I guess I wouldn't call it the market. But the community, I guess, decides how you know how out in the square looks from from the entertainers to the who's there with stalls and, um, stuff like that. We tend to sort of guide it along as opposed to devising it, in a way, yeah. So talk to me about when [00:06:30] you say the the the kind of community kind of drives it. How does how does that work? I'm not I don't understand. Well, we put out calls for support from the community for, um, store holders. Um, performers. Um, we don't tend to search for people to take part. We let them come to us based on, um, you know, putting out media releases and and trying to connect with the community. Um, and then they come to us. And I guess that's what I mean by the community. Sort of deciding [00:07:00] how it's gonna be because we don't tend to take a an active approach and deciding or choosing who's going to be represented there. It just sort of It's fluid. It happens, I guess. So. Why did you take that approach rather than going out and being through proactive and so you you you I guess it was the success of the fear. Um, we didn't we never really needed to go out and search for anybody because it's I mean, it's been running for over 25 years now, so it's got a lot of history. Um, people love, you know, they love the fear. [00:07:30] Um, so it's never been really at a point where we've had to actively search for for content, for for the fair. So in that way, we're really, really lucky. Yeah. Is it also quite hard that it has been running for such a long time? So you've got this kind of, um, history that that that that's there in terms of, you know, um, do you feel that you can't change stuff or that you don't want to change stuff? Well, we had a lot of opposition to the, um, actual move in the beginning. [00:08:00] Um, a lot of people from you know that have been around for the for the whole time. I guess, um, were against it moving they, you know, they traditionalist, I guess, um enjoyed the fear where it was and the history that was involved. Um, so they weren't too keen on it moving, but, um, that tends to have abated a bit, and people have realised that it really works, and it's growing and and moving into today. So apart from that, um, yeah, there is the history there so you don't want to change [00:08:30] it too much. But, I mean, as I said, we we let the community decide. So, really, they would decide somehow if they wanted it changed, and it would happen slowly. I guess not. Not straight away. When you were looking for other locations, were there other areas that you looked at in terms of where the fear could be in Wellington? Yeah, I think we looked at civic, not Civic Square. That's where it is. We looked at Cuba Street. Um, but that was probably too small. Then we thought about, um, the Botanic [00:09:00] Gardens because they had the grassy feel, you know, like the big gay out. But then again, it it went against the the, um, sort of accidental visitors. The the the larger community seeing our events. Um, so in the end, um, for visibility and and the fact that it's right in the centre, like right near the council and stuff like that, um, Civic Square really proved to be the best location. And also, there's a lot of events that take place there, um, throughout the year. So the council is well equipped to [00:09:30] to support events. Um and and it helps a lot. It's an interesting idea that the event I'm interpreting, what you're saying is that it's it's more than just about, um, the the the queer Community. But it's also a mainstream event. Have you had any discussions within the group that are organising this as to well, who we're actually aiming this at? Um, I guess, of course, it's mainly aimed at the queer community, but, um, there is a lot of [00:10:00] a lot of thought about the wider community taking part in and enjoying the day. Um, so we tend to we we try and make it as open to everyone. And when you say open to everyone, how how What are the things that you do that that actually make it inclusive? Well, we specifically went against, um, like, O overt sexuality. Um, that might sound really bad, but, um, we try and keep it a family event. Um, we like people of all [00:10:30] ages coming, people bringing their kids there. Um, so we have, um, avoided overly sexual, um, like performances and and stuff like that. I mean, there's a few performers who, um I know one for the, you know, pushing their sexuality in ways that are a bit controversial and probably wouldn't be suitable for Children. So we've tended to try and steer away from that sort of thing and keep it, um, family friendly. What would be an example? [00:11:00] We had some burlesque dancers that wanted to strip teas last year. Um, they were I think they were all It was just a straight group of girls. And, um, we watched one of the performances that they're thinking of doing, and it involved tassels and breasts and stuff like that, which is cool for an adult event. Um, but we decided to tone it down slightly. Um, just to keep it more family, more open to everyone. Does that also translate [00:11:30] into the kind of imagery you use for the the posters and the way you know, the kind of the words and the text that's used to promote the event? Actually, that's sort of contradictory to our poster, because we do have we tend to employ a few stereotypes in our imagery. Um, we've found that stereotypes. I mean, whether you agree with them or not, they tend to work in terms of grabbing attention from people who you're aiming at. Um, so I think this year we had a topless man on the poster. I think [00:12:00] maybe he was wearing leather, but, um, I mean, it wasn't overtly sexual, and it's a stereotype that people recognise, so they sort of connect with it. And, yeah, we found that wasn't too offensive. But we try and keep it quite G rated, obviously, to to sort of sum up our event as a family friendly place to go as a community event. Do you find there are tensions between people in terms of Well, how [00:12:30] do you promote this? How you know, how far do you push the boundaries or are pretty much people on the same page in terms of, you know, what should be there and what shouldn't be there. Well, with a square, we have quite a small group. So, um, there's not too many differing views, But, um, before when we had, uh, a a larger group, there was, um, always arguments and debates around representation of all the different. Um, I guess you call them stereotypes in in the community. Um, I remember [00:13:00] when we had some lesbians on the committee. Um, they were always really particular about what sort of images represented lesbians and the lesbian community. A lot of the images, they said, were, too. They didn't. I guess they didn't fit the stereotype. Like I did a poster one time because I always do the design. Um, and the lesbian members of the committee said that the, um images weren't lesbian enough that the girls looked too, too straight or too normal. So there's always [00:13:30] discussions about that, Um, representing all the different people sometimes. Um, we have debates about having, um, everyone represented on the posting the G, the L, the B, the T and everything in between, which can be really hard. Um, but yeah, there's a lot of discussion surrounding that. And I'm assuming words like queer and yeah, I mean, do do you have discussions around using that that kind of thing? Yeah. A few years ago, we decided not to use it, but we've sort of, um, swung back around because, I mean, it's a popular term, so I guess [00:14:00] we're reclaiming it. Um, what was the reason for not using it? We we look at a lot of the other groups in New Zealand and see what they're doing. So at that time, I think people were using the word rainbow to sum up, um, the communities. But that didn't really catch on. So I mean, it's really difficult to find a word that sums up everybody, and we don't really offer fit into this little box. So, um, the the word at the moment seems to be so, Yeah, we go with that now, so perhaps we can talk a wee bit about the organising [00:14:30] committee. How many people are on the committee and and how is that made up? Um, we have about probably only five to seven, permanent members on the committee. Um, we used to have a lot more. But as I said, people just tend to come and go a lot. So we're stuck to the small group. Um, of course, we welcome other members, but they don't tend to come along that often because it is quite an involved. I mean, it's a year round thing organising out in the square. So a lot [00:15:00] of people have other commitments, and they just Yeah, they can't come along. So, um, we have a small committee every year. We change the, um, the positions. We have a chairperson, a secretary, uh, a treasurer who stayed the same because he's good with money. Um, but we tend to shift things up, uh, change things up a bit. Um, and people take on certain roles that, uh, they do by themselves through the year. Um, and that tends to work quite well. Hm. So is that committee [00:15:30] self a pointed or how how does that work? Um, we have an a GM every year, and people are welcome to come along. Who are members of the, um, Society. I think it is. Yeah. Um, and vote. But, I mean, they tend to no one tends to come along to those either. So we just, um, at our age and we have a vote for for those positions. And then it's decided that day, and that's what happens with the rest of the year. Do you think that small number of people kind of volunteering or wanting to be part of the organising committee? Is that [00:16:00] quite common in community events? Or is this just a, um, something? I think so. In the groups that I've seen in Wellington, at least, um the groups tend to be quite small. They might have a wider group that they, uh, call on for ideas and stuff, but it just tends to be run by an executive group. That's usually 5 to 10 people, as far as I've seen. Um, I guess when you have those people that have been involved for a number of years, uh, in the small group you get to know each other and how you know all your strengths and weaknesses, and you [00:16:30] get to work together really well. And so in that respect, um, it works well, having small groups, but I guess it'll be really good to have to have larger groups. But, um, it just doesn't tend to happen as far as I've seen. Yeah. So do you have any thoughts about whether that idea of of having a kind of a a small committee as part of a society working on something like this or would you like to do it some other kind of way? What are your thoughts on on the way that that's kind of structured. [00:17:00] Um, I think it works with the smaller group. Um, when you have larger groups, you tend to get too many ideas being put in, um, in the decision stage And a lot of people, um, you know, they have quite extreme views, Um, and so they'll tend to stick their heels and and stop things from happening. Um, like I. I think I prefer smaller, smaller groups, [00:17:30] but with a lot of input from from the community during during the way, Um, that tends to work. Do you have an example of how something might not have happened because somebody stuck their heels in this? Is there anything that you can think of? Well, something I really wanted to happen out in the square was, um, you know, at fears and stuff how they have kids face painting. Um, I really wanted to do kids drag face painting, which I thought would have been really fun. Um, and a few members of the committee who were parents. So we I mean, I'm not a parent, so I respected [00:18:00] their decisions. Um, decided it would be a bad idea and a bit confusing, Um, or whatever the reasons were, so we didn't go ahead with it, but, um, I noticed that big gay out just recently They did a very similar thing and it went down really well. So I'm not sure if that, you know, was the best idea to pull it. But we we tend to listen to people who have expertise. So if someone's there, who's a parent? Um, and they think it's a bad idea. We tend to, you know, take that advice. So that never never [00:18:30] happened. So maybe breaking down the members on that committee can you kind of outline the areas that people work in? What? What are the things that they are responsible for? OK, so we have someone who takes care of entertainment. Um, we have, uh so they liaise with entertainers that contact us. Um, we sometimes organise, um, viewings of of entertainers or their material, online videos and stuff like that. Um, and then the entertainment liaison will bring that material to the whole committee, and we'll all [00:19:00] decide together, but they tend to work in that area. Then there's somebody who is a store holder liaison. Um, that's quite an involved, um, position dealing with all the, um all the inquiries about stallholder and and taking payments and liaising with them on the day helping them get the most out of the day. Um, we have a media person who puts together press releases and deals with the media. Um, and that person also tends to [00:19:30] work on, um, marketing collateral, like poster and and radio ads and stuff like that. And then we have a council liaison, The council. We work very closely with them, um, with their events team. So we have someone who, um their role is to specifically deal with the council and organising the the location. Um, the equipment, they supply a lot of equipment. So, um, it helps to have one person dealing with them, and then we have, um the the chairperson sort of oversees the whole the whole [00:20:00] lot. Um, as you'd expect. And the, um, treasurer deals with the money, and I think that's probably about it. Yeah. Has that structure always been in place, or is that something you've just kind of come to in the last couple of years? Oh, I can't even remember it. It should have been always in place. I guess it would have been. Yeah, when we put the the new group. When we put out Wellington together, Um, I think we sat down and came up with a process that we don't use it anymore. Um, it tends to largely [00:20:30] organised itself, but, um, I'm sure we came up with that based on, um, discussions, Um, and experience, I guess. And you were saying earlier that this is a year long event for you in terms of planning and that can you take me through the the the kind of stages of of the event and the timeline. OK, so right after the fair has taken place, we tend to, um, try and book the next year. When is the fair taking [00:21:00] place? Um, it took place this year in January. I'm really bad for dates. I think 25th of January. And the reason it's in January is because it fits into the summer City festival for the council. So we get free promotion, um, through radio ads and Dominion posts and stuff as part of Summer City, which is really good. Um, so as soon as that's happened for, uh, in terms of planning the next year's event, we try and lock down the date for the next year as soon as possible, and then we have a probably a two or three month break because it is [00:21:30] quite important to clear your head. Um, it's quite a stressful, uh, at the last, you know, in the last stages and on the day, it can be quite stressful. So we have a bit of a break, and then we meet probably once every month, up till about October, or, like, three or four months before the event. Um, and then it becomes it slowly becomes more regular. So it I mean, there's no formula written down for this. I think we just decided at the time, um, we move the meetings to fortnightly [00:22:00] and then before the event, it's weekly for about probably two months. Um and then we just, um, those group the group meets together, and we update each other on what's going on in those positions and, um, work out what needs to happen. So in those first meetings, So you have your break after the January fair in those first monthly meetings, what kind of things are being discussed? What? I think the first meetings we discussed the fear. That's just been, um what went wrong? [00:22:30] What went well, what we'd like to do again? What We'd like to try, um, stuff like that and feedback. We do, um, store holder feedback forms. So we go through those, um, we asked them everything from, um the size of their store to entertainment. What they thought of the entertainment. Um, and we collect that material and discuss how to move forward for the next for the next year. What kind of feedback do you get? There's lots [00:23:00] of specific feedback, like things like wanting more shade. Um, that happened, I think. Last year's year 2011, We, um, put stores in the middle of the square for the first time, not under marques. Um, and that was really popular. But people said that they needed some shade from the sun. So we took that feedback. And then this year, we had, um, umbrellas and stuff for the for the store holders. Um, then there's stuff more general stuff, um, [00:23:30] about packing in, picking out access to the square, um, comments on the store holder liaison and basically things that they think could be improved. Or, um, yeah, for the next year, are you able to share some of the, um, kind of overall ideas, was it, you know, being positive feedback. Negative feedback. Well, overall, it's generally positive. Um, the negative things tend to be things that are out of our control. Like access. Um, the [00:24:00] council stipulates the time when you have to be in and out of the square, and they're quite strict about I mean, rightly so. They're quite strict about, um, vehicles that can be in there how fast you can go. Um, what time you need to be there, What time you need to be out. Um, so it's generally about that sort of thing. Also, they're really strict about food. Um, you you need if you want to sell food. And this is one of the problems we had when we moved the here as well, because they weren't so strict at Newtown school. Um, but it turns out you can't bake things [00:24:30] at home and sell raffles or sell them, um, without a food certificate. So that was a, um, something that people complained about, obviously. Um, but, you know, we just help them with the process and and help them to get those certificates and and what they need for for the upcoming fears that kind of certificate. Is that quite a a long process to go through or how? How does that work? Um, I don't think so. I don't know the specifics about it. I've never dealt with it myself, but, [00:25:00] um, all it is is there's There's a list of rules, I think, um, to do with food preparation. Um, and some of them you can't use butter or something. I think unless you have a unless you prepare the food in a commercial kitchen, which I think is fair enough, um, with food, poison or whatever. Um, but there's a set. I mean, there's a set of rules that the council provides, and it's, I think, two pages long. It's pretty simple and straightforward. Um, that outlines the, um, the process in order to get [00:25:30] one of those certificates. Um, and it was hard for the smaller groups, um, like Wellington and stuff that wanted to do raffles baking raffles and and stuff like that because they couldn't do it. But, um, are there any queer specific regulations that the council puts in place for for a queer related event? Or is it just you that's pretty much across the board. Um, we used to have I mean, this is nothing to do with the queer thing, but we used to have alcohol at the fair. Um, which tends to be popular at these sort of events [00:26:00] we've found overseas. Um, it tends to be about getting drunk, but, um, that became, um, not allowed, So we haven't been that alcohol since then. Um, which is fine by me, but, um, yeah, it's pretty much it's the same rules across across the board, which I think it should be. No, no. Queer specific rules. So you've got those first meetings which you you're getting feedback. What? What then happens? What? What what's the timeline in terms of, You know, um, I'm thinking [00:26:30] in terms of, say, like, marketing and, um, walking down stall holders, locking down performers. Well, first, we tend in the middle of the year. I think by August, we have to put together a council report and a sponsorship report in our annual, um, in your report, um, which is really important for applying for funding. Um, and then I think we apply for funding around October, which is [00:27:00] quite a bit before the fair. So you need to be on the board there. Um, and in terms of marketing, we don't tend to. Well, first, we put out media releases, um, mainly in gay media, um, looking for store holders and entertainers and around if the fear was in January, we were doing it around November, December. Um, and we tend to get quite a good response from that. But in terms of, um, standard marketing, we we don't do that till three weeks before because [00:27:30] we find that people get bored and forget the message. So it's got to be fresh, like street posting and stuff. We do that three weeks before, but with the fear being in January, everyone's closed over Christmas. So you sort of have to prepare it and get it printed before everyone leaves at Christmas to make sure you have stuff on time. But yeah, it's It's an ongoing thing, I guess so. As a store holder, what would I need to provide? Uh, the organising committee with what? What are the things I would need to do? OK, so we have a form that's [00:28:00] on the website that people can download. Um, and it's got all the information. Um to do with what size your store is? Um, what we supply we supply a table and some chairs, I think in the space. Obviously, um and we need to find out if they have if they need power, if they need access to to other things like that, and we can place them in a certain place. Um, depending on the requirements, um, and basically what they're doing, Because in terms of food [00:28:30] and stuff, at least, um, we, um, try and get a certain a limited number or a certain sort of store like we wouldn't want three or four coffee carts. Um, we we want people who come along to have a successful time. So, um, one or two coffee carts at the most would be, um, something we'd go for just so they that they want to come back. Um, and, uh, yeah, we work out what they need, and they sign the agreement and pay their money, and [00:29:00] then do they pay, uh, a percentage of their profit on that day as well? Or is it just No, we've thought about that, but, um, we haven't implemented anything like that yet. Um, I think they used to do that at Newtown School. It was either a set fee or a percentage. And you got to decide. Um, but yeah, we just have the set fee. Um, we we get a lot of support from the council, so we, um, try not to, um, you know, they give us such good support that we don't really need to get more. So [00:29:30] the the amount of money we get from the store holders covers, um, the equipment we actually give them. So, like the store, the trestle table, The chairs, um, is covered by that largely covered by that. That $30. Um, but we have talked about doing a percentage. I guess we'd think about it in in the coming years. So you've mentioned the council a number of times in terms of funding and sponsorship. Can you talk me through how that process of applying for funding works? And, you know, what are the kind of [00:30:00] key things that you're targeting when you in your applications? Ok, so with the council, um, one of the main things that they sponsor I mean, they give us cash, but one of the main things is the use of obviously of Civic Square and, um, all the equipment, like the stage and the sound. And, uh, they supply the sound technician and they set it all up, and then they clean up and stuff like that. Um, basically, I guess the first step, if someone was going to put on an event is to, um and apply [00:30:30] for funding from the council would be to, um see if there's other events that are already covering that. That that niche market, I guess. Um, I think the council, um you know, any council wants to have events, um, in their city for all the different, um, aspects of of the community. So, for example, if someone wanted to set up a second gay and lesbian fear in Wellington, I don't think they have much luck from the council. So it's, I mean, a large part of it is finding something that the [00:31:00] council needs or or wants. Um, so in your application, what kind of, um, words would you have to make a successful application? I don't know specific words, but I would, um, definitely outline what the event is going to offer to to that council in terms of, um, something they need. They need events that represent, um, um, wide aspects of of the community and stuff like that. Um, [00:31:30] it it's really important to have if you haven't done, um, applied for funding from them before to have support from the community, maybe support leaders or something like that. Um, outcomes. What? You what you hope to achieve? Um, they always love that sort of thing. Um, if you can outline what you know, a mission statement, I guess for your event and what your event will achieve within that that community, Um, in terms of out in the square, it's, you know, we play on on the visibility, um, normalising [00:32:00] the GL BT communities of Wellington with the wider community and also Wellington City Council prides itself on, um, being in events, capital and being, you know, diverse. Um, so play on that. Basically, look at look at the website and find out. I guess the mission statement, if they'll call it that of that council, um, what they claim to be what they claim to do. And then you can play on that, I guess. Interesting. In your mission. You you're [00:32:30] using the word normalising. How easy was it to actually put that word into a statement? Because I'm assuming a lot of, Well, some people in the community would say, Actually, I don't want to be I don't want to be. Well, thankfully, the application to the council only get seen by them. So you don't need to worry too much in that process of, um, annoying the certain factions of of the community, but yeah, I mean people. A lot of people don't want to be normalised. They don't want to be part of the rest of the community, but, um, [00:33:00] in terms of getting the funding from the council and stuff like that, you need to, I guess, use language and stuff that they understand. It does it. You don't have to all agree with that with the, um, funding from the council. How much? How much would you get A year? Um, we try and push it up every year. In the beginning, I think we got about 3000. But that's in cash a lot. Most of it is the use of the of the square. Um, the sound equipment, the stage equipment, which costs, you know, a lot more. Um, but last year, we put [00:33:30] it up to, I think, 6000 for the art games because we were coinciding with the art games. And this year, um, we decided to leave it at that level as well. Um, and they paid, I think, 5000. So, um, generally we'll try and push it up every year. And then you can say you're growing the event and making it better and blah, blah, blah, and they tend to, um, approve of it and want to support it. So, um, yeah, we try and get more every time. How do you know? As a group, if it's [00:34:00] been successful, what are what are what are the measures that you would make it a success or a failure? Well, in terms of myself, I tend to go by the vibe of the day. I. I think you can judge a lot from that. What you hear from people? Um, also, the queer community tends to be sometimes quite vocal with their negative opinions. Um, so if you have done something wrong, or if something didn't work, you're going to hear about it. Um, so we keep an eye on, um particularly message boards and stuff like that because a lot of people don't say [00:34:30] the stuff to your face. So we look at the games in forums and, um, any other comments in and media and stuff like that? Um, but yeah, mainly. It's just the vibe of of the day you can feel if it's been a success, I guess. And how happy people are. Do you have any other forms of sponsorship that that you have with other organisations? Yeah, We, um, always have a lot of support from the New Zealand AIDS Foundation. Um, they like to have a big, quite a big presence [00:35:00] at events like out in the and and stuff like that. Um, it's a great way for them to connect with their audience. Um, so they tend to give us, um, cash grants every year as well as use of their equipment. We use the keys for, um, the grass stalls. Um, we were required to have marquees, so yeah, that the foundation bought some specifically, um, one year for us to use at the fair, and then they keep them for the rest of the year and then ship them down. [00:35:30] So that's, you know, a huge help. Um, also, they have a big presence on the day. They have, um, a lot of information. Um, safe sex, the safe sex message going around. Um, also other queer groups in Wellington like rainbow Wellington. Um, gay line. They tend to, um, be quite supportive. Um, of course. Rainbow Wellington used to run out in the square, so they they're sort of like parents, I guess, wanting to support their [00:36:00] kids now that they've moved out of home. Um, so they're always really helpful. Um, also, Rainbow Wellington has a lot of members that, um, have information if you need it. Um, as well as you know, people who used to work on the fear at Newtown school. So that's always a good resource. Um, yeah. And sometimes we print. Um uh, sometimes a and square coincides with the Pride festival, so we print a booklet. And so advertising and the advertising, um, apart [00:36:30] from covering the cost of the booklet, which can be quite a bit, um, goes towards, um, running the the events. Um, which can be quite helpful. Also, um, we ask a lot of businesses in Wellington for, um sponsorship. Uh, like, uh, prizes, like data tabs from S and MS. And, um, stuff like that. And people are generally forthcoming with that sort of thing, which is also really helpful. And it gets them promoted on the day as well as, uh helps make [00:37:00] the events a bit more exciting having you know, prizes and stuff. Um, yeah. Are there any other kind of, um, ways of getting money into the event? I'm thinking of things like entry fees or things like that. Well, the big gay out in Auckland, they have, um, a gold coin donation on the entry to Coyle Park. Um, we think we might try that one year, but it won't be a compulsory thing. It'll just be if you want to. Whereas [00:37:30] in big gay out, I think you have to give a donation, which is fair enough as well. Um, yeah, we thought it doing that, but, I mean, we don't want We also don't want to annoy people that have come to the fear for 20 years for free, if you know what I mean. So, um yeah, any sort of changes like that we take, um, with with discussions with uh, the community also people that have run the fear in the past. Um, you know, find out what they [00:38:00] think about that sort of thing is it's quite helpful. So is the aim of the sponsorship and fundraising to break even Or are you wanting to have some kind of surplus? Um, we tend to have a surplus now, which I don't know. I don't know if it's a good thing, because maybe it means we've asked too much from people. Um, but it's also good to carry it to, you know, carry it through to the next year. Um, but yeah, we definitely want to break even. I mean, I don't We've always [00:38:30] broken even. I think that would be the first aim. Um, I think one year we had to access the the mayor's, um, emergency fund because something Oh, I can't remember what happened. I think that the date got stuffed up and it turned out that we wouldn't have time to apply for the normal funding. I think so. That helped, but, um, yeah, I mean, definitely breaking even, um, ends. Also, it's good for [00:39:00] to have a If you have a surplus, it's good to, um, run other events during the year that can promote that main event. I mean, without Wellington at least, um, out in the square is is the main event. But we can also put on, um, other events that promote the fair and raise funds for the fair through the year. Um, and it helps having some capital there for that, if you can. So is it hard to break even on these kind of events I haven't found? It has been hard. Um, in the past, [00:39:30] it's been difficult when we've had Oh, how am I gonna put this, um, differing views on the committee of where the money should be spent and how much should be spent and how the event should come across 11 time. We sponsored a, um, gay dance party we gave them. I think $4000 and the whole committee was wasn't in agreeance with that, but it was a majority thing. And I think that year we lost money. Um, but [00:40:00] when I'm chairperson, I tend to be really conservative with money. Um, uh, I don't like to spend large amounts of money on on one thing, especially if, um if we're not gonna break even. I mean, I would never want to not break even. But, um, yeah, if you have quite a few differing views on how the money should be spent, it can be quite hard to keep things in check. Um, but we don't have that problem. At the moment, we haven't actually defined, [00:40:30] um, the kind of person that's on the the committee at the moment. Can you just give me a rough idea about the kind of age kind of gender sexuality at the moment? Do we have all gay men? Um, differing ages? I think mostly they're quite young. Early twenties, Um, excited. Sort of people that wanna, you know, spend numerous hours during the air putting together events. [00:41:00] Um, yeah, I think it's quite limited, actually, when I think about it, um, the group we don't have that much, um, difference through the group. And I think, um, I don't know. It might be a good or a bad thing, but I mean, certainly if people come along that want that have certain skills or whatever they want to help out, then we we open arm to that. Um, but it just doesn't happen often. Volunteers, volunteers. Um, what is that, [00:41:30] like getting volunteers from the from the queer community? It's difficult. We send out to media releases a couple of times during the year and always mention the fact that we're always looking for volunteers. Um, the whole committee, obviously is, is a volunteer. Um, but we also look for volunteers. Um, just to help out on the day that don't need to, you know, give their time for the whole year and even that can be quite tough. Um, that sometimes works to go to groups like [00:42:00] Uniq, um, or school there and ask for, you know, a block of volunteers at the same time. And then they can do something on the day or, you know, turn it into a fun thing. Um, but volunteers generally tend to be quite hard to come by because, I mean, obviously, a lot of people have other things they need to do and other commitments and stuff. Um, so in that respect, it can be quite hard. So we try and hold on to people that we have, um, when we can, um, which doesn't always happen, but yeah. Um, [00:42:30] there are volunteers out there. They're just limited. And also in Wellington. We've just had the out games which, you know, called on a huge group of people to help out. So a lot of people haven't had volunteer energy left, but yeah, I think that will be changing soon. So hopefully a lot of people get helped out with, um, with the art games, we'll be keen to come along and help with out in the square. Yeah. Do you have any kind of incentives to get volunteers to help out? [00:43:00] Not really. I guess we offer the same incentives as a religion. Um, socialising, um, achieving something, um, something to do in terms of, um, tangible incentives. There's not really anything we can. I mean, we can't spend that money on giving people meals and and stuff like that. So I mean, it is a big ask to, uh, to get volunteers, I guess, but, um, yeah, generally, it's the the socialising, the getting [00:43:30] something done, taking part in a In an event? I guess so. We tend to attract people who are interested in and and event management, and yeah, Has there ever been a discussion about having either paid staff or, you know, paid and volunteer staff. Not with at Wellington. We haven't ever been in that position. Um, and I, I don't know if there would be a position that would require that within, uh, within our group. But [00:44:00] if I guess if we were severely disabled because we missed a certain, I don't know, like a treasurer. At the moment, we have a really good, um, volunteer treasurer. Who? Um I mean, it's quite specific, um, looking after tax and working out budgets and and and cash flow and stuff like that. Um, I guess that would be a position where we could consider paying somebody, perhaps an accountant or something to, um to do that role. But that hasn't come up yet, so we haven't really [00:44:30] had any serious discussions about that. Do you have any kind of formula in terms of amount of volunteers to crowd sites? Like for if if you had 15,000 people through out in the square, how many would you need for that? Well, because volunteers are so hard to come by, we just try and get as many as we can. Um, so we haven't had the chance to, I guess, come up with an ideal number or turn people away or or something. Um, so, yeah, we just try and get [00:45:00] as many as we can, Um, in that respect, Yeah. We haven't really been in a position to come up with a I mean, is that annoying that you You don't get that many volunteers? Um, it's not annoying because I think I guess I understand. Um, that that it is a big ask, um, for people to to help out, um, and not get anything in return. That tends to be how society works these days. So, um, [00:45:30] and it fluctuates from year to year. Like sometimes we have quite a few people, and sometimes we have not many at all. I think this year we had less than 10 volunteers on the day or less than five apart from our team. Um, so we called on other people back here. It can be difficult. Is a is a big part of the organising, actually, just trying to call on friends, call on acquaintances [00:46:00] to actually get things done. Definitely. Um, I think the year before last, we had a group of about 10 to 20 volunteers that came in the morning and helped us set up. Um, and they were all friends of of the committee, Um, who don't come along to regular meetings. So, um, that that's quite a large part of it, I think with especially with with gay events in in Wellington, because Wellington is a small in our city as it is, let alone when you're talking about just the queer part of it. So, um, yeah, [00:46:30] that tends to be on the day. At least we tend to call on a lot of friends and nephews and stuff, which can be eye opening for them. What about marketing? How do you get people to attend? What? What are some of the strategies you use to get people coming along? 01 of the big ones would be online social media. Um, it's really helpful to get people to start talking about your event. I think, um, that sort of adds validity to it. Um, [00:47:00] so we try and get people involved in in, you know, online, um, passing things along. Then there's, um, street posting, which I think again, it adds sort of concrete or or validity to the event. Um, when you see posters up, you know that it's it's happening. Um, And then, uh, as part of Summer City, it's really good to have, um, their, um advertising that they fund, [00:47:30] um on on radio and in Dominion Post, which we'd never be able to afford. And then also, we try to work with with queer media like Express and GNZ to, um, get stories, um, sort of relating to the event um, published, um, that aren't so that aren't so obvious. Um, instead of, say, doing a story saying, Hey, you should come to square. It's more like blah, blah, blah is performing at out in the square. This is about the end blah, blah, blah. And then at the end, you say, [00:48:00] um, you know all the details out in the square Saturday blah, blah, blah. Um, and then people don't feel like they're being so blatantly targeted, I guess I think that helps. So when you are approaching media, you're you're actually giving them an angle? Yeah, we frame an angle, we try, and, um, especially with the entertainers, it's quite easy because they have, um, they want most entertainers want to promote themselves. So they have images and stuff like that. So we do little interviews, and, um, with [00:48:30] media, I've found that, um I don't want to offend anyone, but they can be quite busy, so it helps if you give them everything they need on a plate. So what we tend to do is formulate, um um, media releases that are, like, a finished story. Um, so they can see sort of an angle, and then they can see how it might work. And then they take bits from it here and there, Um, give them contact details for, um, relevant people that they could talk to, um to chase up. Um, and that tends to help a lot. Um, with [00:49:00] media and getting, you know, it is really important to send all that information because, you know, you could just send a lot of people think it's enough to just send, um, an email or something and say, Hey, we're doing this event. Can you do a story? Um, they they tend to ignore that. So, um, it helps to to give as much as as you can here. So what about getting stories into mainstream media? Have you had much success with that, uh, mainstream media usually, um, requires advertising [00:49:30] as well. Um, as as the content, the the editorial, Uh, when I suppose, um I say newspapers can be, you know, it should be separate from from the advertising part of it. Um, but usually it's not. So you know, they'll require that you buy advertising, um, in order to get that editorial coverage, and they favour people who have that, uh, that sort of money and a lot of the time out in the square, we we just don't have 7 $800 to put into one pot, if you will. Um, [00:50:00] so that's been a struggle, but sometimes it's also I mean, it really depends who's who's working there and what they're looking for. It's getting media, I think is is large largely to do with luck. Um, and you're never going to know what they're looking for. Or you know what? Yeah, what they're looking for. So try your luck. Send them as much as as you can. Um, if you have some money, buy some ads. Um, and you'll probably have have more favour with getting editorial content. [00:50:30] What about TV and radio. Do you have any like? Yeah. Um, this year we tend to harass them every year. Um, this year we were lucky we had TV one come along and do a story, which is really good, Because out in the square at least, um, as I said, one of our main goals is is visibility. So the one news came along and they did a story, and, you know, you'd think that a story like Out in the Square would be in the last five minutes of the news. But it was in in, like, the first, um, segment. So it [00:51:00] was really, you know, a really visible, um, piece about, um, being in Wellington, Um, and what it's all about. And so that was really valuable. Um, I guess if you have that sort of coverage, you're not you're probably not gonna get it the following year. Um, you know, it's probably 23 or whatever, but, um, yeah, yeah. I find that people. Yeah, like, as I said, you're never gonna know what they're looking [00:51:30] for, So just just try it. And don't be embarrassed to hound the media. A lot of people think that it's embarrassing or you should sit back and wait for them to contact you, and it doesn't work like that. So you just have to harass them and not be embarrassed. What does that exposure on say, TV one do for you? Well, um, in terms of the normalisation, it helps a lot. But I found that mainstream media, they tend to play on the stereotypes a lot, which, um, doesn't [00:52:00] really help. Um but, I mean, it's it should slowly change, but, I mean, any visibility is good, especially when it's framed positively. Um, which it was, of course. Um, I would like to see more, um, or less rather stereotypes in in the media, but that's probably not going to happen soon. Um, in terms of like, uh, for example, at the big gay out, they you can watch the the media coverage. And almost all of the shots [00:52:30] are stereotypical images. Say topless guys drag queens, um, beers people with sexual fetishes and stuff like that when the reality is that most people just look like everyone else. Um, so that would be, you know, that's an interesting thing to probably watch out for. Um, but you definitely get the visibility on their terms. Um, and that can't all be bad. So yeah, which is interesting because you you were saying earlier about marketing to [00:53:00] or marketing to stereotypes to stereotypes. I think it's because, I mean, it's a double edged sword. Really? Um, they're so entrenched the stereotypes that it works. Like if you're going to have a poster for a gay party, I always tend to use really stereotypical images like a drag queen and a This sounds really bad, but a gay looking topless guy, Um, because whether you identify with the stereotype or not, when you walk down the street and you see 100 posters [00:53:30] for different events, you instantly recognise that it's aimed at you. Um, so while stereotypes aren't ideal, um, and probably quite damaging, um, they also can work in your favour for attracting, um, the market you're you're looking for. So yeah, it's it's really a double edged sword. In the time that you've been helping out with the event, have you had any surprises? I guess one of the main surprises we've had from out in the square is, I think the first [00:54:00] two or three years it rained the event. The first year we had it at Civic Square, it rained quite badly, and we found that people still came, which was a big surprise. And the following two years after that, we had to use our rain date, which was the Sunday, um, which isn't ideal. And you would think that, um, there'd be a lot of interest lost, but they tended to It was quite surprising that they tended to still be quite popular. Um, and a lot of the stall holders, um, were able to still come [00:54:30] the next day, which was really good, because a lot of them come from out of town. So the and stuff like that, Um, so I think it was quite surprises to see that, um, you know, even if the event gets rained off, it's it's still quite popular. So I think we've got a really good event to work with that that people love, which is it shouldn't be surprising, but yeah, it can be just going back to one of the first questions, which was, you know, can you identify the key elements of a successful [00:55:00] event? I'm just wondering after we've talked for just over an hour. Um, about all of these things. Is it possible for you to bullet point a couple of things that if you had to say to somebody, these are the things to do to make a successful event, What would that be? Firstly, don't be too ambitious. Don't, um It can be really easy to try and make the event of your dreams in the first time. Um, and I think things [00:55:30] take a bit longer to get popular and and get support from from people who are going to, you know, support you. So I think start more would be one of them. Um, probably This sounds really obvious, but pay your bills like it can be really easy to burn bridges with. People say you use an event location, and somehow you've gone over budget, and you can't afford it. Um, even though you might think you're not going to use that event that venue anymore [00:56:00] or or something like that, it's not worth burning your bridges. So just, you know, make sure you can, um, break even. Um, also another thing in terms of parties, um, and things that require ticket sales. Don't be too. Um liberal with how many people are gonna come. I think it really helps to work on the worst case scenario. So say you love it. If 300 came, um, budget for 100 coming, um, that [00:56:30] tends to help. And then any extra that come as you know, it's a it's a surprise and a positive. Um uh, thing. Don't be too scared to ask people for help and support. Um, like we talked about the media before, don't be too scared to harass them. Also, um, businesses that have, um, some sort of connection with the event you're doing. I mean, in terms of this, it's gay events. Um, so, you know, don't be too embarrassed to go to the businesses, like, say, bars, um, [00:57:00] saunas, even the the business associations, like, um, and Rainbow Wellington, and just ask for support. Um, a lot of the time they have, you know, people that at least people that know what they're talking about that could help you or or financial support. Um, just don't be scared or too shy to put put yourself out there and ask for help. Um, and also probably the last thing would be, um, don't be too proud. If people [00:57:30] say something's bad, try not to assume it's because they're just being negative and actually look into what it is they're saying and try and see it from their point of view and not your point of view. Um, and that can only really, um, help in in the future, I think. But yeah, that might be I can't really think of anything else. Just finally, Why do you do these events? Oh, I think because I'm a control [00:58:00] freak, to be honest. And, um, I spent probably five years, um, after I came out going to events, and I tend to look at them and think of things that I think could be done better. Um, which is kind of rude, I suppose. Um, but I I have I think I enjoy, um, the idea of of trying to make things better, [00:58:30] um, than than than I think they are, which is probably quite rude. But, um, it keeps me excited, and I always want to better myself and every event. You know, the next event needs to be better and better and better. Um, or else I'll just lose interest. So I think mainly it's it's the challenge, and and that's why I do it. And also I'm studying. So I have a bit of time. Things might change when I'm, you know, back to work. Um, but yeah, probably. Mainly the the challenge [00:59:00] making people happy like it's a really big thing in the queer community to have to lessen the amount of negative comments because people tend to comment negatively. Um, before they'll praise you. So also, that's, uh, that's one of my little goals is to, um, is to get those negative comments, um, down as much as possible.

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