This page features computer generated text of the source audio. It may contain errors or omissions, so always listen back to the original media to confirm content. You can search the text using Ctrl-F, and you can also play the audio by clicking on a desired timestamp.
Oh, as the as Labour's chair of our rainbow caucus. Um, it gives me great pleasure today to, um to welcome, uh, our minister, the honourable Chris, to make an announcement Our Rainbow Caucus, and have been out today visiting our rainbow organisations. [00:00:30] We just came from Rainbow Youth New Zealand AIDS Foundation uh, Rainbow tick to, um engage and spend time with our most precious communities that support rainbow people. I'd like to acknowledge, uh, our MP S that are with us today. Uh, Glenn Bennett, Theresa Gorby, Angela Roberts who are here from across the nation and to pass on our our broader greetings from our Rainbow Caucus members that are also out and about doing the good [00:01:00] work that they do. I'd like to particularly welcome my colleague Maya Lubeck, uh, who has done a lot of work over her time in parliament. Um, on this particular issue that we're discussing today, conversion practises and, uh, how proud of who I am in the lead up to today and the work that she has done. Our current parliament is the highest representation of rainbow MP S in any, uh, legislative group [00:01:30] and the most that labour has ever had to. But more than almost every MP has either a child who identifies as rainbow or someone who is very close to them amongst their broader whanau. And living authentically is not just an issue for rainbow New Zealanders. We all come from families and communities that are enriched by our lives as we are by their and their support. So it's my honour today to introduce a friend, [00:02:00] a colleague, Um, and today our minister, uh, the Honourable Chris, Minister of Justice, and Chris, thank you very much for coming, uh, on our rainbow caucus visit, actually, uh, to make this very special announcement and to all of you and all of our rainbow at home, I very much look forward to the contribution that you get to make throughout our select committee process. Uh um, [00:02:30] can I, uh, like Shannon, begin by acknowledging our parliamentary colleagues behind us. Uh, and I want to make sure I point out, uh, my for her commitment, Um, in the previous term, uh, to this issue And, uh, her commitment to making sure that we move, uh, to make sure that this piece of legislation, uh, goes through the house as soon as possible. Can I also acknowledge Claire and her team, uh, from outline for for hosting us? Uh, this afternoon, Uh, and the who are behind us? Uh, this afternoon, Um, I'm really happy today, uh, to [00:03:00] say that the government has introduced legislation to protect people from practises that seek to convert a person's sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression. Uh, known as conversion practises. They claim to be able to change a person's sexuality or gender. The practises have no basis in science, are widely discredited and can often cause serious and lasting mental and emotional damage for those who are subjected to them. Uh, in developing the conversion practises prohibition legislation, Bill, [00:03:30] uh, the Ministry of Justice held discussions with survivors of such practises. The rain bay community representatives, faith groups, and provisional health bodies. Uh, views were sought from a diverse range of voices and experiences from ethnic and cultural groups, religious beliefs, sexualities and gender identities. Uh, these discussions through the engagement confirmed conversion practises, can cause serious harm, including serious, uh, severe depression and anxiety, isolation and alienation, increased feelings [00:04:00] of shame and grief. Uh, difficulties with forming relationships, substance abuse, Uh, and possible risk of suicide. Uh, some research identifies survivors of conversion practises experiencing symptoms also of post traumatic stress disorder. There can be no justification for trying to force someone to change their sexuality or gender identity. Uh, many of New Zealand's faith based communities have spoken out against conversion practises, the Salvation Army, saying such practises have been widely [00:04:30] discredited and that its organisation recognises the emotional, psychological, social and spiritual harms that the practises have caused. The diocese across New Zealand and elsewhere in the world have also moved to pass motions rejecting and condemning gay conversion practises. The UN rapporteur of freedom of religion or Belief, Ahmed Shaheed, recently stated that legislative measures prohibiting individuals and institutions from attempting to change or suppress a person's [00:05:00] sexual orientation or a person's gender identity do not violate the the right to freedom of religion or belief. He also see someone's ability to believe whatever they wish about sexuality or gender diversity, including whether it requires treatment as protected by the right to freedom of religion or belief. However, and this is important. He does warn that when such beliefs target the LGBT plus individuals with attempts to change or suppress their sexual [00:05:30] orientation or gender identity and inflict harm that that is not protected by international human rights law. And that is what we are proposing. And that isn't why that is why that's that is why this legislation is in step with this view. This bill will not outlaw a person's right to hold personal beliefs about sexual orientation or gender identity. It will not stop parents having conversations with their Children or pastors with parishioners who may be wrestling with their sexuality or gender identity. [00:06:00] And it will not stop parents or religious leaders from offering support. But the bill does draw a line between supporting someone and going beyond that to intentionally change their sexual orientation or gender identity. The bill creates two new criminal offences where there is heightened risk of harm, and the bill also uses criminal and civil law to prohibit and deter conversion practises. Uh, in terms of the criminal provisions, as in the case of conversion practises performed on people under the age of 18 or with [00:06:30] impaired decision-making capacity, or where it can be demonstrated that a person has suffered serious harm as a result of those conversion practises. These criminal offences are intended to capture particularly serious cases and to send a clear message that conversion practises are unacceptable because criminal proceedings will not always be an appropriate response. The bill also creates a civil pathway for redress. Using the Human Rights Commission, existing complaint system and the civil pathway will allow for a more constructive [00:07:00] and educative process with a focus on remedying harm and preventing it from happening again. Prohibiting conversion practises brings us in line with other countries such as Germany, the US and several Australian states, and we understand that the likes of Canada and Britain are also currently considering prohibition. Conversion practises have no place here in New Zealand. They are discriminatory and outdated and cause real, serious and life altering harm to Taku and people in their rainbow communities. They infringe on the rights and freedoms [00:07:30] guaranteed to those communities, particularly their freedom to express who they are. We made a promise at the last election that we would legislate against such practises and that is what we are doing with the introduction of the Conversion Practises Prohibition Legislation bill today. The bill will have its first reading in early August, Uh, after which public the public can make submissions to a select committee is our government's aim to have the legislation passed by early next year. Uh, by banning conversion practises in New Zealand, the government intends [00:08:00] to enhance the ability of our rainbow communities to enjoy their rights and freedoms free from harm and discrimination. Happy to take any questions very long time. So I don't think it's taken that long at all. Actually, we made the commitment in our manifesto, uh, at the election last September or october. Uh, and we're here now, making sure that, uh, it comes into the house next week. Uh, and we hope to have it passed by, uh, early [00:08:30] next year. It has been a commitment that we made a promise that we made. And we're keeping it vulnerable to these sort of Look, I think that we we've got the civil and criminal regimes, and I think you got to look at the purpose of the bill. Um, it is to prevent harm and to encourage the discussions about sexual orientation and gender identity to continue to happen. So, uh, with this bill again, uh, will, will will allow those discussions that are already happening, uh, in amongst whether it be [00:09:00] a faith based organisation, Uh, a family or a sports club or any other institution or a group in our community. What it does do is prevent harm from continuing to happen. There are people behind me who have much better. Um, uh, experiences of listening to those kinds of things and experiencing themselves. We know the conversion practises don't work. We know they cause harm. We need to make sure we prevent those harms and make sure there are healthy discussions going on about people with sexual orientation and their gender identity. Serious [00:09:30] harm is too high of a bar. Um, well, the the the bill clearly states what serious harm is, uh, and again, we only want to be dealing dealing in a criminal sense with serious cases. Um, that's why the the the the the design of the criminal provisions with this within this legislation, um, are very clear. Um, it it has to be a conversion practise, which is directed at someone because of their sexual orientation or their gender identity has to be with the intent of changing [00:10:00] that, and that goes against the fundamental human right that everybody has again, whether it's, uh, for an adult or a minor, you have to see you have to prove either harm or serious harm. And the bill clearly states what serious harm is. Then it goes back to, uh, what the police usually do. Uh, and they have to gather evidence for that. And then again, for something to go to court, um, the attorney general of the country has to consent to it, uh, the the the to, um, to that going to court. So there's a very high [00:10:30] bar for that, um, criminalization to deal with serious crimes. The purpose of this legislation, though, is not to criminalise people. It is to prevent harm that is already happening in our communities and also make sure that these conversations where people are expressing their sexual orientation and their gender identity could happen in a safe way. So they need to prove serious. Uh, because again, if it's a criminal provi, if if we're talking about the criminal [00:11:00] provisions, we only want the serious cases to get to to go down a criminal route, there is a civil liability where we ask where we are banning conversion practises and also saying, If there's a complaint or serious harm isn't uh, proven, then you are able to go to the Human Rights Commission to be able to get seek remedy there. Look, people [00:11:30] will also have the ability to to get legal aid, which is available to them now. I think once we've got this legislation passed, one of the conversations that we have to have with the Rainbow community, uh is what What? What do we do to assess and to make sure that these kinds of safe conversations around sexual orientation and gender identity are happening? Uh, there are some within our community, so we have to be educated a little bit more, uh, about what is safe. Um, but I think that mostly, uh, people in faith communities [00:12:00] and people of, uh, and families understand these situations. It is the extreme harm that we're trying to make sure we deal with in a criminal sense, but also giving a clear message that these conversion practises don't work and cause serious harm and giving a criminal and civil route for those, uh, for instances where they may happen. Is there any help for people who have been. [00:12:30] Look, I don't know the answer to that question about what is precisely available, but the government, through a number means offers assistance for the likes of, uh, Rainbow Communities. I think we put about $4 million into rainbow Mental health, uh, earlier this year to assist them. Uh, if they if they are suffering mental illnesses as a result of something like this again, um, legal aid might be available for someone to take a case, but we don't want cases to end up in court. We prefer, as is the purpose of this bill, um, that we're preventing [00:13:00] that harm. The conversion practises aren't happening because we know they don't work. Uh, and that these open, uh, and, uh, respectful conversations around sexual orientation and gender expression can happen. Look, it's really hard to to, uh, to to get a really good handle on that. We know what's happening. And the minister of justice, I think, engaged with about 100 people, uh, as it was doing its work, and there's still evidence of these things going on in pockets of our community again. I think, um, there are plenty of areas and communities where, uh, good [00:13:30] open discussions and support and counselling are happy to assist people if they declared their sexual orientation or their gender identity. Uh, or if people are working through that About what? Who they think they might be, um, where it becomes an issue. If people intentionally try to change or suppress that, uh, where which is causing harm. That's a thing we've got to stop, Um, because it is causing serious harm. We've had scenarios of people being suicidal that has come through some of the engagement from the Ministry of Justice. And again, we need to prevent that kind of thing happening [00:14:00] there. Clearly. Uh, look, um, we're still in the very early stage of the hate speech legislation. It's a discussion document. Uh, where submissions, Uh, end in about six days time. Um, but we, you know, again to the first question, we made a commitment here to make sure that these practises, um, are are outlawed are banned because they do not work and they cause more harm. Again, I think this legislation protects two really [00:14:30] important freedoms. First, the the freedom and the right for everyone to be who they are, uh, and to explore who they might want to be. Uh, and no one should be able to change that, but also that there is, um, a protection within this legislation, for the likes of the faith community to be able to continue to express their religious beliefs and principles. Whether that is in line with the rainbow community or not, it's really important that we protect both of those, uh, freedoms. But when it goes, um, beyond that to changing or suppressing someone's [00:15:00] sexual orientation or gender, uh, gender identity and that's where harm gets caused and which we which we need to prevent the national party. So I called, um, I've had some discussions with other political parties this week. Um, as you will know, um uh, the National Party in principle, um, has supported it, but they wanted to wait till they saw a legislation. Um, they they now have the ability to do that. I've also had a conversation with the Maori party, and I understand that the [00:15:30] Green Party is supportive. So, look, um, uh, out of respect, um, for this issue, there should be no politics in it. Um, so it's a really important issue for the rainbow community. If those other parties, like the National Party, have issues with the bill, we'll respectfully listen to those and work through those through the select committee. Um, through the select committee process, we want to make sure that this piece of legislation gets passed for religious groups who are [00:16:00] opposed to this. I mean, what do you say to them? And they still So my my message to them is to have a good look at the bill, Um, in the bill, uh, there is a protection for them to continue to be able to express their religious beliefs and principles. If that is against, uh, uh, people's sexual identity in their gender expression, they have the right to do that. What no one has the right to do, whether it's faith based or at a rugby club, [00:16:30] uh, or at a educational institute is to say to someone who knows who they are that they should change who they are. And that's why these two protections are really important. A. To allow people to have the right as an individual to be and express who they are. But also, if you have a deeply held religious beliefs about, uh, about people being homosexual or gender, um, gender diverse. Then you're entitled to that opinion, but no one should be able to be able to change someone's expression of who they are.
This page features computer generated text of the source audio. It may contain errors or omissions, so always listen back to the original media to confirm content.
Tags