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I've been sort of into writing for a very long time. Um, very long time. I, uh, wrote from about the age of five. I think it was I was writing, like, complex stories and so on and at when I was about not even at eight. My school actually, um, published one of the stories I wrote for the school library and so on. And as far as I'm aware, it's still there at their library. Um, so I've always loved writing. And, um, once I got to university, I went into [00:00:30] doing some freelance writing for, uh, role playing game companies. So it's like writing short stories and sort of advice on how to play games and so on. And then I got offered a A gig, doing some online, um, articles about my thoughts about gaming and, um, communities and the social aspect of it. But I didn't really get into film until about 2005. Um, after doing 48 [00:01:00] hour film challenge, I sort of was like, Well, you know, we did. We made a film in a weekend. Why can't we do this like every weekend? Well, not quite every weekend, but you know more regularly. Why? Why wait for one time a year to make some small film and learn some skills? So that was my original plan. And I? I, um, hadn't really been doing a lot of writing for a while, and I've been feeling kind of a bit sort of aimless and shiftless in my work. So I was like, I wanted to sort of get back to my creative outlet. And I wrote a Web series [00:01:30] called The Winding City and that went through quite a bit of development. Um, and my whole Oh, you know, we can shoot a show and, like, you know, a weekend and, you know, with planning we can we can shoot like, a couple of episodes and it's all good turned out to be about a year and a half worth of work, which was a really good sort of educational experience. And the difference between doing something that's small scale and then something that gets larger. And the thing with Winding City was that as [00:02:00] we sort of developed it, it became clear that it was going to be a much bigger, um, event. So that's how I kind of got into film was I'd always loved film, and I've always loved movies, but I'd never really considered myself a writer for movies. Um, and it wasn't until I did that, and everyone really liked the script and they liked the work. And I just found that I loved the whole process of making a film. It's a very different process to writing prose, and when you see the end result because it's not just [00:02:30] your work, it's a whole bunch of other people. To me. It's kind of like rediscovering the story over and over again and just falling in love with it again and again and again and again. And so, yeah, it just sort of became this this thing for me. Um, And then after that, I decided to try and go back to my original idea with a series called Urban Nomina, which is much smaller scale. And that was just basically, we write a script and then we shoot it in the weekend, and then we put it out the next week online. Um and [00:03:00] you know, just take the, you know, insults and praise as they come. Um, and that was a very chaotic experience, but again, it was kind of a learning experience for me as far as the limitations of film and film making and like the demands when you're working without a budget and you're trying to sort of get a whole bunch of really eager people to work together. So it was It was a great experience, and I think the the result of both those projects were while zero budget projects were still I'm [00:03:30] still quite proud of them because they were like going from having no knowledge to suddenly having by, um, 2011. Having done more, we we shot approximately a feature films worth of footage between the two shows. Um, in fact, no probably feature film and a half with footage. Um, that was actually quite a feather in my cap. Um, considering that a lot of people will say that they want to make film, and then they just they [00:04:00] allow themselves to sort of get a bit sort of intimidated by the work that is involved and the costs and being able to sort of hopefully show people that you can actually do something, and that's at least get yourself at the point where you can then start making plans and get a bit more ambitious after that. So what are the special things about writing for film? Um, unlike, say, writing prose? Well, writing for pros is I mean, they're both [00:04:30] quite organic processes, but prose is quite organic and that you often have a much rougher outline like you'll often have ideas of where you want the story to go and you'll you'll sometimes plan out a skeleton. But the story kind of rates itself, as as you get into writing prose, because you you very rarely go from the back to the front. You you start, there's a person. It's a dark, rainy night, and then your story kind of flows on from there. So, like [00:05:00] you'll have your characters laid out and so on. But the whole process is a lot more organic and and you kind of discover it that way, whereas with film, you've kind of got to be a lot stricter about what you're going to say. Um, often, I found with prose, you often discovered your themes and ideas as you wrote the story. Um, because often the story would kind of evolve as as you were telling it, whereas in film you've kind of got to know what you're wanting to say before you say it because, [00:05:30] um, once your script is written, someone else is gonna have to do other work, and then you might be going back and doing rewrites. But someone else is already now working with the assumption that this is the story. And whereas with prose you can always change the story later on. So there there is a a lot more discipline involved. I think in in the planning stage, uh, with film like you've got to say, this is what I'm going to do and then you do that. And then if you want to make changes, you've got to make so many people aware of what [00:06:00] the changes are going to be, because then they've got to make decisions as well. Um, from a first draught, though it tends to be very similar. Um, the big difference with film, of course, is that you got to think visually. Um, and so you've got to stop thinking about how do I describe what the person's thinking and find a way of? Well, how would I show what the person's thinking because you can't just have a person, Of course, say this is what I'm thinking because how [00:06:30] many people in the real world do that? So you've got to be able to understand what kind of facial expressions, what kind of actions would they do? What kind of decisions would they make that would hint to the audience what's going on in the brain without telling them what's going on in the brain? Because your script can't say that you can't say in your script. Oh, blah, blah, blah is thinking this because it just it. How are you gonna show that? So you've got to imply it through through the action. So it's a very different kind of writing experience and very challenging. [00:07:00] What are your favourite genres in film? 001 of my favourite genres. I like, um, a lot of that kind of speculative fiction genre, so I like fantasy and sci-fi, but I'm also a big horror fan, and I love romantic comedies. I'm a bit of a softy at heart, so I like those. But I also like, um, thrillers and action. So I I've got a very eclectic taste. Um So when I was up in Auckland with [00:07:30] my mum over Christmas as an example, over the course of three days, I went to three movies that I all loved. And they were like hunting games August, Osage County. And then we watched the life of pie and then top it all off with rock of ages. And it was kind of like, Wow, that's quite a lot of different stuff to all go through in four days. Um, so yeah, yeah, I, I do like I'm I'm very passionate about just stories in general. So if it's a really good story, then I'm in. [00:08:00] Yeah, and in terms of your own writing What? What? What are you working on? I found that I did a lot of fantasy, and one of my goals as a writer is to try and challenge myself out of being in a particular glut. Um, well, not a glut, but a particular genre, because some writers they'll have a genre that they love to write, and they and they'll write that, and they they will perfect their skill at that. But, um, I like to challenge myself. So I I want to avoid [00:08:30] always doing the same genre. So I've done a lot of urban fantasy stuff. I think that's kind of my my biggest sort of strengths because I just kind of always end up going to that kind of magical realism place. Um, but for example, the next film that I plan to do once House of Memories is kind of under way, and I'm I'm free to start doing some more. Writing on other stuff is actually I'm thinking of doing a dance movie, um, which will have no fantasy and no magic, no weirdness, [00:09:00] no horror. It's just going to be a very simple story. Um, and, uh, I'm I'm currently doing a bit of research on that. So it'll be interesting because I an OK dancer I. I can I can move on the dance floor. But I'm not at any point someone who would get in front of a camera and do a synchronised dance routine or anything like that. So I think it'll be a fun challenge. So you mentioned the house of memories. Tell me about that. Well, the House of Memories is my current project, and this is, [00:09:30] um, a large feature film. Um, my goal is to do it on a zero or low budget, which basically means low budget is kind of you're looking at around $100,000. 0 budget means exactly what it sounds like. You you might be making it for, like, 1000 bucks if you're lucky. Um, so that sets some challenges, especially because it's a horror and it's an existential horror. So that means that there's a lot of very weird things going on, and there will be visual effects or some kind of special effects required. And [00:10:00] so, if you're going to do that with no money, you got to really think about when you're writing it. How can I write this in a way that's not going to limit me but also isn't gonna break the bank if we come to budgeting time? So at the moment, I'm trying not to think about the budget. Um, House of memories was, um, a result of a challenge. Actually, Um, that, uh, I have a few friends who are actresses, and they were talking about how there was just no work for [00:10:30] for female actors out there, and then that kind of came at the same time that someone was talking about how there's just not a lot of gay cinema out there and that there was a lot of cinema where it's just basically your your traditional white, straight male, as is the lead. And that's what the story is about. And there's nothing wrong with those kinds of stories. I mean, I love those kinds of stories, but I thought it would be a great challenge to write an ensemble piece that would try and have as many powerful female characters in there who are powerful. [00:11:00] Bite into the character not by, you know, having muscles or, you know, the the traditional strong woman who's all like I fight. And I wanted to have strong women who are strong real women. So these were people who were just strong personalities, knew who they were, um, and so I wanted to have an ensemble because I wanted it to have as many opportunities as possible without being ungainly. And that's quite a challenge. And the other challenge was that I had to write it In 48 hours. Um, a friend [00:11:30] of mine decided as a challenge that we would do 48 hour write a phones where we basically lock ourselves in a house and we write a feature film script in 48 hours, and we have, like, a tele board and everything. So that was when the first draught got written, Um, which I'm very proud to say. It got written. I got the whole film done. It was about 87 pages, I think the original draught, Um and it was terrible, really bad. But even then, um, we could see that there was, like, a really interesting story there at the [00:12:00] at the base, you briefly mentioned gay cinema. And I'm just wondering, what is gay cinema? What does it mean to you? Well, that's a really good question. And and you hear it like queer film and gay cinema all the time. Um, to me, it's just any story that has a gay or a queer protagonist. I really should say queer protagonist rather than gay protagonists, because you know, there's more than just gay people out there in the community and [00:12:30] really needs. I think that it's really important that there is cinema out there that has, you know, lesbian and gay and trans and gender and asexuals lead characters and that these lead characters can be kind of role models for us as a community to be able to look up and go OK, you know, that is how I want my community to be. That's That's what I would love to sort of see not only within [00:13:00] the LGBTI community, but also to how other people will embrace our community and and sort of accept that, you know, we have our differences and we have our unique traits. But we're also all just like everyone else, and we have the same kind of problems and the same kind of worries and the same kind of conflict, um and yeah, to to give us something that we can look at and be proud of and so that you know, um, like when we go to a movie and we see like a character and we like, we really like that character and oh man, [00:13:30] I really see myself as that character. I think you know, it's really healthy to be able to show a queer main character who's not going through just queer issues. But it's actually having an experience that someone who's not queer can also relate to. And then I kind of I guess in my optimistic world hoped that that would, um, and help foster an understanding that, you know, really, [00:14:00] we we've all got the same kind of things. And this this whole thing of like us and them kind of mentality just kind of melts away when you realise that, Yeah, there's some things that happen differently in in our lives. But we still face a lot of the same challenges and the same sort of things. So do you think a gay film needs to have, uh, gay characters or be outwardly gay? Or is it more what's behind the scenes, like the screenwriter or the [00:14:30] director or the cast and crew? Yeah, I remember being at a workshop for outtakes where that question came up as well, and it's a tough question to answer. Um, I think if we if we're looking at, like a festival situation where you've got like, a queer festival, I think it's good enough that the films have a queer director or someone who's quite integral to the film being queer. [00:15:00] That, to me, is good enough for it to make it into a festival I think getting really particular about the festival having to have, like, loads of queer content on the screen. I think that's just creating unnecessary boxes. Um, for people. I, I think you do need to be honest to your audience that there will be some films here that won't necessarily be a primarily queer narrative. Um, but the reason we're including this is because the director is queer or the writer is queer. And, [00:15:30] you know, we want to support them, because we do. We do want to see those people getting, uh, getting an opportunity, especially if their films are good. So at the end of the day, as long as the films something that people are gonna want to see, um, I don't see why we have to be too concerned about whether the queerness is on the screen or it's behind the screen getting that film made. Um, unless, of course, you know, it happens to be a film with a queer director. That's all about how horrible queers are. And then maybe [00:16:00] we might have to have a conversation. Um, but other than that, yeah. So tell me, as a screenwriter, how you convey, um somebody's sexuality on screen or or gender identity. What are the things that you do to add into your script that focus on those areas? Yeah, um, I'm actually going to be quite ballsy and say not a lot. Um, one of the biggest things I tend to do is I just write them like normal people. [00:16:30] And, um, you generally find out about their sexuality in context. I'm I'm generally against having my characters like, you know, the first thing you see about them is like they they come out and they go, I'm gay. Um, But having said that in House of memories, um, I have two queer couples in that and the first queer couple. It's pretty obvious from the minute you see them that they're a couple and that they're queer, but [00:17:00] it's not through any particular dialogue. I just have them behaving like a loving couple with each other. And the fact that they're two guys is the only real cue that they like. They don't sort of use any sort of fancy sort of lingo or, um and I do describe them as kind of just really normal guys. One of them is kind of a bit. I wouldn't say camp, but he's he's definitely, um he looks after himself quite a bit. So he's [00:17:30] very model like and very perfect hair and perfect skin. And so on. Um, which depend? I kind of wanted to leave it open to the director or casting to decide how sort of they they want to cast that character, um, and the lesbian couple in it again. It's not overtly stated until quite late in the film that, you know there are a couple, but it really obvious from their relationship and how they talk to each other and the fact that they're the only two people living [00:18:00] in the house. Um, and they share the same bedroom. It's not hiding it. It's that I just don't sort of feel the need to have everyone sort of classify themselves when you meet them. I just sort of think if you can write them naturally, like real people like you will just know that they're queer because that's just the the situation that they're in and so on. Um, I'm just always reminded of my lesbian friend who, you know. It's not like the first time I met her. She was like, Oh, I'm a lesbian [00:18:30] And it was just, you know, she walked in with her girlfriend, who you knew that was all you needed. You didn't need to have people going around sort of introducing themselves and classifying themselves. And I tried to do the same with my writing. Um, we have a trans character in the film as well, and there was a lot of thought I put into how I would represent that because, of course, you want to have in the script it clear that the character is Trans because, ideally, I would like to actually have a trans actress play the part. [00:19:00] Um, but you don't want to put in the script like that. I kind of felt very uncertain about whether to actually label her in the script as Trans or because, you know, I want to describe her, how the audience would see her when she steps out of the car the first time. So she's actually described as a woman. Um, and then the very quickly there's a conversation that gets mentioned that another person [00:19:30] referred to her as James, which was her name before she transitioned, Um and then it becomes obvious throughout the script that she's, uh, she's a trans woman. But she wasn't um, yeah, it wasn't really. I didn't want that to be her defining trait in the film. And hopefully, um, that comes across in the script is that [00:20:00] what's important about her is who she is as a person and that it was just important to me that there was a transgender character represented in there who wasn't represented as I'm a transgender character and I'm having issues being transgendered. It was. I'm a transgender character. I'm I've gone through all my crap. I'm I know who I am. I'm happy with who I am. My friends are happy with who I am, and now we're just moving forward with with the story of the struggles that I'm facing in this situation [00:20:30] that I'm in, Um, which has got nothing to do with my gender. It's to do with myself as a person, and that's kind of a different thing. So I hope that kind of makes sense. That might have been a bit confusing. How do you know if the script is working? I mean, do you kind of workshop it or do you bounce it off, people? Um, I do have a few friends that I send my scripts out to and sort of ask for notes, Um, and particularly when you're doing something like I I'm working on. Whereas I want a film that can be identified as [00:21:00] queer cinema both behind the camera and in front, but will appeal to a broad audience because I want want it to be a film that, um you know, uh, your standard everyday movie going audience can go to and they will still enjoy, and they won't sort of feel excluded or uncomfortable. Um, except when you know, it's a horror. So of course, they're gonna feel a little uncomfortable. Um, but yeah, they're not gonna feel too challenge. So I tend to send it out to a variety of friends [00:21:30] from various different sort of groups to sort of get their feedback and input. Um, because it is important to me to try and capture something that's going to have a broad appeal, Um, without sort of sacrificing too much of what I want in there as well. Um, the other thing is that, uh, through eat, um, the emerging artists trust. Uh, I got involved with a writers' workshop. Um and so the [00:22:00] way that that workshop works is that we've got 16 writers and 16 actors, give or take. And then once a month, the writers get to bring in about 20 pages of the script. The actors perform it in a kind of A it's kind of a reading, but there there is acting as well. And then, uh, after we have sort of given some feedback to the actors about their performances and so on, the writer will sit down and the other writers and actors will give feedback about, um, how it felt to act, [00:22:30] what was obvious to the actors. What was obvious to the writers. And the writers will discuss, like the sort of narrative mechanics and what worked and what didn't. And so you get a lot of feedback and, um, then once a month, we do one piece that will be the whole film will get acted out, and that's what we did just last week for House of Memories. So I got to see all 116 pages performed. Um, and that really helped. That [00:23:00] really helps to to sort of get some feedback and an idea of how the audience is because we get an audience in and they get to sort of give us some notes about how they felt about it and what worked for them and what didn't and how confusing things were. So what is that experience like? Because I imagine it would be quite nerve wracking. I was a complete wreck heading into that. I was really nervous. Um, I, I hope I managed to sort of quell most of it when I was talking to people. But I [00:23:30] was really kind of worried that everyone was going to hate it or that nobody would get what I was trying to do. Um, I probably should be a bit clearer about what the story is. Um, so the story of House of Memories is following a friend's suicide. Eight friends gather in the house that they pretty much grew up in together. Um, it's a big mansion, and they get haunted by the ghosts of themselves [00:24:00] as teenagers. And these ghosts want, uh, basically demanding answers about why now in their thirties, they haven't turned out the way that they thought they were going to um And then in the process of that challenge, um, they begin to learn that there's something more sinister about the house. Um, that could mean that their past will get forgotten as well as their futures. Um, so that's it in a nutshell. And of course, when you got eight characters [00:24:30] and then eight younger versions of those characters, it can get quite chaotic. So it was very important that at the end of the piece, the audience could then say to me, Yes, I got what was going on. Um, which the most part, they did the most part. Um, but yeah, the feedback was really good. And so we had about 17 actors on stage because there are some other characters as well, and we still had people doubling up on roles. Um, but we managed [00:25:00] to everyone. All the feedback was mostly that people got the gist of what was going on, and there was a lot of positive feedback about the fact that it is a film about not about death or violence or anything. It is a film about sort of regret and loss, and about how friendships change over the years because you get to see what these people are like as friends when they were teenagers and how that's changed as their friends Now in their thirties. Um, and [00:25:30] there were three sort of key storylines that run through that, um, which are two couples and two friends who are trying to sort of come to terms with the difference between past and their futures. Did the audience surprise you? They did. Um, I was seriously expecting probably harsher feedback than I got, which was good. Um, [00:26:00] I did. I didn't get glowing. Everything's perfect. But I did get glowing feedback. Um, that, um, was all about how much I'm on the right track with this story. And it was great having, um, just straight, um, audience members also admitting that they loved it. They they they identified with the characters they identified with the story, and that was [00:26:30] really important to me. Um, and one of the other really cool, cool bits of feedback I got was one person, um, about midway through the reading. He started getting serious stomach cramps, but he didn't want to leave because he wanted to find out how it ended. So he actually suffered through crippling pain to see how the story ended. And then when it was ended, he he had to had to leave. And then he contacted me later and said that he loved it and and thought it was really good and that he just had to had [00:27:00] to find out what happened to these characters, which I was very proud of. Um, but it wasn't all, Um yeah, it's not perfect because it's still only an early draught. So that was also good to get the feedback on what wasn't working and what got people a bit confused. And they were able to sort of highlight for me areas where I could improve and areas where they felt that maybe there needed to be some changes, and then I could go Well, I don't really want to change that because that [00:27:30] works the way that I want it to work. It's more a case of me now figuring out How can I make it clearer in the piece that this is what I'm aiming at with the scene and then, if that can, If I can communicate that better, then I can keep what I want. And then if I can't communicate it better. Then I now know what I need to do to make it work, even if it might not be what I originally wanted to do. And I think that that's important. And it is very important in film to be able to, um, put ego aside a bit [00:28:00] and go OK, that just didn't work. I love it and it's brilliant and it's awesome to me, but that's not necessarily what the film needs. The film needs to be something that other people are going to embrace and want. So so you have to be able to sort of admit when it's just you not willing to let go of something. And when it's something or it's just you not being able to communicate quite what you want wanted to say, How do you get that balance [00:28:30] between doing something for a mainstream audience and something for a queer audience? How do How do you balance that out? Oh, very carefully, Um, I. I think it goes back to my my standard view that the it it it's like writing, um, female characters, in my view, is that the first thing you do is you stop thinking about them [00:29:00] as a queer character or a female character or a male character or something, and you just think about them as a person. And then you write that person just like you would write any other person and then if you can change their gender or their sexuality, and it still sort of stands solid as a as a believable person, Um, then you're on the right track. Um, obviously, there will be some differences, Um, some things that are important to women and not important to guys and some things that are important to queer people and not important [00:29:30] to straight people. But those are kind of details that just come up in language. They're not really details in personality as such. Um, and and I always find that as long as if I play, you know, switch around. Um, and I still believe that this is a person and not just, you know, the writer talking to me or telling me, um Then I think I usually think I'm on the right track and with, um, winding city [00:30:00] and urban. No, um, the feedback that I got on both of those shows was very much the same. Was that because I wrote the characters with Let's have a person in mind rather than a stereotype or an archetype or anything like that? Um, I found that a lot of straight audiences found that the queer characters quite relatable and quite identifiable. But the queer audience also found them relatable and identifiable and didn't sort of feel like I was pandering to one audience or the [00:30:30] other. Um, and that's really hard. And sometimes, you know, my earlier draughts will feel like, you know, Oh, well, I'm just writing a gay character for me, or I'm just writing a whatever character for this person. Um, but yeah, I, I Yeah, just think of them as people rather than and think of them as individuals rather than kind of like a blanket thing. And then you you tend to get it. You tend to hit it. So what happens after the workshop? You You You've just had the workshop. What [00:31:00] happens now? Well, um, the workshop is an ongoing thing. Um, and I'll be having to present 20 pages in about a week's time of a project, and I've decided to stick with House of mirrors because obviously I'm wanting to shoot it. Um, at the end of the year, Um, so I need to make sure that it's well ready for the next stage. Um, so the next step at the moment is to take all the feedback that people gave and then sift through it and work out well, what feedback am I willing to take on board? [00:31:30] And what feedback do I feel? Just doesn't really apply, at least at this point in time and then use that to do my rewrites. So, um, there is a lot of feedback that I got that I kind of questioned, um, not because it was wrong, but because it just wasn't quite what I if I follow it, it's not really going to get the film where I want it to be. So I've got to sit down and and consider that [00:32:00] feedback and consider how much of that is just me being a bit rebellious And how much of that is me being true to what I want to tell in my story. Um, so that's where I'm at at the moment is working there, and I've got about a week to get 20 pages done of it, but, um, most of the feedbacks really helped me figure that out already. So I already know what my 1st 20 pages rewrites is going to be, Um, and that gets start working on tomorrow, [00:32:30] actually, um, and then? Yeah. Then we just go through that whole process again.
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