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[00:00:30] um [00:01:00] um um, the first, the way I want to frame my talk about class is around, [00:01:30] um, collective well-being, I guess. Um, because classes class makes collective well-being impossible on a material level, Um, and on a social level as well. But, um, that's really the foundation of where I'm coming from in terms of Plus, I guess I should introduce myself in my own quite complex relationship with class. Um, the Maori side of my family is actually [00:02:00] the rich side, and I inherited money from that side of my family and as a as a result, I have my own house and I have some land, and, um, I derive a huge amount of material privilege from that. And when my mum died when I was five, I went to live with my dad who, um, has pretty much always been jobless. And so I'm on that side. I'm pretty much a third generation beneficiary. Um, [00:02:30] I, I feel in terms of my upbringing. Dad was my primary care of the end. He suffered a lot from the social stigma of class. He also really are resourceful and proud in a sense, um, of, um, coming from and close to the land. So a lot of the pain of, um poverty, I guess, was ameliorated by the fact we [00:03:00] had a really good relationship with the land and the sea. And so I never wanted for food, ever. And, um, but socially, I think it's always been the area that I've felt, um, disadvantaged the most socially, For one reason or another. Um, my upbringing was extremely violent. Um, my dad had a middle class girlfriend, and class has always felt gendered to me because [00:03:30] of that. Um, I love loyalty to him on that basis. And I saw his pain, I guess, on many levels that came about because of class, um, and the power dynamic between them, which was a class. There's class power dynamic between them. There's also a gendered power dynamic between them, which, um, I felt really keenly, so it's always felt like feminism. Class struggle has always felt a little bit separate for me, and in some ways, [00:04:00] those discourses have come apart. Um, and I've always been passionate about bringing them together. As a young person, I gravitated to a middle class dominated social scenes. Um, I felt safer. There from violence. Um, of my upbringing. I really wanted to get away from Logan. I was quite ashamed of it, but it sort of just keep resurfacing and resurfacing. I've, um Now I'm in a situation where I've found myself, [00:04:30] um, together with another Maori working class Maori, and it's never felt life has never felt so. I've never felt so much at home, and I've never felt so scared in the same way I did as when I was a child. So, um, because of the things that enter our lives because of colonisation and class coming together. So, yeah, that's me. And like, a little bit about my journey, Um, in terms of class. So [00:05:00] what I really want to talk about today is our collective well-being I want to talk about and, um, as concepts to help us, uh, achieve this. I guess. Um, we know that class divides us as Maori. We know that class divides us. Um, it's, uh, really interesting to go to and, [00:05:30] uh, my and stuff like that, and see that in action and see how that class interests on a really material level are really splitting us as a people in terms of what we want and what we want for our healing in terms of colonisation. Um, but I also think it's really interesting the way upward mobility can mitigate some of the racism that we experience [00:06:00] as Maori. And that's much more so for people who are more obviously Maori than myself. So I find it easy to pass as a and I get privileged from that. And it's not something that it's affected me hugely. But I've really noticed that with my I noticed that when we're walking down the street people, um, the the reactions of fear and obviously a big Maori guy people the reactions of fear [00:06:30] as well as, um, patronising attitudes, people pulling their kids out of the way. White women getting into the lift and white women go to the other side of the fucking lift. You know, it's like, what? What is this that we're dealing with about a stereotype? Um, and I go, I wonder if this would be if he coded himself as middle class. I wonder if he would be able to, um, mitigate some of that pain for himself, [00:07:00] and I think he has done that in the past and it has worked. But now he's like, Fuck it and, um, I and and because all it really is is a type of assimilation. Mostly what I find in terms of, um, when we code ourselves as middle class and we try to distance ourselves from those other, it's, um it's often about, you know, he's got an FO. So if he cut it off, um, he would look more [00:07:30] middle class. Probably. Um, we cut it and he had a certain type of haircut. He would look professional and middle class, and people would feel less intimidated if he didn't wear his leather jacket. People would feel less intimidated. He was wearing a suit. He would, you know, like people would. But that's to do with assimilation. That's to do with a certain type of civilization. Um so often being middle class or attaining class [00:08:00] privilege as a Maori means not being Maori. In a sense, there's lots of ways of being Maori, of course, and we want space for all of that. I don't want to say people who are coding themselves in middle class and not being Maori, but I'm saying that it's part of a simulation. Um, So what happens to people who don't assimilate who refuse to kind of do that thing? Who, because of their class, background or whatever [00:08:30] don't have don't have access to that or just think Fuck it. I just don't want to. On some level, they are resisting assimilation. And I mean, I find that on the white side, on my my side as well, there's a resistance. It's like, No, fuck it, Fuck it are not gonna do it, Um, even as they're also living with shame. Um, so what happens? But I was particularly interested in it to [00:09:00] do with how that affects Maori at the moment when we don't choose not to assimilate is so often, um, we are scapegoated. I mean, there's to me. There's lots of faces of assimilation. So there's the assimilating outwardly coding yourself, perhaps as as middle class in the context. So I'm talking about it. But there's also, um, not being civilised in other ways. [00:09:30] Um, Bell hooks and they're not always productive or good, and they're not always to do with Maori at all. It's just to do with I'm not buying this notion of civilization. So Bell hooks, talks about it in terms of, um, gangster culture and rap music. And, um, that it's kind of like expressing this really raw aspect, the the for the which is not political. [00:10:00] It's often expressing this really raw aspect of, um, sexism, racism, materialism, the most raw, um, expression of those things. So, um and and I think it's that raw expression of, um, sexism, for instance, that often ends up that Maori men get, um, sort of scapegoated for that where, actually, it's a systemic [00:10:30] problem that affects everybody. Middle class white guys sometimes get to get away with it because they express it in a in this way, which is OK, um, and sometimes it's not as harmful. But I. I still think that that scapegoating of, um, Maori men and and particularly what I'm talking about now that take the must kind of type and those reactions that I'm seeing my get in the street, uh, to do [00:11:00] with that is to do with your this expression of this thing, which is unacceptable, um, and I, I guess what? How this feeds into feminism is that we can do that as feminists, too. Um, sometimes in terms of the way we discuss certain types of violence. And I know I've always found that very confusing, as as a young person struggling to get away from violence but not wanting, but having such a strong loyalty to [00:11:30] to my, um So yeah, that's kind of what I have to say about that. I guess that what this comes back to is other is saying this thing that you're expressing, which is a part of our culture in general is the thing, which is the worst. And it's about distancing ourselves from the most raw expression of that thing. Um, and sometimes we need to do that. But I guess what I'm saying is that, [00:12:00] um it it leaves wahine, um, isolated as well. Um, and I I guess I feel like our connected well-being is about is about not other me. It's kind of like, um uh, it it's about not other on lots and lots and lots of levels. And I don't think compassion is something we [00:12:30] can escape. Um, I guess that I I find it interesting that with white working class, white, working class men are probably the group that activists and liberals give themselves permission to have contempt for, um if the expression of certain racist sexist whatever constructs is explicit, then people feel usually feel OK about [00:13:00] say, oh, illiterate dr or really class based slurs. That actually is still kind of OK in in political circles, because this is this one group that is somehow a bit of a lost cause. And I don't believe that I don't believe they lost cause, but, I mean, sometimes we don't want to put our energy into them, and that's fucking cool, because we don't have to. But I, I don't think we need to be, um, other that group as much [00:13:30] either. Um, so what does this have to do with man and man? Well, I think that and is a really interesting concept. Um, for me and in my process of decolonization, Um, because it encompasses monarchy, encompasses respect and power and care and [00:14:00] I I remember asking somebody How do you say respect and Maori isn't the verb to respect somebody. Um, they were like I'm like, fuck, that's a head trip. Because in English language, respect doesn't necessarily have to do with caring and nurturing. Um, but it does in Maori, and that is a primary place where we derive our mana. Um, I tell [00:14:30] you guys, the type of man man is a pretty complex. I mean, it's not an easily translatable con concept, but in terms of in terms of the kind of man, as in the work we do in this world that uplifts our mana OK, um, is, um, man, uh, is something that it it is connected to our ability to care for people. And for me, this is a bit of [00:15:00] for each other. This is a way out of class, um, classism and every other thing as well, um, as a way toward our collective well-being. And what I like about it, as a concept is it's good for all of us. Um, it wasn't thought of as far as I know. It wasn't thought of as a feminine trait, something that women do. Only it's actually something that's associated and an obligation for everybody [00:15:30] particularly. And, uh, it's not something that any of us can escape. Um, if we want to be able to stand in our power and it's something I, um, aspire to, I guess. And, um, I think it's a redemptive concept for our, um, and as a red of content for us as women as well. Um, I've found, like in my feminist journey [00:16:00] that, um I kind of used to think that I wasn't so keen on, um, there was a various groups of people who are just like fuck you. I'm not interested in you. Um, I now like, reframed it to me. I don't really have energy to do that right now rather than, you know, um, but other than you are not worth my time, because I I feel like that ends up. I end up standing on myself by by standing on them. So, [00:16:30] um, yeah. Oh. Killed everyone. Um, I'm feeling pretty nervous, and I've never done anything like this before, so just bear with me. Um, I just have a [00:17:00] quote that I would like to start with first, and this was written by a And he, um, is part of the crank feminist collective. And, um, there are a group of people of colour in the US, and, um, pretty amazing. So I recommend looking them up. Um, So this piece is, um, called the immediate need for, um emotional justice. And, um so I'm just gonna read the two first two paragraphs [00:17:30] of this article. Um, oppression is trauma. Every form of inequality has a trauma traumatic impact on the psychology, emotionality and spirituality of the oppressed. The impact of oppressive trauma creates cultural and individual wounding. This wounding produces what many have called a pain body or a psychic energy that is not tangible but can be sensed. And that becomes an impediment to the individual and collective ability to transform and negotiate their conditions. Emotional [00:18:00] justice is about working with this wounding, and it's about dividing us into our feelings and our bodies and finding ways to transform our collective and individual pains into power. Emotional justice requires that we find the feeling behind the theories. It call on us not just to speak to why somebody is something is problematic. So but to speak to the emotional texture of how it impacts us, how it hurts or how it brings up brings us joy or nourishment. Emotional justice is very difficult for many activists because historically most [00:18:30] activist spaces have privileged the intellect and logic over feeling and intuition. This is directly connected to sexism and misogyny because feeling and intuition are culturally and psychologically linked to the construct of women, a construct that we've all been taught to and validate and silence. So by extension, we invalidate and silence the parts that we link to a woman and in ourselves, our feelings, our situation and irrationality. Um, so, yeah, that's why, um where I'll start and [00:19:00] I guess classes, Um, not something that we talk about a lot, really? Or maybe monks working class people, but, um, and it feels quite vulnerable and quite raw. And it's not something that I can split from, Like, I'm obviously working class, and that is a big part of who I am. And I can't separate that. I can't theorise that. Oh, really? Sorry, OK, yeah. So I guess I can start with a little bit of my story. And, um, [00:19:30] I'll be talking a lot about institutionalisation and stigma relating to mental illness and, um, admissions to psychiatric hospitals and, um, prisons and gangs and, um, a bit about crime. So, um, I grew up in Dunedin in a working area, and I was raised by my mom. She was 16 when she gave birth to my brother and she was married at 16. That relationship ended, and, um, the father left and my brother's never seen him again, except when he joined a gang and they tracked him down and stood outside [00:20:00] his house. But, um, yeah, so and then she married my father, who was a taxi driver for most of my life. And my mom went from being, um, a beneficiary to sometimes working in caregiving. But, um, for most of my life, she was a beneficiary due to major mental health issues. So, um, and she is a product of rape, so she doesn't know her father. Um, so that plays a big part in her journey. And, um, there's a lot of, [00:20:30] um, shame around that and incest within her. So, um yeah, and that that's had a massive impact on who she is. And, um, Institutionalisation has played a part in, um, sexual abuse being perpetrated by members of her. And, um, her. Her brother was, um, put in an institution as a child who was sexually abused and then went on to sexually sexually abuse boys in my family, including my brother. Um, [00:21:00] he was kicked out of home at 15 and, um was sent to live with the abuser and then went on to join a gang and, um, as an as a drug recovering drug addict, an IV drug user. And, um, he's now on the methadone programme and doing pretty good, but, um, his life has been pretty screwed up by yeah, by by drugs and by abuse and post traumatic stress disorder that, um, led him to commit a crime that resulted in him being sent to prison for 3.5 years. [00:21:30] So I just think around institutionalisation and and prison and crime and just how that has a massive impact on people's ability to engage in the world. And, um, his opportunities for for work have been, you know, obviously majorly impacted. And, um so he still lives with that to this day and just to take yeah, and I guess, like, taking something that we talked about on the Facebook discussion around perception that poverty equals stupidity, is [00:22:00] is something that's really, um right. I think that we all face that and it's quite big in my you know, none of us have, um, like, I'm the first person to gain. Um or study education. And I left school at 14. My sister left school at 13. And, um, due to major mental health issues, and, um, we both entered alternative education, and I think that led me into this, like helping professions. And I think that a lot of working class women end up in those helping [00:22:30] professions because maybe there doesn't seem like a lot a lot of options and that we've had to, um, have that role in our own anyway. And, um yeah, and that was definitely a big part of my journey. My mother was, like, in and out of psychiatric wards for most of from about age 10 onwards. And, um yeah, and at the age of 15, I attempted suicide for the first time. And I was, um, put into a psychiatric an adult psychiatric ward [00:23:00] for three months at 15 years old. Um, so again, it was like this, this generational institutionalisation, and it was like I you know, there was not really, I guess, another option. But, um, like Luca and I just talked about, um, class and around medication stuff like when I first went to the doctors with being majorly depressed The first thing that was offered to me was antidepressants, and that was it. You know, nothing else. There was no other conversations entered into around how my [00:23:30] recovery might look or what else could be worthwhile exploring. And, um, yeah, I think that we have a, um, medication plays a part, but I think for working class people, it is the first thing you know, like my parents knew nothing about naturopathy or, you know, ST Don's Ward or any of these things that maybe middle class people would have access to or more knowledge around. Um, yeah, so that's a little bit of my my journey and psychiatric. Um whats played a big part in my life. [00:24:00] In between the age of 15 and 23 I had 12 psychiatric admissions, which is pretty huge. And, um and at the age of 23 I met a woman who was at a therapeutic community in Napier. And, um, I found my way there, and it saved my life. And so yeah, I'll just guess I'll go on to talk a little bit about the shame and stigma attached to certain mental health diagnoses. And, um, yeah, how [00:24:30] that's obviously related to class. So, um, when I looked back at some of my notes, I was diagnosed with emotional, unstable personality disorder at 15 years old. And, um, I I just was, like, aghast that even something that was attached to me and that they pathologize maladaptive coping strategies. Obviously, what I learned was from my mother, who was spending a lot of her life in bed and unable to go into places because she was so fucking anxious all the time. So here they are, like, pathologize [00:25:00] this, you know, diagnosing me with this at 15 years old, which is, um, yeah, it was pretty huge, and, um, not really helpful. And, um, I had a reunion dinner on Friday night with the woman that I went to this community with, and we were talking about, um, borderline personality disorder because that's a diagnosis. Mostly, um, mostly given to women. And, um, it was like a stemmed from neurosis back in the day, like a like a middle ground between neurosis [00:25:30] and psychosis. And, um, it it's quite, um, fraught with a lot of issues. And it's quite controversial diagnosis. And, um, the staff from this treatment place was saying they hate it. It's like it's an awful, awful diagnosis and that we all have traits of borderline personality disorder, but it can be useful in accessing treatment, and, um, but there's still a lot of shame and stigma. A lot of psych nurses and psychiatrists, um, really dread dealing with borderline patients. And, um yeah, [00:26:00] and I had this awesome psychologist once. That said to me, Nick, you're not borderline. You know, one of the one of the symptoms is being, um, having like a not very stable like identity. And he's like, Well, well, how how could you when you were in and out of hospital as a teenager in your formative years? So how could you develop who you were as a person? So, um, yeah, I quite like that. There's a little a shift away from this, like, medicalized idea of, um, how that looks for people. Um, So, [00:26:30] um, yeah, I guess I'll just talk a little bit about the makeup of and I. I guess I've talked a bit about my family, and I'm a social work student in my first year, and, um, class stuff comes up quite a lot for me in that setting. There's a lot of white, middle class Saviours and they drive me fucking insane. And they all want to work for child, youth and family. And they also all want to work for corrections. Um, which it's just like [00:27:00] And we we do a lot around like morals and ethics and, like, they just make me want to vomit those words. They're fine. Um, and we were given this sheet of paper and, um, it was around family of origin exercise and about drawing a a genogram. I don't know if you know what a genogram is. It's kind of like a family tree, but like, if I awful version and um, it's, um, basically, you draw like circles and, um, squares for your family [00:27:30] and like different genders, and you draw lines between who is married and who is not and the Children that they had. And I said to this tutor like, How How how does that fit for people that their is so different? You know, how about for me when my father's adopted and she was like, Well, you do his birth family, I said, Well, what if he relates more to his, you know, his birth family. Sorry, not his adopted family. And, you know, for my mother, who doesn't know her father and my brother, who does not know his father, and And I remember as a child getting, um, coming home with some homework [00:28:00] that required me to draw a family tree. And my parents refused me to do that because of the shame and stigma around the incest in my and, um So that stuck with me and I'm sitting in the social work class and sitting with it, like getting told to do the student. And I mean, there was a woman in my class and her mother was murdered in domestic violence three years ago, and that was that anniversary was coming up. And for, um, that were did you put a cross through their circle or their square and just talking about emotional [00:28:30] justice and oppression being trauma. And there was no space for that that to emerge. And I mean, some of the some of the Christians were like, um the the bit of paper that we were given around the genogram. And, um was like, what context was your family living in and And what morals, Um, you know, like, how does your family reflect its cultural identity and heritage? And there was a woman in my group who her parents died when she was seven, and she lived, um, for some time in child [00:29:00] and family care and then on the streets. And how can she, as a working class woman with that experience, draw a genogram and talk about what she how her culture and and morals are reflected by. So, um, I guess I just encourage people to be really mindful of the different makeup of and then it means a lot, and it and it can be quite raw for people. And, um, so that that's an ongoing challenge to be in, um, in that social work environment. And, [00:29:30] um yeah, so class, it's It's a hard one. And I'm just appreciative that we have had the space to do some talking around it today, and, yeah, and that it's good to be to move, move through and talk and thank you to rouge for the conversations that we had prior to coming, you know, to the and, um yeah, no, I think that's all that I have to say about class and mental health at the moment. Yeah. [00:30:00] Wow. Um hey, um, my name is Ruth. Can people hear me? OK, or do I need to put the microphone on? Can you hear me? Better now? Cool. Um, hi. My name is Ruth. [00:30:30] I just a little bit about myself. I work as a peer support worker. Um, what that involves if people don't know what that is, is we're a form of mental health, support and recovery that's based on respecting people's autonomy and self determination. We focus on people's strengths instead of a patho organisation. And we are all people. Every peer support worker is somebody who has had lived [00:31:00] experience with either mental illness or alcohol and drug addiction. So we're people who have walked a similar journey to those that we support, which I think is a really important thing to acknowledge, because I find a lot of the time people who haven't had that lived experience may not necessarily understand or know how to support people the same way that somebody who has been through it does. Um, first of all, [00:31:30] I would like to thank the clip fest organisers for providing us this opportunity and this space to actually talk about mental health and well being as a political issue. It's something that hasn't really existed within this activist movement for a really long time. So it was quite hard for me to write anything about it because I was looking at it going mental health and class. Christ, where do I know? I don't even know how to begin? It's just so, so, so loaded. Um, [00:32:00] I really can't spend too much time looking at the stigma. But I really need people to understand that there is stigma attached to mental illness. It is real. It is really potent and harmful, and it does exist. It's so huge that every time I disclose my diagnosis with bipolar disorder to people, I am taking a massive gamble. I don't know if that person [00:32:30] is going to forever see me in this context of being crazy, where everything I do say, think or feel will always be looked at as a part of my insanity. Um, it's so potent that when I was first diagnosed with bipolar disorder, my mother urged me, This is my own mother. She urged me to get physical health checks to get blood tests. [00:33:00] And maybe I'm low in iron. Maybe it's B 12. 0, maybe it's gluten. Um, so I decided to cure her off. I went to the doctor. I got poked and prodded and checked. Results came back fine. I'm in perfect physical health. Everyone, please. And I told my mother and my mother goes, Oh, damn, if it was low iron, it would be so much easier to fix. [00:33:30] That's my mom. So that's how huge this is. Um, one of the really big things that I wanted to talk about is the issue around poverty and mental illness. Um, it never gets discussed, and I think that's really sad. Um, mental illness. It affects one in every four people. And not only that, but poverty affects people's mental health. And over [00:34:00] a third of the people who are receiving welfare right now are receiving it because of mental distress. And when we don't talk about it, we are actively choosing to ignore some of our most marginalised people in our society. And that's really sad. Um, I think it's a particularly potent issue right now because we are currently facing these very devastating welfare reforms, which will make life a lot harder [00:34:30] for all beneficiaries, including those with this lived experience of mental illness. Um, people seem to be vocally opposing a lot of the reforms. Not yet. Have they seen any of the anti poverty groups? Not yet. Have they seen any of these working class groups actually step up and talk about mental health? And I've been somebody who's been working with these groups for a very long time, constantly going, What about me? You know, somebody who's [00:35:00] lived as a sickness beneficiary right here? I can talk to you about it. People don't want to talk about it. To most people, the idea of being crazy of being emotional or being sad, they see it as being a bit gross. As you know, it's very gendered as well. It's seen as being feminine. It's wrong, and we need to do away with those associations. If somebody's talking to you about their mental health issues and their distress and you're feeling [00:35:30] a little bit uncomfortable, that's your prejudice. You need to check that in with yourself. That's not anyone else's problem, you know, and saying that triggers are a different thing, but on the whole, people do get really uncomfortable. And I'm sorry, but that's how I feel about it. It does need to be talked about, and we need to stop offering it. Um, what I'm finding really alarming is that people who are receiving [00:36:00] sickness and invalid benefits now are going to be subjected to work capability tests. Um, these tests will be at the mercy of case managers, and unfortunately, case managers are not known for their empathy or their understanding at all. But I do hear if they write the third worst poetry in the universe. So you know, um and [00:36:30] it's really hard to understand that mental health is something that's constantly fluctuating, and it's also very precarious. You know, it's something where a person can appear fine, but they are really suffering in sight, and they can be scared to talk about that. And, of course, they're not gonna talk about it to their fucking case manager Um, and it's [00:37:00] also something that can be brought on. A person can seem stable, but it can be brought on through things like stress, constant bullying and harassment from wins and bad employers. Um, we can look over to the UK with their Tory welfare reforms, which is what the National Party are planning on putting over here. And we can see what's happening there is really alarming [00:37:30] that Mhm Nice Um, there's Where was I? The suicide rates and the suicide rates and, um, the UK have been skyrocketing since the reforms. And one bit of research that I found really alarming recently was done in [00:38:00] Scotland, where, um, doctors had interviewed about 100 of their patients about what aspects of their health has been deteriorating since the recession. Um, the number one thing that was deteriorating for them all was their mental health. Um, the patients they fell into two groups. The first were people who were in work who were previously what would be classified as being mentally healthy. [00:38:30] Yet, um, they were now coming to their GPS explain, um, complaining of anxiety and stress because they were dealing with increased job insecurity, um, cuts, extra work as well as the rising cost of living. Um, the second group were people who either had, um, physical or mental health issues who were receiving welfare. Um, and they had been constantly [00:39:00] struggling financially. They felt completely and utterly hopeless being sent on these wild goose chases for non-existent jobs. Um, along with that, you know, just this general stigma that's around being a beneficiary, which is very similar to the stigma that's around mental illness as well. This idea that you're weak, that you can't control yourself, um, that you're wrong. Um, [00:39:30] so it's kind of like this double whammy for a lot of people. A lot of them had started self medicating with drugs and alcohol. Others had just started upping their medication without their GPS consent. And a lot of them were deeply, deeply suicidal. Um, there have been reports of people actively slashing their wrists in the welfare offices [00:40:00] in the UK. It's that bad, and I fear that it's going to get that bad here in New Zealand as well. So I do think there is some real urgency about dealing with this. I think basically, without sounding dramatic, people's lives are at risk because of this. Um, the other way that people's lives have been at risk is just this increased way that, [00:40:30] um, mental health or mental illness is only kind of see, I guess, as a white person's issue as well. When you look at our spokespeople for mental health, we've got Stephen Fry. We've got John Kerin white men, you know, And it's really interesting this concept of, um, who can actually talk about mental [00:41:00] health and who actually has those privileges who's actually allowed to stand up and say, Hey, I'm crazy, Um, and I think we It's an important thing to acknowledge and observe. It's in things like the, um, the National Party's UM suicide prevention plan, which completely ignores trans people whose suicide rates are alarmingly high, which ignores queer relationships as well. Um, there's all kinds of ways this is done. [00:41:30] It's, um the Mental Health Foundation often seems to kind of marginalise people who live in poverty. One of their five winning ways to well-being is give. How can you give when you have no money when you have nothing? You know, um, it's in the way people talk about recovery as being about health as being about communicating with nature and exercising and eating well, which are lovely things to do. [00:42:00] But not everyone can do them, Um, and so we need to look at that as well. When we talk about mental health. We need to look at who we include and exclude in our discussions. Um, so I think that's me. I'm kind of improvising and looking at these notes. I kind of panic typed this morning. So, um, we are going to throw it over to a Q and a session now. [00:42:30] So if there are things that I've missed out or you want to know more about or things you just really don't agree with me on Yeah, Feel free to ask. Cool. I just need maybe I'll just add some stuff around the the poverty and mental health stuff because there is a huge lack of dialogue and the stress of these welfare reforms are just absolutely massive. And, um, you know, the only way that we're going to deal with [00:43:00] these issues is looking at the, like, the systemic failings and the issues behind poverty, you know, which is, you know, you know, lot lots and lots of reasons. And just the lack of funding for mental health recovery. I mean, you know that this massive focuses and medicalization, you know, prescribing high doses of quite often ants, psychotic medic medications which have really horrific side effects. And, um, I mean, the types of therapies that we know work for people are expensive and they are not, you [00:43:30] know, I mean, the place that I went to was closed down, and I think this is a was quite a a patriarchal decision, and it was for for women, and it was dealing with issues of trauma. And, um, it worked, and the cost of running this place was not very high. And they just said, Well, no, we can treat people, but, you know, their way of treating people was by admitting them to psychiatric hospitals, which we know doesn't work. And, um so, yeah, I just think there II I hope that, um there's a big push to embracing more of these holistic, [00:44:00] um, type therapies and and looking at the systemic failings of dealing with mental health and poverty and unemployment. Yeah, and that's just another thing that I did want to touch on. When it comes to poverty and mental health, there is, um, a lot there, like the way the mental health system works is we have community mental health providers. These community mental health providers are basically what they're meant to be is it's free mental health care. [00:44:30] Um, for the top 3% they work with 3% of the mental health. Yeah, so you basically have to be very high risk. It took me three suicide attempts to actually get them to take me seriously, and they end up pretty much just being an ambulance at the bottom of a cliff, and not a very good one at that. Um, because they're so underresourced and underfunded. Um, for people who are, as we say in peer support, floridly psychotic, you [00:45:00] are basically given your antipsychotics, which kind of like tame the rough edges of what you're going through. But that's all they can do on their own. Um, you can recover from those symptoms. You can recover through years of extensive therapy, but unfortunately, because mental health is not seen as a real issue, the funding is not there. So these people are living these these nightmare worlds that they could, given the opportunity, [00:45:30] not live. But unfortunately, that's not how it goes. And, you know, and that is one thing that I would like to acknowledge is that I am very lucky in that sense that When I started getting seriously unwell, my family did step up and offer to pay for private therapy. The reason why they did that, though, was because my whole family is nuts and they [00:46:00] knew that I wouldn't have stood a chance with a mental health system as well. Like it's so, so underresourced and shocking. Um, you know people, often when they're suicidal, instead of sending around a crisis nurse, they'll just call the police. And that's really, really traumatic and a lot of the people who work there. Um, because it just these issues haven't been [00:46:30] raised or discussed within these C MH CS. They don't understand the complexities of things around gender, sexuality and race. Um, I had one friend, a Trans woman who requested an all women's respite when she was in crisis, and the psych nurse said, No, you're a man, so you'll go to a mixed respite. These [00:47:00] things happen a lot, and when something like that happens to a person, they're terrified of accessing these services even when they need it. And it does make me wonder. How are people getting support when they need support? If the places we meant to turn to aren't going to understand us. They're not going to take people seriously. They're not? Yeah. Anyway. Sorry. [00:47:30] That was a bit long winded. Yeah. Thank you. I just want to, um before we take questions, acknowledge how much pain people have been sharing. Yeah, and, um, what an enormous privilege that is. It's a funny word to use, but it's an enormous privilege, actually, for these stories to be shared. So thank you all that. Do we have questions? [00:48:00] Um, so I wanted to reiterate your point that people are dying in the UK because of the direct impact of the cuts that are happening over there. Um, and I'd hate to see that happen over here, but, um, I'm not sure if you might not be able to answer this as a panel, but how do we actually stop that happening? The changes happening, or how do we support better the support networks that do exist? The [00:48:30] good ones, like, if the Mental Health Foundation isn't properly supporting people, how do we create new ones or, you know, how do we reach the people who really need it? Um, I. I work for a Maori social service in the inner city in Christchurch. And we've got, um, a really good relationship with community law. And they are working on behalf of, um, beneficiaries who are facing these, um, their work testing in the in the panels. And I mean, it's it's quite frightening [00:49:00] when you when you can, um, you can appeal these decisions if you're getting kicked from the invalid onto the unemployment, Um, and you'll go before a board who are not necessarily clinicians. They might be like social workers or occupational therapists. They're not doctors in your field of of, um, your your disability. Um so relationship with with good community law teams are quite important to an advocacy I think is, um I mean, just take taking up somebody else with you when you're going to work [00:49:30] and income, as most of us know, it is pretty important. So I'm gonna be horribly pessimistic and say that I don't know if we can actually stop the reforms, but I think being vocal opponents and just I guess starting that sort of paradigm shift is really, really important, and that can hopefully bring about social change. Um, I'm a part of a group called [00:50:00] Changing minds in Auckland. Um, do look us up on Facebook. We're really, really awesome. Honestly, we too. Thank you. We we advocate for, um, respecting diversity. And I think that's a really, really important concept when it comes to creating communities that support mental health service users in because [00:50:30] it is just Yeah, it's about understanding, diversity and not looking at behaviour that might be a bit eccentric by your terms as being wrong or something that you need to stop. Yeah, as well as that. I don't think we can avoid the class struggle. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's really inspiring. I don't know that much of what's been going on in Wellington in terms of what happened with [00:51:00] the, um, the queer struggle in the class struggle come together at McDonald's. But I was like, Yay! It's like, how do we expand class struggle to encompass this or the other way around? Um, struggle for, you know, you know, so mental health being a part of that class struggle. Well, you know, we can frame it however we want, but we can't. We can't avoid the fact that we need to come together on somewhat [00:51:30] on material grounds and in some senses to, um to fight these because they disadvantage so many people. And because we care about each other. Yeah, um, I just want to say this panel is like, this Talk is the closest to my reality. Of all of the talks I've had this, um, and I can't even ask a question. I can not even make a statement. Really? [00:52:00] Um, I was gonna say, like, my whole life and experience is that start of mental health and the system and class especially being the centre of that, um being extremely low class in my upbringing, even though my mother will deny it in the end that it's untrue. Um, And I feel very protected right now, actually, from coming from such a lower class, [00:52:30] um, beneficiary kind of standpoint of, like, when people, um kind of saying people holding their kids away from Marcus, um, because you know, like, I am very, I get loud. I get when I see people wanting to be middle class or I, I get louder, and I want to make them more uncomfortable. Um, [00:53:00] and I entered the mental health system or the system. Um, my mother has mental health issues. And I had a relationship with the system before that, um, through her experience, but by being Trans, and I found it easy because I, I am so angry. Um, that and I make such a that there is a crisis for him, and they deal with it faster. [00:53:30] Um, and yeah, I just, uh I wrote them in, Um, yeah, in my in my lower class, like when people say, Oh, they learn how to talk about it so they get the benefit. Or they, um they know how to explain away and bullshitting and giving reasons so that they can get real people's money and are not humble about it. Um, [00:54:00] yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a common misunderstanding about a lot of people receiving welfare because of mental distress is that we lied about it. That's a constant thing. And I often hear people talking about lying about having a mental illness so they can get more money. Um, personally, I don't give a shit what you do to get your money like I really don't care. Um, [00:54:30] I do question how many people are doing that just because they are ashamed of having a mental illness, but it's a common misconception. And I just wanted to say it's not an easy thing to fake, but it is a remarkably easy thing to hide for a lot of people. Um, yeah, and I just about not being humble about taking that people's money and stuff. Um, I haven't got this, um, how we are in control. And maybe I wasn't in the space [00:55:00] to talk about it in the at the time, but it made me really realise how my biggest relationship is the system and how the system has made all of these things. I have had to, uh, because of my lower class, I could just move. I hadn't. I didn't feel attachment to anything. I didn't feel like I had to stay anywhere to get what I needed as fast as possible. Um, but they totally isolated by by making me move to another city where I didn't have my friends even when I didn't want to see anyone. Um, [00:55:30] just economic abuse. Of course. Because I didn't want to get a job at all. I looked how I wanted to or whatever, and Yeah, I didn't I. I wasn't not humble because I was so angry at the system. I don't care if they were giving it to me for free. They were being evil. They were rotten. Yeah, it's cool. How those things, actually, those things about being socialised or not socialised to be middle class can benefit. We're from the same family, [00:56:00] Um, that, you know, they benefit us in some ways. Say, as, um not having those constraints, I found a massive benefit in activist scenes. In a way, is just be like, Yeah, whatever. Um, you can just fire through and not be worried that you're gonna lose some social status because you've already lost it or you don't care about it or you don't know how to look after it. So it's gone. But that is actually, there's actually some personal power in that directness. That [00:56:30] is, um, a real can be a real plus about the the old under class rage. There's not rage. Can we hear from the, um uh my question is about that, um is about people that have attempted suicide or that are kind of, you know, nearing that point, I suppose And, um, how you said Ruth about when nurses called the police. That was, um sorry. What did you say? That it was, [00:57:00] um it can be quite traumatic for the person. Yeah. And, um, it just made me think that I'm I'm not sure about this, but I think that nurses, um, you know, they're registered according to the and that they have to I think that they have to call the police. Otherwise they'll lose their jobs. And so there's two things. There's one thing that the nurse has to be accountable to. The nursing council. But then there's also legislation involved. If someone has committed suicide, then they have to be reported to the police or something like that. I was just gonna say, What do you think? [00:57:30] Um, what do you think should happen? Um, the whole I mean, what's the dream situation of someone that suicide? I think that kind of bottom of the club, OK, I think it's a really difficult one. I mean, in my line of work as well. If somebody, if one of my peers wants to ring me up and be like ruf, I've got the nose around my neck right now. I have to call the police because the police, I mean, it is, uh, best practising. I have [00:58:00] to make sure that person is safe. Um, And the police, unfortunately, they can drive really, really fast, and they can legally withhold a person. And I would rather have a pissed off service user than a dead one. the what I was getting at is that it's traumatic when the police don't understand. That's what's really hard. Um, I know [00:58:30] people do work with the police or liaise with the police about getting them to understand mental health issues. Unfortunately, there's still a lot of cops out there who see suicide attempts or threats of suicide as being a big waste of their time, and they don't want to deal with it. So they do treat you like contempt. The I guess again, it just comes back to, um well, stigma. You know, it's again. Just the only thing I could possibly the only solution I could possibly think. Aside from living in that wonderful utopia where [00:59:00] there are no cops, we'll get there. We'll get there, Um, is to just challenge those notions and those perceptions. Yeah, I I Hm. That's a hard one. I I mean, it's it's about belief. Quite often, people that are, um uh, uh suicidal or have attempted suicide, um, are just treated like shit. And it is like the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. And I mean [00:59:30] I. I don't know what you know. There is a big issue around safety and and whether people get admissions to psychiatric wards after suicide attempts, which I mean, there's a big onus on the family taking responsibility. And I mean, there was a lot of times where my father was expected to look after me when I was suicidal, and I don't think that's fair, but, you know, But then I don't know what best practise is around that, Um, I don't think that police should be dealing with suicidal patients. I think it's really highly inappropriate. Um, I mean, the massive power dynamics are huge. [01:00:00] And, you know, I I've heard that they may get in their three or five months training or however long it takes at police college. They'll get like, one day's training on mental health, which is so very, very little. And but I think that yeah, mental health nurses really need to make an effort to be treating suicidal patients with a bit more respect. Because, yeah, it's the stigma attached to, Like I said, borderline and and and suicide attempts is so, so massive. And I mean, that's it's [01:00:30] kind of they see it as a revolving door and quite often with, um, suicidal patients. They're coming in and out all the time. And but, yeah, I think, and, you know, like investment in quality therapeutic, um, work for patients is one of the main things that will, um, you know, hopefully that for a lot of mental health nurses, it's this idea of, um, they don't want to reward bad behaviour by putting a suicidal person in hospital. That is the actual [01:01:00] logic. It's ridiculous. There is a thing now. I think about it. Um called a green card admission now, and it's, um, used for, um, suicidal patients or patients with borderline, which is you can ring, um, the psychiatric ward, and often there's no bed. So but the idea is that you ring them when you're suicidal or wanting to self-harm and you say I'm feeling unsafe. Can I come in and you'll get a 48 hour admission, Um, where they won't review your medication or anything. It's just about having a time to keep you [01:01:30] safe for that that time. And if you self-harm or run away or something on the ward, then you will just be immediately discharged. But that's around taking responsibility for your safety. Um, and I think that initiative is, um, really good way to deal with it. I was just wondering, um, with, uh, a lot of the, um you know, people don't like So my understanding is that people have [01:02:00] to actually be like I am attempting suicide right now. I have resources to There's not resources allocated to help people. I was thinking about how at the NC PC people will call us up, you know, I mean, workers will pull us up and say, I'm feeling really depressed. Things are real shit right now, like, this is my problem. And we will be like, sweet, we're coming over, come over. I'll be like, Let's go have some coffee and hang out and come hang out like we talk Shit. I mean, that's good and it's and it's really good. But then, [01:02:30] like I wonder whether there could be more of that happening. And it is the thing that's stopping that from, You know, people from calling sooner before, you know, like sooner we might need support. Is it just a matter of, like, not being all that money? I would say So I think that's an excellent thing to implement. I mean, I try to do that as much as I can. Yeah, I think peer support is a really awesome [01:03:00] initiative, and it wasn't around when I was younger and, um and it's really, really cool. But, you know, the the resources are so stretched and like, I really like that thing that you're talking about at NZ PC And like quite often in psychiatric wards, they'll be like, packed out, and they'll get a phone call from the psych services saying, Have you got a bed and they'll say, Oh, no, and then somebody will be going on leave for the weekend so they'll send them out on leave and say, You can come back if you feel unsafe, but they would have already filled the bed for the weekend, So if you're unsafe and you come back, it's like, Oh, we'll put you on a mattress on the floor, [01:03:30] put you in the seclusion room with the door open or you know, So it's It's fucked. The system's fucked. I was wondering if, um, we could talk at all about, um, some of the things that happened at the place you went to in here that that worked. Um, yeah, sure, it was a therapeutic community. Um, and I don't know if you know anything about the model, but it's pretty amazing. So it's like an onus on the saying was that, um, wounding happens in relationships. [01:04:00] So healing happens in relationship, which is really, um, amazing. And it was a small community. So there was five women, um, there at a time, and the staff team was quite small. So I think community was like 12, um, 12 people all up and, um, quite intensive group therapy. And, um, I mean, we did like some yoga type stuff in art therapy and which is the integrated body psychotherapy. Um, which is really cool. [01:04:30] Um, but just a lot of being in relationship to heal wounds and, um, being in the space. And, you know, there's a big expectation that you engage in the community So it's like you still are cooking and you're cleaning and, you know, and everybody is on equal footing. It's quite non hierarchical, which I really liked. And, um, but But just time, like I spent 15 months there and, um yeah, and they used, um, a trauma and recovery model Where you, um you progress through four stages from, [01:05:00] um, um, establishing safety to finally reconnection. I know, um, transition out back into the community. So and just in the fact that it was for women was really, um, amazing. And to, um, you know, especially dealing with trauma, which most of the women there were having, um, you know, diagnosis of post traumatic stress disorder. So just just really intensive therapy, I think. And, um, I mean, we did lots of fun stuff, too, and yeah, and cooked a lot of good food. And [01:05:30] but yeah, and it's really sad that that that's closed. Now there's one place in Nelson called, which is therapeutic community for borderline patients. Um, and there's like, a private clinic in Dunedin. Um, but in terms of, you know, treatment, um, options outside of psychiatric units is so limited. Yeah, I'm I'm really passionate, and we'd love to see something like that started up again. So, yeah. Can I just ask that you have to pay [01:06:00] for that? No, it was funded by the district health boards on the lower, um, lower North Island. So I moved there from Dunedin. I heard about it. So I moved all the way up to and stayed with this woman's family until I got funding to go there. Yeah, I just because I work in the mental health, if we can create something like this and we can have this, like in every city, it just sounds [01:06:30] like something that's effective because routine activity is, um, experience. I was myself. So I know I know what it's like. And, um, you know, the routine daily routine, like cleaning and cooking this stuff. Uh, it gives you a sense of accomplishment. I cooked today because you just feel so hopeful it like, Yeah, I really I really interested in that. Would you be able to give us a link to that Nelson [01:07:00] one that you know? Yeah, sure. And I just do some research and see Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have a question over here. Really? Random commenting what you were saying before about up. And I think the fact that it's kind of like rich white dude is just as usual. But it's also like maybe the idea that, um, mental illness is kind of a discrete thing that you just [01:07:30] have because you've got five neurons in your head rather than because of social circumstances. And and so, like having mental illness has nothing to do with, like your you know, your physical interaction with the world or your social circumstances and stuff. And as though mental health is mental health issues are something you either completely have or you don't. And like for a while I used to kind of characterise myself as a mentally healthy person because for [01:08:00] the most part I was and holding that identity it It took a long time for me to notice that I had a lot of issues like I would be sitting there crying and being like, I don't understand why this is happening because I'm a mentally well person. Yeah, it's It's for me. Um, and I mean it like part of that may have been me not wanting to have the stigma of being a mentally ill person because then that governs, like the whole way that you are and like what you're saying, Like, you know, people would see you as that first [01:08:30] or you'll see yourself as that person. It's like No, like, I'm Anna responses to the random comment from anyway, Yeah, I think that was That's really interesting. Like the way I've always perceived it or the way they talk about, like my diagnosis. And I don't know if I touched on it before because I kind of just had this adrenaline rush and ranted incoherently for a number of minutes. And I'm sorry. [01:09:00] Um, but yeah, I don't believe in the one great stigma to rule them all. Like how we experience it is tied to diagnosis, the kind of diagnosis we have and all. Yeah, and it's tied to class. It's tied to race. It's tied to everything. Really. Um, but the way I was taught, told about my diagnosis, Um, after the mass of temper tantrum I threw at my psychiatrist was that [01:09:30] it is one part some genetic predisposition, some kind of witches brew of neurotransmitters in my head, and the other part was extenuating life circumstances. To me, that makes sense. Um, but I think it is a complicated one as well. Um, and yeah, as far as, like, kind of going through that stigma of being well and unwell, I think, to an extent, we're all both [01:10:00] mentally well and mentally unwell in a lot of ways. Um, we all have quirks. We all have interesting things that we go through. And this is not to marginalise the distress that people can feel. That's really real. But the way I've always looked at my experiences is that I am kind of on this extreme edge of feeling and thinking like I just things just go a little bit too far with me sometimes. Like, [01:10:30] Yeah, I don't know if that helped. I'm just rambling. Can I make a random comment in response to the random random comment away? I just want to say for me and my personal experience of mental illness and working in mental health, um, not for a while, but, um and, uh, yeah, I think that, um that that kind of binary thing came about like, [01:11:00] Well, people unwell people. Crazy people is really key. I would really like to see that disintegrate a bit more because, um, I really saw that. Um, yeah, in in my work environment and kind of like, Well, the staff are, you know, well, you guys are not well, and I was just like, that is so wrong what is happening? You know, And, um and I think, yeah, in terms of, um [01:11:30] uh, yeah, asking, asking for help and and getting what you need and that stigma and then coming, coming back to work. Because when it's black and white, when it's like, you're either this or you're there and you've been unwell and you've been, like for me with depression, um, you know, and then you kind of go When am I? Well, you know And like because, you know, there's this sort of idea of like, you have to be you're either completely well or you completely unwell, which I just think is fucking [01:12:00] bullshit because it seems to me like, Yeah, we're all it's it's someone said, You know, it's it's it's in flux. It's coming up and down. You have times of stress. You have times of real wellness, you and it's all there in that in that kind of, um, magical cauldron of actually just being a human being. And, um, I think, yeah, mental mental illness is part of, um, being a human being and and living in, like, we people talked about, you know, living [01:12:30] in a society that hates you for a lot of different reasons. And so yeah, and I think that in my humble opinion that that, uh, kind of binary can only change the more people that, um, come out and talk about their own experiences. So, um, we are really great people hearing I also wanted to touch on. Like when I talk about speaking up, I do wanna say that I do understand why people don't and [01:13:00] that it can be really unsafe for people to do it. Um, So that's why I just I guess I try to promote understanding from everyone or empathy or compassion. That's something that's within us all. You know, we can't escape it. As Hannah said so and that's about privilege as well. Like, you know, you talk about, you know, people like John, you know, like who already has enough privilege, which, you know, I have plenty of privilege, which [01:13:30] allows me it makes it easier for me to say those things than something else to say those things. OK, being an ogre about timekeeping is extremely unfamiliar to me. I have to be honest. But I'm really aware we are, um, way over time. So I wonder if we can. I think there was one other person over here who had their hand up. Can we maybe close with this question? I was just wondering if people have much knowledge around the changes to [01:14:00] the benefits which are about I'm worried about that. And I imagine there are other people here, too. Yeah, I can talk to the folks later. That's better. Um, I think the main things that I found concerning is that changing the title of the sickness benefit to a job seeker agreement. Um, and they talk about that as it's really [01:14:30] strange. The the, um, the Ministry of Social Development. It's like they've adopted these kind of recovery type language to focus on this. You know, my only disability is thinking that I can't do it. Um, I don't know if past the win's office lately, it's sitting right there in the window, Um and yeah, so they do. They're doing that to kind of decrease the stigma. But really, what they're doing is they're putting you on a contract [01:15:00] that says that you're gonna look for X amount of jobs each week and you face sanctions on your benefit If that doesn't happen And I'm not sure how you can even prove these things or what you do, they, um you know, it's hard for people who have that experience of had time off work due to their mental health, to find work again or to get back into the working system. Um, you know, and I've known people who have been pushed into work when they weren't ready [01:15:30] for it, and they've gone unwell again and they've lost their jobs. And it's just like rinse wash, you know, repeat constantly, constantly. Um, so, yeah, I think that's one of the most alarming things that came up for me, um, forced drug testing as well. That's a big one. I think that's quite stigmatising with drug addiction as well. Um, it's also that concept that as controversial as it is as it is that [01:16:00] addicts can't do jobs, they absolutely can if they want to or I'm sorry. I'm beginning to sound a little bit like at myself. You can work, but it's a Yeah, it's just that bizarre concept. They we don't know what's good for us or that we're small Children that need to be told off and patronised. Yeah, I think it it was under my impression that the ambulance benefit was going [01:16:30] to be unchanged. But, um, from what I hear that it's not it's maybe getting changed to something called the Living Support Payment. Um and I Yeah, I thought the ambulance beneficial were safer. I'm on the ambulance benefit at the moment, and I just got my yearly review form and I said, Look, I don't want to have this hanging over my head, so I'm gonna try and transfer you to the student allowance. And I have another friend that just had an appointment during the week and they were trying to kick you on to the sickness. [01:17:00] So yeah, there are massive changes, and I think there is a huge push. Um, which is really frightening in, um in terms of yeah, like mental health and disabilities. It's a bit scary. So I, I don't really know a lot more than that. There's a little bit of information on, um, on the M SDS website. But community law are really onto it with that stuff like this in Christchurch. There's one person that deals with beneficiary rights. So they might be a good place to call [01:17:30] or auction. Um, Auckland action against poverty or place. Like that? Yeah. How did you have anything you want to add to me? Um, no. Ok, cool. Then I would like to, um thank our panel for being such brave and extraordinary shares this afternoon. Um, yeah. Thank you. Thank you.
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