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Uh, uh, uh uh. Greetings to all your ancestors or the lines that come down through us. That, and I you to be here with us today. Um, greetings to your mountains and into your rivers and to your oceans. Um, yeah. So this is our panel. Pretty much I'll pass over to you, let you introduce yourselves and talk, And then we'll do questions blah, blah, blah, blah, [00:00:30] blah. Um, yeah. So I think the kind of framing around this session is that, you know, I'm talking to you now in English. Um, which is weird because we're in. So there you go. So that's that's really important to keep in mind, I think also, when we think about terms like gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, um, intersex asexuals, those are English words. And they have a Really, I guess they have their own history. Um, but they also have their own [00:01:00] context. And so it's It's not just as simple to translate, um, or, you know, all just directly into these English things. So I think it's really important to remember living in the Pacific what those, um, contexts are. And what those words mean outside of just gay lesbian, bisexual, that kind of stuff. So yeah, I see. So start with [00:01:30] Yeah. Uh um, [00:02:00] [00:02:30] [00:03:00] they not [00:03:30] I will never speak English. Um, I've just acknowledged. Firstly, the dear Lord, um, came from a Catholic background. So I started with our lord, um, and thanking him for this day and for this for bringing us together and then moved on and talked about my big pot of land. Um, my big mountain. And it's called and it, um, it's from up north. Um, I'll let you know more about that before, but I was just [00:04:00] trying to explain what I was just talking about in the native to um And then I just acknowledge those who have passed. Um um, especially those who have passed of HIV. Um and, um, bring them into this corridor with the living with us, and I asked them to give us guidance and give us support while we have this corridor today. Um, then I acknowledged my Forbes, all for these beautiful people here are my [00:04:30] leaders in the community. Um, there are many more. There are hundreds of them, actually, and they're very, um the one thing is that we will have in common is that we're Maori first and foremost. So, um, I to you. Thank you. Thank you for coming. Um, now, my name is I hail from the part of the nation from the I hail from, um, [00:05:00] the birthplace of Dave. Um, I'm one of her. And, um, Yeah, I My mountain is my river. Is is It's a big river. It's actually a So, um uh, I also, um my is. And, um, my is not Don't get it mixed up [00:05:30] down this way at the top. Of course, The other one. And, um um uh, I have Mom and Dad. Of course. I need mom and Dad because I wouldn't be here. Um, my dad is He's from which is on the other side of the my mom is from her name is Mag Leaf. Um, three siblings, two siblings, a sister [00:06:00] and a brother, a young brother who's as well. So, um, that's who I am. I've worked for the New Zealand AIDS Foundation, Is the community engagement coordinator Maori, which is basically the so they tell me what to do in the community and I go out and do it. Um, so I go up and down a country. I have a national role lucky enough to have a national role. So I get to fly up and down like a jet setter, thinking on flesh and not even having got $2 [00:06:30] in my car. Um, so, yeah, I get to fly around the country and talk to Maori people, um, about HIV and AIDS and HIV prevention. Um, some out there are really scared about HIV, which is which is all right. It's good to be scared. We all go through emotions when we hear the big word of HIV. And those three letters bring bring a lot of pain and sorrow and death in the end. So, um, I go out to the and talk [00:07:00] on the to the older people to young people about what their niece or nephew are going through and how to make it easier for them to go through the process with people. With HIV, I do this work with my own uncle. My mom's brother died of HIV and he was treated like a dog because people didn't like what he had. And um, anyway, I don't want anyone else to go through that through what my uncle went through. So that's the reason [00:07:30] I do this job. I do today. Um, I'll talk more later on. Talk more later on. Um um one of the big things that I do at the New Zealand nations and the most proud and the most honoured event that I help organise is the, um it's been going for 26 years, and it's event where, um Maori and whoever get to come and, [00:08:00] um, stay the weekend on a or in town. Um, and be who we are. Just be who we are. That's basically it. That's all we do. We have fun while we're doing it. Uh, we have awesome gossip sessions. Um, we have a little bit of beverages in the evening times because we love to beverage and entertain each other, and things are with guitars and everything. So, um, yeah, I've [00:08:30] been honoured to to put on the last three with, um, different iwi. First one in Auckland, the next one in Wellington. And the last one just got last year is hit it at my home all the way in in the bush. So, um, those are some. That's the big event. that I put on, um, for And, um yeah, I'm happy to be a part of it. And, um, be a part of this right here, so I'll carry on some more afterwards. And that's who I am. And [00:09:00] that's where I'm from, handing it over all your Oh, uh um uh [00:09:30] um my name is, um I have to write down my because I have no memory [00:10:00] at the moment. Um, and on that note, at some point, my baby might come up for a feed if she needs to. Um uh, I'm lucky enough to work as a tutor. Um, in in, Um, yeah, and I think the question of of queer as a term, I find it interesting, because to me, the term queer, [00:10:30] um, implies, you know, the the reason that word was chosen is because it's about disrupting a heteronormative culture. But if your culture is not heteronormative, why would you identify as queer? Um, thinking about queer stuff, thinking about sexuality? Um, I was trying to think where to start and the people [00:11:00] that I really respect, People like Annie and Wana Jackson say you should always start at the beginning. Um, and where they start is basically creation. Um, so if you imagine a line out in front of me that stretches stretches past the arrival of my European ancestors here stretches past the arrival of my Pacifica. Here it stretches [00:11:30] all the way back to creation, and it continues behind me all the way to eternity. And there's no milestones because we can't see into the future. If this line this line represents the knowledge and the wisdom of generations, Um, and it's what, uh, calls the continuum. So if you imagine just in front of me so the recent past, [00:12:00] there's an intersecting line and that lines colonisation, and I think that it's helpful when you think of that line to imagine, or to remember the scene from psycho with a knife. Um, because, um, yeah, because colonisation brings with it cultural imperialism, Western cultural, imperial imperialism, which is the denial [00:12:30] of anyone else's knowledge. Or so the purpose of colonisation is to try and break this continuum. Uh, colonisation seeks to cut our knowledge off from the past by denying that we had laws, let alone philosophies or an intellectual tradition, and it seeks to cut off the possibility of our culture [00:13:00] developing by replacing our with Western understandings of it, our colonisers would have us believe that our knowledge is exactly what Europeans recorded it to be when they arrived here. No more or no less than that. And we're We're supposed to believe that the Western academic tradition can better understand and represent Maori than a Maori academic tradition can. [00:13:30] Whether we're talking about Western trained researchers 200 odd years ago or now, somehow they are supposed to have a better take on the truth than anyone else does. And finally, we're supposed to believe that authentic was fixed in time at the point of colonisation and didn't come from anything. And it's not developing into anything [00:14:00] those distorted views of our have endured since the colonisers started their project here. But our traditions have also endured, and we can use those traditions to ensure that instead of cutting us off from our knowledge, colonisation is just a small blip on this continuum. And that's where, as we do it, it comes in. [00:14:30] So is about ensuring the integrity of this continuum, the continuum. Um, it's about fixing up the damage of colonisation and allowing our to continue to develop, and there's five statements that sum up. What we do in the first is that is the basis of the second is that we have faith in our we have faced that they acted intentionally and we have faced that their intentions were good. [00:15:00] Third statement is that we have faith in our that's, um the oral traditions, the creation stories, Um, our had generations in which to understand the, um they had generations to experiment, to learn the important skills and values and making and maintaining the relationships that they needed. And they embedded that knowledge [00:15:30] in those oral traditions. So we need to have faith in them. Um, the fourth statement is, that is the first law here, and it's the only legitimate law here. And the final statement is that colonisation has led to imposter through cultural imperialism. So that last statement acknowledges that because of the process of colonisation, some of the stuff that we think of as [00:16:00] is coming out of that past is actually of recent origin. It's actually come from the point post colonisation, and it doesn't reflect our it's actually reflecting the values of our colonisers and possibly also the stories that they told us about ourselves. Um, and that's especially true of things like gender and sexuality, where the cultures of the colonisers and the were [00:16:30] really, really different. Um, so if we were to look to our what does it tell us about sexuality and gender? Um, if we look at creation stories, first of all, there's a whole heap of different creation stories. Um, if you look at the stories that I learned when I was growing up, they tended to be based on writers like George Grey. Um, and when you look at those stories, [00:17:00] you would imagine that our is as patriarchal and heteros as our culture. Um, yeah, if you think about the way Well, the stories I grew up with, I don't know what you all heard. But the way that romance is told, it sounds a little bit like a rape scenario. Um, she then gives birth to a bunch of Children who are all male. [00:17:30] Um, those males make a female out of dirt. One of the males has sex with that. That first female. She gives birth to a daughter who becomes the first woman Tana has sex with the first woman. She finds out that Tony is her father and flees in shame to the underworld. Um, I think that's a pretty typical playing out of a Western male [00:18:00] female dichotomy and power relationship. Um, and most of the riders, when they first started hearing our creation traditions, that's the That's the way that they retold them. But that's not how my people talk about creation. Um, and traditions. No. Had many partners. Um, papa was with before [00:18:30] Papa gets with, um so and are together, uh, they have a child, goes away to bury the while is a way. Hook up, uh, comes back, have a fight. Wins. Goes away again. Um, [00:19:00] yeah, it's I really like this tradition. Um, because it really you can see how it reflects the world that were living in at the time you've got You've got going away and coming back and going away and coming back. Um, so, yeah, so is the ocean. Um and, um, yeah, you can see why they would imagine [00:19:30] that is with both And, um, that makes sense. What I'm really interested in is all the time that is going away and coming back is still there with. So I'm really interested in the relationship between and because if you think that look intimate, I would say that look more intimate. [00:20:00] Um, yeah, so that's that's That's some of tradition. Um, and then if you look at the traditions of it's quite different again. Jones, um, talks about their creation traditions and I. I summarise what he's written. Um, so had multiple partners other than, um, [00:20:30] the words that Jones uses to talk about their relationships in English, Um, is that they were both Both were bisexual and asexuals, um so had had sex with other partners. Gave birth to Children. Uh, who is [00:21:00] who was and Jones is telling is also male. Um, had sex with another male, uh, gives birth. Um, yeah, I think this This is a really cool tradition. There's heaps to think about. Uh, it's not my tradition, so I'm not going to speculate or explore that at all, but I wanted to show you that the traditions as know them as we remember [00:21:30] them, show a complex understanding of both gender and sexuality. Um, when you think about them, you can see that monogamy is not privileged at all. you can see that males aren't especially privileged. You can see that heterosexuality isn't necessarily privileged. And the more that you look into them, the more you can see that within the traditions, neither gender nor sexuality are seen as fixed. [00:22:00] Um, I'm gonna stop there because I wanna make sure that we've got lots of time for questions. Um, but I wanted to. Before I start, I want to put, um, some challenges to you. The first is to explore your indigenous creation traditions wherever you come from, find out what your had to say about the world before their traditions were swallowed up and reinterpreted through the narrow [00:22:30] minded patriarchy. And the second is wherever you are now, support support organisations support solutions. Don't try to be an expert on them. Um, be prepared to learn from instead of critiquing or trying to teach them. For example, if you want to learn about if you want to learn or Maori [00:23:00] law consider not going to a colonial institution where a is understood within a Western tradition, Um, where it is at best, relegated to an offshoot of anthropology. Instead, consider supporting your local. Um, you are all across the nation? Um, yeah. And at is Central. It's the best place to learn about it. [00:23:30] Um, I want you to think about whose culture you privilege when you organise stuff, whatever you're doing. Um, and when you're doing things like setting up a safer spaces policy and this isn't a criticism of this at all of this way, but to consider when you're setting that stuff up, what would it mean to prioritise? What would it mean to do safer spaces has to come. [00:24:00] Um, is it something that you could do? And if it's not, what would you have to change to be able to do it at the next week? At the very least, it's gonna mean having really meaningful relationships with, um, yeah, so take home message. Um, there's a heap of really valuable stuff in our traditions, and they hold generations of knowledge [00:24:30] and solutions to the problems that the West is only just starting to recognise things like he patriarchy, the less energy that wherever are having to put into defending our rights to cultural survival. The more time and energy we can put into invigorating our own traditions and exploring them for their diverse and unique solutions to the problems we're facing. I think that's [00:25:00] something we should all be supporting. Been here. I think there was, um, something really good Kim. For someone who is sleep deprived. It was stunning. Hun, um and I'm really honoured to to to be on this panel, Um, with these beautiful women, um, who [00:25:30] are really knowledge and, uh um, right. Gifts to to our to our community, to our to our, um And I think we should get on the and, um, tap them before tap that knowledge. Tap that, um, before they go back to their homes. Um, can you have started me off on a, um you made me think about, uh, about a lot of things. A lot of things. [00:26:00] And so I do about, um Oh, where to begin. Where to begin This cope alone is huge. And it's more than just three people sitting up here. I have to say, um, the ways and beyond queer theory. Um, you knocked it on the head for two straight straight in the first slide. What is clear. And it's a blank white page, and I have to before I start before I start. Um, [00:26:30] I'm not bashing. Um I'm just saying things that are from my heart and what I believe in. OK, um so and what I've been taught in that has been taught to me from my my um So, um, right there. And then again, it is it's it's a term. And so you can't put a PAA term on an indigenous person just to make feel better for themselves because they found a word. Yay! [00:27:00] We found a word. Talk you out. No, it's not. No, it's not. So, um, the starting point I'm gonna start with is this on my hand? This is a, um a speaking stick. And it's also a learning, uh, listening stick as well. This was presented at the last. The thing I talked about before And this Taco Taco tells the story of Rangi and Papa. [00:27:30] This side here is this side Here is these in the middle and are are their Children not all of their Children, because there's in different stories. There are a lot of Children, and these reads down here is our connection their connection. Sorry. The God's connections to us. We call to people. OK, um so that that's [00:28:00] where I wanted to start off with my Is that, um, right at the beginning, right? The creation story right at the start. There's a bit of homophobia right there. And then there's all these male gods like him said, and one womb or one space, 100 or so of them lying there all naked and doing nothing. So you better ask yourself, Hey, to [00:28:30] be honest, come on, right at the beginning. Patient. There's men getting it on, I'm sure. So, um and I have to say A from Lisbon stood and said that at the games opening, he stood and said that he's a straight man in south and and that's what he brought up. And I thought, I'm gonna use that and I get Yeah, 100. And so men sitting in this beautiful space in the dark or naked What do you think they're gonna do? [00:29:00] So, um, goes back goes back. It's a pre-op word. The word, um, like our lovely Pacific, our lovely people from the, um there is a lot of different words and different iwi and different and different. Um, the word was found in the writings way back in the day and way [00:29:30] back in the day. The writings of you heard of the who she's there and one of the stories, Um, that is written in it. Um, and it's an old famous book. I always forget the name of it, but you'll find it online. Just go online. Google that stuff. Um, there's a writing of the word is [00:30:00] written in in there, and it's and the word means companion of the same sex. So just a companion of the same sex and, um had a companion, right? Yeah. Had a companion of the same sex and his name was So the word goes back way back in the days, [00:30:30] Um and it wasn't until until the arrival of the church, um, and and that the word was demolished and, um wiped out and basically said that that word stands for gay, and that's bad the Bible. So you won't do it again and you won't say that word again. OK, I'm off a movement that is reviving the word and bringing it back to our people. [00:31:00] This is what we do in we live the word we breathe the word we shout it out in pride and and, um, it's back, It's it's back. It's way back now. 26 years since the has been going, so the I believe is back. Um, however, there's a little bit of a mix to the story before anything before any one of us. We are Maori, [00:31:30] first and foremost. We from gods and from, um, our full beers. So before I tell anyone and I stand up at, I don't stand up at and go, my name is I'm I say my name is and I come from and that's all you need to know. If I'm, I'll let you know later on when we're having a drink. But it's not something that I get up first and foremost and say, Yeah, I'm but the first and foremost I'm [00:32:00] Maori and I come from and I agree. So, um um, with the word as well and different, it means different things back in the days meant a companion of the same sex. It also meant, um, in other places, um, the local midwife. The person was the local midwife, had strong hands, delivered [00:32:30] a big brown babies pulled babies out. Um, and other places were the the Chiefs, um, friend in bed while he was out at war because no women were allowed to go to war. So the chief had a little friend who would host them at night. Um, the word And I is, um another war story is, um I've heard that with the people, [00:33:00] um, with the young, feminine looking boys, the really camp things and the like myself, um, pretty and gorgeous people and tries the the men to come more inshore inshore from Dubai. And, um, the Paki men would think, Oh, look at these beautiful Maori women laying with their back showing, of course, long hair painting of the like sitting down and they'll come in and they get really, [00:33:30] really, really close like, this far away. And all the Maori boys would turn around and and they did, and they get killed right there. Me So they were kind of like the the Yeah, um I've heard stories of that as well. In my own local community, we didn't have the word. We had a word which is a bit we're renowned for this. We talk Maori English, mix it together, and next minute the Maori vocabulary has got an S in it, and we don't even have an S. So [00:34:00] my was their home was one word, um, that we used to that our old people used for a feminine acting male, and he had a role in the community. His role was to, um, decorate the kitchen so beautifully with every flower and everything that he could find outside in the native bush. He was that guy. He was the person who taught the girls how to do and [00:34:30] swing the poi. He was, um he had a lot of roles in the community. He he didn't. He not only stood on the and me, he could also get up there and do a and entertain everyone while they're having dinner with the poor. OK, so the word, um, voice is is who we are. Um, a old co writer of mine always said, Don't forget where you're from [00:35:00] and who you What? So, um, first and forth to my again, my name is and I come from the family questions anyone. Don't be shy. Morning. [00:35:30] Now that that word, you know, go all around the world, and they, um they look at indigenous people, you know, see Dutch doesn't belong to the Dutch. There was a word given to the Netherland people by a person as I was told so as Maori our word do we need to be encompassed by a word that encompasses us Cause your name? [00:36:00] I'm first and foremost I'm not a kiwi. I'm not a Maori. I'm not a New Zealander. I'm too hot. So it's Maori, our work that Oh, yeah, great question to start with. And I knew it had come from him because he's from I believe, um what I believe in is that it's up [00:36:30] to the individual where they're from. Um and if they believe that they're Maori, they believe they're They believe they they believe they're Dutch. It's up to the individual to either. Um, yeah, believe it and take it to me. Is Maori our word to me? Yeah, I believe is a human being. But to encompass the people, I believe it's [00:37:00] a Maori people. We are I don't wanna say it's another label. It's a name that I'm proud of, that I'm proud to be called Maori and identifies where I'm from when I'm outside of the country because no one knows my little town, but just do the or the Yeah, so I think [00:37:30] it identifies me when I'm out of the country. Um, yeah. Don't say it much when I'm here in the country. I I can say and stuff like that, but yeah, that's what I believe Maori is for me. Next big fish and not from the side of the room. Do you have anything to add to that or not? Really? Um, [00:38:00] I think I probably agree with both of you. Um, I think that that Maori is often a really useful term, but that within or when you use the term Maori, the specific relationship you have with your your specific gets lost. Um, And so I think it is really important that that we say where exactly we are from. Um, but I think politically it's a useful term as well. [00:38:30] I don't know, like my Maori music five. Um, I've got another one for you. You know, we we all different different areas different, and we all have different, um, on creation and all of that, um um [00:39:00] uh, is not God of the sea, you know, is, um Is is the coral Everything that is alive in the sea And is the sea the body, the shimmering, the waves, the FS fence and all of that. You know, um um those are all the matriarchal [00:39:30] things, which is water, which bursts us. I can say I know. Tell them you know, I, I When? When you when you talked about, um, the creation and all of that and about the men and that, um And where I only can talk from where I come from. Um, you know, they they talked about all the gods in there, but in all those gods had their female. Um and, [00:40:00] you know, I watched on TV one time about bringing back, um uh, marriages tinny, not having the marriages as a man and a woman as they have today. But bring back the marriages that were, you know, because you took you you touched on, um how, uh, who had her lovers and had his lovers, whether they were male or female. Who am I going with this? [00:40:30] He has a different story that come on, somebody. I eat my name. Um good. Everybody. My name is and I'm feeling very prig in here today, especially if you listen to our pan of speakers. Um, I just wanted to meet to you guys. It was, um, really a mind opening experience for me And to hear [00:41:00] from your point of view, this, um, way of describing ourselves, I guess. And I just wanted to touch on your about, um, about the creation story. And one of the questions that I've always put to my to my ancestors, um on the East Coast is is really a man as a woman, who are we as people to place those as the pro? [00:41:30] Who are we to put that on Our God. So when you are speaking about this creation story and how we are descendants of these, we are the love beings and so must be placed into the male body or the female body. But we are an instance of each of them. You know, the to my understanding, that is the that is the life source, and that is not a male or [00:42:00] female. And from and from comes comes all of these, um, life forces around us, you know? And so when we were touching on, if we are Maori, I feel like if you need to say that you are Maori. It is to accommodate to others. If you were to say that you are queer, it is to accommodate to others. Or, you know, this is so others understand who you are. But as long as you know who you are inside, [00:42:30] no labour can really define you. That's what I'm getting from today. Why stunning, babe? Wrap that up? Yeah, I just wanted to also give my and you to you guys. You guys have just totally in my mind. Um, so you're gonna do so much to think of that. So thank you. [00:43:00] I'll echo that, um, really mind opening lots and lots to learn. Um, I rather you charity. That supports, um, queer train, um, into New Zealand to, um, set up support groups at their schools. And, um, I find it really hard because I want our organisation to be bicultural, and I want to [00:43:30] bit about your communities. But I'm finding it really hard to do it because I don't feel like there's really many resources out there. Yeah, just gonna go down. There aren't many resources out there. Yeah, there aren't. And we're like a minority inside a minority inside a minority, especially Pacific and and and Maori people and people. So, um, yeah, um, I understand [00:44:00] your struggle. I understand where you're coming from. And, um, the only thing I can say it's not a remedy, but just take our contacts when we go And I think you've got my we have each other day, so we will try our best. But it's Yeah, it's really hard to find, First of all who are still at school. And the hard thing with us is, we don't want to spring them while they're at school. He don't wanna be doing [00:44:30] that because they're going through such a big time. But it's really cool when you do find one who's proud of who they are, know where they're from and they're young. It's just using that person finding that one person is the key. Yeah, and we have a couple in Auckland, but I still haven't found one in Wellington. They've grown up and got big, and now we're in the club mi mix to and not like that. [00:45:00] Um, thank you for that. That was awesome. Um, my question is, um I I'm really curious to see where you make to know where you are making and the work that you do And what are the obstacles also, But mainly, like the way we are in the work that you're doing that you are actually getting through the messages that you want to get across. You accomplished. [00:45:30] I know my work's doing good, but they tell me, Yeah, and I have a, uh, a support network, a national support network of and they'll just ring me and tell me how it is and what the facts are. So they haven't rang me. And so that means it's all good. I'm doing a good job. As soon as they ring me. I know there's something there's something up or there's a bit of a rough, but I try and keep in contact with all of them via our [00:46:00] Facebook pages, our websites and stuff. So, um, yeah, I know I'm doing good so far so far, but it's, um Yeah, I know that the message is getting through, like, who is it getting through to the most or like, where are you having the most success? Like, um, you know, what is it that you're doing? That um, it's working. [00:46:30] Yeah, it's the for me. It's the for me because I bring the together. It started off annually, but it's gone by annually because of funding. But, um, I keep in contact all the time, and and it's the bringing everyone together to celebrate who we are and where we're from. And, um, that's the tool that's working for me. Yeah, um, if I could just add to some of the [00:47:00] the panel, I think some of the important messages that have come through today have been understanding the the context or the cultural context that, um, that we have to look at. So particularly when you look at, um, traditions whose traditions How is that tradition? Come about, Um, is one of the messages that I've heard here today, Um, so I think that some of the [00:47:30] barriers, uh, might be what we think we know and therefore understanding where did that thing come from? And is that genuine thinking? Um, because that, you know, you can go off on all sorts of rolling tracks and the Maori words are supporting. I think right now, but I think I just wanted to add that I think That's one of the important messages I heard today was understanding the context of, um, of [00:48:00] what we know. So, for example, I've learned more today about the fact that I am actually privileged as a Maori male because of the privilege that has been mimicked by Maori men from a European colonised patriarchal system. So you know those sort of things? Uh, I mean, a lot. And I think that's the same. Also in the specific context as well. But But there's [00:48:30] other messages from you recorded on that, Uh, maybe slightly tell us. Well, I, I you know me, me and, um, me and my used to come to your question. Me and my, you know, we been up when he was 16. And, you know, I did 10 years with the AIDS Foundation, and we used to go to the schools. I think that going back into the school should be brought back home, you know, because we did 10 years in the school, and and we did. We did very well, didn't [00:49:00] we? And and and up in Northland, you know, there was we we had transgender that were 14. Um, you know, we had a great diversity within all the schools up there. So, you know, to the panel, I think we should be going back to the schools. And it's not about, um, out team them or anything. It's about giving them a voice. She fucking, [00:49:30] um, just quickly to answer. Mark. Um, I don't know what I'm doing. That's that's working. Um, Mark and I are friends. I'm a complete geek. I, um I write essays. I put them on the internet. I don't know whether it makes a difference. Yeah, thank you for your contributions. I've really appreciated hearing today and from the essays that Kim shared with me sort of previously online, which I found really useful. [00:50:00] I can just share one little story. I was really privileged, um, about two years ago to be the minute secretary to a workplace where I was the only in the room. As part of that experience, I needed to share my So I researched my heritage that got me onto the whole thing of I'm sixth generation New Zealander. I know where my where my people come from. It also was connecting up with my faith journey where I identify with a my nose, [00:50:30] um, heritage, which is multi Pantheon gods now as a for those who don't know it is the national religion of Denmark that was squashed in the year 10,000 because they wanted to do deals with Christians for trade purposes. In 1972 they turned it around and said, Yeah, as a is back as an official religion. But those of us, you know, revisiting our creation myth, which are there, and a very had to actually wade through all of the Christian overlay [00:51:00] to get back to what is there like Who's my personal deity? Um is both a father and a mother and a shape changer and, you know, has those multiple relationships. And this is a personal path I have done. But it was spurred by a need from externals. And so, hearing Tabby talking about working with young people, I thought, I think, yeah, potentially. Every young person, given the example of others can be doing their own paths and sort of journeys, and may they may not be ready for it, but it's, you know, something [00:51:30] that I I would recommend has been really valuable for people to actually do that. Looking back as well as looking journey. And I don't know if you've got any sort of insights or suggestions for how to help support people on that, because it can be actually quite challenging. I think. Um, yeah. Um, we wanted to find essays online. Um, I have a blog called, [00:52:00] um, that I think is linked to on the clip. Um, yeah, on the spill about this pen. Did either of you have suggestions or here as well? Suggestions on support for people trying to find find themselves [00:52:30] from experience. And it's going home. Finding your roots going to to where you believe home is is a good starting point where you believe home is and we we call it where you feel the place you can stand and say, This is my home where I'm from. This is my land. This is my turf. And even if it is 32 Balmoral Street, [00:53:00] go start. Everyone's got to start somewhere. Hm. That's one suggestion I can give for someone who's trying to find themselves. I was just thinking also that, um, something I got a lot out of. And from, um, this idea about, um, the need to create space and now, um, traditions, because colonisation has been such [00:53:30] a conscripting experience. And when I think about those stories that we all had at primary school and most of us, um, which tell our creation stories as if they are that simple or that or that modern to one particular and so um so close to Christian, Um, there's this lack of space and and a lot of us as Maori have have, um, brought that to some, not [00:54:00] through any fault of our own, just because that's how it's gone. And I think about finding ourselves about opening up that space as much as possible. So we have room to my, um, in our own traditions and um, not not be, um, constricted. And that's what I really I like your metaphor about the ocean in that way because it opens up all the space and that construction happens in queer [00:54:30] spaces that construction happens in Maori spaces. That happens all over the show when we are a minority, and I think we we're trying to if it's us, as people are trying to make a connection to a theory that the which has maybe got a lot of roots and notions. We need lots of space to go. How is that gonna? How is that gonna work for us? Because, um yeah, that counts for [00:55:00] feminism. Hugely. And how is it different for us? How is it different in relation to our traditions? Um, yeah. So heaps and heaps of space, but at the same time, lots of, um, lots of stimulation. And when you say come, you don't know what, um, what your work does or whether it does, It's like when I'm at university and I'm going Oh, boy, am I. God, I love to start with this. I go to your blog and I go to I and I go here and here and here and here. [00:55:30] And those are the spaces that open up that space for me to be able to bring something back to my class or some of my people that I'm surrounded by, that opens up space for them. And this with the this question, May I ask the question for my like, own personal experience of thinking out loud? Um, I'm I'm from the youth from the United States and [00:56:00] they sort of almost, I guess, like on the Internet, like identified as a queer woman of colour. But yeah, those terms do fail to to, like, define it experience in a lot of ways and just thinking about space, though I think that what the terms, like what the term queer did to me was like Give, I guess it's space for [00:56:30] identity definition that was like outside out of the family because, um, I I come from sort of like conservative family. And I guess, um and just interested in like that that that problem, I guess where if you want to be connected with some kind of like cultural heritage, um, but to do it, like on a path different from how your parents or how your family has received that cultural heritage like I was wondering if that's ever been [00:57:00] I mean in in in a different context, obviously. But if that's ever been a problem in your research or in your identity path, um, I'm Maori Catholic, And so the church is a is a huge component in my little village, where the Catholic Church, um um originated and was born, um, the the Catholic Church came. The missionaries came through the harbour and, um, started [00:57:30] the Catholic religion in this harbour Where I where I'm from, Um, my old people took on the church with open arms and, um, took on it, so took the church on so much that we don't have carvings on our in in in the, um because, uh, the church said it was pornographic. Um, so all the all the carvings came down of the and they were buried. Um, so, like, [00:58:00] growing up, I was like, how dare they I want I want a I want to go to like I've been to I've been everywhere, and they've got beautiful and they've got we don't. And I was so jealous and I was angry at my old people. But then I was like, Oh, it's not your fault. Um um, So, yeah, I went through a religion hunting thingy like, Where's like Maori had a religion before before the Catholic Church. Where's it gone? What's happened to it? Where is it? I try [00:58:30] to get it out of my old people, but they wouldn't say it was I was kind of dishonouring my my who took the church on. So here I went through that more questions, more fighting with my own people, and, um, to find my my cultural identity was that I was lucky enough to grow up in it right in it, right in the heart of it, I I'm a baby, as they say, so born on the marae [00:59:00] and just lived and eat and breathed it. Um, the language, the, um the the all those kinds of things that acknowledge the culture. It's all on the funerals, weddings, birthdays you live and breath. And you it just becomes natural. Your So that's how I look, my cultural identity, Like, you know, for someone trying to go back to find their cultural identity, go [00:59:30] back to the or something like that. I don't know. Go back to where you believe your home is. Like I was saying before, Yeah, my my probably couldn't be more different from yours. Um, I you know, the the diverse reality of growing up in this colonised land. I, um I grew up. My my family is, um I was adopted into our family who were told that I was [01:00:00] guaranteed by the crown that I was by the government that I was, um so I didn't. I didn't even find out that I was from until I was 30 something. Um and yes, So my journey is really different. Um, that was when I went to the, um to get the support that I needed to go home and talk to my in the bluff. [01:00:30] Um, yeah, I think to me, you know, being queer, being at the, um, I can call myself queer. I can put myself outside of the culture by giving myself this label, but actually, I want my culture to make room for me. I don't want to stand outside it and give myself a label to do that. And I'm not saying [01:01:00] that it's easy. It has been reasonably easy for me because I'm doing it as a nearly 40 year old woman. Um, much harder when you're younger. Um, but that's that's what we have to be working towards. It's got to be the ideal to to make our cultures have a home for us. If I don't already [01:01:30] Well, I don't think you'll find, um, culture within the religion because religion belongs to them, you know, it's word. It's the word. You know, when I was growing up we did our things to And it was all, all all all our prayers All our chances were all too I you know, when you when when you do see was clever We we took on Christianity, but we decided the whole book into Maori so we could still teach [01:02:00] our people our language, you know? So we we put the whole book into Maori, all those scriptures in there, and it's not about their um um, David, whatever. I don't know, inside the bible, it's the words behind the words that, you know, because one of one of the acts and the treaty is that, um they abolished, um, to, you know, and and taking on Christianity and this making this book into Maori. Well, [01:02:30] you instead of reading it in English, it was all deciphered into Maori. But it was the words behind the words that our people we were still teaching our own. I don't call it religion, but way of life. Yeah, I'm stay tuned to echo what people have feedback about, You know, everything that you've shared with us. Um and also the honesty and candidness [01:03:00] what you've given us as well. So, um, if you'd like to join me in thanking our families, and I'll pass over to Kevin to continue and back up, [01:03:30] uh uh to be here. Uh, [01:04:00] you know, with the, uh, uh, colonisation Or uh uh [01:04:30] uh being, uh uh. [01:05:00] And, uh [01:05:30] and, um uh, [01:06:00] that was really book and [01:06:30] thank you that to me like, Oh, you don't want a to know Have happy you help me. Oh, [01:07:00] hi.
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