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So Jan. Here we are at, uh, 321, Castro, which is the Enon Castro. And you've been here for how many years? 25 ish, And that is running the end. Yeah, I've been here in the country longer, but running the end and the end is probably about 32 years old is what we're we're thinking, meaning on the books. So in that time thing, things must have changed tremendously. But you have to see where [00:00:30] we came from from fifties Mammy Eisenhower and all that time. And it was, I'm sure, in New Zealand and everywhere the same. Roughly, Uh, we came after the Second World War, and everybody was all prim and proper and all driven. Uh, then the sixties came in where everything was possible and it was all about love, and and that changed it. The summer of love here in the sixties. Uh, it was up in the in the, uh uh which is one hill over. And that's basically where the gay [00:01:00] scene kind of gravitated to because it was, you know, all was possible. So there were lots of handsome young men out there that were not sure what they were. And then love was love. It didn't matter. We didn't label it then and it was all fine. Um, what happened then, though, is, um drugs started becoming from soft drugs becoming hard drugs. And then it changed the neighbourhood and, um, the artistically inclined moved up the coast. Those that [00:01:30] like to do a little harvest themselves. And so along Mendocino, you got a tremendous arts community that came out of that tremendous because some of the artists can, you know, demand 100,000 for a beautiful piece of furniture and just exquisitely carved, um, the gay scene moved from the heat to here because a we all love good weather. And that's the only reasonable weather that we have here in the summer months. Meaning you get to see some sun. And, [00:02:00] um, there was great infrastructure because the subway had just opened up. And so this Irish community slowly changed into more and more a gay community. It became more gay than ever when AIDS started hitting us. And, um, this became kind of the core. And this is kind of where San Francisco is known for as the gay centre, and that was based on the Castro. The number of people gay here [00:02:30] was, I would say close to 85 if not 90%. That has changed over the years, of course. Now, um uh, there's more straits in the last 10 years of, uh, women started coming in, which was a great thing. It was always lesbian still, but they were able to crest the glass ceiling in corporate America. Therefore, they could afford them to live here because by the time it started getting expensive, the women used to then live along Valencia Street or on Burn Heights, [00:03:00] which was known as Bo Hill. And so that's where the smaller cottage is. We have the houses here, they have the Cottages, and so that's still Lesbian Hill is still more or less. Bernal Heights is still a very lesbian. That's where you find the prams and the dogs. And in that, I mean the four legged kind. And then, uh, here in the neighbourhood, yeah, you you find less prams and more dogs, but that's a combination of two and four legged ones. Yeah, [00:03:30] So it's basically, um uh, now more and more, the 40 pluses straight that are coming in having a decent income because both working one say in the IT world. And for that, that could be either in the Internet world or the computer world, uh, down the peninsula or, uh, in general, the women tend to be more into, uh, uh, human resources downtown. Uh, and from when I started here, it was relatively cheap. [00:04:00] Now we're getting people that are coming in in our neighbourhood that, uh, changed buildings from the inside out. Basically, they leave the structure in place, but totally got it. And now we're getting into the time of gentrification with $2.5 million buildings that are not totally the style of what the neighbourhood used to be. But they come here. Most of them tend to be New Yorkers that buy this because from where they come, that is cheaper. And, [00:04:30] um, they want the bells and whistles and the whole thing. But they like the the somewhat grittiness of our neighbourhood. We're not really gritty, but there is a little bit of an air of we're not not this polished suburbia look. And so since the weather is good and you have great infrastructure, meaning the connection with public transit to downtown and connection to the Opera Symphony and so on. It's a It's a very desirable neighbourhood. Yeah, but still, thank God about, I would say, 75% gay. [00:05:00] Yeah, so? So there's still ladies from the past because we had an, uh, proposition. Uh, it's called, uh, 37. I think it was that, uh, allow people to pay taxes over, um, their real estate when they buy it. And that was to protect people. All the ladies that end up living alone, uh, not being forced out of their community out of the neighbourhood. So you have still the old Irish ladies that are still living here, [00:05:30] uh, up to, you know, the queens. And and so it's becoming more of a mixed society, which is what you want. You don't want this total segregation of us and them straight and gay, you know, as it used to be in the olden times. You know, lesbians here, boys. There, you know, it just become more of what life is in general and a melting pot for all. So it is. It is a nice free thinking society, [00:06:00] and that embraces all differences uh, celebrates all those differences, uh, in, you know, and that is not exclusively only the Castro it is in the city over all that seems to be more or less overall, more to permeate. Uh, if you read tales of the city, the books, uh, it's it's pretty much a reflection of day to day life then and that more or less continues, which is a delight. [00:06:30] Can you paint a picture of what the Castro was like in the late seventies and early eighties? Well, wild. Uh um, maybe a little too wild for its own good, you know? But you have to see, as I said before, it came from the the natural progression was coming from Amy Eisenhower and no flesh and no, you know, and being proper to flower power, which is, um, [00:07:00] loving one and another for who we are, and and and indeed having a good time with one another and not judge as much. But that went haywire. It went too far, as the pendulum always does. And, uh, so it was for a while, a little too wild here, uh, for its own good. And the pendulum swung back, but not as far as that it did in other parts of the country when it became very pious again, Uh, holy [00:07:30] than now it it has always had that real sense, this whole spirit of freedom and that allows people to be. And and although it's tuned down now, it's not as wild now which I think is better. We have ads here. We've seen some, um, wonderful archival clips on YouTube of marches in the late seventies and early eighties. Um, around around this area, [00:08:00] I mean, it must have been quite amazing, actually. I mean, you're literally 10 steps down from the corner of of market, and it was, um there was a lot of still repression here, and part wise was that also, you have to see that there was an economy going on in in the in and a lot of people don't see that part is that you have an a very Catholic Irish community that all of a sudden gets all these wild and really wild men and half naked, [00:08:30] walking up and down and so on. There was resentment there as well. Well, guess what? The police was built up 80% Irish, so there was an anger there too, Which was expressed to, you know, in terms of when there were rates coming into the CAS store as well. They're taking over. However, we paid for their properties. Market value. They did get. They did get their income. [00:09:00] This is Can I help you? Sure. Bye. Bye. So where were we? We were just mentioning other marches that we'd seen on YouTube. Well, that's the beginning of AIDS crisis when people started falling down and nobody knew what happened, or and then, um, the amazing thing was it was just like one doesn't [00:09:30] comprehend that. Somebody quote unquote has the bug and three months, you don't see them. They're an old person. They look like 80 years old, and then the next time they're gone, you know? And so there were so many that died. Um, and, you know, we're quite we were quite a substantial part of the city. It's less now, so percentage wise than when it used to be. Um, but, you know, there was nothing else anywhere [00:10:00] else. You know, one came to San Francisco. It was kind of like I'm going to mecca now because every city has a gay district or an area where one more tends to congregate and live? Um, that is less so. So the percentage has gone down politically because we were so, uh, very vocal. Um, And, um, demanding, you know, fairly. So to be seen and to be appreciated. And, uh, we became very strong [00:10:30] in, uh, being represented, uh, in in, uh, the Board of Supervisors. That is the the board that is right under the mayor. Um, I don't know what the equivalent would be in New Zealand, but, uh, so they're not running the city. It's just it is. It used to be direct representation of neighbourhoods. Then, uh, after Harvey milk got killed and and the mayor musco who put him out there, uh, as a replacement, He, um both the boys [00:11:00] were killed. Um, they changed the system, uh, in which it now was an all city overall election, direct election. And because we we knew that if you wanted to implement change, you have to get involved. The gay vote became the big vote in the city. Uh, straight didn't matter that much. Black was hardly well, it was represented, but not in the numbers that we were. So we were actually prorate a much stronger represented [00:11:30] on the board of supervisors we would have out of, um What was it, 12, 11 or 12? We had six. I think so. And that was all gay boys and girls and that it's the girls that have done historically the best, uh, in going further and further state level. Uh, really, Um, tremendous People came out of that time, Um, our mayor, who is now then the state senator Feinstein, uh [00:12:00] uh. All came out of that. She became the new mayor after the killing of the mayor and, um, Harvey and so that that changed things a lot. We knew we had to be there. We needed to to if you wanted to have change, you have to be proactive and and stay connected and continue giving money to the different courses to get ahead. Uh, but in the meantime, there's this political involvement of political [00:12:30] growth. All these people started dying around us, you know? And it was in the beginning, particularly awkward because we didn't know what was happening. And, uh, you wanted to claim your insurance and you were forced to move over in a different, uh, postal code because you your insurance would cancel your insurance or bring the insurance that high, that you couldn't afford it anymore. The ugliness of of that. Ultimately it corrected itself. But in the beginning, as anything goes in the beginning, it's [00:13:00] haphazardly and little ugly. It must have been quite tough. I imagine the the very rapid decline of people. You you cannot understand that somebody can die in such a short period of time, particularly when people are in the in the, you know, in the the fullest part of their life and highly energetic and and you know you have all of life in front of US. Youth [00:13:30] is arrogant about life and assumes that it will go on forever. It was just, you know, we would have, uh, the gay rank. The BAR would be full with 50 people dying, you know, every week. And it just was awful, you know? And that's then changed over time when ultimately we figured out a the psychology of it because one would say in the beginning Oh, God, I have so many counts [00:14:00] of, you know, white white blood cells and oh, my God. Oh, my God. That people started getting out of that a little bit, just realising that that was not the one and only going thing. And the psychology had to be along with it. And then then God prote inhibitors were discovered, and that's brought us to where we're at now. Where we were back to the normal, say, four or five people that pass in our community per week, uh, that are advertised in the [00:14:30] obituaries. But for the rest it is now. It doesn't mean that AIDS has stopped. And as we said before, there's still an arrogance with youth that, you know, they think it's an old man's disease, but it's still there, you know? Um, so it will repeat itself. I'm sure several generations still will find an answer, you know, And you just hope that we learn from the lessons to now I [00:15:00] have to say sadly that we haven't within the gay scene. There's still too much. Um yeah, unprotected sex, you know. So, um uh, but, you know, that's us living on the edge. I assume, uh, but it's it's sad because it shouldn't, You know, we should all be very practical. practical about it. And particularly when [00:15:30] you were somebody you don't know, um, intimately or you know that it's good to have a rubber around. What was it like when they just didn't know how people were being infected and and what could be done? Mm. Well, how can I say this now? It's [00:16:00] a part of living. Uh, and maybe we were We were a little cavalier about it in the beginning because we'd never had this kind of pandemic. If you look at the numbers, really look at the numbers. People don't want to look, really, because it is too much in your face. And it's better to kind of push it a little bit away and not really face it, but it is a pandemic or was a pandemic. Um, it's frightening, you [00:16:30] know? It scares everybody. And so what you had here was, uh, people. One of the side effects, if you want to call. That was that. People started moving out of the city to the burbs. To the heart, land of the right wing black. Sorry, blue collar. Uh uh Oh. When I'm away, then I won't get it kind of approach, you know, There's always denial. You know, we're good at that. So, uh and, uh, it's, [00:17:00] you know, it didn't change anything, you know, it was there. It was there to, uh, to be dealt with. And it went with a huge cost, huge cost. And, um, the numbers of people have died. It's It's kind of like, you know, don't want to say the black death, but we've had influenza that really killed an awful lot of people. And it's it's on that level. When there were major major, [00:17:30] um, diseases. Yeah. So it wasn't fun. And it the Castro became an old folks home and you looked around. In a certain point, it looked like Castro was for a retirement community. You know, all everybody looked old, and, uh and they weren't. But that's how it looked like. And it took about 10 years before the new young generation started coming back and saying like, you know, we have to move on. Uh, but as I said, naive [00:18:00] as they were not totally realising what they were doing and thought, well, we wouldn't get it until they started dropping. And then we had to do the whole routine of, say, sex parties of, you know, explaining how things need to be done, what you need to do to be, you know, to be able to live as a gay man and and enjoy yourself on all levels, but still be responsible. So but here we [00:18:30] are, 2008, and life has improved itself in many ways. And, uh, you know, then we had no examples. It was always about and and not a legal edge to it. You know, what you read in newspapers was about, you know, perverts and we dressing people. And, you know, all you saw on TV was, you know, gay liberation parade with everybody in drag. And [00:19:00] the assumption was, that's what it was to be gay. And they did not understand that So many facets. You know what you call normal people that were just as much there as well. And so that that now, since we have gay characters on TV and that taboo is broke and and the word is out and it's fine and we have no thank God for our local ambassador Mr Harmel, who was willing to take his, you know, stick his neck out and and fought [00:19:30] the Republican at that point in opposition during the last years of the Clinton administration, Uh, to get an openly gay medicine ambassador was not accepted. Before that, you could be closeted. That was fine, but not openly. And once that was approved, it was fine, As as it always goes, and then within the Republican Party, they can accept it as well. And then they have in their own ranks, [00:20:00] openly gay men as well. You know, not flaming Queens is what I'm talking about, professional man. But you know, that happened to live in homosexual open homosexual life. So and so, yeah, they've had tremendous changes, which is for the better for everybody. I think, you know, diversity is good, it's natural. And now, just over a week ago, um, California opened up the marriage, [00:20:30] and that's another step in the right direction. Um, of course, the question is, who is going to compete with the divorces? He, you know. But, you know, that's, uh, that's another story, but, uh, yeah, yeah, well, it's It's about rights, and it's as simple as that. And and marriage at City Hall has nothing to do about religion. It's [00:21:00] an It's a contract simple as that. And, uh, everybody has to have the right to have that contract. It's better for quote unquote family values, you know, for when you're two together and it can be man and woman, woman, woman, man, man, whatever you know, it is a contract. If you want to go to the church, that is your story. Then you go to the church, Different story. But this is, you know, and that just before it was No, no. But all the excuses that were held on was the same. All the excuses [00:21:30] for having blacks not voted equal. And it's all the same thing, all the same thing it is about equality and equality needs to be for all. So this is again another step, another great step forward for California. And as things go in, you know, with the westerly winds starts from California flips over. In this case, it started actually in New Hampshire and [00:22:00] Vermont, but ultimately got momentum here and has to do with, you know, our openly representatives in the state and local levels, um that have been pushing, pushing, pushing for equality and, uh, brought it all the way there is, that is, um that is from down south. Um, and it was a matter of time. But now it's going to flip back over to the East Coast again. It's just and [00:22:30] then slowly, as it did with the sixties, the wild stuff started here, went over to New York and then 10 years later, it's just reaching the Midwest, so it is somewhat the same there. It's a big country there. It takes a while. And that's true with with many things, you know? I mean, you can't blame people that are conservative that they are, because oftentimes they don't know any better. I come from myself from a farming stock in a military town. Well, [00:23:00] not much activity was put into creativity and painting and art and all of that stuff, and so you don't know any better. And that's the the beauty of city is the diversity that it creates. And, uh, this is where we have to be so careful of also with our environment is not to kill the diversity. You know, that is, in forests that is in oceans. It's everywhere the same. It's not to which human humanity has a attend the city off. Just [00:23:30] harvest. Kill it all instead of looking in what the Native American that is You know, you. You selectively so that there will be something left for the next generation. So but it seems to be a human trait. Call it greed, Whatever it is, you know, Quick, quick, back. You know. So but, yeah, Now we're We're, um I was afraid that during the, um, the Republican years that we would have a backlash, and that didn't happen at all. [00:24:00] You know, it just it is. It's like there's a consciousness and we've expanded. And you, once the gene is out of the bottle, you can't put it back in. And that is a wonderful thing to know that, you know, progression does exist and continues, and part of that is the diversity that comes along with it. The broader way of looking at things from Mummy Eisenhower very narrow and very limited. When we didn't know any better, because we had either [00:24:30] brown bread or white bread, and that was it. And now we're eating 50 different kinds of breads. What kind of a bread do you want? And that's where we're in here. with diversity in terms of humanity is knowing that nothing needs to be hushed anymore. You have now. The next move, of course, is the transgender step. And, uh, which we were fortunate that we have a hospital nearby that is doing that, Um, that is feminization of the skull so that somebody who goes [00:25:00] as male most of the time tend to be straight male going in and getting transferred into the female. Um, they've done a whole series of steps before they come to this hospital and then to get from male to female, they grind the skull and the jaw bones get adjusted and cut. And and that's another step again to following your heart. And that is, I think, if there is any one lesson in your life, it is. Follow your heart. [00:25:30] Our logic that takes one on one is two. But if you listen to your heart and it says yes, but something isn't totally right that you connect to a wisdom out there that, uh, tells you back off. It's OK not to make a decision for a while. And I think this is where we're getting more and more. There's a sensitivity now out there that is willing to look at the world as we live in a larger um, from a larger [00:26:00] perspective that allow us people to be who they are, and that includes being redneck or whatever. And just to see that we're coming all from different perspective. But the innate person is good and that comes from following your heart. You know, just listening to that inner voice and you get there where you need to be, you know, and you'll be happier and therefore [00:26:30] those that are around you will be happier. So it's if there's one thing what my granny told me, just I think that that, you know, follow your bliss, as a local American philosopher used to say.
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