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Hi. Good evening, guys. It's good to see you all here this evening. Fantastic. And what a great turn out that it is. Indeed. We're here tonight to pay a little bit of homage to a fantastic lady who, um, was a major part in all of our lives. And I think we've all got stories that will be told here tonight, Um, to our invited guests, the fabulous her worship of the mayor, Celia Wade Brown. Good evening, darling. Thank you for being here, taking the time out, the sitting member for Wellington Central. [00:00:30] And I'm sure it is going to be our first gay prime minister. Grant Robinson. Oh, you know what they say Grandparents see, be the tree grow. And, of course, Georgina by a member of Parliament and former show girl. Thank you. Tonight is by when we say memorial service. It is by no means going to have in much or any religious content. Unless you want to bring it in yourself. Because we're not really quite sure that's the sort of girl Carmen [00:01:00] was. OK, But I'll tell you what, as a young man, um, and I'll just get one of my little flighty stories out of the way Nice and early. Before I invite our invite guests up to do some. Speaking of which, then we will be having an open mic night. Um, when I was 16 years of age, I left school at the age of 15 and I marched out of home when I was 15 and I moved into Wellington and I met a fabulous bunch of people on the street. And, um, I discovered the royal oak, the royal Oak, the infamous bistro bar and [00:01:30] the tavern bar. Absolutely fantastic. My working life, my working life began on the street as well. And of course, in the old days when the bistro closed in those days, it was a 10 p.m. closing. We did a girl go. So we all went to Carmen's Coffee lounge and it was truly fantastic. It was a place where we all felt safe and secure, and Carmen looked after us. She took us all under her wing, and, uh, she would jack us up with the occasional client to help us help us pay our rent. And, [00:02:00] uh, I enjoyed many, many a times. It was some of the most fabulous whiskey coffees that you could ever imagine the best toasted sandwiches in town and some quite high flying clientele. Later on, I met a man, gave all that up, and then Carmen discovered that after all these years, there was a lot of gay boys going there and taking away a bit of the business from the girls. So she opened up. She she bought a little coffee bar we didn't buy, rented a little coffee space where she called triangles on the corner of major [00:02:30] banks and, um, just across the road from the Embassy Theatre going up major Bank Street. I think it's Hazel's restaurant or something now, but that was the first. I think that's probably my branch out into hospitality. Was working this little bar trying to, um, make the same famous sandwiches that Carmen did? But I can tell you right now they were nowhere near as good. But we've moved on, and all these years later I was I. I, um, I remember going to Carmen's farewell ball at the, um, majestic centre, [00:03:00] and I was right, and, you know, you know how you have an icon when you're growing up and you've got people that made a big impact on your life. And I, um, still had the invitation, but I couldn't find it. But I did have out of The Dominion Post from 31 years ago. Carmen's farewell. And, um, I'd just like to read a little bit of this because I think it's really quite amazing because some of you people are in the room, and I just want to tell you how the DEA Post described you all. Some of [00:03:30] Wellington's more colourful figures gathered last night in a glittering farewell to the most famous Drake Queen of them all, Carmen. More than 250 show people club people, not a lot of society friends let their hair down at the Majestic at a dinner and dance, which cost thousands of dollars. About 50 people anxious. The tickets had to be turned away. The guest of honour were pleasant in the black supply. In the description herself, a very expensive black evening gown was studded, beaded, glittering [00:04:00] in very expensive jewels, and with a higher than usual, she arrived in a shaker driven limousine. The party dubbed a salute to Carmen Herald in the transvestites departure. Later that week. I'm going to Australia first for a minor operation, the usual thing, just a little patch up, Car said last night. And it's off to the night spots of London for a year's working holiday, seeking a singing career in Cabaret. I think I'll do well. They have a lot of impersonators and people like that. In London, [00:04:30] I class myself as a coloured impersonator in Wellington. Carmen is known as a copy bar proprietor as a one time mural candidate, but not as a cabaret singer. If the campaign succeeds to shift some weight succeeds. I'm sorry, succeeds. Carmen hopes to try out some, um, exotic belly dancing with snakes, and he will also visit Amsterdam. When he's a cousin, he hopes to return to New Zealand. A new idea. The back of this show. Well, we all know that car really didn't make it pass. I think she [00:05:00] sort of went back to her room, and, um, and when I say that, I say that lightly. But enough about me. It's great to see you all here, and I would really like to, um, invite some, um, fantastic guest speakers up now, just to say a few words. And then later on, after this, we are going to be having a bit of an open mic night where friends, you can get up and say it and and re and reminisce with your stories of, um, the magic moments that come and created in your life because I know that she created, um, 1000 moments for me, and I'll never forget [00:05:30] them. And I think we have truly lost a, um, a top icon. But right now, could you please put your hands together on stage? Um, MP for Wellington Central and the deputy leader of the opposition, Mr. Grant Ronson. Oh, thank goodness. You're all in the dark. Uh, thanks, Mel. And, um, thank you so much for putting on this event. I think, um, everybody, when they heard of of Carmen's passing in December, was hoping that there will be some occasion in Wellington [00:06:00] uh, that we could come together and have a chat about her. And, um, there's nowhere more appropriate than S and MS with the lights low. But it feels appropriate. Um, I don't I didn't know Carmen terribly well. And I, I think I'm not going to speak for very long, particularly with Georgie here to be able to to give some memories, um, that she can. But I wanted to just say a few words in a sense, on a on a political front about Carmen, because she was a very political person in all senses of that word. And there's actually a a political story from her early years that possibly people [00:06:30] don't know a lot about. Most of you will know, um, that Carmen was was was born as Trevor, and and, uh, another person who was living in was a man named Colin Mallard. And he was a businessman in the town of and, um he knew. And in fact, he, um, taught in a school for a little while and he taught, uh, Trevor Rupe and Colin, um clearly was retaken with, um Trevor Rope because he named his first born Trevor Mallard. [00:07:00] That is, in fact, that is, in fact, a true story. Because many years later, um, Colin Mallard was walking down, uh, Vivian Street with a group of businessmen friends in Wellington. And Carmen threw open the door of the coffee lounge and shouted Colin, Colin and she was in her full finery. And it took Mr Mallard many days to explain to his business colleagues that really it was from Tom. He knew that. [00:07:30] But she, um Carmen, obviously, as as everybody knows in a political sense, was known for the tilt at the meal and I I toyed with her slogan, Get in behind for my 2008 election decided It probably wasn't what I was needing at that point. But, um, that campaign obviously, um, thrust coming even more into the spotlight as Georgina and I were just discussing it was as much as anything about getting more publicity for her and the the many ventures that she, uh, was part of, uh, in Wellington. Another political, um, thing that [00:08:00] she did was that she was actually called before Parliament's privileges committee. And now that I'm in Parliament, um, I realise just what that means. The Privileges committee almost never meets. It's very hard to actually get it to meet the last person who, um dominated. It was Winston Peters so up on that level for, uh, but she was brought there because allegedly Well, she not allegedly she had actually said that, um uh, some members of parliament might have actually been gay or lesbian. Absolutely shocking thought at the time. And it was sir Robert Muldoon who caused her, um, to, uh, to be [00:08:30] called to the Previces committee. Uh, which is ridiculous, that hypocritical little man, because he was the one who pounded Colin Moyle, um, out of Parliament by making all kinds of innuendos about it. But Carmen went to the privileges committee, stood up to them and and posed for a remarkable photo out on the steps of Parliament, which is one of the great memories of Parliament. Um, we showed, um, uh, car around parliament a couple of times when she came back to New Zealand, most recently to the Rainbow Room at Parliament, and she was retaken by the fact that there was a picture of her [00:09:00] in the Rainbow Room at Parliament, so she had finally made it inside the walls of parliament as well. But overall, I mean, the main thing II I think of Carmen is of somebody who broke ground, and and there always has to be someone who's first. Someone who's prepared to put their hand up and stand up for who they are and When Carmen came back here from Australia, opened the coffee lounge, opened the balcony, opened many other places. As Mel's already said, along with people like, um, Jackie Grant and Chrissy. Um, we took, uh, it was it was an incredibly, [00:09:30] um, vibrant time in the city. It's what opened up the tolerance and diversity not only for the trans community, I think, but also more broadly for the gay and lesbian and bisexual community of Wellington. And I think that's the tribute to Carmen, that she was the person who did that person who went to prison, a person who had to constantly battle discrimination throughout their life but never, ever took a single step backwards. Um, even she was in the Mobility scooter. She never took a single step backwards in later years. Um, and that's the kind of spirit that she brought [00:10:00] to the city. Um, she's someone that that I think we can all look at in in the Rainbow Communities in Wellington and say That's the person who lead the way, lead the charge and and made and helped make Wellington the great city than it is today. So those are some of my thoughts about Carmen. And so I think we should remember her today as that kind of person. And I just really want to finish by saying thank you. Thank you very much. OK, now, a, uh, former [00:10:30] showgirl, a former mayor of council and a former member of Parliament. Ladies and gentlemen, Georgina Bowen. So I can't take her. Um, you didn't need me much. I Grant you've been You've been reading my speeches. I'm getting it out. Look, uh, yeah, we're here to have a celebration rather than being incredibly mournful when car passed, um, last [00:11:00] December probably wouldn't have been entirely unexpected that if she was gonna go. It's about this time of of her life. And what a fabulous, fantastic, interesting life she led that had a social change element to it. But I don't think she ever understood how important a figure she was in that herself. Such as her humbleness, gracious, hospitable. A warmth about her [00:11:30] that endeared people to her of whatever, um, ilk of life they came from she poach borax. If you like at the establishment in many ways, in order that she could be who she was and be happy to live in her own skin. Yeah, a little bit risque, but nothing, you know takes two to tango, you know? And, uh, not all of those people out there were sort of, [00:12:00] uh, a social deviance. In some ways, they were sort of your husbands and your wives, and she knew that even Parliament knew that. And, um, in some respects, you know whether or not she knew that rich her brushes with the law legendary. I think some lawyers made a bit of a name for themselves. Sometimes keep the truth newspaper, I think, taking over as a financially viable entity for quite some time with a number of, if not front page and certainly page three shots. [00:12:30] Who else could go to the races and stand next to the governor General and drop a top so that cavernous cleavage of police could be shared by the nation exhibitionist? You bet, baby. She had a business. It was a unique business. She had a niche, and within that niche that encompassed her love of entertainment, her love of her showgirl life. And we see some of it here behind us. Yes, that's Carmen. [00:13:00] I came to know her in the late 19 seventies, about 1976. And I flattered with meal and that very flat he was talking about, along with our other flatmate, R, who did the sweet transvestite act at the balcony. Um, in its dying years, I suppose, at that time, they had groups like Arthur Baton and Red Mole and people like, I bet we doing gigs there. Um, toward the end of it, the names of Carol the Winter Queens like that Vicky Crystal, Um, a whole sort of range of girls. Showgirls [00:13:30] quality girls come and only wanted quality. His car always came out for the art of poses at the end, which I think that photograph over there, uh, depicts, uh, pretty well. I couldn't possibly do justice to all the people that have passed through and been touched by Carmen and her establishments. Um, it's been mentioned the safety in some respects that she provided for the fringes of society, the margins that lived in and around Wellington as it happened to be here. Her history didn't [00:14:00] just exist here in Wellington. It was a huge for us here. Added to a rather colourful um bohemian Cuba Street represents it pretty damn well, um, and and carries on that sort of nature of Wellington, Um, that existed the Orient. You know, there's all sorts of little clubs and cafes and things that started in that era of a very conservative New Zealand. So for someone like Carmen to come out and find a gimmick is what she [00:14:30] got on to. Fantastic. In it came with her persona, the persona of Carmen, the three wigs and a couple of hairpieces, jewellery and everything dripping over her. That deep plunging cleavage, her via Lucas gowns that she would wear. Or someone had flipped her something from a Benson and Hedges Award just so that she could wear it down the street and got noticed she would leave. She would leave her apartment or her flat. Uh, down there in Vivian Street, you people [00:15:00] would almost set their watches by it some time and wait. It was almost like a wait to see this fabulous galleon sailing down Cuba Street, Cuba mall owing to everybody that came by acknowledging Hello, A warm hello for everyone. A gesture that every retail shop owner along this particular stretch, uh, would have known when Carmen was out tour buses used to pass by in some respects, and the hut boys and the boys [00:15:30] of the boys that would come into town for the night out and they'd all go to the bistro or simulate that. And many things did close early and they would shoot up and could do the puff from the bistro up Street and all the other pubs that were up this way until they hit the red light area, The club exotic with its 10 blazing over there in the corner, the purple onion down the road with that beautiful. You know, I'm sort of trying to paint a picture here of some of the colour that we no longer have. [00:16:00] The last vestige that I see is that neon signs, stripper signs still hang on the corner of the old exotic building over the road. It sort of is something that we can look and go. Oh, yeah, And that used to flick on and off. Carmen provided for me, at least as a new young queen in 1976 or so. Not only my, um, opening up that there were such people that exist and that I could perhaps pursue all the and the things that I'd dreamed about being a woman [00:16:30] and wanting to be a girl when I went to the balcony with Reon, who was doing the sweet transvestite act there, and there were these beautiful, fabulous looking women who had hugely deep voices and just as deeply dirty minds, I yes, let's not forget those who exploited Carmen's good nature sometimes. And, um, you know, those people, I hope, can feel a little [00:17:00] bad about what they might have done in those days. However, you know, because I think if you'd only asked she would have helped in some way or another, you might have had to work for it. Speaking of some of those characters that worked for her even down in the old coffee lounge, Do you remember the exotic minarets, that very colourful facade? I don't know what painter did it, um, but it just fitted the perfect exotica, the calm and wanted the Chinese lanterns, red and orange with the big tassel coming down Mame, Carly paintings on the wall and all of that kind [00:17:30] of and all of those sort of velvet. Well, remember those velvet paintings, all of that kind of exotic. She had big tapestries, wall tapestries that would hang up on the walls and this poky little coffee lunch that she had and the little sort of kitchen out the back, which only had the toilet out the back, no particular back door. So everyone had to file through the kitchen to get out there. And who was it that stood there in an Audin hip burn dress? Red wig, um, high heels gloves up [00:18:00] to here with plastic washing dishwashing gloves over the top of those but Lola, poor old Lola, who got the back end of Carmen's tongue from time to time. That's because she, Carma might have got a little frustrated with the customer out the front or some drunken drag queen or whatever. You know, she never really drank. She never took drugs. She never smoked a cigarette, and yet she liked to offer hospitality as best she could to all of those who went there. She did deal with the high [00:18:30] brows and the low brows and her times. I remember it, and, um, it was nothing to watch car and come bursting out the front just to do a little walk up and down in front of the coffee lounge. Or when she later moved to where the evergreen, where it became the evergreen where she was there briefly, um, after the original coffee lounge next to the Salvation Army citadels. Can you imagine what they encountered when at five o'clock on Sunday morning, as the Salvation Army personnel [00:19:00] were preparing for the day's worship, the creatures that would come out of that, um, that, um, establishment down there. But Carmen had a place upstairs. She gave me my first client. I'd always wondered how calm could walk in the front door of the place and then disappear when there was no back door to the place until she offered me my first client just to help me out and needed help. Um, and she sent him out to the front door and down the alleyway beside the old coffee lounge to the, um, external [00:19:30] door to her upstairs apartment and pull back the tapestry inside for me to whip in so that I could meet him in the little internal door that went upstairs. And then we rendezvous and go into one of her exotic rooms that she had up there she was apparently once famous for having a coffin in her apartment, you know, because she was into the occult for a certain period of time. Look, I could go on and on, and I don't know if I touched on about some of those things, but I guess I'll just conclude by saying she was a force a tour de force, [00:20:00] frankly, that existed here as a business person who not only had a coffee lounge, strip club, tea rooms, brothels, And I don't know if the people in the town house would understand what went on there in all of those days. Um, and and she touched many people, I think just to let you talk a moment on her running for the Wellington meal bid, which truly, you know, she was a self promoter of the greatest great, fantastic [00:20:30] entrepreneur. And even though she wouldn't have had a clue how to run a city, um, she would have given her a damn. But she doesn't want her to wear the jewels. And she would have had to have had the gowns to made to go with it. You know, she would have done the figure head stuff all you know, quite happily, but actually running with him, she probably would have had a difficulty. But that's where Bob and I don't know if you're here, Bob Jones, But, um, that's where perhaps they might [00:21:00] have been having. It was a wonderful Well, you know, we might giggle at it now. It was brave. It was sort of courageous. And, um, And it and it pushed some buttons for people, Um, who probably never thought that no such thing would happen. So I'm pleased to be the next generation after her who has benefited from the legacy of what she's done. I'm just but one. There are many, uh, but politically, uh, to actually, she sort of put the hairline fracture [00:21:30] in the pink ceiling. And then I went ahead and smashed it, and, um, and and got it. And, um, it was a, uh, you know, proud to be able to say we delivered your prostitution reform that you talked about back in the 19 seventies. Not simply because you did then, uh, but because it did come to pass. You had vision. Um, in some senses, as far as homosexual law reform was concerned, Yes, I mean, you know, it came to pass. And if it wasn't for figures like [00:22:00] her at that time who were visible out there being who she was and happy to live in her skin to then pass that on to all of us in the diversity of the rainbow community as an inspiration, Um, for us to sort of go Well, you know, And we loved her. And New Zealand loved her. And as it's turned out, so does Australia. And, um, but her time at the fun stage. Sorry. Makes her her her, um, here, uh, with us and so much [00:22:30] of an important, um, you know, part of her life, um, was spent here. I often wonder if she would actually like to come home to the end of her life more permanently. But there wasn't a lot of security offering for her here, So perhaps we need to think about things like that. Um, for some of our, um, you know, uh, those of us who are, you know well, not me. Um, you know, But who are getting to that age where there's a generation passing on, which means an end of an era? Um uh, I. I believe that [00:23:00] te papa need to go over to Sydney and pick up her room at her Riley Street flat and just transport it as it is back there. The memorabilia for those of you who haven't had the opportunity to ever, um, go to visit her there if you ever did the memorabilia she has there is an a snapshot of an incredible piece of social history in New Zealand. She is iconic on that regard, highly respected by many people. Yes, sideways, glanced at but never shied [00:23:30] away from, I mean, to bridge that gap for us from one person. Um uh was quite remarkable. And not just for transgender. I don't think that word was invented in her day. You know, they talked about in that article drag queens and female impersonators, and that's how they were sort of considered. Um, she was a lot more than that. And what a wonderful persona. Um, just a parting shot to the politicians. [00:24:00] No statue to blanket men. Yes, to Carmen. You. We got that. We started this and you hadn't arrived yet. But Trevor Morley, are you in the house? Yeah. Trevor, would you like to pop in and say for your words, please. We've got, uh this man is absolutely amazing. This is one of the gentlemen, uh, a retired police officer. And I'm sure he's gonna enlighten you some fabulous stories [00:24:30] about his time with Carlin. Welcome on board, Ma. It's good to see you here again. Thanks very much for the introduction. Um, some of you may recall if you're at, uh, Carmen's birthday a few years ago, Um, myself and my sergeant, uh, made a presentation to Carmen. I'd love to know what happened to the Purple helmet. Perhaps perhaps it proposes Georgina [00:25:00] in the flat in in Kings Cross. But look, I, I just want to say a couple of words, uh, about Carmen, and I'm here from a different perspective, of course, than any of you because I in the sixties and seventies, I was a detective on the vice squad. And it's perhaps significant to note that in those days there were vice spots in Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin. But times [00:25:30] have changed. And now there is not one vice squad in one city or town anywhere in New Zealand. And I think one of the reasons for that is because of the changes in the law relating to VI and morality. And one of the reasons they've been those changes, as Georgina pointed out, is because of people like, um and without wishing to sound flippant. Carmen was one of those people who genuinely had the courage of her convictions. And there are very, [00:26:00] very few people of whom you can say that. What I do want to say about Carmen is that in all my dealings with her and my sergeant Paul fitters, who went on to lead the committee to oversee the introduction of the prostitution law reform, we both said, and I said it at the time of her birthday. If everybody we dealt with on the vice squad was as pleasant to deal with as Carmen always was, then our job and the job and the people we were dealing [00:26:30] with would have been a lot lot better. I notice, uh, young Tom in the audience here, Uh uh, now Mr Stacey's son and, uh, whenever we needed to talk to Carvin and she wanted legal, it was vice. It was a quick call to Roy Stacey and he came down and we would sit around and sort out whatever the particular matter was. But Carmen was genuinely a nice person to deal with. Uh, despite the fact that she and I shared the same [00:27:00] first name which lead to some hilarity, of course, from time to time. And I just quickly relate this story. It wasn't very long after I'd been transferred onto the vice squad. That, of course, uh, Carmen's friends and associates got to know that this new detective was Detective Trevor Morley. So it didn't take long for me to walk into the coffee bar on Vivian Street and through the noise and the smoke and the [00:27:30] haze, you would hear perhaps a slightly high pitched voice call out Trevor. And Carmen, of course, would turn around to find out who was using her real name, because that was something you didn't do. I always called her car and she called me Detective Morley, and the first names were never used. And to use her name in that situation was terrible. And then through the haze, you would hear Trevor only to make Carmen angrier until she finally [00:28:00] worked out who the culprit was. One of her friends or associates, of course. So she would front up to them and wave that big hand under their nose and accuse them of using her name, which she never did. And in sort of mock solemnity, they would say, No, no, no, no. I was merely calling out to Detective Morley. I became, if you excuse the phrase, the butt of some jokes. But look, Carmen did in fact have the courage [00:28:30] of her convictions. She was a lovely person to deal with. I do believe that because of what she did, what she stood for and what she was prepared to do, that there were changes to the vice squad law to the vice laws, Uh, and that adults now can, uh, as, um, Pierre Trudeau said, uh, get the state out of the bedrooms of the nation because it has no place there. And I think he was very forward thinking like carbon was very forward thinking. And, uh, you [00:29:00] know, I'm just pleased to have been able to come along tonight and just explain to you from my perspective, which might sound a bit unusual being a former police officer who arrested her several times to say she was a great person to deal with. Wellington is a is is Is is the loser for her going Because she will not. The likes of her will not walk these streets again. And Wellington is a sadder place for it. And, uh, I just want to let you know that even someone with my background can appreciate [00:29:30] a person such as Carmen when you come to deal with it. And just thanks very much for the opportunity. I would like to uh, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome, um, you worship the mayor City, Wade Brown. It's good to be here to celebrate somebody's [00:30:00] life at the end of a very colourful life. A life that was spent thoroughly enjoying herself as and many other people, too, as well as doing good work for other people and the way that she supported people the way that she drove the way forward. So that today you can be any gender, any combination. But of course, you can't smoke in the bath. So isn't it interesting the changes that we've seen [00:30:30] over that time? I came to Wellington in 1983 and I was really quite surprised at how narrow the views of some of Wellington's society were at those in those times. So I'm really proud to be the mayor of a diverse city of a city that actually values diversity. It doesn't just tolerate diversity, but it thinks it's a really good thing, whether that's culturally and personal expression or as a thing [00:31:00] in the economic world where there is so much gay tourism, pink tourism, transgender tourism and also creativity, I mean, what more creative on average group of people. So it's been interesting, and I'm sure I'll hear when I listen to other people's stories learning a little bit more about Carmen. I met Carmen at her birthday party in Courtney Place, and it was wonderful to meet somebody who wanted to be mayor and was actually [00:31:30] so warm and so well loved. And I just hope I'm not quite the standout nonconformist, but I like to be able not to conform, if only in some of the transport ways of this city. And, um, I think she again set a path for people to be valued for who they are for who they want to be, not just for fitting in So Hari Hari Hari, Carmen [00:32:00] Thank you, though. Ok, that's fantastic. And, Scottie, you haven't had to notice Ricky Mama in the crowd, have you? No, he's not here. That's really a shame. Actually, we had planned to look upstairs, too, and he's not up there up there. Um, we had the privilege of, uh, back in 1986 of doing Carmen's 70th birthday down at the, um, at the boat ship. And it was truly fantastic night. And, uh, we had planned on getting Ricky here and he agreed to do it, but unfortunately, he's not been able to make it by the looks of it. [00:32:30] Um and but we got I said, I said to Ricky, um, you know, Carmen is such a strong character, and I've never seen her cry. I want to make her cry and he said, How do you gonna do that? And I said, I want you to get up and sing one in a million. And as we kicked off the show, um, Ricky walked on stage, spoke very briefly to Maori to Carmen, and we had said to her, Carmen, um, Carmen was under the belief that she was coming back from Australia to celebrate her birthday. [00:33:00] But what she didn't know was that she was going to be her birthday and a celebrity roast where we got people like Trevor Morley and lots of other people that have been through in and out of her life. And, um, and could relate stories about her in front of her. And it was truly a fantastic night. And and so I mean, right, come on, I wanna make a cry I've never seen her cry And we got Ricky to get up and see Um And we said, Carmen, there's 1000 people in this room that absolutely love you and adore you. And this is what they feel about You and Ricky got up and sung that beautiful song. One of a million. [00:33:30] And I tell you what, it took about 30 fucking seconds. Tears flat out. Great on. OK, we haven't got Ricky here. So now we've got the chance. Um, no. Actually, I'm gonna get one more speaker. I do have the and Trevor morning was just saying Roy Stacey I. I had the privilege of meeting Roy on a couple of occasions. We've got Roy's son Tom here, who's got restaurant down in the street. And Tom has got a couple of little stories that he'd like to share with you. So, Tom, if you can pop down here, mate, and just, uh, add a few words about Roy and, [00:34:00] um, how they actually met. Well, um, thank you. Uh, yeah. For those of you who don't know me, Tom, Tom Stacey is my name. Um, I am the son of Roy Stacey, who was, uh, camera's lawyer from, uh, a hell of a lot longer before if I knew that she was coming. I tell you a story tonight. Uh, that [00:34:30] is that Probably not a lot of people know, uh, a woman by the name of Connie Shearer features very, very briefly in Carmen's book. Connie Shearer was the head dietician of Wellington Hospital, and she had a young 17 year old boy from, uh, king country working in the kitchen there. And I should also mention that that, uh, Connie was, uh, living in companion and lover of my father, [00:35:00] um, and and and and a saint to my woman because she said she she was an influential person in, but, um, Connie came home one night and and said to said to Roy, um, there's a young fellow who's just getting a bit of harassment, Probably from Trevor Morley in the place. But, um uh, and I'll come to you later. Trevor. Um uh. But, uh, so Roy Roy was a extraordinary [00:35:30] sort of liberal sort of guy years ahead of his time. And so he said to Connie and I and I remember I was only a small boy and, uh said, Bring up, you know, Well, I'll have a chat to him and make sure he make sure he's OK. And, uh, so a couple of nights later, Connie turned up with this very effeminate 17 year old lad from King Country. Uh, obviously gay, um, [00:36:00] but without a without a society to practise it, uh, legitimately and, um, and Roy just Roy. And he just sort of, I don't know, just Roy Roy identified with the right of everybody to practise whatever they want to do, providing no one else gets hurt, you know? And, uh, so that was the beginning of a legend. And and and and I, uh, I was there as a as a small, impressionable [00:36:30] lad. Well, not that you know um and, uh, and not that impressive, but, uh, and and I was impressed that it didn't It didn't, uh, it hasn't taken it. Right. Um, so but, um but But that was the that was the start of a relationship. Uh, that went right through because, um, uh, Stacey Gibson, as they were in those days, uh, leased organised the lease for Carmen's coffee bar. Uh, Roy [00:37:00] appeared for Carmen in a couple of trials. The Carol, The winter trial. Uh, which Trevor I'll talk to you about in a minute. Um um and also before the parliamentary privileges committee, Uh, where she said that one in five MP S was homosexual. Um, she got that wrong. Um, Anyway, um, two points I want to make [00:37:30] is that is that we have a salute. Common. Uh, but I don't think the evening is appropriate without mentioning, and I'm obviously biassed, but II, I think my father needs to mention, um, to appear for someone like Carmen, Um, with the stigmas and everything that existed in the late sixties and early seventies in this in this society, you know, took an enormous amount of courage and people like [00:38:00] the law society and all the rest of you know, and I don't think there's any doubt amongst people who who know that, uh, Roy was probably the best criminal defence barrister that this country's ever seen, and he never became a QC. And he never became anything else. Purely, I think, because he did things like stick up for and other people. But, um, he was just he was just years ahead of his time. And I don't [00:38:30] mean to to to diffuse from Carmen tonight in in talking about him. But he is part of the picture, right? And, uh So, um, the other thing I would say about, uh, about, uh, about is, uh, in those early seventies, you know, when you call them the coffee bar. It was just amazing. You you you It was It was a little bit like, sort of a a sort of a liquorice all sauce, wasn't it? You'd go through that door and there was a There was this huge wooden bar, remember? [00:39:00] You know, all this bloody bar back and and you and and you'd go and and you might you might find a whole lot of people in sort of jeans and, you know, denims and this and that. Or you might find a whole lot of people in black tie having on the way home from a wall or to them because it was the only decent place that you could get coffee, you know? And it'd say in those days, what, 11 o'clock midnight at night, You know. So, Trevor, just if Trevor Trevor is still here, I [00:39:30] just want I just want to qualify, uh, one thing, and and and and And it is something that's never been recorded to or recorded legally. The the the famous trial, which was a groundbreaking trial. Um, the Carol de Winter. Carmen, you remember that? I'm just speaking to the black shadow here. Um, but, uh, the classic was was it was was it the, uh, the crown? And it was a mark of respect to [00:40:00] Carmen and Carol de Winter. Uh, and also, I think Trevor and you may very well want to confirm this later on. Might have been in respect of Roy as well, but the crown took a dollar each way. They in those days. Uh, it was charged with sort of and I. I don't know whether I've got the wording right. But it was soliciting a a male soliciting with the intent to do an indecent act upon another male or a woman soliciting. And so they [00:40:30] took a, you know, joint charge, right? The the conviction that it was handed down was to Carol. Winter was a woman, and, uh, it was probably Roy's greatest trial. Um, he did many, but it was It was It was probably probably one of his greatest, but, uh, am I right there, Trevor or I got if I got that in the gist of it, right. Oh, here we go. I I'd just like to clarify what [00:41:00] what Tom's been saying because it's actually a very, very fascinating and interesting legal point. And if you go back in time at the time, this case with Carmen and Carol De Winter, uh, came to trial in the Supreme Court, as it was then called a male, could not be in law. A prostitute, only a female could be a prostitute. So when we arrested Carmen and Carol de Winter and charged Carmen, [00:41:30] uh, with the offence of brothel keeping, and Carol was a party to that offence, We initially, of course, thought that Carol was a lady. But then as the investigation progressed, we discovered that she had been born a man which immediately threw, if you will, a spanner in the works or or or some other part of the event. [00:42:00] So one of the first things we had to do was to determine um, Carol's, uh, sexual identity. This is called DNA and that sort of thing. And one of the first things you do from a legal point of view to prove someone sex is you call their birth mother to give evidence that yes, that's my child. And the child that was born was a male or a female. So I spoke to Carol about that aspect of her life and she said, Well, I don't know who my mother is because I was adopted, which through a another spanner in the works. So [00:42:30] we eventually traced her her her birth mother. Uh, and then we had to call a complicated, uh, lot of evidence about what in those days was the difference between a male and a female. And it wasn't just your genes. It was to do with things like that. the width of your shoulders compared to your hips, the shape of your pubic hair and all sorts of things. But the the the interesting fact of the case was that the jury found both Carmen and Carol guilty. So what that, [00:43:00] in effect said, was that, yes, a man under New Zealand law can in fact, be a prostitute. And I think that there was another little piece of the jigsaw, another step up the ladder that said, these laws have got to be changed. So in a somewhat perverse way, that conviction helped to create a situation where the politicians eventually said, and the weight of public opinion said, Let change these laws. Let's do what Pierre Trudeau the then I think he [00:43:30] was then the prime minister of Canada and get the state out of the bedrooms of the nation and that nothing else Both Carmen and Carol should be congratulated for, as I said before the courage of their convictions. Thank you. Um, that that was Trevor boy, who was my guest speaker. Ladies and gentlemen, um, I think, obviously, um, uh, the messages across Carmen was was an [00:44:00] icon to the to the city. Um her likes will not be seen again unless Georgie does the same thing. And the the point I really want to make is that is that, uh, um in losing the likes of Carmen losing the likes of Roy Stacey 10 years ago, uh, losing the likes of various colourful people. You know, the city loses a little bit of fabric, and it [00:44:30] is up to us who remain to keep that fabric. Um, the only thing I would say in passing and and the woman, as I mentioned right at the start of my address, uh, is very very dear to me. She wasn't my mother. She was just a a person who had a immense, immense sort of influence on me. Uh, Connie Shero, you know, without Connie Shearer, Carmen quite conceivably could not have existed. So when you're having a drink later [00:45:00] on, you know, grab it and think Connie Shearer. And now there's a name. You listen it to her. Thank you very much. Oh, it's quite amazing. Really. I I've just been sitting there and I was listening to Trevor saying that, you know, it's quite, you know, it's impossible for a male to be a prostitute. I remember Queen Victoria well through the history book saying that it was impossible for a woman to be a lesbian. Haven't time has changed. Um, I'm glad we had the pest board. [00:45:30] I was a bit there. OK, this is there are our special speeches to the ladies and gentlemen friends of we'd like you to invite. We'd like you to invite you. Now, if you've got a colourful story that you remember, Carmen, we've got lots of Carmen's old friends and yourself up there and some beautiful friends of Carmen's here. Please take the time to, um, pop up here and share your stories with us. And, um please just introduce yourself when you do do this so that everybody else in the room who may not know you does know who you are. So please, ladies and gentlemen, open mic, Please [00:46:00] come and join us on the floor. We've got a come on put together with this gentleman. This is the fabulous passage. Well, hello, everybody. The party is not for me. This is a celebration of Carmen I. I met Carmen when she was, uh, 22 [00:46:30] in Sydney when she used to look like this. She was so beautiful in those days. I was working at LA Girl both and in Sydney when came out for an audition. They've never let her work over there with me in those days. You're looking back at 50 years ago and after that there are the memories that I've had. She's been such a good friend. We've been friends for all these years, you know. I'm 77 years old. [00:47:00] Car was two years younger than I am. But when we came to Wellington after him, my eldest son was born in Sydney and I decided to come home, come back to Wellington, and I came to Wellington around 60 something 64 65 and I opened the purple onion. I'm the party that was famous for for opening that city plan, which which is the Purple Onion? Cheers to you, darling, I hope [00:47:30] you're looking down because and we've never sort of. We've always been friends of all these fields. She used to come down when we first opened the and and she was a big help. But we used to We started off the club having an old review, which was a show with all the drag queens that was working there and people were writing things like on the walls outside of the funny little place. I'm sure everyone here has has heard around about my [00:48:00] age. They've all been to the and they've come from there. All the ones that have been made themselves big in in the strip club business as well as Dr in Wellington was well known is from the So I was placed in a way when when first came over here, she didn't have those clubs in those days. She didn't have anything, but she was working, doing my coffees over there, and we talk all the time. She was She was such a wonderful person. You know, comedy is is [00:48:30] I She was She was just a friend. You know, there was never any competition between me and Carmen in those days. Apart from the club, exotic. I was the first one that opened in Wellington in those days. And, uh, and all this time, too. When when she was she went back to city and all that she had so much you know so much. So many people have told stories about Carmen that Carmen was this and that. But they all know Carmen and respected [00:49:00] her because she was was the first one that sort of stand out and come out as a as the queen as a transvestite. It was very well known and well loved because I've never really come and or anything like that. She was such a lady in so many ways, and I'm basically proud of her to be to be to know her just as a friend. But anyway, that's we're here to talk about, But, uh, I'm so I'm glad that you asked me to come. Thank you very much just to say [00:49:30] something about her because I remember her when she was young. I left the country when went to America when in, uh 78 and I was there for 30 odd years. Most of the young queens that are around now, and all the trans started around at the those days. They were only little kids in those days before I left, and I didn't have much to do with it because I left the club with a and and my son, my oldest son, Mark, And they were writing it up when I left, I took my two younger kids and went [00:50:00] to the States. But I've always come back to Sydney, and I always have to call to have a cup of tea with her and talk of all these years, and I couldn't believe it. There's so many people that just respected her because she's she's been that kind of person, you know? She's funny and she she she's just a great person. She is, you know, everybody loved her. And so it's all the drag queens and all the the six strangers to that. They have a daughter because she stand up for what she believes in. And she's always been like [00:50:30] that right from the beginning, you know? And I loved it really do. And I'm so pleased that that you've got so many friends that remember you for what and I love you and and and I remember you of all these things. I used to laugh makes me laugh because I came over to her place. She always have a list of It's like a death list of everybody that we know, but she has a list down of everyone that's dying. All the Queens that drop off car will have a list. It's like [00:51:00] I think you've seen a movie of the dead list or something. Car will have everybody down on her list. You can the one that you can find it at her place in Sydney, in King's Cross. It was just a small place, I think. Not that half as big as this, but she has all the pictures and she had a mind that is so clear of everything else that goes on. She's never had any bad word to say. I know she's been done by by so many people with her life over here as [00:51:30] a She was going to be the mayor of Wellington. She was, She was She was famous, you know? And she sticked out for her people. She sticks out for the Maori people, which I'm Polynesian too. And we're the only ones that that are sort of sticking up with this, you know, as far as that's concerned. But, um II, I know that everybody in the world will remember her will remember, And I love you very much, so thank you for the opportunity. [00:52:00] That's truly fantastic. I wasn't going to say anything But, uh, I will now, because the story goes back to Victoria University and a group of young law students celebrating after the last exam. We went to the purple onion ring, Uh, and we became [00:52:30] over refreshed, one way or another, um, and a glass ashtray was held at one of the dancers. Anyway, the police were summoned, and we all ended up down in the police station down. And then to, um one of the law students was employed by Mike. I was employed [00:53:00] by John Tanner Hill, and we were locked up. The charge is being indecent. Uh, some other violent behaviour threatening this and disorderly behaviour? Certainly. Um, so when when we went into the cells and were, as the police say, processed, um and we were rubbing out our fingerprints, [00:53:30] but we were unaware that they were watching us doing that through the mirrors. We also didn't know that Mike and John Tan had been called down by the police to to watch all this. It all ended up in court and serious business for us because we were young law students faced with these pretty awful charges. And so many students came down to watch. They shifted the whole proceedings into the arbitration court, [00:54:00] which used to be just behind what was then the Supreme Court. And now, ironically, is once again the Supreme Court. Anyway, there we were, and, uh, we were triumphantly acquitted for one reason and one reason being that Percy Daniels, uh, the complainant of the being the owner of the premise did not realise that I was employed by his lawyer, John, Uh, and nor [00:54:30] did he realise that my other offender was employed by my anyway, it was all sorted out in a sort of reasonable way, but it was reported in the truth, and I was terrified that my father would get, but it seems not that he would ever read the truth. But But, um, but two law students acquitted name suppressed, uh, bad behaviour strip club [00:55:00] in the street. All that now, uh, where all that's leading me to is that as a young lawyer, then, uh, another student in the law firm, uh, I met her and, um and, uh, you know, she had this ability to sort of comprehend everything. And anyway, where am I leading to with the story? Who was making [00:55:30] I haven't seen it. Oh, yes. Um, subsequently, Pasi had a house up in Arrow Street, and I ironically, he asked me after I was triumphantly acquitted. Uh, I don't know. Quite what happened to the glass ashtray allegation? Um, he I I have set for him up in, and I haven't seen him, so we're going to have a great in a minute. Um, but, uh, [00:56:00] the upshot of the whole thing was that we all met Carmen as young students in those days, and she was an extraordinary person. I found her slightly intimidating as a as a straight fellow, and this kind of slightly overpowering, um, drag queen was a bit unusual. And those that fast forward, I don't know, maybe 10, 20 years. I was walking up William Street [00:56:30] in Sydney, um, staying at the and I was heading from my hotel, and I heard this unmistakable voice after 20 years. Hello? What you been doing? Want to have some fun? You got it. It was Carmen. And I said, what do you remember me? And we [00:57:00] had a bit of a chat, and she did. God bless her. She did remember all the years later so there's just another little vignette. Thank you. Listen to me. Good night. Fantastic. Thank you. Cheers, mate. OK, uh, if you wanna pop in on the same for your OK, Uh, obviously, [00:57:30] no, but I just like to talk about Carmen the lady, the person, Not not what she did. Or, um, you know, all the things Carmen was the most beautiful, loving, giving kind lady you could ever meet. I used to go and see her in Sydney, you know, and she was on a pension, and I know what it's like. I'm on the gold card now, you know, [00:58:00] But she always found $20. She would always be trying to put the $20 into my job and say, you know, go buy you a cup of coffee and a sandwich on the way home, girl, You know, um, people don't know of her generosity, her love that she gave, you know, she gave so much love. And, um, when anybody came into town, Carmen always made sure that she was there to help them and make sure that they were looked after. If [00:58:30] you rang Carmen, she'd say, I'll meet you so and so we'll go for lunch, and she wouldn't let you pay. Um, I think that people forget about that kind of thing And how, um she gave all of us girls a chance at jobs. Um, and yes, it's true. She got ripped off, you know, by some, um, But she knew that. I mean, she said to Shelley, obviously, you bought a car with my money. Where are we going? [00:59:00] And different ones. We go for a do I pay for that sex change, do you? So she wasn't stupid, but she still didn't care. She loved. She loved our community, our people. And she knew what our people were like. She grew up amongst it. And, uh, I saw her when I was, um, 14, 13, 14. I'd run away at 13 to be me and I was at I come from Auckland [00:59:30] originally, and I was a and and she walked in and this beautiful being walked in and she on them and she had a figure like a figure eight. She was absolutely stunning in the young days and lovely long black hair off her face and just hanging out. And, um, I was so intrigued by it I ran up to the counter. You know, I. I hadn't sprung her at first and I ran up to the counter and I knew the girl behind the counter. And when she left, I said, Oh, Mary, is that a Is that is that a Is that a like me? Is that And she said, Oh, how did you know? I said, I don't [01:00:00] know. It was just something about her And she went. I followed her to Upper Queen Street, where she was working for Ray and Hastie. It was just the early days of strip clubs, and she'd come back from Sydney to work in the Strip club for Ray and Hastie as a favourite. And I followed her all the way there, and I was standing at the door all the time looking every time the door opened. I looked to see if she was on stage, and she clicked after a while that I was there and she said to the guy on the door, Just let her in, let her come in and sit in the bathroom. She's not going to do any harm. [01:00:30] She just wants to watch. And so they used to let me go in and watch the shows, and I got in to watch the shows for nothing. And then she went back to Australia and I came to Wellington. But I just wanted to finish with saying that, um, don't forget that Carmen was a beautiful, loving, giving person, and that's above all things and always a lady you can never you know. I'll tell you a little funny story. You never heard Carmen swear or [01:01:00] or, uh, raise her voice or say dirty things. You know, dirty jokes. But she had a wonderful dry. We we were took her out for lunch at Fox City. Um um, films up in up in Sydney when I was living in Australia, and we're sitting there and we had this young, uh, nephew of my friend Natalie's with us only very young and we were talking about she was talking about being in prison. And what and did the boys put their through the people. [01:01:30] I mean, when I was in jail and I said, Oh, yes, and I used to whack up with my with my F knife and she said, Oh, I used to say, Oh, I couldn't how disgusting. And we're all taking a sip of coffee. Wait. And there was this long, and she went Gul. Bye. Uh, ladies and gentlemen [01:02:00] Hey, right now I've got this gentleman I met. I met, uh, Ed cars. 70th birthday at him and his partner And now all the way over here from Sydney for for this, um, fabulous little gathering we've got tonight. I could you pop down here and say your please, mate, And, um, I feel truly privileged, mate, I've gotta say this. I've just been given a, um, having done Carlin's 70th birthday, I was taken a CD of her 75th birthday. And, darling, I treasure. [01:02:30] Hello, everybody. Um, we weren't, um we haven't got a speech prepared or anything like that. Um, but, uh, because we weren't 100% sure whether we would be coming. But my name is Jurgen Hoffman, And this is Robin, my partner of 30 odd 30 plus years. And, uh, and, uh, we're from Sydney. And, um, we sort of came into Carmen's life. Um, at the later stage, it's been 11 years. We knew Carmen for the last 11 years, if you like. And, uh, we had a great time [01:03:00] with Carmen and what I just said, er in relation to Carmen, never have never saying a bad word never having to say anything negative about anyone. That was just Carmen, as you all know. And, uh, Rob will share a story with you a little bit later, Uh, on that, uh, particular point, but car never swore. You're right. She never had a bad thing to say, and she never cried once once. Put your hands up. If you've ever if you ever saw Carmen cry, OK, 12 there's about three hands up here. Alright? Well, in the 11 years [01:03:30] that we knew Carmen, we only ever saw her cry once. And that was when her sister walked in the room from Tomassi. Tessie walked in the room when she was in there. When she was in hospital, Rob brought her in, and Robin actually saw tears come down Carmen's space, huh? That was the first time and only time. So she was She was a very proud woman. And, um and, uh, we loved the dearly And a lady a lady at all times, OK? She never She never complained. She did not complain OK, but she she loved attention. OK, [01:04:00] if you fussed over Carmen, she really well and truly love that, OK, Right to the last day, in fact. And, um so Robin, Robin was, um, Carmen's main carer for the last, um, 12 months. Um, there were four guardians that were appointed. Robin was one. I was Carmen's, um, financial manager, Guardian as well. So we did that. It was a great, um, a great journey that we went on. Uh, and for me, it all sort of happened. It's all come to an end far too quickly, [01:04:30] far too quickly, because we were in Perth there for a few days. We came back, and, uh, we went up to see Carmen in the nursing home, and she was in a beautiful nursing home, the best nursing home I've ever been into. I wanna put myself into that nursing home, OK? In about 25 years time, it was actually that good. Alright, so, um, we've got some Great, um, some great photos of er of Carmen in that, uh, in that place. But there she was carmen, uh, looking a little bit unwell. And, um and, uh and I said to car. And, [01:05:00] um, what do we need to do? Carmen and Carmen says to me, me alive. Those were her last words to me Keep me alive. And it was only this morning when it dawned on me what she I think what she was actually saying to me keep her memory alive, OK? And that's I guess, what we're here for tonight. And that's what we're really trying to do. So, friend of ours, Kelly, back in Sydney and, um, Robin and my and myself and shanette her niece [01:05:30] up in Brisbane. We actually you may have heard about it. We're putting together this Carmen Ruy Memorial Trust with that one view in mind to further her legacy and all those wonderful things that she stood for. OK, so that's what we are hoping to do. In that way, Carmen's memory will live on and on and on. Thanks very much. Ladies and gentlemen, everyone, um, I'm a bit shy on a microphone, [01:06:00] but, um, be cars car. Sorry, but actually be car. This is the first time I've actually spoken about, um, the last I'd say two months of time of of my time at Carmen. So I'm gonna keep it very brief. Um, all I can say is that a few lovely people here will know that Carmen [01:06:30] had a a very peaceful passing. It was absolutely beautiful. I was in the room with her from her last hour. And if I can say you will be pleased to know that her passing was absolutely beautiful, very peaceful. And thank you very much for being here. Thank you. Thank you very much. [01:07:00] No, you're doing You're gonna make something on me, OK? It's, um anybody else there that would like to say a few words at all. Everybody's OK, I think. Ok, it's been fantastic. Alright, then. I think we're gonna be, um, I. I think a young fool here, Phil would like to say a few words to you. Baby, I am Bill. I'm come back with car into your late sixties. I have known car very well, but not [01:07:30] to the infant knowledge of some of you have. But my I've known her in a professional capacity from broadcasting my first introduction to her. I was in the closet quite horribly, but, uh, you just had to be in my generation. I was playing top sport. It was difficult to be up with a boy on Friday night and play rugby in front of a crowd of 5000 on Saturday. I can tell you the showers were quite interesting, but, um and some people would ask you Well, why did you get to look like in the shower? And I said you ever played 8, 80 [01:08:00] minutes of rugby and then, um, got to a shower and you don't feel like doing anything. So anyway, um, when in the old days the television production office, the studios, we in Taylor Street and the production office is on Victoria Street, where the main library now was it was right next door to the international Carmen International balcony. And as it happened in my day, I used to go to sports practise and come back. And because we're short of equipment, some of us had to work the night shift. So I used to work late at night, sometimes [01:08:30] just in a sea of short, and it's quite hot. And when we went to go and have A or Mimi, the urinal was right next to the it looked straight down into the back of the balcony, and quite often they'll be outside sitting out there and there'd be all that are going on and someone who saw me having a pee one night because the window was open. Oh, who's that? And Palmer was down there looking. Hello? So we got invited me and that person I was working. We got invited back for coffee, [01:09:00] and it became a regular occurrence to be upstairs behind the stage with all the things happening the first time. It was a really strange experience. I'd never seen people fix his top and bottom before. But I saw them and, um, was so charming and got to know here reasonably because then we went down to the coffee lounge and and had, uh, bourbon and coke and a Coke. Um, and Mr never came and made this. I can appreciate that. Um, but anyway, [01:09:30] and getting that confidence up with Cameron, we went to do a telethon in 1976 which Mel would remember very well because Mel turned up in a bridal dress with some guy they had got on the what was the name of Silver Star? The endeavour gone up halfway up the line with the buckets came back at about five o'clock Sunday afternoon. Turned up was at the show building, which is now the advance, Uh, thing up there and, um, we put them on stage. [01:10:00] But that that was a bit sort of was quite funny. But it wasn't as funny as earlier on because I've managed to talk Carmen into coming on television. And up until then, she'd never really appeared on television or in the media as Carmen in a formal sense. And I said to her, we'd like to I told we must put it in context that TV two in Wellington. Um, the television labour government has set up a bit of channels. So we had TV one, which is running from Wellington and Dunedin [01:10:30] and TV two running from Auckland. Um, Christchurch. Those of us who had a little show in Wellington producing the news and they sell the advertising. Um, we we were left with trying to organise this thing called Tele Tele, which none of us had ever seen in our life before. And we also had, um Auckland and we've been Wellington said we can do better than Auckland. So how can we do it. So I said, Well, look, um, we tried to think between midnight and dawn, we did not know what [01:11:00] was gonna happen. And all I can say is, telecom just took off that night, and between midnight and dawn, what are we gonna do? And I said, Well, why don't we have some strippers on? So I said, Go do that. And I said, Well, what do we get chairman on? She seems to be a bit well known around town. Can't do that. And I said it is an option on with Wellington. Let's get on with it. So being positive in Wellington in the early days, I picked up the phone and I rang, came and I rang this copy lounge. No answer. So and I took it down the car and said, Hello. I hadn't seen you for a long while, Young man. [01:11:30] I said, I want to do me a favour. Would you like to appear on on? And I can't remember what cause it was that year, but I think it was and something. And she's not anything for charity. Anything for charity, darling, Can you even know what the cause was? That you you raised money for? Yeah. Anyway, so I thought, Now I've got to put it on. I was producing a studio presentation of the whole thing, not the overall title. And so I had this all scheduled. I had people like Baz and Hamilton on those who [01:12:00] remember those people those days, uh, Roger Gas. And he was wondering around the studio, and And we have people coming in one board going out the other and somewhere or telephones over here. So what you did as a person on a panel you got on the panel, read up the PiS. Then when you've done your stint, you'd go and pick up the bucket, go round the audience, then you'd go and mend the phones. Well, try and explain that the camera is a bit difficult. So she said, I'll come along. And I said, What time do you finish? Thinking [01:12:30] more like two o'clock in the morning? Oh, I'll come along at one o'clock if you like. And I said, What about some of the girls I said, we can't really put them on naked. Oh, she said, No, no, no. The kids could have things here and they test and we can do a few things, she said. But I, I said, I can't get them naked because it's gonna be embarrassing. Leave it to me. So anyway, we arranged for the girls to come down about three o'clock because bear in mind in those days it's still 10 o'clock closing. So this strip club more this place is about to be. Yeah. So [01:13:00] anyway, Karen sat watching this thing at home at eight o'clock at night, start at eight o'clock and got carried quite away by Roger Gas and a lot of people. So she arrived in her taxi or whatever about 10 30 at night. So I've got this big thing. What some people described as theatre in action was sort of put on the makeup, put on the match him in the handbag, hold up, and there was an action. That's what I had walking in door because all the heads turned and and when you're watching television and you got camera [01:13:30] that way and everybody's looking off screen and what what the hell has happened? So we had to put this grand arrival of Cameron on at about 10 30 at night, and here I say, What the fuck am I gonna do now? You know, because just bear in mind, she been not in the public eye like she was going into This is this Uncle Tom, Dick and Harry all sitting in the audience and not many kids. But there's another story coming up here. And anyway, so we decided the best thing to do is put [01:14:00] on the panel. So we put over a list of and P us out. In a way, she went and people warmed up to her. They started ringing in. Would you get up to? We had a pile of bloody pitchers who couldn't get her off the panel. Anyway, Everyone was happy, and it was sort of he was a whole thing fairly. That's world was saying come and lots of guests we got, we got And then what? What we gonna do now? And, um finally we got off about midnight. He going shut her up, have a cup of coffee the other day, and the girls [01:14:30] turned up Well, the girls weren't meant to be there till three o'clock in the morning. But there was nothing happening in Wellington. Everybody was glued to this bloody telephone And he was She got the idea to go and get a fucking money on the train and they look So anyway, we got these girls with long guns, so we set them up the back of the audience and, uh, they did their number the, um, Auckland people watching our show, and they decided that this was quite fun. So we went nationwide. So came and [01:15:00] went nationwide. We got this and then what happened was the girls went on at three o'clock and I looked around and I started to see kids coming into the bloody show. And I said, What the hell are kids arriving here at three o'clock in the bloody morning? It's just that buzz Mum and said, We have Buzz Bumble here at six o'clock. So? So nobody no, I've got car sitting on stage here. He's naked deals wondering around, kept them bloody money and kids riding with their mum and dad and mum and ask him what they and cars just in there. Oh, well, they better [01:15:30] live in some time. I it was it was as funny as night on the top of off later that day. This one turns up and in the bottle. Gallons, for God's sake. What have you done now? What's your name today? I said, I can't say anything about heis. So they got away with interviewing and boom. I nearly lost my job over all this because in his famous paper called Truth, um, published on a Tuesday I had Monday off. Thank God I came in to find out my boss [01:16:00] was, um, a bit agitated that he should come and see me. And I thought, God, something's gone wrong here because we've done well. We've made millions of bloody dollars first thing and people are still talking about. And it was the first one ever, and he threw me down the truth. And he was a photo of me and his grieving there, not to mention words about Carmen. How the hell did you let that go on TV this? Um he was a man, not a woman. I said I didn't know that. How the hell did you know that? [01:16:30] And I said, put the party in there. And how the hell would I know? And I was busy bloody on his show. I said, I just got bit of earlier on came and come back at that stage, I find a deal with all this. Plus a donkey that got stuck on the bloody stage in the Woody donkey along those little head. The donkey had bags on it coming down, um, from the zoo where he lived up yet got him into the studio. And when you produce, tell you have the panel that is your safe shot. When I in doubt, cut back to [01:17:00] the bloody panel and get them to open your mouth and talk. Well, we have sitting in there and I don't know if you've seen the photo of this car is sitting looking over the back of his donkey, they won't bloody move. We can't go anywhere because the place is packed and we've got the journalist behind the donkey doing this, the bloody back legs up and Carvin looking at the back. It was hilarious. Anyway, the comment, that was that. Why I'm telling you this. That was the first time Carmen was [01:17:30] able to go out to every Tom, dick and Harry and Lisa and Mary and all that with money. And people would look at her not as a curiosity number, but as a person who generally cared about things because I'd heard her talk and things like that. Now this is 1976. When she left New Zealand, I was able to go and see her and I said, Look, we'd like to cover you leaving New Zealand for a programme called Close up and those of you who have ever go to the archives. I don't know if it's on the A thing, but it was a very moving programme. Maes a cabaret. All [01:18:00] the wonderful people there, all her support. People were there. I think I think he might have been. I'm just not too sure, But, um, we were interviewed here. But the most poignant interview at all was a chap called Paul Ransley. And I was able to perform here in the back of a coffee lounge or there about to bring me down to sleep. I sleep and we filmed her and we did an interview. She was as humble as Emma, fascinated by the lights around, trying to tell us at this time in the morning, she doesn't really put this much makeup [01:18:30] on if she had to and, um, we got this interview and you just seen AC. I think we were close to it. I said to her, You're saying goodbye to New Zealand. We need to interview to some some. So we brought the camera back and she looked in the mirror and she took off her. She took up the eyelashes and she put everything down. And that's what we end the programme on. No word you said or she said goodbye to New Zealand so that that programme it's a close up programme. Uh, whatever year it was, [01:19:00] um then recently, now we talk about, um she came back to New Zealand about a year ago. I think it was. And those of you who may have seen on the Internet there photographs are taken in bib street outside the which is roughly where evergreen is, uh, up in the rainbow room. It's quite, uh, pretty cheap. But the most important thing is we took across the National Archive Alexander Temple Library. Now she has donated her New Zealand memorabilia [01:19:30] and she did that some years ago because she didn't know she couldn't get it all on the plane. And she wasn't going to pay money to get it over here. Um, she didn't say if you had any, so she she gave it. My advice was to give it to her to the archive, but she did. So I said to her, Let's go up to the archive who've been across at Parliament and as said she was quite fascinated by the de was a picture of her on the wall in Parliament at the moment. And, um, she sat down with the curator and she could [01:20:00] not. She was absolutely so humble and so stunned that someone could get every photograph and label it with the names of the people in. So she did help out the win work, plus all this other person and I see her look, someone, they could, um, actually do this for her. So all I'm saying is those of you are talking about the room. I think it is easy to move something. What they do, they take a photograph of the room. Then they carefully number everything. They put a pack it away carefully, [01:20:30] and then they bring the whole lot over, and they could do that. Now, the thing I'm working on at the moment, um is there was a question as to how to complete that archive. You've got the trust going up, which is the future. But we do have a Facebook page and we want to preserve that. And, uh, I'm just trying to work out. Now. I need to talk a few experts here mind as to how we can get that to national archive in its form, that can be added as, uh, information against what's already there. [01:21:00] So on that note, um, I have very fond members of Carmen. I've had a lot of laughs, and she may come out of the closet by default, and it's been quite an interesting ride. Um, and I think, as everybody has said, she has led the way. My view on a, um, Memorial. I'd love to have a statue or something outside the architectural college because I remember her walking up there and waving at the bus. The timing was impeccable. [01:21:30] She I don't know. Anyway, I'll end on that, and anybody can simulate on about the other questions I'm raising about the archives and that I really appreciate it. Thank you. I think we're just about getting close to about, uh the, um, end of this, um, official engagement for Carmen's memorial. I'd just like to say a couple more words. And that is, um, Carmen, I will never forget the many times I enjoyed in the venue. I'll [01:22:00] never forget the amount of time you used to send, um, all the way down to, um, to street to which it is now. The warehouse, which used to actually be the old milk treatment station at two o'clock in the morning car was Lola down there, Lola, go and get the milk. But she can't stop those old ladies cane baskets on wheels down there at two o'clock in the morning. And Lola would be away for, like, three quarters of an hour, and then it would be an hour, and then she'd come back. She'd go. Lola, where have you been? I had to blow the dust off. I was [01:22:30] doing deliveries just as we were going around with come regular tree. I'll never forget the time, Carmen, when I stood at your balcony when she was down where the, uh, library is now and the fabulous gypsy absolutely gorgeous. The most towering transgender you've ever seen here Higher than Carmen's and Carmen would, uh, have this beautiful long catwalk with all these gorgeous, fantastic ladies with their tassels out there doing their dance routines. [01:23:00] And there'd be a couple of rugby yos in the front row over there, and we would go to Gypsy, get rid of those two. I remember standing aside, gypsy won on each hand, and the stairway to the balcony was like this. And Gypsy just go fuck off. Right? She created a lot of fun, a lot of experiences and a lot of, um, memories for all of us. Some of [01:23:30] us have got to be spoken about them. Some of them are getting us close to our hearts. But, Carmen, for all of us here in this room, you will never be forgotten. Ever be forgotten? You're in our archives of our minds and our history. Thank you for being a part of our lives. And, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being here. I we're gonna play a little bit of sort of like, old time music downstairs right now from our from our era. So, [01:24:00] um, if you want to have a little bit of a or or socialise upstairs, please feel free to do so. But, um, if you want to stay downstairs and enjoy a bit of music in that era, please feel free to do that as well. Thank you guys of cultural era of music downstairs. But I'd like you all to give a big hand. Oh, my gorgeous husband. You did a fantastic job tonight. You. Thank you so much. So much for taking time out. We have a very busy schedule as this Grant. Thank you for taking your time out. To come here and be with us tonight. We appreciate it, but all our [01:24:30] distinguished guests thank you very, very much. We're now going over to some nice, casual Cruz music of the era down here. Give me a chance to mingle. Mix This one is for to I [01:25:00] the Thank you so much.
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