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I think that Carmen to me, comes back a very long time ago in the early 19 fifties or really the middle of the 19 fifties, when I came to, um, Auckland for my first time, I didn't realise there were other gay men or we used to never say gay In those days, we used to say Camp a camp gay came out later on years later, but, uh, I didn't realise there were other camp men besides me around, and I then I met them [00:00:30] in Auckland. I met them doing the beat in parks and down back streets and toilets and, um, in hotels and certain bars because it was very, very strict. Those days you had to be 21 and I met these gay guys. And then we used to go to a lot of movies and a lot of films. And then I was fascinated. One time there was a very famous film came on the screen, also in the late forties, called Rita Hayworth. It was called the Loves of Carmen, and I thought, What a pretty name and [00:01:00] I didn't know anything about the loves of car. I only knew it was this beautiful lady, Rita Hayworth. And her name was Car. And I was fascinated by her because she was so exotic looking exotic dancer and, uh was sort of a car in the opera. And that's where the name came from, Carmen and I. Then we used to go to camp parties and sailor parties in Auckland, and they were all. And then I met other Maori and Islander and Polynesian and people [00:01:30] who were at these parties. And I got a fright because they had, uh, names of jazz singers like Ella Fitzgerald or Pearl Bailey. And so they decided to call me. They thought that I'd be suitable for Carmen because I was also a dancer. I used to get up and do not professionally, but just get up and dance with the say the boys. And that's where I got the name Carmen and I used to laugh at LA Years later, when I used to crack it on the street, they said, How did you get the name? And I say, [00:02:00] I used to lean over in the car and talk to the man. It was a joke, you know, but that's where it came from. from my camp friends. They called me calm and and and And the name stuck. You used to do other dance routine, too. I only I started off in the 19 fifties in Auckland. I did dance, uh, in in in Dunedin. Uh, when I was working down there working in a clothes factory, called and [00:02:30] then when they used to have a factory party once a month, they wanted some dancers. So I said, I'll get up and do the hooli as a guy and they loved it. So every time there was a party on they used what I used to love was in those days, I was about 20 or 21. Something like that, maybe a bit earlier than that. They used to invite the Air Force base. It was called then and all these beautiful guys used to come from the Air Force. So I wasn't looking at the women. I was busy looking at [00:03:00] them because they were so beautiful in their in their air force suits. And I thought, Oh, aren't they gorgeous? Of course I had to be careful, too, because I was living in the immigration hostel, and in those days, people were very straight and very square. But, uh, I still have my eye on all these beautiful guys. So I became a hula dancer and I and then I started off in Auckland by, um, a guy called, um Lou Clawson in Auckland years ago. [00:03:30] He had a talent quest in man, and I entered the show talent, quest and doing the And that's where I started off. And I came over here to Sydney and became a dancer and an impersonator. And also I learned the belly dancing from a friend of mine who was a Greek belly dancer called Rita Exotic belly dancing. And I also learned the dance of the Snakes. So that's where, uh and became also a strip tease dance [00:04:00] and took the act back in New Zealand. I wanted to do the Snake Act in New Zealand, but there's a whole lot of trouble. I wasn't allowed to bring back snakes in New Zealand in that era, so I was still not. And I can do the, uh, Maori dancing, too, which I'm very pleased. Thank you. To Mickey and Derek. Um, who taught me that the Maori action songs here? Um well I have to thank another guy by the [00:04:30] name of the late. He was well known on television in the fifties, singing with the Clive Trio, Isabell cow and and, uh, Virginia. They were very famous singers, and then they all broke up and went their own way. But came 1960 or 61 the same time as me to Australia, and he and he was taught the dance of the snakes. So I said to him, I love to learn that snake [00:05:00] dance and he said, Well, come to my place and I'll teach you. And there were two lots of snakes. They were diamond and carpet and I we both liked the diamond because they're pretty. You see them on high heels news. You see them on handbags and belts. So we both love the love, the diamonds. They were five or five or 6 ft long, and they used to sell them in the shops and, uh so that they don't do that anymore. Now, this is the early sixties and taught me the snake dancing, and I put [00:05:30] it in with my act at LA Girls Night Club when I started there in the early sixties as a guest entertainer there with off the show. Did you? Oh, yes, yes, we have to look after them. And what you do is I had two and you feed them separate times in case you might be wanted for dancing from the age and say, Look, you wanted here to dance with your so try and not feed them both the same time because what happens is you feed them. They they sadistic, uh, creatures, [00:06:00] the snakes they like to kill. So what you have to do is we have to buy either guinea pigs or live rats, and we throw them in the cage and then they kill them one at a time. And they they can swallow the whole lot and say within half an hour to say 33 mice or a guinea pig. Throw it in the in, in, in, in the in the cage, and the snake will just swallow the whole lot down. And that's when you don't really dance with the snakes because otherwise they're vomiting or they'll make a mess. [00:06:30] Yeah, so that's why you use the other snake for that. And then when the other ones had a rare. Then you feed the other one. So it was absolutely great. It was absolutely great. I had them for a long time. But I tell you the beautiful thing about them. You can leave them at your front door on the brand. And you know you won't have any burglars. They got so frightened that they went, um, they they were very, very good. I enjoyed I enjoyed dancing with them because I thought it was a novelty. They were different [00:07:00] and lots of people were so fascinated, especially the tourists and a lot of New Zealanders who came over and knew that I was dancing with the states always came to the club to see me dance in Kings Cross. So and you've got to keep them. Uh, you mustn't hold them tight on your hand. You try and let them relax and crawl over you. But they used to bring me undone in those days because they used to coil around my wig and my wig used to fall off my head while I was dancing. So I had to be very careful with keeping away from my wigs. Um, [00:07:30] you never had any trouble. I mean, they didn't bite you or anything like that once. I think if I can remember, right. Yes, I did. And today they picked them up a little wee, um, like a you know, like a and picked them up in those days. We just picked it up with our hands or anything that moves. They will snap at you. But I was told that once they do, just keep your hand, your finger or your arm very still. And they think they've got nothing let go. But once you move and they start digging in their bangs I did once, but there was. [00:08:00] I know a lot of guys who were snake. Uh uh, milk the snakes. A lot of them were just covered with bites. And I think one of them was sad, sadistic man who loved it. I saw a lot of guys who had a lot of bites on there all over their bodies, but, uh, now I was very, very, very lucky. I called my The one was called Simba and the other one was called Topaz because one was a bit lighter, like a to colour. So that's what I call them. How about the [00:08:30] um, did you do that? I did it in New Zealand, but then I did it here, too, and I and I got good at it, and I started by buying nice hula costumes. And I always think that whatever act you do, try your best to look the part. Uh, and if it's Hawaii or Tahitian or Maori, try and look that part. And so I did in New Zealand, uh, when I first started with Lou Cross and I had an old, tacky old hula skirt, But I was going to say thank you to Lou Cross [00:09:00] and thank you to that tacky old hula skirt because it got me in on the stage today. So I say, Thanks very much for that. When I came over here, we had to be our acts and better our costumes and our music because we had a lot of competition with lots of dancers here from all around the world. Egypt, Hawaii, Tahiti, Maori, English wherever. So you have to try and look as nice as them, or better so that you've got to work through the ancients. Yes, I did the hula dance here and whatever, Whatever. Whatever you know if [00:09:30] you can do everything yourself, it's great if you can drive a car. That's great. If you can do your own makeup and your own wigs and your own make your own costumes, it's better. Still, you get the more work in there because a lot of people have to rely on people to get them here and there and do their make up and and do their wigs. And I was lucky. I was quite talented. I was able to do everything myself. Um, did you ever have anybody, uh, choreographing you? What? Did you make your own dances or you say [00:10:00] you learned some dances? Oh, no, I would say that. No, I learned from other people, and I try to add things I can do myself. But I went to a lot of nightclubs around at the time. You don't see many of them now. There were a lot of Greek Italian Lebanese turkeys nightclubs because I was really interested in exotic dancing, and I was interested in strip tease dancing, which I did that I was the first stripper in New Zealand when Ray and Hasty and Happy Road opened up the 1st 30 years ago and [00:10:30] you laugh those days because people used to pack the houses, and on top of that, it was only those days. It was only six shillings to go in. I tell you, it's a bit more now, but, um, they were great days because a lot of the boys who were having parties and a lot of the footballers used to say who's already seen me trip was at the finale. I had to take my wig and brow off. They didn't know that I was a guy. They used to think that I was, you know, a female those days. But at the finale, when we all had to line up and has to say, Well, our last guest [00:11:00] here, I'm sorry, guys, it's not what you think it is. And I had to walk out and I had to pull the wig off and the bride and they used to all get a fright because before my act, I used to go around so sort of feeling the guys I've been kissing them, you see and they used to they fright or or faint or go out because I couldn't believe that that that I was a drag, you know? I mean, a woman. So they were interesting. They were fun days. I remember visiting the balcony years ago [00:11:30] And there, there you, you you ran the show. I mean, it is I had the coffee bar and the balcony and and And I was lucky, too, because I worked at the, um, Law Courts Hotel in Dunedin. When the queen came out, I was there in the early fifties. I was, uh, a steward on the door. I was 19, I think at the time. And I put my age up to 21 got away with it because it was 21 those days in the fifties [00:12:00] and, uh, I went to work for the Government Tourist Hotel, which was Lake Tiana, Milford South Hotel and Wait Caves Hotel. And I came to Sydney and worked for Doyle's restaurant, which is always famous. Doyle's fish restaurant and I worked at the Chevron Hilton Hotel, and that's where I got the experience. And I thought, right, I'm gonna take it back to New Zealand with me, open up my own coffee bar and nightclub. They told me today I think I don't know whether I'm right or wrong that my strip to his club today is the new police [00:12:30] station. So I'm not too sure. So it's funny. One minute they're arresting me. And next minute they're taking over. I always thought they were strange. Yes, I ran my own cup, and it was absolutely great because I introduced strip teas dancing with a difference. I had, uh, girls stripping and were actually, uh, as men come out dressed as men and then they were really women so that the audience were fascinated. And then I had male strippers. Uh, and then I had female [00:13:00] impersonators. I had transvestites, drag queens and real girls. So I had a whole variety of 10 or 12, uh, different attitudes to please everybody. And I tried to have a variety, not only strip teas dancing, I had contortions, belly dancing, uh, graves and coffins and graveyards and, uh, um, apes and my old variety, you know, to suit everybody. Because that's what I like to please everyone. Because I thought that everyone mightn't [00:13:30] like the same thing. Give them a variety every time. And we used to get something like three and 400 people in you know a night. So it was. I loved it. It's a big responsibility. I mean, running a business like that. It was, as I said, with all that experience I had working in hotels and learning management work and and steward and waiters work also. You had to be either a nurse or a doctor and you had to be understanding. And you had to be everything. Really. You know, because a lot of the strippers all had their worries [00:14:00] and all their problems do, and one or two had been in and out of jail. But I always like I always used to try and treat them fair and made them relax and give them a cup of tea and say to them the next day and come and see me and we'll talk it over. And And after that, it seemed to be OK again. They seem to be all right again. I had to be like a mother to them. What happened when you had trouble among the audience? How to deal with that? Well, you did, But we we we we had a very wonderful announcer. Her [00:14:30] name was Rosa, who used to announce at the balcony night because she was a great entertainer. And she would say to the people nicely in the audience, Would they please either take with the guys? Because it was really the guys, were they? Please? The dad was the guy to get up on the stage and or either drunk. And you've got to expect that, too. You know, you don't really want to, but you got to. We can say to them, Will they please sit down? Or we have to ask them to leave, give their money back and leave. Why should they have to support it for all the other 200 there or something like that? We [00:15:00] work something out. You know, some people in Sydney, they throw them out. But we didn't. You know, I wasn't that hard. Um uh, Did you did the people who who came to work work there? Did they just come come and knock on the door or did you go out looking for them? I didn't go out looking for them in other clubs simply because I thought that you don't do that. It's like taking someone's business from someone else. I didn't believe in doing that, but if they came to me and they were already from other strip clubs that made it easy. [00:15:30] But I, I, um a lot of them did come and ask me a lot of them said, Look, I, I haven't done it before, but as long as they were over 21 in those days, I would take them if they were teenagers. I wasn't interested but there because that was the law there. And you know, you have to be 21 now. Today it's 18 or 16. But in those days, if you're 21 neighbour, I think she's a lady or he's a guy. He's old enough to speak for himself and I'll take them in and we always and then we we'll have a good look at them. But I used to go for figure and I used to go for a lovely [00:16:00] face, but it didn't really matter. I think it sometimes when they can put it across. They didn't have to have the looks that they can put the act across, Why not? And we helped them with a lot of needed help, like, you know, girls I want to do. I'm interested in the stripping a strip dancer and she couldn't do the strip back. What we do is we teach her. We dress her up with a lovely hair, do lovely makeup, put some lovely jewellery and lovely strip tease clothes or exotic clothes on her and and give her music and give her an exotic name. Her [00:16:30] her name may be, um, Shirley or Joan, but we say once you're on stage, you might be autumn leaves or or whatever. You know, whatever. We want to give them an exotic name, whatever they want to or Matahari whatever, whatever. Um, now what's the relationship between, uh, workers in the strip club and the sex they mean amongst the staff and all that? Well, I had girls working for me [00:17:00] that were lesbians and one would, uh, maybe be a cashier. And the other one's a stripper, you see, and I and I didn't mind the lesbians actually working for me because I had a lot of problems with the I didn't. I had a lot of problems, but I did have one or two problems with the with the real girls and their boyfriends, you see, So I used to say, Look, leave your problems at home. Don't bring them to work. You'll have to sort that out in the club. But don't bring it here. We're here [00:17:30] to entertain our audience. I get things like that. But then we We did meet a lot of my dancers that are very beautiful and very striking. I hope to do a story on them one day and they were absolutely beautiful. Maori, uh, Asians, Africans, a Polynesian Italian and plus New Zealanders and a lot of Australians come and go and work for me in there. And I look at all their photographs and some of them amaze me Now Today they all do straight jobs [00:18:00] in an office. One is still a police sergeant. Yes, and she's still in the police force. And I see her once in a while when I see her about once a year and she's still in the police force. She's been in about seven years and then and a lot of my girls joined the Christian Church and another lot became very and joined other churches. And I say and I say good luck to them too, you know, I, I expect they're gonna and I didn't realise, too. A lot of them work in government [00:18:30] jobs for lawyers, doctors, and I didn't realise how bright they were. I mean, I'm not bright, but I didn't realise they were quite intelligent. You know, I. I didn't meet them as dancers, and that's all I knew. But when they told me they were working in a government job or or working in an office for a doctor or a lawyer or a company director or someone, I thought, My God, I didn't realise he was a bright lady, not only as a beautiful and an exotic dancer, but she's intelligent, too, which was absolutely great. And then we had I had gay guys work for me who were homosexual [00:19:00] or why the transvestites who didn't know what they were. But it didn't really matter anyway, and, uh, I class myself as a transsexual. To me, a transvestite is a guy who hops into women's clothes, and he's not too sure what he wants to be. And then he changes back into me, and I'm a transsexual because I've lived nearly for 30 years as a woman. I've had my bus down operated on, but not not between my legs. So that's what I call a transsexual. And then I also had the [00:19:30] changes were for me, too. And they were absolutely great. Beautiful ladies, also, because your book is is strange. It stops just before the operation and we don't know whether you have a full no IIIII. I have not had a full sex change. I've only had my bus down. And I had my That was, uh, in 1973 I had by by Doctor Chong and uh oh, I forget the name of the other doctor and [00:20:00] I had my bus done. Actually, I've had two or three times done since I've been over here and, um but I have not had the sex change, And what happened is that I always and I used to be a kleptomaniac as a child. I gave that up when I got told off by the police when I was 14 and I became an lympho maniac. You see, I'm an ino maniac now I'm I've always I I love I love my sex. And when I heard about these girls who have had their sex changes, some of them have been [00:20:30] so sad and very disappointed. Some of them love it and they enjoy it. Some of them have got no feelings, and some of them are blocked up. A lot of girls that I've met in New Zealand, Australia and still having um, plastic surgeries. A lot of them who had their sex changes 20 years ago are going backwards and forwards spending hundreds and thousands of dollars of having the blocked up over reopened again. It closes again. It's been thousands, and I've got a girlfriend called Tony, who had her sex change [00:21:00] in Egypt. She's just gone back into hospital here, and she's blocked up. And, uh, and in those days I think it cost $1000. It cost $200 for my bus done. I think it cost about $800 in the late sixties or early seventies to have your sex change. Today, it's anything from 12 to 20,000 to have your to have your sex change. And that's why I never had my sex change when I've heard [00:21:30] about all these other sex changes, I like feelings and I like my sex, I personally I I enjoy and I. I like the younger men when I say younger men 25 to 35. And I like rugged men, the football athletic type, and they must be well hung. Well, I'm not interested. I'm not interested in Polynesian or Maori men and Japanese men. I can't find it. I go, Where [00:22:00] is it? And it's so tiny Lost amongst the bushes. I said, darling, I'll see you in 10 years. Yeah, I find that the Polynesian and Japanese or Asians there so little. But, boy, they make a lot of Children. I tell you, God must have had one bang one shoot. What gave you the idea? Can you describe why you felt? I think it goes back a very long time ago. I was brought [00:22:30] up in. I was brought up on a farm in the bush and because in those days you got to look at it this way. They had the most beautiful Hollywood movies, you know, Famous stars like May West. Um, Greta Garbo, Gloria Swanson, Lana Turner and all these other beautiful famous stars were coming on the scene like Sophia Laurie and Elizabeth Taylor. Um, and all these other wonderful ladies were coming. And what made it go back a long time ago. [00:23:00] Um, I was madly in love with three beautiful women. They're dead now. And the first lady I fell in love with, she was a secret agent and she was a spy. Her name was Mata Hari, and I saw her on the black and white of our screens, and this beautiful lady came out all dressed in black lace and fell all over her face. I was about eight or nine at the time, and I think it was a documentary of her life. And I was fascinated. And I thought, My God, this is in the in the 19 [00:23:30] middle of the 19 forties, I thought, Who's this beautiful lady? And they said it was who was who slept, you know, sort of with the enemy to find out what was going on during the war time. And she was from Holland, and, uh, she, uh, became a trait and worked in the greenhouse in Berlin, in Germany. And, uh, she, um um was an exotic dancer and she was a spy. And another lady that I fell [00:24:00] in love with also was, uh she was unusual too. Was, um yeah, Matahari and, um a salami. The seven veils, Yeah, Salomi the seven veils. And she was a lovely She was another fascinating lady before I talk about salami, That's right. When Martha Harry died, she went to Paris and see, that's where she got caught out. The prince caught her [00:24:30] out that she was a spy and when she was executed, and then I fell in love with Marta Harry. She was another unusual lady and she was known as Sorry Salomi Salome. I'm getting all mixed up now. And salomi uh, she was another unusual lady and she was known as the lady with the dance of the Seven Veils. That's how I got my act together here in Sydney. I copied them and she was so for seven And what I liked about her she wanted John the Baptist's head to be [00:25:00] cut off and delivered on the platter or plate. That's what made it so unusual again, I thought, Oh, this is great. Unusual me unusual ladies. And the third lady I fell in love with was Cobra Woman, which was Maria Montez in the movie Cobra Woman with the snakes. And I put all that act together. Marta Harry the spy with the veil over the face Solo Me with the Seven Veils and Maria Montez with the the Snakes. That's how I got my act together and that's where it came from. And, [00:25:30] um, also as you were saying, How did this all happened when I was 18, I think I was 18 in I was working on the Tolls department in the post office, learning the toll work and telegrams and the newspaper Big Front page came on about American G. I soldier called George Jokinen had his sex change to women. It was a big splash and, uh, the first sex change. And I thought, My [00:26:00] God, there is people like me around and that's what fascinated me And when my and you see on the farm where I came from, uh, it was a lot of men. A lot of boys and I used to dress up in my mother's clothes or grandmother's clothes, and they weren't there, you know, out, out, shopping or visiting. And because there were so many boys in the family, I think my mother looked at me. I was from a family of 13, 3 girls and 10 boys and I think my mother and grandmother looked at me and said, Well, that one there, which is me to [00:26:30] help with the housework, the cooking, the cleaning and the shopping, which I did. So I think that's how it all started. So I say thank you to grandmother and mother and all these famous ladies during the war time. Um, it in in when I think of our If I was to be a woman, there would be I could think of two reasons one would be that you actually want to feel Oh, you definitely feel you definitely feel like I. I speak for myself. I [00:27:00] was always fascinated even at home. I used to watch my mother and my aunties get dressed and the finishing thing. This is during the war time in the early forties, what fascinated me, And my mother used to put on these lovely turbans and picture hats or hats. And the last bit I used to love my mother putting on when she used to wear these picture hats, she put the veil over her face and that, to me, looked mystic and mysterious. You know what I mean? I thought how beautiful I used to love that finishing touch. She put the veil over her face. It was very fashion. [00:27:30] It was very horticulture those days, you know, like, um, a horticulture I should say sorry. And, uh, yes. And the women dressed up with the gloves, the handbags and the lovely hanky chip and the lovely flower and the lovely spray of something and and all those beautiful picture hats. And I just bought me a couple of picture hats the other day from David Jones. They were $400 each, but I always wanted picture hats, so I thought I was gonna wear them one day, one day to New Zealand or to the Australian races one [00:28:00] day. It's a very, very, very big, huge hats. They have bales over them and flowers, and you dress very elegant when you go out to a nice dinner or to a racist, the big picture hats, elegant hats, we have a, um the the other thing, the other reason, maybe to to to to address this all easily. Is that it? Um, maybe it's easier to seduce men because, [00:28:30] uh, men related to men. Many men find that difficult because they have an idea that it's they shouldn't do it. Are you? Are you? Are you referring? If they know you're a transaction or or are you a drag? Are you referring like that? Yes. Well, I I first when I when I was in, I used to work on the streets, also dressed up as a guy during the strip class. When I was a stripper in Auckland, I used to sneak down to Grey Avenue. There was the beat then for the [00:29:00] prostitutes. And, uh, I used to go down there and do the beat and pick up men. But some of them didn't know and some didn't know because they saw me at the strip club and got a fright. And but But, as you can say, some of them were, a lot of men were like that They they couldn't see. But today you wouldn't believe it. Today they are fascinated that all the all the the drag queen or the transsexual parlours here The men are so fascinated along [00:29:30] the streets they pick up drag queens, transvestites or transsexual. They're fascinated today. But those days I can see the point that you're going to be with with this woman, But really, it's a man. I couldn't do it. I can understand that. But today it's No, I mean that that that they were men that were interested in men. I mean, maybe they were gay, but they they couldn't bring themselves to do it. But they they could do it with, uh um a man who was pretending [00:30:00] to be a woman is you think that sometimes the case or used to be the case could have been, um it's such a mix of variety today. I I'm not a Tootsie Trade, uh, person, a Tutsi, a Tutsi trade person is a person who goes to bed with another gay or another queer or another camp. That's what Tutsi trade we say in those days. And that's not me. I've never been. I have been to bed with another gay [00:30:30] guy or another gay girl. But I I didn't know because they they look pretty good and pretty straight. And, uh, but I, I might have done it either. As a business like when we meet me and going Look, I want we meet a lot of men today and they go look, I want to go to bed with a trans trans best side, a drag queen, a straight girl and a straight guy or a gay guy. And we do that too. But, um, I I've always I don't I'm not a trade. I've never I'm not really interested in going to bed with gay people, lesbians [00:31:00] or pros or anything like that. Unless it's a business matter in the parlour I. I like straight heterosexual men. I. I would have loved to have been around during the Romans and Hercules and seas. They were all those tough, rugged men just picked you up and threw you around. I felt as though I had a man you weren't allowed to say no. But today, sometimes you got to be careful of you pick up. But sometimes it's them that roll over. What a real man. [00:31:30] Well, um oh, that's interesting. So what about, um, there must be many times when you when When you you have you would like to have sex for pleasure. And many times when it's business, right, Does it get mixed up? It does. Sometimes it does get mixed up. But what happens is, uh, we we we work it out the nights. We work to say, Um, I'm going to work It's all business. But if I do meet a very nice [00:32:00] guy and I think he's absolutely gorgeous, I think Oh, this is rather nice. I may take him home for pleasure. But then, on the other hand, I can get disappointed because when I get home, I finally he's only got a little one. So that's so disappointing. I thought, I can't have everything you know, But sometimes my hand might slip by accidentally, you know, before I bring them home, you know, to see if he's big or small. And I think Oh, yes, I didn't come over. He doesn't know Well, if I still like him that [00:32:30] I might take him to the party. I think what? He is gorgeous. Well, I'll take him down to the parley. What he has to do, he has to pay the $20 for the use of the room. And then and then I get him. I explain it to him, you know, on the street or where where, where we meet these guys in lovely restaurants, nights or clubs, clubs? I'm not ashamed either of of my past. I've enjoyed it, and I think the most important thing in life is to be honest. And I think that's why my brothers and sisters and families and relations and friends have always said, Well, at least you know, they they know what I was [00:33:00] like in And I think they learn to us in my lifetime. But and that's what I believe in. I believe in that. It's as long as you're honest and and and and and and to be honest in your life and uh, that's me, II. I don't care about anybody. They don't pay my rent. And I and I think a lot of people who are gay or homosexual or lesbians who are prostitutes their family doesn't know and they're very frightened, very scared. I saw a documentary [00:33:30] on Lou Prime recently, and I thought that was very, very sad because he tried to keep it a secret. But I explain it to my older brothers and sisters many years ago that I wasn't interested in women. I liked my kind and they learned to accept it, and I was very pleased. That was over 20 years ago, and I think that the biggest problem is men who can't accept it in themselves, their family. We're very lucky, actually. I found amongst the Polynesian [00:34:00] people I. I don't know about other races, but we we we've been pretty. They're pretty accepted. But I found, like, races or white races. I've heard some of the most saddest stories. I've heard stories where mothers and fathers in Australia or New Zealand don't want to know you, uh, they want to cut you off from the world, silly things like that, or you're not gonna get anything from the family fortune. And I couldn't be bothered with things like that, you know? And and But we've also, [00:34:30] uh, in Australia, here in Sydney, both Maori and Pakeha. People who have died of AIDS and the parents in New Zealand don't want to know anything about them. I wouldn't say all some have been accepted in New Zealand and very nice. Uh, but I have found that a lot of them have heard about their sons or daughters over here got AIDS or dying or this and that. They're not interested. So what I do and some of my close friends do we put on a floor show. We bring up a nightclub and say, Look, [00:35:00] they might be closed at night, you know, they might be their night office, and we put the show on on their night off and say, Look, can we use your night club the night you're off and you have the bar money and, uh, we have the door money and can we Do you mind if we do that? Because a friend of ours has died. He's frequent your nightclub for many years, and that's why we put your club. And could we have a benefit night? And sometimes we might raise 1000 or $2000. And what we do [00:35:30] is, uh, they have a a cemetery here. I think it's in Rockland Cemetery here. I think it is for New Zealanders. So what we do is, uh, we put on a benefit show, and with the money, we give them a nice send off. You know, we give them a church service and the undertakers there and, uh, nice flowers and all our friends all get together and and some of them don't even know them. But they come along because they're New Zealanders, and I think how lovely. And we have a nice service [00:36:00] and a cup of tea or a snack later, A nice chat for a couple of hours and let them rest in peace. We couldn't let them be going into Paus graves. There are some people who have had Paus graves that we didn't know of. But since I've come on the scene and people like and Micky and we and a lot of our close Maori friends who live here, we've all got together and even a lot of other Maori groups have all got together and and and not only I don't mean so much [00:36:30] our camp and gay society of New Zealanders, but also a lot of straight Maori people here and straight New Zealanders live here. They have been so wonderful, they've put in a or a donation also. So that's really nice that we can still have that Maori or New Zealand loving in us also here and we all help one another. So it's great, and those who die we make sure they have a nice burial service because, you know, we couldn't just see them going to a forus grave. [00:37:00] Now, how about, uh what are your preferences in sex? I try. Many years ago, I liked anything. I'd be very honest, but, you know, I've been in this. Oh, God. 40 years. You know, having, uh I would say that I prefer French oral sex. I try not to have intercourse with the guys. I try not to, which is an you know, [00:37:30] or and I don't even have me masturbate. Me. I just prefer oral, but I'm not. Why? I don't want to take, uh, anal sex because a lot of people don't see as we see as nightclub entertainers and street people. We see a lot of things that we've met. A lot of guys who've had eight or six suffering with AIDS and are very, very sad. And that's why I get a bit worried, a bit scared. And if it is, if I do, maybe a once, maybe once [00:38:00] every three or six months. If I did, and I have to be definitely with two condoms, just in case it might break. But I'm very good with I try and remove the condom myself from the guy if I go with because I like to make sure it hasn't broke you know, I mean, many years ago, we didn't care, But it's, you know, in the last I suppose, 10 or 12 years, we have to be very, very careful when the AIDS start coming out before we're very careless. But now we really have to be very, very careful [00:38:30] about, uh, our health because we go to hospitals and we go and visit the aid patients, mostly the New Zealanders that we know and, uh, just give them a bit of love and a bit of comfort before they they go somewhere else, hoping God will look after them, um, to come back I i before I was wondering for for almost all the dances with with most of them [00:39:00] I think there has been There are a lot of girls who dance like Take, for instance, We're talking about gay bar. Say, for instance, lay girls. Well, the very beautiful and famous Carlotta has been the very famous dance to live of of lay girls. She has all female impersonators work. There's a full drag show, and she does not allow or have or have any of her girls work on the streets. It's either on the stage and in lay girls nightclub [00:39:30] and entertaining. And that's it. If you become a prostitute or a street girl, you must leave And, uh, a lot of girls. So in other clubs all around, the gay bars or hotels or restaurants have also worked in different clubs, and bars were dancers. And then they're out of jobs and the And then they decided to become hookers or parlour girls or street girls. And, um and then it's just because of the money. I mean, [00:40:00] wages today is $200 a week or 300. Whatever. You're gonna get a week. It's for many, many years ago, since I've had a straight I think I think I can't even remember. 15 years ago I had a job. But you see that you get two or $300 a week. The prostitutes get that in a night. You see what I mean. But that is why the money, it's the money, and, uh, people can call me whatever they like. They said, Oh, we've seen Carmen and she's this and she's there, but it doesn't worry me I. I get [00:40:30] hurt and upset when they stop talking. That's when they get hurt and upset. Stop talking about me. But it doesn't really worry me because I always say be honest in your life. And and And the beautiful thing is, I can buy beautiful clothes, beautiful jewellery and and and have a nice apartment. I can travel here and there, but if you have a straight job, you're all the time paying bills and debts. But when you've got this kind of job, well, at least it's a nice feeling that you can get up in the morning, wake up good and say, Oh, I can go [00:41:00] out to a lovely hotel or a lovely restaurant, have a lovely dinner or buy me something nice from the guy has left you, you know, the night before, whatever you see. But, um, yesterday you before you you mentioned that there has been men in your life that that had wanted you to fall in love with you. I really spoiled. And I think this is where the name Carmen from these suits me. I have really supported. Um, before I got into drag [00:41:30] dressing up as a woman, I had some Very, uh I was a male whore in in Auckland I was put on to the I met a guy called Charles, who was from Chelsea London, and he met me. And he was an English guy who worked for Milton Choice. Smith and Curry doing all material jobs and his sideline was also picking up young men, and I didn't know. 20 years later he's, I think, dead and gone out back to London. But he he was madly in love with coloured men. [00:42:00] I didn't know this till years later we found out and because they were not only it wasn't only me, there was other three other to guys who were male prostitutes. With me, there was a couple of Maori guys also, but, uh, they dropped out. They either got married or became drunk, So I remember they like their beer or their liquor. And I continued on I I liked all the nice things and, uh so I love the lovely hotels and the chauffeured cars and the lovely clothes and jewellery and travelling. [00:42:30] So I liked all the nothing but the beers. They didn't they weren't really interested. So I thought, Well, fair enough. And but there was a lot of men who really loved me. But as soon as I changed over and became drag, they weren't interested. Which I can understand that I had a lot of businessmen from Auckland. But when I got into drag, then I met lots of wonderful men, too, who wanted me to go and live with them and have nothing but the best. But I support it. I said no, I was I guess I was mean. And I was selfish because I just thought I was gonna stay [00:43:00] beautiful forever and all that. But now I can forget about it. Now. I'm nearly 60. I can forget about it now, So I'd love to have all those wealthy men back if they're still around. But you must have been tempted. There must have been some special relationships that you thought maybe you would stick with it. I. I had a I had when I was in Wellington when I was in the coffee bar and, uh, had the drag nightclubs and all that and the coffee shop. I met some beautiful men, but the saddest [00:43:30] thing was they were married. You see, they were married men, you see, and they work for the government too. and, uh, I had oh, must be half a dozen gorgeous men. They were all married in Wellington, and they are high up in the government today, but, uh, I never mentioned them in my book. I thought that it was sort of a dark secret. I kept aside, but they were They were absolutely lovely and even here, but, um one. Then I might meet somebody [00:44:00] wealthy. I hope so. I'm thinking about security today. I know. Now, here's Here's something. What? What? Uh, what are the special skills of seduction? How if you see somebody, you mean the juice? Well, it all depends where it is. If he's walking down the street, I just say to them, I just say, you know, Good evening. Hello. How are you? You know, uh, could I help you [00:44:30] at all? And then they will quote the prices and whatever, and, uh, they have all different fees. The girls may charge them $50 for the half an hour of their entertainment, which is friend and or And that's not really the price. All the prices. Some are dearer again. I think it all depends who you are. Some are dearer But, uh, it starts off at 50 $10 for the room, and but But if it's sex, it's a bit [00:45:00] more. It may be 80 or 90 for six, but for our it's like for hours. What I really meant was, when when you really fancy somebody If you If you If it's your night off and I think you're going to have you're going to have something for pleasure, how do you Oh, you mean personally me? Oh, right. Oh, sorry. Um, what I usually do is, uh, I usually just say, if it's in my flat, if it's in my flat and [00:45:30] outside, all right, your place or mine? Your place of mine. III I sort of I I try like to sum it up. If I think he's rather nice and rather gorgeous, I'll take him home. But I think no, half an hour or an hour. Maybe with him, I'll go to his place. It's easy to leave. It's easy to get away, [00:46:00] but if he's really nice, I would take him home and we'll have a drink or something, and I sit him down. I believe in warmth. So you put the heater on if it's cold, I believe in soft lighting and very soft romantic music. And I said to him, What would you like to drink my beer? A French champagne? I don't know what he would like or or a wine or something like that. Or or maybe a tea or coffee, whatever. Some don't even drink. It all depends. And then, while [00:46:30] he's having that drink and that drink, I go to the bed and get it ready. And I might play a very sexy tape. Yeah, I might be in in the lounge and I said to him, Do you watch videos? And he says, Yes. And I said, What's your favourite, Mick? You might go heterosexual or gay or camp or lesbian or transsexual. So then I go back to the room again while he's having his champagne. And I used to have half a dozen out. I'll just grab I. I like watching the nice couples, [00:47:00] you know, I'm a heterosexual person and sorry. Yeah, should be all right. The and, uh then may give him a little massage or something like that. We might have a shower together or something like that, and kiss and cuddle, and I give him a few rub overs or whatever. [00:47:30] And I think for plays are wonderful. First, the foreplay not just Wham bam. Goodbye, man. I think that the foreplay is great. You know, the sex and shooting the sperm and all that, unless he wants to. Three or four times I find that the the most sexiest men out and and and and a good sex are the Italians and the Greeks and maybe the Germans. They they can rise something like 345 [00:48:00] times a night. Especially the Italians, the young Italians and the Greeks or the Lebanese, But, uh, and some New Zealand and Australian too. But, um uh, it all depends and just have a romantic night of cuddling and kissing and all that I. I prefer kissing and all that, but it's it it must be, um you you must get so many different kinds of me, I think, especially if it's somebody that you've chosen. [00:48:30] Not only that, too. We we we're like analyst people or psychic people. We can psych them up, but because of my age, it is so amazing. Two things about me that the guy is fascinated with either my voice or he's either fascinated with my bust or because I'm an older. Maybe he might think I'm sexy, voluptuous or vivacious, And, uh, he's fascinated and and then he'd, um it's [00:49:00] a young man. It's amazing when I say young man 25 or 30 they They said they've always wanted to go with an older woman And sometimes it can be frightening because I've had a lot of these young men and they keep still knocking on my door every week. I don't mind once in a while, but I'm not as young as I used to be. But then they're all fit, young and frisky and oh my God. So I I had a love affair. I've just finished with with a Greek guy. He was 22 And look, he had a cock like [00:49:30] a donkey. A Penis like a donkey, I thought, What are you gonna do with that? I was amazed. I said, You're not gonna hit me with that. I it was so big, and then I, I actually I didn't tell him what I was He didn't know and I wasn't going to tell him either, But he was very pushy, very solid and very strong. But after we had a good time and then he found out what I was and I said to him, That's why I said to him that I didn't want to have sex with you because I said I didn't want to tell you what I was. I was embarrassed, but I didn't want to lose him at the same time because I thought he was so good [00:50:00] and so handsome. And I wanted to entertain him, even if it was for drinks or coffee or whatever. I thought once he found out he's gone. I've lost them forever. But I thought I can just happen just for that hour, just entertaining. But then when he found out, he got all embarrassed and he went. But that was something that had happened to me recently. He didn't come back. Well, not so far. I hope he does. Um, I, um I'm going to call him, you see, because I'm psychic. I hope I throw this telepathy out to him. [00:50:30] My grandparents were telepathy people, but they were healers. But I'm a healer too, but in a different way. They cured. I loved that. heal them now, I've had some beautiful men in my time. Lots of single lots of married men in New Zealand all have in New Zealand and Australia. And I've and I've had a beautiful life. And, uh, as I said, it's nice to be honest, and, uh, people love you for [00:51:00] it. I went home to open up a club called in Wellington, and I hadn't seen any of my, uh, friends who came to see me or my coffee bar for 10 years. And when I went back to open up this nightclub, um, you wouldn't believe it. There was supposed to be, I think, 300 to come and see me at this nightclub and 800 come. So wasn't that lovely? They didn't forget me. Ok, um, have [00:51:30] have you had times that have been, uh, um when you when you maybe picked up somebody that you you particularly fancy that that it it turned out that they became dangerous. Oh, yes, I When I came back to Sidney, I picked up a guy and I went in the car with him, which I thought was only for a drive, and he pulled up in some trees and boundary roads. This is behind the Saint Vincent's Hospital. That was my first experience when I came back to Sydney and, uh, I had to give him oral [00:52:00] sex. And not only that, he pulled out a revolver and I thought, Well, here goes, But I've gone. So I had to give him oral sex. And then he, um Luckily, another two cars came to the squash court grounds because the gate was open and I got saved. I jumped out of the car and said, Bye. Thanks for everything. See you later. So he couldn't do anything because all those two cars there are people [00:52:30] and he just drove off. I took his car number and I reported him to the police. The police were wonderful about it. The Kings cross police were absolutely wonderful about it, and they checked him out and they said, Yes, he's just flown back to Canada. He was He was a security guy working here, and so I was lucky there. Another time, I picked up an American sailor. I was working in Kings Cross in the Parlour. I think he gave me $60 for the half hour and [00:53:00] then he tried to strangle me, And it was only through a bit of luck that one of the people, one of the, uh, the the the Bouncers in In the Parlour was walking by heard and kicked the door open and threw him down the stairs. And then the, um I must be a cat with nine lives. Another time, I was in the car again on target for punishment, and a guy was driving me home. But we end up in an out behind an art gallery, [00:53:30] and he tried to throttle and and attack me one night and wanted to rape me. He didn't know what I was. And luckily, there was three pommy seamen. They were cutting through the back of the art galleries down to their boat and hurt me and came to the rescue. And the guy went off lucky again. Yeah, I've had some bad incidents, and you've got to expect it too, because those guys, they know what we are. And I can see on their side of it, too, that they know that they get a fright and find out what we are. And some didn't know and some do know. But I can see their point guys to say you're not [00:54:00] a transsexual or a training are you? Because we hate them. So that's understanding. Um, do you? Do you often tell people we play tricks? We do. We do. We do tell the guys and and and But if they're really gorgeous, you know, and beautiful, we try and play games with them and don't tell them, you know otherwise, we tell them we lose them, and I think, Well, that's too nice to was the name. We'll play it by ear. You know, we'll [00:54:30] see what happens, you know, and we get motivated very quickly before we lose them. And some we don't tell some. We do tell as I say, You're like an analyst or a psychic person. You can sort of sum them up. You know, I always call all the guys I go with in the parlour. I call them Guest. The other girls may call them idiots and bastards and mugs, but I don't like that word, because simply I think they pay my rent, my power, my phone bill, my gas and food and clothing and jewellery. Why should I have to call them mugs, but [00:55:00] that's what the girls call them. A lot of drug is around a lot of New Zealanders here on drugs, and some of them are dying and their family in New Zealand don't know some of them are even dead and gone. Their family think they're over here having a nice time and haven't heard. But some of them are dead and some of them got murdered and raped drug dealers. Some of them have been dumped, murdered because they've done New Zealanders over here have been done. Dirty drug deals with some of the Aussies here, or the or Lebanese or Greek or [00:55:30] Italians. You know, whoever they're dealing with, it could be any race and have been bumped off. I know quite a few people who have been bumped off, right, But you learn when you're in the cross. I've seen lots of things of people disappearing and murdered, raped, attacked. But you learn when you live in the cross like the three eyes monkeys in It's a big sea and hear no evil. You didn't see anything. Otherwise I'll be after you. [00:56:00] Wow, What a strange life. Um, now you you you mentioned that you would that you think that the foreplay is important? Um are occasions when you actually like to spend time afterwards as well? Or it really It's, um I think it all depends on the guy. You know, if he wants to stay, you know? But I'm very funny, II. I like them to go by the daylight. [00:56:30] You know what I mean? But some because I get so many visitors and I I don't want to be caught unaware. Not that it really matters, you know. But, uh uh I think it all depends who you're with. If they're really nice. Sometimes I don't answer my phone or my doorbell when they ring and they go No, he he's mine today or tonight. So they might say your phones ringing your daughter. I know you're my guest today. You're staying or something like it all depends who they are, [00:57:00] and and you would normally negotiate beforehand with it. Just for half an hour or not. Not not If not, if it's your guest for the evening for non payment. You know what I mean? If it's just no, otherwise, if you say only half an hour or an hour, it sounds like business, doesn't it? And I think if it's just for enjoyment or a love affair, you'd like to. Well, then you just say you didn't mention that at all. Otherwise, I get a bit embarrassed, I think. [00:57:30] No, I just been saying that you're my guest tonight, and but some of them just say, Well, look, some guys I do meet in the street, they say, Well, I have to tell you something. I don't have any money on me. I said no. Be my guest tonight and then you know where you stay and you can relax better. You know, what's the longest affair that you had? Um, well, I've never had many guys live with me because I've been, uh I guess a selfish person. As I said, I like to have my free, But guys, [00:58:00] I've had guys come and see me for something like like I've had guys coming to see me here for six and seven years since every week. It's amazing, you know, at my age. But I think they like the experience or they like that. Motherly, the motherly. No. It's a lovely feeling that a lot of guys from New Zealand from Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin. Wherever they come over here and they ask people to come, I'm still here. [00:58:30] Where can we find her? Take her for dinner for a coffee and I think, How lovely and one lady, I was so amazed, she said. I came to your co. I saw this lady couple and she said We came to your coffee bar in 1967 she said. And we always remembered you for, uh, your lovely toasted sandwiches. And I thought, My God, you know. And she only came once that I had lots of regulars come naturally, and I say thank you to all those beautiful people who came and went [00:59:00] from the coffee bar and the nightclub. I say thank you, but I thought just for that lady who came once, you know, you think I would have been there and done that and forget. But it's nice to remember a little something, you know? And I thought, How lovely. Yes, I. I miss New Zealand a little bit, but I like it here because it's more going and you can do your own thing, too. You know, that's what I like about King's cross, it doesn't matter. And if I always think, well, whatever I do, whether I'm a street person or a parlour person, whether I'm gay camp or queer or a prostitute or homosexual or lesbian, [00:59:30] whatever people think I am, I like to think I'm doing it at least a little bit classy and in style. II I met a trans or some years ago. In fact, I think she had an operation. I mean, but But her dream was to to actually marry an old man and and be a house wife. Yes, that that that's happened, that's that has happened. But a lot of things I've learned here, too. I have met a lot of women [01:00:00] who who are a lot of mostly Australian uh, guys who who were, uh, transvestites. And then they became transsexuals. And they are in their sixties and seventies and had their sex change and don't want men. They just quite happy being the sex change. Then I met another lad who have had the sex change these, uh, transsexuals and fell in love with lesbians. Yeah, that's interesting to know, and they have a place here [01:00:30] called Teresa's house, where they look after these people, they've got another place called the Seahorse Club, which is another lot of people. They're guys who dress up, who love to dress up in women's clothes but are actually ma or got girlfriends and got Children at the Seahorse Club here. I personally, myself, I haven't been here, but they have one like that in New Zealand. Wellington. I don't know whether it still goes out of the hut somewhere. I don't know if it's still going, but they have one here. I must get down and have a look at it because, uh, it's nice to know Well, we know [01:01:00] what they get up to, what they do, and then they have the lesbian clubs here. And then, naturally, they got the hundreds and thousands of gay bars and night clubs in Oxford Street and the cross and out in the suburbs for all the gays and the camps and homosexual people. So it's good. It's a nice variety, and I just went to a sleaze ball the other night, a sleaze ball and my friends and I went and it was we had a night and we had 15,000 [01:01:30] came to the sleaze ball God. Not everyone was a sleaze that night. A lot of straight people came. That was a lot of guys. I think it was an excuse that all the guys got into drag became sleeves of wines or tarts or harlots. So uh, uh, my friend and I and many others, we all went along to it and had a wonderful night. It started at 10. They had a big floor show and it finished 10 o'clock the next morning. [01:02:00] And then after that they were all invited from after. After all the show, the hangover show they were all invited to Oxford Street to the bars there. So it was great. I I I'm a Dracula's daughter. As soon as it's daylight, I go. I go to sleep at five o'clock before the daylight. Ta ta! He's [01:02:30] gorgeous! I know. No, I didn't know him, but my girlfriend sent it to me when she was in Tahiti. That one there is very nice, too. I mean, as he's a good he was a gorgeous Greek, uh, policeman. But now he's a reporter, but he's with the police force. He's gorgeous. That guy over there, that's he's a new Zealand model from Auckland. And, uh, he's travelling around, too. And my friend Terry in New York, Um, what? What I need [01:03:00] to ask is get some details about the kind of music that you used. And, um uh, yes, all right. It this one. The other one was exotic, and the other one was Arthur Lyman. But this one, this is the one I played for you? Yeah. [01:03:30] This this one here. Also, I've kept this as memoirs. It was a very famous New Zealand lady. Her name was Roy Norton, and she was known as the Witch of Kings Cross. She's dead now, and this is her record, and I've always kept it. Did No, I didn't. Yeah, yes, yes, [01:04:00] that's exotic. Yeah, And it plays all exotic music. And the other one is Arthur Liman, who plays Taboo. But I haven't seen those two records around for a long time. That's the third one. The record is called Exotica. You don't know who it was. I think it was Yeah. Was the the music for the Yeah. I must try and locate that. [01:04:30] Oh, yes, but those are all the jazz Stella re, um Billie Holiday and I've got, um, Shirley Bay and Nina Simone and Grace Jones. And, um um, what about you? What did you use music? [01:05:00] Well, um, sometimes I used, uh, that that and, uh, and I used the same exotic music to that and the symbol. And sometimes we had a band, so they were good too. You know what I mean? We can play played exotic sounds, which is great, too. It all depends what club you're in. If there was no orchestras or no bands, then we have to use our music. [01:05:30] That's right. All depends. You know, it all depends. But as I said, I used taboo and and the exotic sounds of exotic app. I don't have that record. It's hard to come by. Do you have an ABC in New Zealand? No, no, no, no. It's here, isn't it? It's here for another cup of tea. And [01:06:00] yes. And you saw? I remember you said you saw Spanish dancing. This this lady here taught me Spanish dancing. When I came back, her name was Anita Ortega, and she taught me Spanish dancing. But she's put out of way and she's gone back to Spain. And, uh, but It was nice, you know? And you used it? No, up there for Spanish. And then that was for exotic belly dancers. [01:06:30] One I showed you in the little box here they were for the symbols. They're called symbols for the exotic dancing? Yes. And what sort of music do you like to relax to? I, like still songs like Net Kinko Or, um, maybe Frank Sinatra if he's singing Or Frank Sinatra? Uh, [01:07:00] I can't think of the falling leaves, the autumn leaves, you know of Neck King cold and just goes on. I don't really mind. Oh, I've got, um, another guy who I used to like. But you don't hear much of him anymore. He's a proud of you. I met Kamal in New Zealand, and he was there. I have not met him here. I. I don't [01:07:30] know what's, uh what's on there. So long ago. It's called old blue eyes. This one, Robert. He used to be famous of his time, you know, But Frank neck cold, and, uh, he grew himself moustache. [01:08:00] Who? They are not there. Yes, he came here. He was on the on the midday show. Yes. I, uh I like this academy and sometimes I like way out Weird music. They've got something on now called Enigma. Uh, I guess it's just come out. It's sort of a group A group, and it's mostly all I like. Unusual, weird, way out [01:08:30] music I like sometimes I like, uh, very creepy or weird, uh, music. Sometimes for relaxation. It all depends who they are. You know, there's a famous, uh uh, opera of this, Um, So, um, so is it, um and it's going to be done this year. Well, [01:09:00] the company I can send you the tape. It gets faster and faster and faster and faster. And that was a very unusual lady. Yeah, he and the She was very unusual. Did you use? Uh, no, I didn't. No, I didn't use [01:09:30] that. But isn't it? Yeah, I had some numbers from flow flow, but no, I didn't III I My Auntie Sarah Vaughan with whatever Lola wants. But no, not not Not so much to Simone. I love listening to her. I thought she was sort of unusual voice. Even de re had an unusual voice too. And Kitty Lester, did you ever only once I had that [01:10:00] live here for Max Choir Show. I sang the falling autumn leaves. When? When he was the town choir show. Yeah. Oh, no, It's getting to try. Not like that. Yes. And so you had a live live band? Oh, yes, that was That was practise. And in the afternoon? Yes. And I was quite pleased. I remember the words, you know, band of getting all ready and and all that. [01:10:30] Yes, yes, that's right. Yes, but like girls and all that, it's all mine, you know? Yes, All the drag shows here are mostly mine. But they do have one or two people who sing on their own, use their own voices and crack jokes and all like comedians. You know, there's one or two around. Yeah, I [01:11:00] found it. I found it here, too. And the cross has changed. It's not like the good old days and beauty and glamour and all the nice things and people you can trust today. It's all drugs and rehabilitation and a lot of street kids. That's what I feel sorry for. I thought I wish I had a big house for all these street kids because they're just sleeping anywhere. Nowhere to bath or wash, nowhere to eat. And there's wonderful people around here like Jesus Care, the Salvation Army, [01:11:30] ST Vincent's Hospital and Hala Krishna. They're wonderful people I say a prayer to because they give them free drinks, free meals and maybe a little money to get them on their way. So I think that's absolutely great and we have a We have a needle exchange here, which means that if you are a druggie, you can get clean needles so you don't get the gutter needles and everything like that, so it's great.
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