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Uh, well, I was born in Wanganui and moved to when I was four and grew up in in the far north. How long did you live in Kaita Till I left home at the age of 18. And what was some of your memories of living up in the far north? Um, far north is a beautiful place. I absolutely love it. I like going back to visit there. But by the time I left, I was ready to leave. And, um, it's an interesting place [00:00:30] because it's it's quite a depressed area socially, um, and a difficult place to kind of get ahead in life, I guess. And so I knew that in order to make a life for myself, I needed to get out of there and leave there. So I'm happy to go back and to visit and to, you know, go to the beaches and all the beautiful places because it is absolutely stunning up there. But, um, it's not a place that I, um that I want to live. Were you living rurally or in town? [00:01:00] In town, in itself, right on the edge of town. Though the house that we were in, um looked out across the paddock towards 90 mile beach. So it's sort of flat from our back fence. You could see all the way out to the sand dunes. Um, so you couldn't see the sea, But on quite nights, you could hear the surf from our place. And were you one of those kids that made the most of living by the beach or Yeah, absolutely. We spent heaps of time at the beach, and, um, my parents were into sailing, so we spent a lot [00:01:30] of time on the water as well. Um, and I had my mates. A lot of my mates were out in the country. And so a lot of, you know, horsey time and stuff like that. Horsey time time horse riding, motorbike, riding, mucking around on the farms. Yeah. So who's who's in Kaita now? In your family? Uh, just my mom. She lives in a just out of, um, yeah, up a long driveway miles from anywhere, and you get to go back and see her a bit. [00:02:00] I try to Yeah, yeah, but, um, it's easier for her to come down here to visit us with the kids and everything than for us to sort of trap everyone up there. Yeah. So how was school for you in terms of, um, yeah, just enjoying it. Having a lot of friends and, uh yeah, because is a small town and your schooling options are limited. Basically, I went to primary, and then I went to intermediate, and then I went to college, and your whole peer group moves with you, so you might get a few people [00:02:30] that come and go and sort of, um, drop in and out. But by and large, the group that you start at Kindy with is the group that you sort of follow all the way through your schooling. So, um, by the time we got to college, we had a pretty tight sort of group of friends and that that's that's sort of how it was. For I have. From what I could see for most people, you had your group of core group of sort of, you know, 8 to 10 people. Um and then there were different different groups within that. [00:03:00] Like, we had a really big third form year. There were about three or 400 of us. Um and so you just form your little clicks. And those were the group of friends that you then carried on? Yeah, through secondary school. And were you, um, an academic kid or a sporty kid? Sporty? Yes. Definitely sporty. Um, I ended up in the top stream class by accident, and for whatever reason, the teachers decided that they might as well keep me there and see how I did. My [00:03:30] name got mixed up with somebody else. And so in the first week in third form, yeah. So they brought They brought the other girl back into the class, but they left me there, and, I don't know, maybe they thought it would be really demoralising for me to be swapped back into them. So I was in a class that, um, was possibly slightly more academically. Um, yeah, higher than I was. But actually, what it did was it made me work harder. Um, and I'm I'm [00:04:00] actually really glad that I stayed in that class. And then there's some stuff that I just want to Yeah, um, but my school reports used to say things like, you know, Moana is easily distracted and, um could try harder and, you know, all of those sorts of things. And school was really just for socialising rather than working. And I somehow managed to get through seventh form and scrape through enough points in sixth form to get UE. But, um, I really was I did the bare minimum [00:04:30] to get through. And I don't I don't think it's necessarily because, um because I couldn't do it. I just wasn't interested in studying, So I was far more interested in playing sports and socialising with my mates. What sort of sports were you into Soccer, Mostly. Yeah, Yeah. Soccer. Um, what else did I do? Little waka for a bit, Um, and then just, uh you do lots of different things. And but, yeah, that soccer would have been my main [00:05:00] sport. I didn't play any summer sports. So when you left, where did you head? I went to Dunedin. Oh, actually, I went to Auckland for a year first. Um, when I left school, I knew that I wanted to join the police, but I didn't feel like I was ready to join. Um, I was old enough, but I just felt that I wasn't mature enough, And so I also wasn't sure that I would get in, and I felt that I needed a backup plan. So I went to [00:05:30] Auckland for a year and worked, um, first in a sandwich bar on High Street, which runs parallel to Queen Street, right in the CBD. And then I worked out in a screen printing company out in Mount Rosco. And, um was a screen printing hand and they tried to get me to, um, to take up an apprenticeship. But I knew that I didn't want to be screen printing for the rest of my life. So, um and that what that year enabled me to do is work out what I wanted to do as my backup plan. Uh, And [00:06:00] so at the end of that year, I quit my job, and I moved to Dunedin and did a physed degree. Yeah. And how was it moving from Kaita to the cities Auckland? I hated it was just too big. Too noisy, Too busy. I found it really hard to meet people and make friends. Um, I was flirting with my sister and all her cohorts, and so I sort of became friends with them, but they were always her friends And because I was working, [00:06:30] um, out, You know, out in Mount Rosco in a small screen company. Um, it's Yeah. It just wasn't It wasn't conducive to making friends and socialising. So in some ways, it was quite a lonely year because I didn't have my own peer group. Um, but moving to Dunedin, I loved it. Yeah. Yeah. Were you out? Uh, not until I moved to Dunedin. I came out to my parents, Um, [00:07:00] at the beginning of the first year down there, Yeah. Did that involve going back to, uh, my mother? I came out to over the phone. My father? Yeah, I actually I think it was Maybe it was the It was when I was living in Auckland at the end of that year that just before I went to Dunedin, came out to my mother over the phone and my father that summer, before I went to Dunedin, I came out to him. Yeah, and [00:07:30] what was their reaction? Um, my dad was really funny and and I came out to him in a really weird way. I had a T shirt that said, um, dyke, but it was written in the Nike style with the swoosh tick underneath it. And And I put it on and he was out the back crushing beer cans, and I put it on. I went out there and I said to him, Uh, I need to tell you something really personal about myself. And then I just [00:08:00] showed him the t-shirt and he just went, Oh, one of the guys at the squash clubs got one of them, and it says something else. I can't even remember what it was. And that was it. And that was That was the only thing that that was the only conversation we've ever had about it. And we've never talked about it since. I mean, I'm I'm out to him and and it's just, you know, it's just part of he's met all my girlfriend, most of my girlfriends. And, you know, there's never been an issue [00:08:30] or a question. And it was just this really weird, awkward moment that we've just, um yeah, OK, that's done. We don't need to talk about that anymore. So, um, has he always been supportive of you? Yeah, absolutely. My parents, um, my parents are both Quakers, or they were when I was growing up. My dad's Buddhist now, uh, and we were We were raised to sort of be open minded and that, and they were very open minded and just, [00:09:00] um You know, one of the the values of our family, I guess, is, uh, acceptance of all people and that there is good in all people. Um, and that you don't You don't judge people, um, you know, by their race, their religion or or whatever. Yeah, when you were growing up in, Did you know gay people? No. I think I was the only gay in the village. And, um, my girlfriend at the time as well, she was obviously gay as well. You had a girlfriend at high school? Yeah. Yeah. So, [00:09:30] um, we were really good friends. Best mates. Um, and we met in third form, so she'd come over from, um, one of the other schools, uh, and started at, um, college. And we kind of ended up as mates by default. Um, because I had a good friend and she had a good friend. But our two good friends got together and became good friends, and we were left without friends. Really bizarre. situation. Um, And anyway, we just [00:10:00] we just hit it off, and we were really good mates. And over the years, our friendship just got closer and closer and closer, and then it morphed into a relationship, Um, in our sixth form year. So when you moved to Auckland, did you keep the relationship going or yes. Yeah. And And she'd gone to Dunedin, And that was, I guess, one of my motivating factors to go to Dunedin. Um, so we had a long distance relationship that year that I was in Auckland. She [00:10:30] was in Dunedin. Um, but it didn't last once I got down there. Yeah. Did you stay friends? Yeah. We're still friends. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And your mom about you being out? Yeah, she's fantastic. I mean, she just did what mothers do, I guess. Which is, you know, so long as you're happy and, you know, it's not going to be easy for you and all. You know, I'll always support you, no matter what. That sort of stuff. She wrote me a really lovely letter that I've still got. Yeah, um, but, [00:11:00] uh, I was never concerned about how she might react or respond um it was my dad that I wasn't sure. You know, I had absolutely no idea what he would think or how he would react. What about other people, if you your siblings? Yeah. My sister. Um, yeah, she's never It's never been an issue for her. Yeah, they never had any idea before then, Uh, and [00:11:30] I think that's probably one of the reasons that it wasn't an issue, because I think they all knew, you know, because we spent every minute together outside of school and at school as well. Um, and so it wouldn't It wouldn't have surprised them at all. I don't think they knew as such. Um, but it was more that I was just confirming it for them. Yeah. So people at school weren't giving you heaps about it. They weren't seeing that you guys were together? No. Well, we didn't think [00:12:00] so, But then again, would people have, you know, questioned it or suspected it? I don't know. Um we thought we were pretty good at keeping it. Um, yeah, under the radar, whether we did or not. I don't know. I've never had any retrospective conversations with my peer group that I was at school. I. I mean, I kind of I still I do keep, um I'm still Facebook friends with a few people from that time, but we've all gone to different, you know, parts of [00:12:30] the country and and world as well. So we're not We don't sort of remain in close contact. So you went down to Dunedin and came out there. And you're doing a degree. Yeah. And tell us about some of the some of the things that happened for you in Dunedin. The was a great time. I loved it. So I spent four years down there, Um and yeah, I was, you know, I was a baby dyke, and I'd hang out in the woman's room at lunchtime [00:13:00] and, you know, go and reclaim the night marches and and all of that stuff, and I never I didn't go into halls of residence. I went straight into, um, a flat. And I was flatting with two other lesbians, um, and then met lots of people through their social circle. Um, and, you know, go to women's dances and, you know, gay and lesbian balls and stuff like that. I just I just totally immersed myself in it. [00:13:30] Um, because I hadn't been able to come out when I was, you know, living in small town, um, and didn't really have a peer group when I was in Auckland. So I just threw myself in a boots and all, you know, overalls and purple t-shirts. And although I never had a pair of docks, I never owned a pair of dock boots. Yeah, swap them for police boots. So that was the nineties? Yes. Yeah, that was, um I was in Dunedin [00:14:00] 94 through to 97 and after Dunedin. What happened? And I joined the police. So in the last year or so of my physed degree, I started the application process for the police, so I recruited in Dunedin. Um, and I was accepted into the police six months after I finished my physed degree. So I stayed in Dunedin while I was waiting for a place in the police. Um, and I guess I couch hopped around [00:14:30] my friend's places because I didn't know when I was going to get the call up, and I was literally waiting, just doing little odd jobs around the place. Um and then, yeah, when I got the call up and went to Came up to the police college in I packed everything up into boxes, brought them up with me, put it all in storage, and, um yeah, so I had to find somewhere to live once I graduated. Uh, but yeah, I, the recruiting officer, had said to me, You know, if you want if [00:15:00] you want to come back to the South Island, you might as well not bother applying because there's a four year waiting list. So it was quite clear that I wasn't going to get a position back in Dunedin. Um, and at that stage, actually, that would have been my preference to have stayed in Dunedin because I loved living in Dunedin. Um, but so, yeah, so then I had to think, Well, where do I want to live? And I had heard that Wellington was quite a similar city to Dunedin in lots of ways, just bigger. Um and I didn't I knew that [00:15:30] I didn't want to go back up to the far north, and I knew that I didn't want to go back to Auckland, so I said, Oh, I'll work in Wellington, so yeah, So that's why it took a little bit longer. I had to wait for a vacancy to come up in Wellington. Um and so Yeah, so? So I got the call up. And at that stage, I didn't know which station I would be working at. And I didn't know until two weeks before I graduated. So all my stuff was in storage, and I had nowhere to live, but I couldn't look for a flat because I didn't know where I was going to be stationed. Um, and I put my first [00:16:00] preference down as, um and there were a couple of women who I played soccer with who worked there as police officers. And they said that is a pretty good place to work. So I put that down as my first preference, and that's the station that I got. Yeah, given that you're probably hanging out with quite a few feminist lesbians in Dunedin, and they would have known about you wanting to apply for the police. Did anyone give you a hard time about that? Once I had [00:16:30] a at a at a, um you know, your your usual lesbian, um, party get together thing there was one woman who bailed me up in the kitchen. When she found out that I was joining the police, she had a really hard time. And it turned out that her dad was in the police. And she said that it had changed him and that he was an asshole, basically. And and I think in hindsight, I think actually, that was just about her relationship with her dad. Um, but she was worried that, um that that was going to happen to me. [00:17:00] Um, and that I was going to change. I mean, yes, I have. I think I have changed. Um, but I don't think I've necessarily changed for the worse. I think I'm just a different person because of my experiences within the job. Um, that I wouldn't have had if I hadn't joined the police. Yeah, and on joining the police. Were there any issues around your sexuality? Uh, it was interesting, because when I joined, I was living with my partner at the time, and I put her name down on [00:17:30] the application form and listed her as my partner. Um, and she had an obviously female name, and the recruiting officer picked up on it. And during the initial interview, he said to me, Oh, I see that you've listed, um, your partner as a female And it hadn't even occurred to me that that might be an issue that's in my own naivete, because I've been living in a little queer bubble. Um, and I just went, Oh, yeah. Is there a problem with that? And he said, Oh, well, [00:18:00] you know, because some people they join you just need to make sure that you're joining for the right reason and that you're not just pushing your own bandwagon. Yeah, and that that flawed me. And I was just like, Look, I have wanted to join the police since before I knew I was gay. Um, being gay is just part of who I am. I can assure you that I want to join the job because I want to, you know, I want to be a police officer, and he's like, OK, OK, OK. And um and then [00:18:30] about a minute later, he said to me, Look, um, again, I just need to check that you are joining for the right reasons and, um, you know, because, uh, women, when they join they they have a habit of, um they join up and and they're on the job for about a year, and then they get pregnant and they leave. And this is the recruiting officer, and it was just I don't know where his head was at. And interestingly enough, uh, a few years ago, I was on a a course at the police [00:19:00] college with a woman who had the same surname as him, and she was from down that way. And I asked her if she was related, and she said that she was, um, that he was her father. And looking at her length of service, I worked out that she would have been joining around about the same time as me. And I wonder if actually, all that all those questions were about him and his issues with his own daughter joining up. I mean, that's just me making, you know, you know, questioning [00:19:30] whether that's the case. But it seems quite coincidental. Um, but yeah, he was really He was just old school. Yeah. So have you been a diversity liaison, officer? Or if you've seen those positions come through in the police? Yeah. Yeah, I'm a diversity liaison officer. Uh, and I have been since 2004, uh, so 11 [00:20:00] years this year. So I went through in the first diversity liaison officer qualifying course in the inaugural course. Um and yeah, so it's a voluntary portfolio role. Um, and it's basically the diversity liaison. Liaison officers are a conduit between the GL BT I community and the police. Um, and it's sort of one string to our bow, and then the the other side of the role is more internally focused, uh, around, um, changing [00:20:30] culture within the organisation, educating staff, um, supporting staff supporting GL BT I staff, um, and also being a liaison between staff who are investigating crime and the LGBTI community. So it kind of works both ways in that respect as well. Um, because we've got contact contacts and networks that, you know, a lot of staff don't have, So yeah, So that's how that role works. And I'm still I'm still AD O. Yeah, and this year was, uh, [00:21:00] pretty interesting for, um, the police and taking part in the pride marches in Wellington. And, um, Auckland. Can you talk about your role in that Yeah, sure. So, um, So I went up to Auckland, and, uh, I'm currently working in the, um, at the police college, Uh, as a tactical option supervisor, uh, in the gym. And, um, my staff and I do a lot of the graduation ceremonies and provide a colour party. Uh, which [00:21:30] is, uh, carrying the flag basically. And you have one person that carries the flag. And you have, um, three people who protect the flag. You have two escorts, and you have a colour commander who tells the other three what to do. Um, so when when we were given the go ahead to march in the parade, I contacted the organisers. Some of who would do it DL, OS, and some who weren't. And she said, Hey, look, um, we'd like to, um, provide a colour party, um, to to go with the parade. If we're going to do it properly. Let's do [00:22:00] it properly. We're gonna march. Let's have the colours up there. Um and then I sought, um, support from my supervisor, and he put it through, um, the common D at the college. So the, um uh, superintendent, who's the national manager training and he endorsed it. He absolutely thought that it was the right thing to do. So he gave us the go ahead. Um, and we Yeah, we took the colours up and, um, and marched in the parade with with everyone else. And what was the significance for you of the police taking part [00:22:30] in the parade? For me, personally, it was an opportunity to push my own bandwagon, Which would that be? Yeah. No, no. Um, although, you know, I've never forgotten those comments from that recruiting officer, and and to a certain degree, it did feel a little bit like that. In the respect of, you know, um perhaps two fingers up to him, like actually, I can be a police officer and be out and and support [00:23:00] the queer community within the police as well. Um, and that's something that I've been doing as AD LO for 10 years. Uh, and it it just felt like it was a really big step in the right direction for the organisation, as far as, um, recognising and supporting our GL BT I staff. And And it wasn't to me, it wasn't even about the police. Um, and our work with the community. It was actually more about how the police supports [00:23:30] our own staff and, you know, recognition And, you know, breaking down of stereotypes and and any of that workplace stuff that may or may not have been going on in the past. Um, so it was It was a really big step. Um, we we were given the go ahead to march in uniform. Um, but we were not given permission to do it in work time. Um, so it was It was basically [00:24:00] you get yourself up there and then the police didn't pay for any transport or accommodation, and it was in your own time. Um, and there were some people, some GOT i staff who, uh, didn't march because they didn't agree with, um with that stance. But my thoughts on it as well. It's a step in the right direction. You can't expect massive change overnight. Last year we march, but we didn't march in uniform. This year, we march in uniform, [00:24:30] you know, maybe next year or the following year, um, the police will you know, say OK. We recognise that this is you know, this is needed and important for our GL BT I staff? Yeah, because there was a bit of controversy this year in Auckland. Anyway, around the day you weren't involved in that. I wasn't involved, but it happened right in front of me. Um, yeah. So what you're talking about is the protest action. Uh, yeah. So there was a group of three protesters who were actually [00:25:00] protesting, Um, the conditions of trans prisoners, Uh, and yeah, I. I mean, I think everybody has the right to protest. Um, the rules of the parade are basically if you if you're being disruptive and getting in front of the, um, in front of the what do you call them? The people marching. Um, then then you're gonna be you're gonna be removed. Um, and [00:25:30] we were given clear instructions before the march because there's always the possibility of protest and and one of the reasons that the commission of the year before had said no, I don't want you marching in uniform, as he was concerned that if something like that happened and we were in uniform, we would be expected to act, and it would all just get messy and untidy. Um, so our directions where you are here to march. There are operational police staff that are working the parade. Who will deal with any of that focus on the march and just March. And that's exactly what we did. [00:26:00] Um, and so the protesters attempted to disrupt us, and the security guards, um, removed them, managed to keep them out of the way. And I was really proud of the way that the police staff literally just kept their focus, stayed in step and kept marching. And and I think actually that showed huge professionalism because every every one of us in uniform there would have been wanting to step out of line and deal with it. Because that's what we that's what we do. That's what we're employed to do. And so to actually [00:26:30] not step out of line and do anything about it was really difficult. Um, so, yeah, I was really proud of the way that we, um, reacted to that and just OK, just trust that, um, you know, security and operational staff that are working. They'll deal with that. Um, unfortunately, the the woman who was protesting was injured. So there was a lot of flow on and and comment about that afterwards. Um, [00:27:00] but yeah. So that was at the Auckland Pride. And then, um, you were taking part in the Wellington, uh, out in the car park parade as well. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, we would have liked to walk as the DL OS in the parade, but we just didn't have the staff. And it was really just about timing. The the original date. We had a group that were going to be walking in the parade, but we just didn't have the staff there on on that particular day to be able to do it. And so I felt that actually, [00:27:30] we were better served to assist the parade, to move along in a policing role rather than to be walking in it. Um, So yeah, so we were there, um, for the parade. And, you know, we always the DL OS always have a stall out in the park. Um, so that's what we did again this year. Um, So you've had a big birthday this year, So you What was that last year? It was last year. [00:28:00] Yes, I did last year. How old did you turn? I turned 40. How old was it Last year time flies just before yours, remember? Yeah. So? So now you've entered, um, the forties. What does that mean for you? It's interesting. Turning 40. Um, I don't know. A lot of people said, Oh, you know, when you when you turn 40 you know, a lot of things change and fall into place. And I, I didn't think that that would be the case, but actually, [00:28:30] yes, I think I feel more comfortable in my own skin and actually less concerned about what other people think and more concerned about, actually, just, um, you know, making life the way I want it to be. Yeah. You live in a small village outside of Wellington, I could say outside of Palmerston North, and that's that's got a lot of your friends living here. How does how does that feel for you living in this sort of community? I love it. Um, [00:29:00] I had never envisaged uh, living here. Yeah, it just kind of happened, Uh, and I've got no regrets whatsoever. So we've been here for 2.5, coming up with three years this year. Um, and I just bought the house that we've been renting. Um So I guess we're permanent villages now. Uh, and what I love about this village is it's just a little green bubble in lots of ways. And, um, and it it works like, you know, it's a community. [00:29:30] And I I don't think I've ever lived in a place that has such a close community, um, feeling to it. And it's just it's one of the last little you know, you're half an hour out of Wellington, but you don't feel like you are you. You know, you could be, um, you know, semi rural, but yeah, um, just just because I think we need to cover the butch, Um, the exhibition. But can can I just ask you, uh, how it was for you being part [00:30:00] of the butch on Butch photo exhibition? And, um, why you decided to be part of it? Uh, why did I decide to be part of it? I. I just think. Yeah, well, that's me. And and I, I think, um, you know, I wanted to support you in your in your venture. Um, yeah, and it was interesting, because in the question of sort of photos and where we were going to take them, and that came up. I thought a lot about [00:30:30] whether or not I should do it in my uniform. Um, And in the end, I decided that, actually, that's just one part of me. And there's lots of other parts to me. And I guess so, you know, I mean, I would have had to ask for permission from my supervisors in order to do that because it was a public exhibition. Um, and I just didn't want to have to explain it and justify it. Um, and maybe if you do another [00:31:00] one, maybe we could and and maybe I'll be braver next time, but, um, but I think the way that we did it was absolutely fine. And if, actually, if I'd had my motorbike, we probably would have done something with my bike. So and then we took the photo of you at soccer, which is great because, you know, that's my other passion. Yeah. And and I was filthy and muddy and naked, and so that was just like, Yeah, this is me on a Sunday. Yeah, it was nice. It was perfect for the photo. So [00:31:30] thanks very much, Mo. Thanks for the opportunity to be involved in your project.
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