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So here we have Brendan, who's a community development worker, Um, for Wellington Gay Welfare Group. What's some stuff that you do in that role? Um, I coordinate a group called Schools Out, which is a a support and social group for queer youth. Uh, I got two groups going on in town and one hat. Both run weekly, And I also recently set up another queers group for 18 to 25 year olds called, uh, GB LT sandwich. [00:00:30] That's a great name. Yeah, and also looking at another group out in. So yes. And is schools out? Does that meet in schools, or is it after school and out of school or, uh, schools out meets, uh, once a week? Um uh, either in town or a hat at a particular venues which are queer, friendly, queer, friendly venues. Um, near near after school hours. And you've had a long history [00:01:00] of schools out? Yes. Yes. I used to go to schools out myself when I was in high school. Um, because schools that started in my high school while I was at high school. And so I started attending as a youth and for quite a few years, and I've now come back, uh, as a as a facilitator and organiser of the schools out Did you come? You came out at high school, you went to Wellington High, and that's where schools out started. What was that? Like, uh, [00:01:30] coming out and went to the high school was, uh, quite easy. I found that, uh, once I had come out as quite a lot easier for me at the high school. I didn't get as much harassment and bullying because before I came out, as a lot of people are yelling, abusive and homophobic stuff towards me, and I didn't know how to deal with it. Um, And then after I came out, people might, you know, try and bully me. I was like, Yeah, I am gay. So what? And I leave them with nothing else to say. So most people pretty good about it at school, [00:02:00] people were like, Yeah, we sort of guess from the first day of third form. So no one was particularly surprised. Um, yeah. And what about the teachers or what was, you know, faculty and, um, the teachers were generally really good. Uh, some of them were really good at something out. Uh, homophobia and, uh, getting out of the whole. That's OK thing. Um, yeah, some teachers really good. Great at getting to that and sorting that out. So [00:02:30] you would meet a lot of young people who go to a lot of different schools in Wellington. How do other schools in Wellington compare to Wellington? Um, there's a great variety of different schools, and, uh, and for you to come out of school, um, some of it's fine. Some of it It's hard at first, but is that some of them would never come out of their school. Um, yeah, some would [00:03:00] come out and some actually get a lot of harassment for coming out, um, and get really negative responses. And some of them get great responses and become great great role models in their schools. Um, yeah, there's a whole variety of reactions and responses to youth being out at school. And you do quite a lot of, I guess education and awareness, um, stuff in schools. How does that go? Um, that generally goes through Well, it could be quite fun. [00:03:30] I can get some interesting questions. What kind of interesting questions? Questions around, uh, relationships and sex. And, um yeah, uh, all sorts of stuff about what it's like being gay and, um, near all sorts of various random things. Um and did you always know that you were gay? [00:04:00] Um, I've always known that I was attracted to guys from a very young age. It wasn't until I was about 12 or 13. I could actually put a name to it. Um, because I remember as a kid when I was about, you know, 789, 10 years old. We were checking out guys on TV programmes. I think they were attractive. What V programmes? Things like Baywatch man to man. Yeah, I it was part of the thing was that they had to get the guys to at some point during the [00:04:30] programme, which I always found really exciting. And when you came out at school, did you also come out at home? Um, yeah, they were both fairly se they, you know, no longer beside each other. Um, yeah. So basically, when I came out at school, I came out at home. Um, it all sort of happened over a period of about six months. And how did your family. Uh, my family was, uh, overall was, uh, fairly [00:05:00] supportive. Um, they did take a while to get used to that idea. Um, and they weren't generally speaking, they weren't too surprised. Um, there's a few few actions on that. Um, generally, they're OK with that. Do you think they struggled with it at all? I think they did. For the first year or so. Um, but over time, they've gotten used to it, and yeah, they were really good to say, really supportive and talk about stuff with me. So and how did they respond? [00:05:30] Like, what did you actually say to them? And, um, they say, uh, my mother wasn't too surprised. Um, because one of my sewing class in high school, I made a rainbow top, and that was quite a big tip off for her. Uh, my father was surprised. Um, and he he always sort of knew I was a few minutes as a kid, but it didn't click that I might be gay. And, uh, he said that when he when they were trying for me, I was trying. They were trying for a girl. And that's [00:06:00] why I was gay. It was just one of the things, um, and my brother, he he didn't say too much at all. He was like, Oh, yeah, sweet. Um, so he didn't beat you up or anything? Well, he was in America at the time. So did he say to bully you as a kid or as much as any siblings do? I suppose, um, it was always a bit of push and shove between siblings. Uh, I remember one time [00:06:30] when I was about older, he was trying to get myself off me and end up kicking right across the room so he No, no, he was trying to get at me, and I was on the bed with him. He went flying across the room. Um, that the last time you ever tried to get at me, I had quite good league power, so yeah. Um, So what else does schools out there? Is it Is it a support group, or is it a networking group? Or, uh, it's a combination. It's both a support group for you if they do want support [00:07:00] and stuff. But it is also a good networking group. And it's also great for you because it's a place where they can go and meet other people like them going through the similar stuff. And so the labs of being gay and being queer and being, um, abnormal and stuff just completely drop away. Um, so, yeah, they get to be themselves and they get to be known for more about who they are and what their schools are and stuff rather than the fact that they're queer. Same. There's a kind of perception that, you know, everything's all sweet here today. We've [00:07:30] had we've had all these law changes and kids are you know, young people are really, really accepting and fluid and la la la. And then there's also the perception of, you know, quick kids always to kill themselves and self harm and are really depressed all the time. Are any of these stereotypes true? Or, uh, anyway, I think they both those ones are both sort of true in some ways and in other ways, they're completely not true, and nothing's fine. And, um, it's a bit of a chaotic me at times, I think, uh, [00:08:00] particularly for a lot of teenagers. Do you think there is stuff that queer youth face still today? that make things, I guess, more difficult than being straight. Or is it just normal teenage? Um, no. I think I think being being a queer teenager today is is a lot harder than being a heterosexual teenager. Um, I think, yeah, there's a lot of hard stuff they got to get through and face and stuff and challenges. Um hm. Like [00:08:30] like, um, come in terms of who they are, uh, dealing with family, doing with friends, coming out to their, um, classmates and stuff. I mean, if you're straight, you never have to come out and say, Hey, I'm straight. You know, you never have to declare that. Or maybe if you're questioning your gender, you generally you don't have to declare what the gender is, uh, except maybe on forms and stuff. And so if you're, you know, gender flawed, I'm sure about your gender and stuff. You've got to work out what your gender is and, you know, identify [00:09:00] with that and pronounce that. So are you coming across quite a few young people who are gender ambiguous or questioning their gender, and that kind of come across them every now and then? Um, probably I probably said to themselves more underground and harder to find because it's such a big issue. Um, and it's probably even secure and hard. Harder than just being gay or lesbian or just queer. So, yeah, And what, uh, been hearing a new kind of term that [00:09:30] people are identifying with, um asexuals. And someone was saying, No, no, I can't even be under the queer banner, But, um, at schools out, it's It's one of the descriptions. We, um yeah. Sexual is certainly something we've taken under our umbrella under our wing. Um, and we do have quite a few, you know, three or four youth who do identify as asexuals and might be gay and asexuals might be bisexual and asexuals [00:10:00] or whatever, Um, in that school, and yeah, we even have a few straight people schools out as well, and that's fine, too. So, um, we're open. We're open group open to anyone. We don't discriminate. So you did schools out voluntarily for for many years and you've just started, um, being paid now, part time for it. What other community stuff do you do? I know that you do. You do quite a chunk of it. Yeah. Um, [00:10:30] yes, I do. Yeah. Schools out. I also am part of the committee which organises part festival and out in the square. Um, we recently just had a art exhibition which went really well, and it was really successful. Um, and also on the four team. What does that stand for? Safety in schools for queers. And we've just got pink shirt day tomorrow. Tomorrow? Tomorrow? Yeah. Tell me about pink. Pink Shirt Day is [00:11:00] an international day. Um, where it's a anti-bullying campaign. Um, and it's not just it's not necessarily homophobia or anything. It's all pulling across all sorts, Uh, from gender to, uh, race to, um, size to just anyone who doesn't fit into the ideal. I suppose, um, or the normal or anyone who gets bullied in the race And most people have been bullied at some point in their [00:11:30] lives. Um, so yes. So there's a day to recognise, um, yeah, to help fight more to work against bullying. And so it just that people, all these community groups and high schools and primary schools and preschools and stuff will wear pink shirts on Wednesday. So it's a school thing. It's not just a school thing, Um, businesses that get involved as well. And, um, because bullying can happen in the workplaces as well. So, um, it's one thing. [00:12:00] And how did that start up? Did the SSPQ start that or um started the New Zealand, uh, pink shirt day, Uh, pink shirt. Day itself began in Canada, Uh, because a boy was being bullied for wear a pink shirt. His mates caught out of this, uh, thought it was pretty stink. And, uh, that afternoon they went down to the local, um, the shopping mall and got a whole lot of pink shirts [00:12:30] and pink tops and stuff. And then the next day, they, um, hand him out at the gate, Uh, and to show support for the mate who got bullied for wearing a pink shirt, Um, and the bullies never heard from again. And the guy who was bullied, the victim was just blown away by how awesome his mates were and how supportive they were. So, yeah, that was a few years ago. That happened. So you're on those committees and you also have an alter ego. Yeah. Yeah, I also have an [00:13:00] alter ego. Um, all my stage name, which I've been doing for seven years. Um, so I do quite a bit of community work with her? Yeah. And do shows for all sorts of things and travel the country with it as well. Um, yeah. Yes, I do. Quite a lot in the community. And how do you ever get hassled for being a drag queen? Or is it Is it Wellington and it, You know, um, I do get hassled for being a drag queen. Um, [00:13:30] I get a bit in Wellington, I'd probably say, uh, smaller towns around the country. I get more, more more of it. Do you think it's jealousy? Yes. Yes, it it's totally jealousy. The guys wish they could. Girls like girls like me and girls wish they could be Girls like me and girls wish they could get girls like me. And I don't know no, Um, no. I think it's more just, um, more of a fear of the unknown. Um uh, [00:14:00] and yeah, I think we could possibly be intimidating in some ways as well. Um, do you think it's because it's not clear that you I think, Yeah, I think because we do push the boundaries of gender And what is gender and stuff? Um, and I think people can be sort of taken back by that. And, um, yeah, I can find that quite confronting. [00:14:30] Do you experience homophobia as a gay man? And I guess, is when you're not in drag, I do a little bit. Um, if I do, I don't Really I don't think I know. I think I get more than what I notice. I don't think I notice it so much anymore. Um, I think because I've been getting bullying and harassment from such a young age, I think I've sort of got a thick skin when you were little. Little, Little, little. I think I remember getting bulling and harassment from when I was in preschool. Wow. [00:15:00] That's a really long time. Who would have thought 20 odd years of being bullied and harassed? Yeah. Um, but yeah, I think I think I just I just come to ignore it and stuff and headphones. You just have your headphones on and just keep walking and you don't notice it so much. But and I do get, um, bullying and harassment. Um, as a grown up gay male, um, and you to be on the situation will depend on how I deal with it from either just walking [00:15:30] or, uh, making a comment back, um, or throwing a coming out that just completely throws them off. So yeah. So you do quite a lot of community work. Why, Um, I definitely not for the money. Yeah, no II, I One of the thing is that I like to keep busy. Um, yeah. I like to live and enjoy life and try new things, but I think the other part [00:16:00] is I like to get involved, um, and do stuff. And I think it's important to get involved in the in the community, and, um, you a bit frightened? Um, yeah. I like to get out and do stuff. And why is it important for you? Oh, that's, um I think because I've always been quite outgoing myself, and I've always been quite out and proud, and I've also know people who aren't quite out and proud. Um, so [00:16:30] I think it's easy for me to get out there and do this stuff in the community, um, to maybe help those people who aren't out and proud to maybe feel may help them feel more relaxed and OK with who they are. A role model. Um, yeah, and I just really enjoy it. Did you feel like it was really supportive for you when you came out as in Did you know that it always existed or I didn't know there was stuff out there. Um but I definitely felt that once I got [00:17:00] involved with that, I definitely found it was a great support network and a great way to meet other people. Um, and a great way to get involved. And, um yeah, family, basically, sometimes so socialisation socialising and that kind of thing as well. Yeah. And what are the other ways that you socialise, if not just not just volunteering in the community? Uh, I guess going along to other community events which I may not have organised, [00:17:30] I got on to things like outtakes and, uh, looking forward to the big out games here in Washington next year. It should be fun, Uh, also just going out with mates or going to the movies or, uh, not necessarily always going to just stuff, but also going to just general public stuff as well. Um, I always love theatre and arts and entertainment. So I'd like to get out to those things as well. So and would those ways be the main ways that you'd meet people or other gay men or, [00:18:00] um, I Yeah, I guess I do meet them in that way. Uh, otherwise, it's through friends. Um, yeah. I haven't. I haven't. Yeah, I've made a lot of I've made lots of mates and stuff through that way. Uh, yeah, and could potentially meet a partner or something, but nothing at this said So. How would you say that? As a as a big, sweeping question [00:18:30] as a gay man in 2010. How do you feel that you're treated by others? Um, generally, generally generalising. Um, I probably say I treated really well, uh, fairly generally treated equally. Um, yeah, uh, maybe not, uh, complete equal [00:19:00] in some places, but generally speaking fairly well. So the, uh, this would you say there's still a fair bit of homophobia in society? What does it look like? Well, do you? I guess when you're in drag or even when you're not in drag, do you feel fear for your physical safety? Or is it Other forms that homophobia takes, or sometimes it's for my physical safety. Um, sometimes [00:19:30] it could possibly be more to work. Um, how do you mean? No, Just And people not giving you jobs or yeah or not, uh, being able to advance as far as you might like to or say, as you might be able to if you were heterosexual, possibly, or yeah. Or think having more [00:20:00] society pressures to, uh, yeah, it's hard to. It's hard to. It's hard to say. I mean, I think, Yeah, because a lot of I think it's a lot of people don't think about the if you're not queer, you don't think about queer community And, um, how a campaign or how a, uh, say a workplace, uh, activity or something. Uh, may come off as being very, [00:20:30] um, heterosexual. Hetero driven, I suppose. Hm hm. Yeah. Um, so doing a whole bunch of community work as well as being in, you know, quite regular contact with young people who are requiring support or coming out and all that kind of stuff. Um what? What are some things you'd like to change or have society change or change in society? [00:21:00] Oh, um, I think one thing we do would be good here. Would be, um, the being able to get married and civil union is a good state, but it's not. Yeah, not the same. Not the same. Um, being married is different. Yeah, it's still not quite in quality. Um, and I guess also things [00:21:30] around adoption and, uh, other areas we begin to change. And, um, yeah, more. And also, uh, also this gender identity stuff. Um, yeah, I think making things a bit more flexible. Yeah, law wise. And just, uh, and, you know, like forms and stuff or the toilets and stuff. They're very it's very [00:22:00] much the gender binary. And it'd be good to be able to open net a bit more with either, you know, uh, toilets or, uh or say having a instead of just having male and female having like, um male, female and, like, other or and then be able to put in what you identify as or, um or do it as a scale option from male to female. And you can put yourself somewhere on the line. Um, yeah. So some legal [00:22:30] things and some practical things that that could change. What about attitudes? Attitudes could change. I think it's so, um yeah, a lot of attitudes around, uh, sexuality and gender identity. And still in 2010 and assumptions that have made so generally about being straight Or, um, yeah, and [00:23:00] and gender expression and, um, stereotypes. Hm? Yeah. What are your some of your thoughts on stereotypes? Because I remember kind of coming across some. Someone was saying that you know that the really camp gay guy is just propping up the stereotype. And, you know, the really lesbian is just propping up the stereotype And yeah, because I must admit I do generally [00:23:30] fit well, quite well into a gay stereotype. Um, not because I don't know if it's so much of a choice. It's just part of It's just who I am. And it's But I also know there's lots of creep out there who don't fit into stir up and don't fit into the, uh, you know, play stereotype and the butch lesbian stereotype. And I don't think we should have to. And I think there's a lot of people out there who yeah, don't realise that sort of thing. So more about just being [00:24:00] able to express your gender. How you need to? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it's It's similar to race. Racial stereotyping. Um, yeah. I think that a lot as well. Um Mm. So what are your plans? Great plans for the future. You continue doing, um, you continue doing schools out or community work or working with queer youth? Um, I think in the [00:24:30] queer youth side of things, uh, one of my ideas would be to have a drop in youth centre, uh, where you could come 24 7 if they needed. You know, if they're out one night and, uh, didn't have a way of getting home or had been kicked out of home or, uh, we're just too out of it to make it home or or just needed somewhere to go, it would be a nice, safe space. And yeah, and yeah, we have hold meetings there and, [00:25:00] um, have, uh, access to facilities and all sorts of stuff. That was one of my dreams. My ideas, uh, for me? Yeah. I'm not sure continuous to work. I'm not sure. Continuous. My other passions. What are your other passions? Uh, costuming. and fashion has been one of my longest standing passions. I guess drag is another passion. Um, yeah. And I still really enjoy my life Modelling. [00:25:30] So, um, too many. Lots of lots of things on my plate. And do you see you see self leaving Wellington anytime soon because you grew up here, didn't you? I did go up here. Um, I like the idea of possibly being overseas at some point and particularly exploring europe. Uh, but yeah, Not sure. I take things one day at a time and see where I end up. And if someone was to, [00:26:00] um, want to get in touch with schools out either a parent or a young person how How would we find you? Well, how would we find schools out and and your other Was it LGBTI sandwiches or GL BT I sandwiches, Uh, for any of the groups I've mentioned, Um, the easiest Google. Yeah, well, the easiest. The most direct way to get in contact with me is through the work phone number, which is 0277639793. [00:26:30] That's 0277639793. you can also email me at queer underscore schools. Underscore out at hotmail dot com. Um, or just try Googling scores out. Um, for the, uh, GB LT sandwich, you can find us through Facebook. Awesome. Um, yeah. It's [00:27:00] an open group, so anyone can join. So how often do they meet? Uh, they'll be meeting fortnightly in town on a Friday evening. Um, nice way to wind down the week, so yeah. Thank you very much for having me on for with us. Oh, thank you.
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