This page features computer generated text of the source audio. It may contain errors or omissions, so always listen back to the original media to confirm content. You can search the text using Ctrl-F, and you can also play the audio by clicking on a desired timestamp.
I call on government order of the day. Number two. I call on the Honourable Jan. I present a legislative statement on the births, deaths, marriages and relationships the clerk needs to read the item of business match. I'm sorry, your honourable um, the Clark needs to announce the bill 1st. 1st deaths, marriages and relationships Registration bill Second reading. Madam Speaker [00:00:30] I present a legislative statement on the births, deaths, marriages and relationships Registration bill to the House. That legislative statement is published under authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website. Madam Speaker. I move that the births, deaths, marriages and relationships Registration bill be now read a second time, Madam Speaker. This bill was subject to robust debate at the Governance and Administration Select Committee in 2018. [00:01:00] The Select Committee reported back with an enhanced version of the bill with amendments that did a number of things. The government supports the amendments presented by the Select Committee in 2018, and as the minister for internal affairs, I'm pleased to be progressing the bill. I have identified several improvements to these amendments that I believe will better support the needs of transgender non-binary and intersex communities and individuals of all ages. These [00:01:30] amendments are contained in draught supplementary order paper number 59 that was released yesterday. We want to ensure that these provisions adequately support the people they purport to serve. I'm therefore now not only resuming progress on this bill by carrying forward the select committee's 2018 recommendations, but I'm also signalling my intent before the House to invite the Governance and Administration Committee to use its inquiry powers to consider supplementary order paper [00:02:00] number 59. Following the second reading, I will be requesting a full public submission process. Be part of this inquiry to ensure New Zealanders can have their say. I'll come back to speak to that part of the bill shortly, but firstly, I'd like to outline for the House the substantive parts of the bill in regards to the administration and upgrading of our birth deaths and marriages register Madam Speaker. Fundamentally, this bill makes important changes to New Zealand's register of births, deaths and marriages, [00:02:30] a national record that collates information from our first to our last breath and a lot of very important life events in between protecting the integrity of this record is critical. New Zealanders rightly have a growing expectation that all government services are accessible through the online and digital platforms they use. The bill underpins how we create change, use and access identity documents in a way that reflects and supports the ever-changing profile of our communities. [00:03:00] Madam Speaker The bill establishes a legislative framework that will facilitate the development of new access channels for all births, deaths and marriages information and allow greater electronic access to information. We've We've taken the utmost care to ensure that we are also mitigating the misuse of information through robust criteria and evidence of identity that can be verified online. These are all important changes, Madam Speaker. But one of the changes that came [00:03:30] back from Select committee in 2018 has been subject to a fair amount of public debate, and that is around the gender self identification provisions. The process to amend registered sex has not changed since 1995 and yet as a country we have Mr Speak Madam Speaker. This government believes that all New Zealanders, regardless of sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression or sex characteristics, have the right to safety dignity and to live [00:04:00] free from discrimination. Yet our current law requires transgender and intersex New Zealanders to undergo a complex, intimidating and often inaccessible process based on the provision of medical evidence to amend the sex on their birth certificate. A survey in 2019 found that 83% of this community did not have the correct gender represented on their birth certificate. Today we are proud to be the most rainbow parliament in the world. [00:04:30] And yet for many of our rainbow community basic life events where a birth certificate is often used as an, such as enrolling a child at school or opening a new bank account, become a moment of stress, forced outing and discrimination. And as Minister for internal affairs, I think it's unacceptable for us to continue using a government issued birth certificate that causes pain and discrimination for some New Zealanders. Under this bill, transgender non-binary [00:05:00] and intersex New Zealanders will no longer require proof of medical treatment or to show a court that they physically conform to the deeply held and lived knowledge of who they know themselves to be. I'd like to take a moment to put some facts on the record as there has been some confusing information about what this bill will and won't do. So. To be clear, you can already change Madam Speaker. The gender on a birth certificate, the change [00:05:30] of your gender on the passport or a licence already can happen. The bill does not propose changes to the way we collect or record sex information at birth. What we are proposing here and what I am asking the select committee to use their inquiry powers to look at is removing what are frankly, unnecessary barriers for a small but important group of New Zealanders to identify the agenda on their birth certificate. Madam Speaker, This isn't something that has been [00:06:00] dreamed up overnight. This has been part of a substantial policy process to do what this government knows is the right thing to do for our transgender, intersex and non-binary communities. I don't believe that these changes will impact, impinge or threaten the rights of any other New Zealanders, but it will increase the rights of some vulnerable members of our community who deserve the dignity and right to be able to self identify the agenda on their birth certificate without financial, medical or legal barriers. [00:06:30] We are also not alone in making these changes. Since 2012, 15 other countries have adopted a SELF-IDENTITY process as well as Australian states of Tasmania and Victoria. There has been no substantial evidence found of any serious or unmanageable consequences of introducing a self identification process. However, if any unintended consequences do arise, we have built in a statutory review of the self identification [00:07:00] provisions five years after the commencement of this bill. As per the 2018 and select committee's recommendations, the SOP also has an 18 month transition period, which is slightly longer than what I had initially hoped. But we do think it's necessary to ensure this legislation provides the framework intended and the technical infrastructure is in place and ready to give effect to the changes in a way that works for all involved. Madam Speaker. Another aspect of the [00:07:30] self identification provisions that we have given careful consideration of is the rights of transgender, intersect and non-binary Children. This government believes that Children are aware of their gender from a young age, but the act does not reflect this, the bill also introduces two age categories with different requirements that focus on consent and reflect the cognitive development of older adolescents. The draught supplementary order paper number 59 released recommends that young people aged [00:08:00] 16 or 17 years can apply on their own behalf and can choose to either ACCO accompany this with either consent from a guardian or a letter of support from a suitably qualified third party for under sixteens. They still require their guardian to apply on their behalf. This approach is consistent with other legislation. In New Zealand, for example, 16 is the age at which you can apply for a learner, driver's licence and consent to general medical procedures. Before I conclude, I want [00:08:30] to briefly outline other policy changes the SOP makes to improve on the foundations provided by the Select committee. A key amendment is to allow for multiple changes of a sex marker in recognition that gender can be fluid and can develop over the course of a lifetime. The government also pro proposes setting and regulations a wider change of sex markers than those outlined in the bill. Again, this is to ensure that regulation can be adjusted as gender theory and terminology evolves [00:09:00] and allows for a culturally inclusive marker. Madam Speaker. Another area of further consideration is access to self identification for people whose births are not on the New Zealand birth register. This is a complicated area given New Zealand's legislation has no jurisdiction over the off offshore regulations. Therefore, New Zealand's SELF-IDENTITY provisions cannot be used to change the birth records of another country. Then the government recognises that this causes concern [00:09:30] for some New Zealanders and residents who were born overseas and my officials are currently working to address this issue as the bill progresses, Madam Speaker, In order to progress this important work following this debate, I will write to the chair of the Governance and Administration Committee and request that it conducts an inquiry into the draught supplementary order paper to give effect to the proposals that I have outlined today. I will also request that the committee call for public submissions. [00:10:00] It is my intention to progress the bill to the Committee of the whole House stage in three months time as the House would benefit from having the Select Committee's report available for debate prior to the committee's stage. I will also pre present another supplementary order paper unrelated to Self-identity at the Committee of the Whole House stage that will include minor and technical amendments. Madam Speaker The bill and proposed amendments are consistent with this government's [00:10:30] focus on ensuring better health and social outcomes for all New Zealanders and Madam Speaker. I am extremely proud to commend this bill to the House. The question is that the motion be agreed to Speaker Nick Li, Madam Speaker I rise as the National Party's spokesperson for women to take a call on the births, deaths, marriages and relationships registration bill which National is pleased to support tonight. Can I start [00:11:00] by acknowledging the Trans Community of New Zealand, who we welcome we embrace and I commit now that so long as I am a member of this house, I will work to advance their rights and protections. And I say that to every single woman in New Zealand, irrespective of the sex marker on their birth certificate. This bill has had a complicated passage through the House so far. It was originally introduced four years ago to reenact [00:11:30] and update the 1995 legislation. The bill, as introduced included provisions around digital access to information and responded to the review of burial and cremation law by the Law commission. The house was unanimous in the first reading and its contents were well canvassed by the select committee. So why are we here four years later? For the second reading debate is because of a wholesale repeal of current law requiring people to get a family [00:12:00] court declaration to change the sex recorded on their birth certificate. That has been the law in New Zealand for 25 years. And as crown law has observed, the fast paced social recognition of a diversity of genders and self identification has outstripped the legal framework to accommodate it. After the Select Committee received a number of submissions about the limitations of the existing process and without any further public consultation, [00:12:30] it decided to replace it with a new administrative process based on self ID. But it got messy. In February 2019, the then Minister of Internal Affairs Tracy Martin announced the bill would be deferred to deal with problems caused by that select committee process. She said at the time that the changes have been made without adequate public consultation and that this had created a fundamental legal issue. Six months later, she announced some interim measures [00:13:00] to make things easier, like waiving fees for applications, and also announced the establishment of a working group to provide advice on how to further reduce barriers. In April this year, Minister Etti announced more changes to improve the current regime following that working group report. So that brings us up to today where we are debating the bill's second reading before a draught. SOP is referred to the Select Committee for Public Submission and Consultation. It's frankly been an odd process. [00:13:30] For whatever the reason, the government has decided to have a second reading and refer the draught SOP to the committee instead of the bill itself. Now I sit on the committee that will consider it and would like to remind the government that in its 2017 minority report, National set out four concerns about the proposed changes and they were that the consequences of proceeding with the reforms before amendments can be made to corrections regulations. [00:14:00] The broad scope of the definition of health professional that lack of defined criteria or tests determining a change for under eighteens would be in their best interests and that there'd be no defined test to determine if the consequences of an application are truly understood by an eligible adult. Because of the process adopted, though, none of these issues has been able to be addressed in the text of the bill that we're debating tonight. So I thank the minister for [00:14:30] circulating her draught SOP and legislative statement yesterday, so I'm not flying totally blind. The proposed amendments will address some, but not all, of our concerns. For example, the definition of health professional has disappeared altogether and been replaced by suitably qualified third party, which we're now told will be defined post facto and regulation. Most people in this House are aware [00:15:00] that definitions of terms in legislation should not be left for regulation unless there's very good reason to do so. And I'm not convinced that such a reasons here we should be dealing with as many issues as possible up front, not kicking them down the road. I'm also concerned about the 18 month transition period that the ministers mentioned. My view is that we are better if we can agree the detail and get the work done immediately [00:15:30] rather than leave them to be worked out on a for another year and a half. Bearing in mind, this bill has already been before the house for almost four years. But we in the Select committee can have a look at these issues in detail, along with other legal uncertainties detailed in that crown law advice. Critically, Madam Speaker, New Zealanders will now be able to have their say. I think we're all aware that the insertion of the new provisions at the end [00:16:00] of the last select committee process has caused much angst to all the women groups and organisations who have taken the time to write to me and to speak to me. Thank you. You've educated me. I've listened to your views, your concerns, your fears and now you get a chance to make them public. Madam Speaker I'm a former journalist who's made every effort to approach this bill as objectively and as impartially as I possibly could. [00:16:30] I've not listened to hyperbole, and I've not been swayed by hysteria. What I have done is met with every single group and person who has asked me. I've read every single email that has been sent to me I've read websites, some like the parents of transgender and gender diverse Children, and I've conscientiously listened to every single view offered to me. I've heard loud and clear the concern from some groups that allowing people [00:17:00] to change the sex on their birth certificate, according with how they self ID, will lead to an increase of male bodied people in changing rooms or bathrooms. So, in front of this house, I give my insurance that while I hold a seat on the Governance and Administration Select Committee, I'll ensure your voice is heard. For that. I might be called a turf, a trans exclusionary, radical feminist. But I'd like to assure this house that I am neither exclusionary nor radical. [00:17:30] But some of the vitriol that I have seen online has been nothing short of vile. There is no place in New Zealand for the abuse that I've seen coming from some quarters, and it needs to stop because nobody wins, least of all those who are publishing it. As members of this house, we are first and foremost legislators. We have a duty to examine all the consequences of changes that we make to the statute book. Whatever the policy area [00:18:00] in many areas, including this one, we must do it with the utmost sensitivity and without ever forgetting that we are making decisions that will affect the daily lives of New Zealanders. There can be no denying gender transition is a long, hard road. It can be full of confusion, trepidation, heartbreak but also joy. It takes heart and it takes guts. And to those of you on that journey, [00:18:30] may I offer my deepest respect, respect for your sincerity, your determination and your belief and your sense of self. I have a strong belief that both the government and this parliament have duties to New Zealanders to make progressive humanitarian updates to law, especially when the law makes the lives of some New Zealanders harder than it does for others. We should reform, and we should liberalise where we can. [00:19:00] And as a member of a party that emerged out of a great reform and liberal era some 85 years ago, I'm proud to be continuing that movement. It is imperative the public, the experts, the clinicians and trans New Zealanders can all have the opportunity to have a say and feed into this legislation organisations, groups and individuals who have concerns about the impact of sex. Self ID have not had the opportunity to contribute [00:19:30] and be a part of the democratic process. It is now time for their voice to be heard. Madam Speaker. It has been a messy process, but I look forward to the select committee consideration of the proposed changes and to seeing if we in this house can produce a high quality piece of legislation for all women. And I commend this bill to the house I called. Thank you, [00:20:00] Madam Speaker and I rise in support of the second reading, uh, of this bill. Um, it is a a bill that has been on the order paper for quite some time. Uh, it is historical, uh, in nature, I guess. And I just want to acknowledge the Minister, uh, the Honourable Jan for effectively pushing the go button again to kickstart um, the process. Um, I have to say that I'm pleased to learn this evening that the opposition will be supporting, uh, the progress of this legislation. Madam [00:20:30] Speaker, there are many things in life that, uh, the integrity of which is so important, uh, births, deaths marriages. Civil unions are for examples, Uh, that's covered by that level of importance. And they're important for those who are subject to the issue of the certificate themselves or who are subject to the issue, uh, of the licence. But they're also important to those further down the track for family research, historical research and genealogical, uh, purposes as well. [00:21:00] But what's also important is that the accessibility of those documents, apart from being accurate, are also accessible in a way in which is meeting the desires of modern times. And that is exactly what this Bill does do. Many people will know, for example, that when it comes to marriage licences, uh, the old approach was you would have to trot down to the District Court, uh, complete the paperwork, and then the celebrant would be required to lodge that with the District court. That is not the case anymore. People can apply [00:21:30] for those licences online, and a celebrant simply needs to take a snap, uh, or photo of the documentation and and email it through. So times have very much changed. I want to thank the Minister for, uh, her tabling of of draught SOP number 59 Because what that does is it seeks to address discrimination, pain hurt, that is experienced and felt by members in our community. Because the current law [00:22:00] actually prevents them from truly in an administrative sense, uh, truly identifying themselves as who they wish to be in a noncomplex way. The current law actually does not support the validation of identity for many who face other barriers around being identified as who they truly wish to be. And so supplementary order paper Number 59 effectively delivers on that Madam Speaker. I want to indicate that as [00:22:30] a member or as the deputy chair of the Governance Administration Select Committee, I am looking forward to the select committee availing availing itself of its inquiry powers, uh, to consider the draught SOP. I know that as a committee that is collegial, it works really hard, and I look forward to the public submissions and that process being open to allow members of our community to submit, uh, and we look forward to hearing from them. But I do expect to hear from members of our rainbow community. I expect [00:23:00] to hear from members of our Maori Pacifica new migrant community and also other communities in New Zealand. And I'm delighted that the second reading has come and that this draught supplementary order, uh, paper number 59 and the minister's name will be referred to the select committee. I commend this to the house. Thank you, Madam Speaker. It's a pleasure to rise and, uh, speak on the second reading of the birth deaths, marriages and relationships Registration Bill [00:23:30] tonight, um, and to, uh, support taking this bill back to select committee. So I rise. Uh, not only as a member of the national party Caucus, but also, uh, as chair of the governance and ads and administration, uh, committee. And I would like to, uh, Echo. The words of Mr is that, uh, we are a good, collegial committee, and we will make our best endeavours around, Uh, you know, doing our best, uh, with our inquiry powers on this piece of legislation. [00:24:00] Uh, what I would also like to do is because this, uh, bill underwent its first reading such a long time ago, Uh, in December 2017. Uh, and there has been expressed tonight that the time has come to bring it to the house Um, But the Select Select Committee at that stage, um, made substantial amendments, including an allowance for individuals to change the sex on their birth certificate via an administration [00:24:30] process based on SELF-IDENTITY. And the change occurred after public submissions had closed and following the presentation of a petition with 23 signatories. Now, what I would like to say about that is I really want to, uh, commend Minister Jan uh for coming in and being very, uh, thorough with the legislation in which she [00:25:00] puts in front of the house and recognising the fact that those changes, uh, had been made. Uh, the bill had previously been withdrawn by the then Minister Tracey Martin in February 2019, uh, noting the significant changes and Minister Jan has come in and recognised that those changes were rather too significant to just plough through with the bill. As we often see with pieces of legislation, uh, [00:25:30] sometimes pride in getting things getting passed gets on the road. Uh, this minister, uh, I believe, is a good minister who is intent on making sure that the legislation that we pass, uh, ends up in a very, uh, fit for purpose state So the National Party minority report, Uh, that went with the first uh, session of this through the governance and administration. Uh, committee back in 2018, um, report included, uh, members [00:26:00] are broadly supportive of the bill as introduced into the house in 2017, along with the technical and clarifying amendments recommended by officials. While the National Party members do not wish to stand in the way of reform of self identification of nominated sex on birth certificates, serious concerns remain with respect to some aspects of the recommendations. And the specific aspects of those were proceeding [00:26:30] with reform before amendments to the corrections regulations, 2005 are determined. The broad scope of the definition of health professional, no defined criteria and or test to be applied to determine that a change to nominated sets for under 18 year olds is in the individual's best interest. No defined test to evidence that the consequence of an application are truly understood for an eligible [00:27:00] adult. And so those were our concerns, and they weren't just the concerns of the national caucus. Uh, obviously, uh, Minister had become aware of a range of concerns, and I welcome her supplementary order. Paper number 59. Obviously, there's been some work done here because, um, you know, there there's some changes in here that, uh, we will definitely be looking at as a committee. Uh, and I want to give the commitment [00:27:30] that the Governance and Administration Committee look forward to using our inquiry powers and being objective and thorough. And listen, listening to the feedback that comes through, uh, to make sure that this bill is fit for purpose so that we can bring back to the House in a state where we can stand and say that we have listened to the concerns of the public, Uh, we have taken the submissions in, [00:28:00] and we have fully considered them and turned the bill around and bring it back to the house so that we can be comfortable that the legislation has had a fair hearing from the public. Because at the end of the day, when legislation hasn't had a fair hearing from the public, uh, it doesn't always turn out the way that is expected. And, uh, again, I commend the minister for taking this into account. So with that, uh, madam chair, uh, I recommend [00:28:30] and commend the second reading of this bill. Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a pleasure to take a call on the births, deaths, marriages and relationships registration bill. And I want to thank minister for her leadership on this bill and the former members of the Governance and Administration Select Committee and officials for their work. Madam Speaker. While this bill has been in the public eye for a number of months due to the amendments surrounding self identification on birth [00:29:00] certificates, the bill also makes changes to how New Zealand operates the births, deaths and marriages register. Put simply, the bill makes changes to the register to allow greater electronic access to information while also mitigating the misuse of information through robust criteria and evidence of identity that can be verified online. This will ensure the right balance is struck between individual privacy and access to personal information for New Zealanders. Madam Speaker. Since this bill [00:29:30] was first introduced and considered by the Select Committee, the committee following submissions, reported back to the House with suggested changes that would remove unnecessary barriers for people to self identify the agenda on their birth certificate. Under our current law, transgender and intersex. New Zealanders have to undergo a complex and inaccessible process based on medical evidence to amend the sex on their birth certificate. This process excludes people who are unable [00:30:00] or unwilling to undertake medical treatment as part of their transition. This means that many people who are transgender do not have the correct gender represented on their birth certificate. The bill will allow people to change the sex on their birth certificate by moving to a self identification process. Madam Speaker Some of the criticism pointed at this bill suggests that the current process is working fine and doesn't need to change. However, I note that New Zealanders [00:30:30] can already currently self identify the agenda on their driver's licence or passport. Madam Speaker. It has been unfortunate and distressing that some groups have sought to demonise trans people by claiming that men will change the sex on their birth certificate so that they can access women's spaces such as prisons, changing rooms and women's refuges. Madam Speaker Before entering parliament, I was a board member at the Nelson Women's and Children's Refuge. It is not [00:31:00] the policy of refuge to require a birth certificate to access the life saving services of refuge. Our policy is inclusive of diversity. The Nelson women's Refuge, diverse needs policy states, and I'll read it. The refuge understands that gender identity can be non-binary and is open to providing services to transgender gender, queer intersex or people who choose to live with a more fluid gender identity. Furthermore, [00:31:30] it states, the refuge respects the right for clients to choose not to disclose their sexual identity. For SO-CALLED, women's advocacy or rights groups to suggest that the work of women's refuge will be put at risk and that women will be unsafe because of this bill is outrageous. It is wrong, and it is disgraceful. As a woman who has campaigned and worked for women's refuges, I'm offended that these people supposed to speak for me. They do not. Likewise, [00:32:00] Madam Speaker, it would be most unusual to ask a woman to produce a birth certificate in order to enter a public toilet or a changing room. I have never been asked to produce a birth certificate to enter a woman's space, and it's disgraceful to suggest that this bill would make women's spaces unsafe for women. Another area of further consideration that the government is looking into is access to self identification for people who were born overseas. This is a difficult task, and it's [00:32:30] a situation that causes distress for people, including one of my own constituents. Madam Speaker. Our young members of our rainbow community can be subject to discrimination as they go up as they go about their daily lives, at school, at work, at church and in the community. For transgender New Zealanders, this discrimination can be even tougher. In Nelson, over 100 people, many of them young, protested against this campaign of misinformation. I want to acknowledge the work of Q youth, pride, [00:33:00] Nelson and all their allies for their work and pushing back on the damaging and hurtful misinformation put into the public domain. I'm incredibly proud of them, and I want them to know that I have their back as a member of the Governance and Administration Select Committee that will be considering this bill, I look forward to hearing from our diverse communities about how we can continue to make a a safer and more inclusive country. I am very proud tonight, Madam Speaker to commend this bill to the house. [00:33:30] Same this Do you wish to wish to call Doctor Elizabeth. Uh, it is with great pleasure that after generations of systemic discrimination and decades of community activism, the Green Party is proudly here today to maintain our long state of policy that trans intersex and non-binary people should [00:34:00] be able to self-identity the gender on their birth certificate. Uh, so that all New Zealanders can have documents of identity that reflect who they are. Minister for bringing this bill into the House after it has been stalled for so long. We acknowledge there are many other aspects to this bill, but we are focusing on legal gender recognition. Tonight, August 2021 will go down in the history books as one of the most momentous [00:34:30] months for Rainbow Communities. Because only last week the Conversion Practises bill passed its first reading and Laurel Hubbard competed as the first openly Trans woman at the Olympics. Who knows how well Laurel could have performed if the entire world wasn't watching her so closely with so many of them judging her not just for being there, but for her very existence. Greetings to all of you in the gallery tonight, all [00:35:00] our youth leaders, all of our community leaders, uh, and a particular shout out to Mary Mitchell, whose leadership for intersex people has taught us all and as a mentor to me, the marriages and relationship Regis Registration Bill has arrived here today without the fanfare that accompanied the conversion practises bill. It is, however, no less significant. I offer a that [00:35:30] got us to this point. It is by no means means the full extent of organising in our communities or even in this house. As with many of the issues facing people with diverse genders, sexualities and sex characteristics, the discrimination against us can be easily traced back to colonisation and the way that early colonists, colonists and missionaries pathologize and criminalised us. But any person who did not fit the construct of a real man, a real woman and people who should be in [00:36:00] heterosexual, non monogamous, no monogamous relationships. Our people rejected and subverted it back then. And we've continued to do so ever since fast forward to this century. In 2004, the first openly trans MP in the world, the legendary Georgina buyers had her member's bill drawn from the biscuit tin to specify gender identity in the Human Rights Act. The acting solicitor general at the time, however, concluded that Trans people were already [00:36:30] included in the sex section of the act, so she withdrew. It withdrew it. The Human Rights Commission has maintained since then and even before then that that is the correct position. However, gender expression is not included. After extensive consultation in 2017, the Human Rights Commission produced to be Who I am report of the inquiry into discrimination experienced by transgender people. It identified the lack of protection for trans people whose documents of identity [00:37:00] did not match the actual gender identity or expression. Unfortunately, though, many of us cited it, uh, the recommendations continued, uh, contained within. We left to languish until that is in 2012. As a direct result, the Department of Internal Affairs amended their passport policy, allowing holders to select FM, or X options for their sex through a statutory declaration process with no requirement for medical evidence [00:37:30] in 2013, The New Zealand Transport Authority, you know that Radical department, uh, followed suit with options of male, female and indeterminate, so contrary to the ominous predictions and fearmongering of anti trans lobbyists. No women's rights have been eroded since then in changing rooms, bathrooms or anywhere else. What has happened is that trans intersex and non-binary people have gained some dignity in their lives. [00:38:00] Also in 2013, Trans activists and allies wrote the first U PR to the United Nations, which raised this issue. Shout out to Joey McDonald and Jack Burn and all the other activists who fed into the work at that time around that time, my colleague and longtime Rainbow leader in this house, the fabulous but humble Jen Logie uh, ran a consultation with the trans community, uh, to identify the issues they wanted the Green Party to progress for them. Uh, Jan [00:38:30] met with, uh, Alison Hamlet and other trans women regarding their struggles with legal gender recognition. And Jan supported Alison to make us a petition 2015, a coalition of rainbow organisations was formed in Wellington. Uh, we took, uh, shout out to Inside Out and Bella Simpson and other groups who were part of that coalition and we took a series of recommendations to parliament. Uh, and of course, this was part of it. The Idaho coalition [00:39:00] presented again in 2016 and has maintained contact with the Cross Parliamentary Rainbow Network ever since Alison Hamblet presented her petition in 2016. It called on the minister of internal affairs to enable adults with intersex conditions and trans and other gender diverse adults to change the sex details on any official documentation. In 2017, the government administration Committee agreed and recommended that the minister [00:39:30] of internal affairs instruct officials to review Section 28 of the act with a view to amending it to approach predicated on Self-identity. I acknowledge the members of that select committee, the chair the Honourable Ruth Dyson, Matt Do, Paul Foster, Bell the Honourable, the Honourable Scott Simpson and Joan Loki, who replaced Barry Coats for the Greens. I'm told that one national member uttered the fateful words. Why would the court get to [00:40:00] decide someone's gender? Why, indeed? The honourable Ruth Dyson spoke directly to the minister at that time, who was the honourable Peter Dunn, who was very receptive and that same year the Death Marriages and Relationship Registration registration bill was first introduced to parliament. The select committee heard the evidence of the multiple, uh, activists. However, [00:40:30] as we've been told, the minister decided not to proceed in 2020. The prison report. If you are involved with Rainbow Communities, you should be very familiar. And if you have not got this, then I suggest you do the human rights issues relating to sexual orientation, gender identity and expression and sex characteristics. So, uh, and a New Zealand shout out to tame Polho, uh, from the Human Rights Commission who co uh who [00:41:00] co ran the consultations and wrote this report. It states the current process presents an obstacle to the full enjoyment of the right to legal gender recognition by restricting access and privileging those who pursue a medical transition. Such a process is inconsistent with the rights to bodily autonomy and integrity due to the requirement of modifying one's body in order to acquire a birth certificate displaying the correct sex, [00:41:30] United Nations bodies have found that if a person is forced or coerced to undergo surgeries or hormone treatment in order to obtain legal documents, this may amount to ill treatment or torture. So let's look at the legislation itself. The light reading of 100 and 18 pages we got given yesterday. This process will enable trans intersex [00:42:00] non-binary and people to move from a family court process to one where they can make a statutory declaration. It is only fair that every Trans and non-binary person and intersex person born in a should be able to change the gender marker on their birth certificate through a process that is enhancing, accessible and affordable. We think the COP is close to achieving that. We do have some issues. We'll continue [00:42:30] that conversation inside the select committee. Uh, but particularly for tonight, I want to point out that we agree that there must be pathways for New Zealand citizens who are born overseas migrants, refugees and asylum seekers to obtain certificates or other documents of identity issued by internal affairs in their self identified gender. To conclude, I look at where we've come to and I wonder what we can learn from all of this. Number one. All the hard work is worth it. [00:43:00] Every every submission, every petition, it is worth it all the collaboration, the checking of each other's work, making sure we have consistent languaging the tiredness it is worth it. Number two. We have allies who will help us and who will stick their necks out for us in the community and in this house never prejudge somebody based on their political affiliations. We do not know what is happening in their lives. We do not know what is happening in their heart. To conclude as [00:43:30] a lesbian fem ally to our trends intersects a non-binary to all of those here and those of you watching. And in honour of all of those we have lost because of that discrimination and the violence against you. I'm very proud to commend this bill to the house. Kilda, I call David Seymour. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of the Act party [00:44:00] in support of the births, deaths, marriages and relationships. Registration Bill, Madam Speaker. This is a piece of legislation whose original Genesis might have been described charitably as pedestrian. Uh, rearranging some of the administrative provisions and law, uh, for the registration of births, deaths, marriages and relationships may not have been, uh, the kinds of [00:44:30] political projects that brought the original minister to the house and made them want to pursue a political career. Um, needless to say as people have followed this issue, uh, will be aware, um, at select committee stage, it entered into political controversy that is best located, uh, in a long tradition of New Zealanders moving towards the light of liberty uh, a tradition [00:45:00] that has seen New Zealanders over time gradually gain additional freedoms and additional equality, uh, between different New Zealanders. And it's a very proud history. Although it has often been a fraught one, perhaps New Zealand's greatest political achievement votes for every adult New Zealander The first truly world leading [00:45:30] political achievement, uh, of our country, uh, was nonetheless controversial in its time. Difficult as that may now be to imagine, uh, as we have gone on our equality in terms of sexuality and this house, the civil unions, and then marriage Equality, uh, and dare I say it the end of Life Choice Act have each increased, uh, the freedom of New Zealanders to live as they [00:46:00] wish to live, to be who they want to be and to have autonomy over their body. Uh, it is a very proud tradition. Uh, but in each case, uh, there have also been people that have objected for a range of reasons. Uh, some valid, some not. And so has been the case with this piece of legislation. It is clear that there are many New Zealanders who [00:46:30] feel that their identity at birth does not represent, uh, their true identity. And the way they feel about that, uh, may change over time. I think it's important. And I think it's important to put on record for people who doubt that that those feelings are sincere and genuine and supported, actually, by considerable objective evidence, too. [00:47:00] Nonetheless, it is important that we also listen to a variety of voices. And this is where I would like to commend the Minister, uh, for not only the policy changes that she's proposed in this SOP, um, but the procedural dexterity that she has shown and being prepared to send the bill back to select committee to hear more voices and give [00:47:30] it further consideration. I hesitate. But I can't help myself from comparing that to some of the instances of legislation that has been rushed through the house and this and the previous term of parliament, uh, by this government. Uh, but the minister responsible for this bill, uh, Jan Etti has chosen to do the opposite. She's chosen to send the bill after a long period of consideration, [00:48:00] Having previously been to a select committee, uh, back to select committee again, Um, with a considerable number of, uh changes proposed most critical among them, uh, takes into account some of the objections that have been raised and acknowledges that there will be times when, for some legal purposes by some entities, uh, the the the the [00:48:30] sex sex identity, uh, that was given at birth may still be relevant to some people for some purposes. And I think that the minister has artfully allowed for that possibility in the way that that SOP is drafted. Um, that I think, is not only, uh, good lawmaking. Uh, it's actually good citizenry to promote a process that allows [00:49:00] all voices to be heard and all considerations to be made. And what has been a sensitive issue for people on both sides of a debate. The act party looks forward to the bill being considered on select committee. We look forward to this legislation progressing to achieve the many noble if pedestrian and perhaps perfunctory tasks, um, that it was [00:49:30] originally launched to do, uh, but also to resolve what has been one of the more controversial issues in New Zealand politics. That is the kind of progress that New Zealand has always managed to make. In the end, it's one of the things that makes me proud to be a New Zealander to live in a country where, through civil conversation, we ultimately resolve issues and manage to live together in relative [00:50:00] harmony. Uh, with that, uh, Madam Speaker, I commend the bills of this house on its second reading. Uh, I look forward to the select committee process, Um, and further committee of the whole house, uh, process where we'll be able to truly say that this piece of legislation has been given the full compliment of consideration that a piece of legislation can have from our democratic process [00:50:30] and that we will be a better and stronger country for it. A more compassionate and inclusive society for it. And that is law making at its best. I commend the minister in particular, and this bill to the house at its second reading. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I call on Tamati. Coffee. Uh, thank you, Madam Speaker. Uh, I'm gonna jump straight into it. Thank you to our minister Jan 10, for bringing this to the house. Uh, thank you to the other parties of [00:51:00] this Parliament, uh, for also putting in its support behind it. Uh, and also, thank you, of course, to the people that submitted, uh, that took that time three years ago, uh, to front up to the select committee and put their thoughts on I'm going to focus on the self identification of birth certificates because for me, uh, this is the game changer. Uh, this is going to be the thing that allows our trans community across the country to breathe a sigh of relief tonight and hopefully reverse some of the negative outcomes that we know, uh, plague our trans community tonight. Uh, we're talking business, so let me get [00:51:30] into it. Uh, first of all, I want to start with a submitter who took a cultural lens, uh, to this whole debate. They said in a traditionally Maori allowed a space for a wide range of gender definitions. It's been through a process of colonisation and cultural genocide that these were reduced to two, and that gender is biologically determined within a that same characteristic of gender fluidity is now linked to disproportionately high rates of assault, of murder, of suicide, particularly for Maori and Pacific Island transgender youth. [00:52:00] The inability to have your gender identity publicly acknowledged, has been linked to all kinds of fatal outcomes in multiple studies. Uh, the Submitter said, it's my submission, uh, that any move to reduce gender to biological determination places Maori and Pacific Island youth at continued and increased risk risk of suicide. Uh, that's from, uh, and I thank her for bringing that to the fore. Uh, another submission, uh, talked about, uh, the great lengths that Trans [00:52:30] people go through under the status quo. The discrimination that they face. Uh, they talked about applying for a job, uh, using a birth certificate, which might be the only form of ID that you have, uh, the potential discrimination in the hiring process and the trauma, Uh, that said also enrolling in, uh, things like study, which for many of us is just a a very easy process to go through. Uh, but when, uh, the, uh, the gender doesn't match the person that's sitting in front of the administrator. The registrar, actually, uh, that [00:53:00] creates quite an incredibly intimidating and off-putting situation can make things quite overwhelming. Copy that. Same situation over to access to health care, access to government services, government support, especially when you're travelling and living overseas. Uh, if your birth certificate is that thing that you have to use again, it traumatises and re traumatises our trans community. Uh, and that was a submission that was put forward by the intersex Trust A in New Zealand. So thank you to and to, uh, for bringing that submission. Uh, [00:53:30] the other submission that I wanted to talk about was from Sharon Forsyth and Tommy Hamilton, uh, both champions within the community. And, uh, they put in their submission on behalf of parents and caregivers of transgender and gender diverse Children in New Zealand. Uh, the group has approximately 100 and 80 parent and caregiver members from across New Zealand. Uh, if nothing else, if there is a family out there that didn't know that this group exists now you do, uh, but what they took links to point out, uh, was that, uh, the of our Children [00:54:00] through this whole press, Uh, through this whole process, has got to be, um, something that we think about front of centre. Um uh, they said we're interested in this bill is gender identity and the social and legal recognition of that gender identity, as expressed by an individual, is considered to be a key factor in positive mental health outcomes for our Children and for other gender diverse individuals. When our Children live their lives as one gender and then are forced through legal documents to be referred to as a gender that isn't their own, it hurts them. Um, [00:54:30] they go on to say, we have experience of our Children being singled out, uh, say on domestic flights, uh, because they are in the system as their biological sex as opposed to their gender. And this leads to scrutiny, questioning and embarrassment. Uh, they have seen that in their own Children's lives. Uh, that being mis gendered makes that far, far worse. So, uh, Madam Speaker, uh, to all of the rainbow community that are out there listening tonight and to all of our allies, uh, that are swinging into support. Uh, we want to say to our trans [00:55:00] community, your lives matter, your stories matter, your struggles matter. We see you. We hear you. And tonight we stand beside you. Madam Speaker, I call on the honourable Louise Upton. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'm, uh, proud to speak in the second reading and support births, deaths and marriages and relationships. Registration Bill, Um, which is, of course, a very clear example of how societal change isn't matched by legal changes. [00:55:30] So when the bill was first intro introduced in 2017 and August, uh, it was, of course, a national government at that time, and it was changing a piece of legislation that had only been introduced and passed in 95. Um, but even within the short period of time, uh, things have changed, uh, further so as others in the House have have talked about, the fact that it was introduced in 2017 was pretty straightforward. Pretty straightforward in terms of just Modernising [00:56:00] some of the access, the ability to change information and access, uh, records. Uh, and it also was looking at, um, burial and cremation law in 2018. Uh, there were significant changes that were recommended. Uh, part of that came from a petition, and, uh, Madam Speaker that just demonstrates that for people who are considering, uh, petitions to Parliament. Um, what you do, what you present to [00:56:30] parliament can make changes. And so I would encourage people who want to engage, uh, with the parliament to do exactly that. So the petition, um, to the select committee, uh, did lead to quite substantial changes to the bill, Uh, which allowed people to change their sex on their birth certificate via an administrative process, Uh, based on self identification. Um, of course. It was then withdrawn in 2019 by the then Minister Tracy Martin. [00:57:00] Uh, and Jan has done a significant amount of work in 2021 to draught an SOP that has been, um, discussed at length today. I do want to put on record, though, um, the concerns that my colleague, uh, Nicola Rigg, uh, clearly outlined and the concerns that the national caucus put in the minority report. And I would urge, um, members of the select committee that are going to be, uh, dealing with the inquiry to also consider, um, the [00:57:30] issues or the concerns, uh, that were that were raised at the time. And one of the things that I think is unfortunate. Um Madam, Uh, speaker is that most people don't get to see the working mechanics of how a select committee actually engages. Um, and that's always been, um, probably a disappointment of mine. Because if you think about whether real real work occurs, um, of parliamentarians, it's often in that select committee. So I'm going to take this opportunity to, [00:58:00] um, urge the members on the government and, um administration select committee to, uh, not only deal with the issues in the SOP using the inquiry powers, which is an unusual kind of mechanism that the minister has chosen. Um, but also consider the other issues and concerns that the national members, um, raised in, uh, the minority report. So there is an opportunity for further input, uh, and scrutiny. And I'd encourage people to take the opportunity to do [00:58:30] that. Um, as the act member outlined, it is a sensitive issue. Um, I would say it's also a complex issue, and one we shouldn't shy away from the very important need to make it easier for a person to change their sex recorded on their birth certificate and the need to maintain women's rights to retain protected spaces and services aimed at women. So I do encourage the public to participate in the inquiry. Um, and I do [00:59:00] encourage the select committee members to consider, um, the issues on the table. Thank you. I call on Prime [00:59:30] [01:00:00] Madam Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to take a short call. Um, on the bill. [01:00:30] Um, this evening, I, um, firstly, wanted to to all of those who are here, um, tonight, uh, debating this also in the gallery and those watching at home. It is a very important, uh, to to many people, and I wanted to remind everybody of a that is, um, very famous up north. What is the most important thing in this world? It is people. It is people. It is people. And I hope that during this debate that we remember, um, that, [01:01:00] uh, I want to acknowledge the minister. Um, the Honourable her and I are walking friends, and so we have, uh, we go for a walk during the dinner break, and we have talked about this issue and how challenging. Um, it can be at times from the type of correspondence that she receives on this, um, on this issue. Um, but I am really proud of the principled approach that she has taken to doing. Uh, what is right? Um and what is fair, uh, to a group in our community. And so I'm pleased that it [01:01:30] has made it to this stage in the process. And I did want to, um, highlight a couple of things from her speech. Uh, that really, um, struck me. And I think the real issue that I, um, agree with is that people are being caused pain and discrimination because of a government issued birth certificate. You know, I think back in our history, and this hasn't always, um, existed. But since it has existed, [01:02:00] it has created a problem for some people. Under this bill, transgender, non-binary and intersex New Zealanders will no longer require proof of medical treatment or to show a court that they physically conform to the deeply held and lived knowledge of who they are and who they know themselves to be. The minister gave in her, um, opening speech. Uh, some evidence, uh, which I think is really compelling. When a survey was undertaken in 2019 [01:02:30] 83% of the community surveyed did not have the correct gender represented on their birth certificate. And it's those people and that percentage, Um, who responded to the survey that I think we really need to, um, concentrate on and focus on. And so I'm pleased that the minister is recommending that this be referred back to the select committee that there be, um, an inquiry process. And I really hope that for those who are, um, impacted [01:03:00] by this legislation for those who this legislation is in intended to serve, I hope that they submit and tell us whether it meets their needs or not. And that's the voice that I I'm not a member of that select committee, but I really do hope that they feel safe and able to participate in that process. Uh, also for those that might be listening, um, a point was made that while New Zealand, uh, does lead in many areas in the world, this is actually one area where, [01:03:30] um, where we aren't and that there are at least 15 other countries in the world who in fact already do this. And so, um, I think that it is time for us to, um to get on with it. to refer it to the select committee. I encourage everybody, um, to participate in that process, particularly those who this legislation is intended to serve. I call on Glenn Bennett. Thank you, Madam Speaker. And as I say that, I think maybe standing orders need [01:04:00] to be, uh, reviewed when it comes to Madam Speaker or Mr Speaker and in other forms again, as we are here, uh, looking at, um, at titles. And firstly, this evening, I want to, uh, say a big thank you to our transgender non-binary intersect and gender diverse. Thank you for bearing with us. Thank you for waiting for us to get to [01:04:30] this point. Now, this bill, uh, brings our birth deaths and marriages register into the 21st century. Now, this isn't just, uh, a technology thing creating greater access. This is also a cultural thing. This is also a space that, uh brings modern society, uh, into this legislation. And as we know, uh, and as Tamati co spoke earlier around Maori language in terms of those pronouns or lack of and, [01:05:00] of course, in our English language, uh, if you're referring to, uh, to others, there there's the four. There's uh, he I am sorry that wasn't that hard, was it? But of course, if we go back in time, um, good old English actually didn't have that back many, many centuries ago. Thee and thou was used commonly, So we are always on the move. As a culture, [01:05:30] we're always on the move. And as a nation, I'm proud to be part of this parliament as we progress as we ensure that we are an inclusive nation. And I came into this house because I knew what it was like to be on the margins. And I came into this house to ensure that my voice, uh, was part of of the voice of the margins here at Parliament. And I want to speak up for our community. I want to give a voice, and I hope that this piece of [01:06:00] legislation helps to remove the shame, the trauma that comes when having to negotiate paperwork and birth certificates and as our minister and thank you to our minister Jan, as she said earlier and was referred just before in that survey in 2019 that 83% of our transgender intersects and non-binary did not have the correct gender represented on their birth certificates. And I dream of a nation that [01:06:30] loves nurtures includes all people where our transgender intersects and non-binary feel affirmed, empowered and free to have their agenda that they want on their birth certificate. I want to thank all the parties in this Parliament for supporting this piece of legislation. This bill is a bill that is deeply affirming for some in our community, and I look forward to the day when gender identity [01:07:00] is not even considered. I don't know about going back to a day when we use these and now, but maybe a day when they and them is commonplace. I commend this build of the house. I call on Simon O'Connor and the speaker. The key thing when we ever get into the space of rights and particularly, uh, what we're talking about here at the core of one's identity or the community at large is competing views. [01:07:30] Uh, and there's probably nothing more essential than the sense of one's biological se, uh, sex, and then the sense of one's gender identity and how it's expressed not only in itself, but then how the community receives that. So I think it's a very positive decision tonight, uh, that the house, by the sound of it, is going to pass this second reading. But importantly, put, uh, the bill. Well, parts the bill effectively back to the select committee through an inquiry mechanism to have a discussion. Because if one thing has been, uh, very, very clear is that there are, if you will, two sides [01:08:00] to this discussion, uh, this debate and both have said they want a chance to speak, so I think that's a very healthy way forward. Uh, but the key to for any debate and discussion, uh, is respect for national, uh, debate. And that's something I'm looking forward to. I'm sure, uh, from members of parliament who sit on that committee. Uh, but something that I look forward to seeing much more of, uh, from the communities who come before the parliament to share their views. I call on Doctor Deborah [01:08:30] Russell, Madam Speaker. I wish to begin by thanking the Minister for bringing this SOP to the house and for sending it to the Select Committee for an inquiry. And I wish to thank all the speakers tonight who have approached this matter very carefully, and I think, respectfully, I want to reflect on the words of a wise man, Uh, Damien O'Connor. For the record, [01:09:00] uh, and it's something that Damian, uh, that Mr O'Connor, Damian, whatever. That man. Uh, chance Chance said to me, uh, as a relatively new parliamentarian, um, to me and some others about a year in, um and he said in this house, we don't legislate for the ordinary case. We legislate for the margins. And tonight we are here legislating for the marginalised [01:09:30] to try to help make the world a better place for people who have been pushed to the margins of our society. So I've heard that, uh, I've reflected on that for a long time that legislating for the margins and realising that our job here as parliamentarians is to protect the vulnerable is to support those who need extra help is to support people in unusual circumstances [01:10:00] who just wish to lead ordinary lives. And that is what we hope to enable them to do. I know that some of the people listening in tonight won't understand what it's all about. They just don't get it, you know? What's the problem with birth certificates and sex and official documents and the like, uh, you know, that's a pretty easy position for someone who is cisgender to take for someone [01:10:30] who just exists in the body they were born with and no worries about it. But actually, um, we don't those of us who are C gender don't need to understand. All we need to understand is that our Trans would like us to make this change to make their lives better. So that is what we are about. So tonight, Madam Speaker, I stand here for Kate for Lisa, who [01:11:00] comes to see me in my electorate office from time to time for Roy. Uh, for Sarah, Um, for kushla, stepson, for Anna's boy, for Emma's boy. These are friends and friends, Children who are working through this difficult process, which should not be difficult. And that is who we are here tonight who we are here for tonight for the marginalised. I urge those who submit to the select committee [01:11:30] to remember to treat this process with care and respect. Why? Because we are talking about the marginalised and we should have more care and more respect when that is what we are doing. And so with those words, Madam Speaker, I commend this to the house, right? The question is that the amendments recommended by the governance at at Administration committee by majority be agreed to Those of that opinion [01:12:00] will say I to the contrary. No, the eyes have it. The question is that the motion be agreed to those of that opinion will say I to the contrary. No, the eyes have it. Births, deaths and marriages and relationships. Registration bill Second reading. This bill is set down for committee stage next sitting day.
This page features computer generated text of the source audio. It may contain errors or omissions, so always listen back to the original media to confirm content.
Tags