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OK, Well, the first time I went to prison was for fraud charges, and I was 17 at the time where I was placed into a youth part of the AM means prison. It was sheltered, and it was different compared to actual prison, because I was only with 17 to 20 year olds and I was pretty much the whitest one there. [00:00:30] So I was We were only allowed out of ourselves an hour a day. I knew that was my first experience. It was pretty mellow when you've never been to prison. And you have, like, um, ideas about what it would be like. How did it How was it in comparison and in my head, I just thought of my first time in prison just going to be a horrendous time with [00:01:00] fights, arguing and just a whole bunch of different people acting recklessly. But everyone just wants to do their time and get out because they do one little thing in there. They stay in there for longer. And the only time you really get grief from anyone is people that are in there for life, right? Yeah. So when you're in like the young people one. That's probably not very often, um, when I was in the youth division for 17 [00:01:30] to 20 year olds, there were three lifers in there and I actually felt sorry for them. They were all in there for, um, manslaughter from car accidents. Oh, yeah. Right. So how long were you in there for my very first time. I was placed in the youth division for two months, and then I was placed on house arrest. Then, from house arrest, I cut off my bracelet, [00:02:00] and I was placed in prison for 3.5 years. But I was released on 13 months. 3.5 years is a long time. When I was in there for two months on in the youth division, I was on remand. I was on a remand in custody. I was sentenced to seven months home detention and because I breached the my home the house arrest. They resentenced me on all of my charges. And because I was 18. By that point, [00:02:30] I was placed as an adult. So initially you were, like, initially and then Yeah, and so then it was a harsher penalty because you were an adult you were saying that like if they find out or when they find out that you are gay, they try to put you in protection and you have talked your way out of it. Tell us about that. OK, I will win. You initially go into the [00:03:00] prison and you get checked out by the health team, the psych team and the prison wardens. They will question you on your sexuality. If they find or have a hint of thinking that you are that way inclined, they will put you into protection. And you've got to. You can either happily go into protection or convince yourself that I convince them that you should be put into mainstream prison like everyone else just [00:03:30] because it's not really worth the risk of being put into protection because the amount of grief that you would actually get in prison just for being placed in there. So, yeah, so you get a hard time for being put in protection? Well, it's mainly only paedophiles, rapists and more. Just old people are placed. So if you, um if you're pretty much under the age of 30 you get put into protection, you automatically classed [00:04:00] as a rapist or a paedophile. So people just assume they've done something really, really bad. Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. And, um, you were also saying something before about GCB or Shorten Street. Can you tell us about that? Um, yeah, well, it was just There's nothing to do in prison at night time and you get TV S in your cells [00:04:30] and pretty much the entire unit that you I was placed in in prison. You weren't allowed to speak at all from seven o'clock to eight o'clock. Wow, because everyone would be And, um this Like he said, there was a seven o'clock to eight o'clock is the our night wreck after dinner and they've got pool tables, table tennis starts, and there's a big lounge area with a big flat screen TV, and you're not allowed to enter the lounge area [00:05:00] if you're loud, because the older people will spazz out at you. So the older people are watching the street and yeah, and the well, the tail ending of the news. Anyone over the age of 40 in prison is obsessed with the weather at like 5 to 7 like it's it almost started a riot one night, and that's not even an exaggeration. I had, like 20 people over the age of 40 trying to go like 5 20 year olds because [00:05:30] one of one of them cracked up laughing at like, 10 to 7, and they couldn't hear what the weather was like in Dunedin. And we were in Christchurch. So I don't know what the relevance was because it's not like you could go there. So that's the thing that happened. And so that's like, That's your break time. Like after dinner, you've got, like, a limited amount of time to hang out and kind of do socialising recreation. And so you were saying before that, once you get out of prison, [00:06:00] it makes it really hard to get jobs if you, um if you don't have a clear record for, like two years and so you know, then obviously that puts you in a position where it's difficult to make money in a legal way, so it sort of puts you at risk of having to do something else illegal to get by. So as it stands, the process of being released from prison, you, [00:06:30] if you've been in there longer than 28 days. You get a thing called Steps to Freedom, which is a check for $350 and then you've got $350 to live on for three weeks because they delay your benefit for three weeks until they will place you on one. So you've got $350 for 21 days, and in that time you probably won't get a job because [00:07:00] 90% of jobs these days will do a criminal background check. And in my experience, no one's ever been willing to give me a job because it's been under two years since my last record. So that makes it really difficult. It does. And, yeah, that's how most people will reoffend and be back in prison within a month of their being released. Do you think that you get treated differently by the court system because of your sexuality or your ethnicity, [00:07:30] et cetera. Um, when I was standing in court waiting to be sentenced, I my lawyer said something about my sexuality and in a way that kind of seemed like I was trying to get off my charge, and the police turned around and pretty much said that. I like to use it as an excuse to get away with things, and that's that's actually on my records now with the judges and every [00:08:00] time judges will bring it up. And because of that, apparently I am never remorseful for any of my convictions. And it's all because when I'm when I'm in an awkward position or when I'm like like, shamed out or like being shunned, I giggle. Yeah, that's my automatic response. I'll giggle. There's like masses of academic theory on people of colour and like using humour to deal with oppressive situations like That's such a thing. It's once [00:08:30] given me an extra three months in prison. Wow, just because I laughed. I was sentenced for my 3.5 years and I'd gone back to court six months after I'd been sentenced for fines and I didn't know how much driving plans I actually had occurred. And the judge said 18,000 and I laughed and he had just finished saying he was going to give me a month extra in prison and I laughed [00:09:00] and he was like, three months, you know, the court system doesn't really think, but how much it actually affects people's lives. Yeah, because it must affect your life. And like a lot of a lot of ways that people don't necessarily think about like, um so, like, 11 way that it might affect things I guess is like, um, how your relationships go and the queer community Or, you know, like the kind of, you know, do you feel like [00:09:30] it's Yeah, I probably lose. When I got out of prison, I probably lost about pretty much 50% of my high school friends. And like in the gay community, when most people find out that I've been to prison, they will stop talking to me. People's opinions on you are very well. It all depends if they have people in their background that have been to prison. If they have, then [00:10:00] they're OK like generally speaking. But if they if they don't really have someone close to them that have been in that sort of situation or been into, like a rehab situation, then they don't really understand and they just think automatic. They are a bad person. They won't change type scenario and it it takes a lot for most people to get around that they just have this specific I like idea [00:10:30] on what people that go to prison are like and will forever be like. And it's kind of just trying to break that barrier, which is never really works. Yeah, because it's the benefit of the doubt and stuff. Yeah, and it's more worse with the charges that I went to prison for being fraud, mainly because they automatically think that I just want to I'm just saying what they want to hear, and people never really give it a chance. They just [00:11:00] And that's weird. Yeah. What do you think would be useful like when you get released from prison? Um, I'm just thinking, Yeah, like I've actually heard, like from a lot of people that when they get out of prison, it's really hard, you know, like with the money stuff and with the getting employment and even with getting housing. And sometimes there's like some kind of programmes that's meant to help you, you know, quote unquote reintegrate in society or whatever. [00:11:30] Um, what do you think would be really useful? Like, what do you think that the prison system or the government should do to, like, support people when they're coming out of prison to, like, you know, be able to carry on with life and not have a hard time. Um, speaking for myself, there isn't really anything for gay males when being released from prison. But I was most of the time I have been in prison was in Invercargill. And when you are [00:12:00] released from prison, you need to put down an address and like an address where you're staying. And if you can't provide one of those, there's only the Salvation Army. Right? So you have to have a fixed address to get depending on what your release conditions are. And yeah, so it it could be It can be hard for some open, openly gay males in prison. So having like a criminal conviction really seriously can impact your life? [00:12:30] Yeah. And your career choices, you know, like basically for the first two years of your last criminal charge on your record, that pretty much that two years, you only get like, labouring jobs. And like horrendous jobs, you can't even get a job in the supermarkets or at McDonald's, and they won't give you a labouring job unless you've got experience and all my actual work experience is through telemarketing, [00:13:00] Call centre work. Been working in administration, and I can't work for any of those anymore, right? So then your options when you come out of prison is voluntary work. Yep, that doesn't pay the bills. Like when I got out of prison December 31st, 2013, I moved [00:13:30] to Wellington, couldn't get a job, become a sex worker and volunteered at the NZ PC. Yeah, so it, like, cuts down a lot of your, I suppose. Do you reckon that that's largely because of, um, because it's not as though it's illegal to give someone a job who's been to prison? I suppose that's heaps to do with, like, stigma against people who have their actions. And it's just it's easy to judge someone on paper without meeting them [00:14:00] and just the fact that they're reading about it on paper like first before even willing to meet you or give you an interview. Just the whole thing on our paper will pretty much notice the time. Avoid that scenario of you getting an interview and even when if you, by chance you do get an interview because they're like they understand the situation that it will really happen. But if it does, you pretty much get the job. If they get willing to give you an interview knowing about your criminal record, [00:14:30] Yeah, so, like the places that are not prejudiced against you, you know, the places that aren't going to automatically discriminate against you once they meet you, They're like, Oh, yeah, you're awesome. And yeah, but it's just it's hard these days because most jobs will want at least a year experience. And no one's willing to give you the experience so you can get the job. So you're saying that you did sex work when you, um when you came here, [00:15:00] was that different than you thought it would be? And what kind of did you find that you, um, you know me like interesting people or I? I was 16. Um, it wasn't because I needed the money or I was dependent on drugs or anything like that. I was on a dating website. SI was 18. Some guy offered me money and I was just like, people [00:15:30] do this, and I'm not going to say no sex for money because like, it's my two favourite things. And yeah, it started off from there. And as much as I give it out for free, I give it out just as much for money. So I I enjoy it. Yeah, it's quite a common way that people will start, you know, not like sort of setting out to do sex work, but just kind of like I've worked pro. Um, I've worked for myself on numerous occasions, and I've [00:16:00] also worked in male parlours. Well, a male parlour. Actually, I've worked in two male parlo. What was the main like differences or what did you like or dislike about, You know, working for yourself versus working for myself. I got to keep 100% of the money, and I got to choose what sort of money I was to earn. And a it's they've chosen the amount, and you, at the best of time, will see half of it [00:16:30] if that so, I, I do prefer working privately, but there's always that kind of doing privately and working in a parlour. So the plus side, like what you get for the half the money that you have to give to the parlour to the to the owner or whatever that's for. Like the plus side of working in a parlour would be that you don't have to have your own place where you can work from or what was that security [00:17:00] and not having to fund yourself for advertising and or trying to putting yourself out there to get clients. It's Everything just comes to you. You sit there and look pretty until they arrive, and when you're doing it privately yourself and, um, when you're doing it privately yourself, you're you can either be putting yourself out there on dating websites, uh, grinder, tinder advertising in the newspapers. [00:17:30] And you're putting through the effort of talking to the guys, seeing which ones are actually gonna book you or which ones are just wanting to chat and then just cycling through them and actually getting down to getting a booking, which can take ages, which is just the effort that you put into it is what you'll get out of it. So lots of the actual work of it is in the hustle to kind of set the book up, would you say, because I've heard people say that, like, it's more work arranging, [00:18:00] You know, the hustle is more work than the actual what happens in the room kind of thing. Yeah, like you. Well, if you're, like, privately, if you're advertising in the newspaper, you could just get someone that will contact you and be like, Are you available now? I'll come see you now. They weren't actual details or your preference or anything like that. They'll just show up. But then you've got the guys who want to know about every little freckle on your body. And so how did you find out working for a manager like, um, you know, working in [00:18:30] a and a male brothel. It was a little bit awkward because my boss was kind of like my mom. She was actually your mum. Yes. My mom was my No, Um, one of my was my one of my best friends. Mom and I called her mom, and we ended up living together in the brothel. So it was a little bit of a, um unusual. Set up like I mean a little bit different from Yeah, it's not really your standard brothel life or sex worker [00:19:00] life. It was working receptions. While if the client wasn't me, I'd be going into the back room. I was answering doors. And would you say that, um, sex workers taught you or, like, helped you develop different skills that you might not have otherwise got, Like, some people you know will say that they are really good at negotiating or, you know, they're really good at, Like making people feel comfortable with that kind of thing. Do you feel like you got any? Um I [00:19:30] was pretty much I pretty much had all those skills. Like I'm black, so I'm good at hustling automatically. Um, the only thing was, I pretty much started off in the industry as vanilla, and now I can happily hurt people for enjoyment and get paid for it.
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