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I am a trans girl living in Wellington, and I am 25 years old. Um, at what age did you start to question your gender? Oh, it's going back. Um, I, I say, at the age of 12, Um, I wasn't really questioning my gender back then. I knew there wasn't really something wasn't really right. But I didn't know how. Because, you know, I grew up in a real kind of in the Maori society where, you know, boys and girls, you know, boys, my father [00:00:30] expected a lot from me and, you know, treated me in a certain way. He look, he took good care of me, but it was just the the, you know, the way the gender of different genders are treated in that time, especially in the nineties. You know, the last kind of the area where a lot of change happened. Did you talk to anyone about about your feelings about gender when you were about that age? Who did you first talk to? Um, the first person I ever talked to talked to it about was, um, last year. Actually, [00:01:00] um, I was I was on Facebook because, um, I spent before that I spent about a year doing transgender art, and that's how I kind of expressed it. But I spent a lot of time doing my art anyway. And I mainly draw girls, probably because I was more fascinated with the female body. And also it was kind of my way of showing what I think of myself on the inside, but right in everyone's faces as a way to express yourself. Yeah, well, that's a long time for you to have these feelings without [00:01:30] telling anyone. Was that a difficult time for you? Well, it was It was difficult because, like, I never fit with anyone. I was even like in school, you know, I was always alone, pretty much I. I did make friends, but at the same time, those friends hurt me. I wasn't quite sure it's It's either, like they were saying bad things about me or, you know, they they just didn't understand what I was like. And it wasn't like acting. Let's say, you know, like totally cliche or anything. I think [00:02:00] just the kind of vibe I gave off in the kind of things I did, Um, I wasn't interested in anything that anyone else is interested. I wasn't interested in doing, you know, like the the the casual things, like rugby or basketball or things like that. I wasn't into those sort of sports, and I never really liked to hang around with, you know, guys as well or girls. I was kind of in my own little kind of thing there, you know, and I'd meet people who were sort of the same. But in the end, you know, I couldn't really find who I fit with in the end. So I spent most of my time sitting in class rank [00:02:30] because of, um, the pressure that was put on to you by your family. How do you think that? Um, the process would have been different for you. Had your family not had those those, um, gender pressures on you? I have no idea. Um, it could have turned out any anyway. You know, um, it's because there was no There was nothing around to educate in my time. There's nothing around there, uh, to mention [00:03:00] or educate it, you know, because I come from a small town in the east coast and they never no one ever spoke about those sort of things. And so, in a way, I had no idea what it was because I, you know, I've never met anyone or or seen anything, you know? So you know, it kind of really what? I really kind of it kind of really started when I when the internet first came, you know, I got the dial up, and then I I just started, You know, I was playing video games on it first, but then, out of curiosity, I started searching these words like gender and, you know, [00:03:30] change and all that sort of thing and, you know, just kind of because it was kind of what I was more attracted to, you know, kind of. That's what I was more drawn to in the end, Uh, that, you know, it wasn't like something I. I was kind of switched on. I was always kind of in that field of stuff, but I spent most of my time on Internet sites that were related to that. But I never met anyone, and I never told my parents or my family who was the first trans person you met. Well, do you remember the first trans person you met? Uh, no, I don't Really. I don't really remember the first trans person I met. Like, I've [00:04:00] I've, you know, during my years growing up, I've come across some and every time I come across one you know, when I was like, younger, my heart will always race. Yeah, I, I kind of I kind of freak out because for me is, you know, not not in fear, but kind of just, you know, something like it's, like, kind of like a I felt really comfortable at the same time. This I was really curious what it was, but I never, never had the courage to ask or say anything. It was just more like, Yeah, I felt because [00:04:30] it's like, um something that really close to me is right there nearby. But I you know, I just didn't know how to communicate or what to say. So I kept to myself a lot. Are you out to your family? No, I am. No, I am. How did they take it? Pretty hard. I guess. It's like, you know, it's it's No, It's a normal reaction for a family. You know, Um uh, for parents, in my opinion, you know, from my experience and from what I experience by talking to others, it's more like, uh, the [00:05:00] parents kind of look back on how they treated their own Children and think they've done something wrong, because I think I've seen the parents because our parents come from a different time as well, and they wouldn't be educated on these things as well. And so and also And so when, If one of their Children come out this way, let's say if it's gay or queer or, you know, feel that they're not in the in the body they want they might think it's their fault. But have they done wrong? Um, my because I, I told my mother I couldn't tell my father. My father is a [00:05:30] very He's a, you know, a very old school guy and a guy, and I spent a lot of time with him growing up and working with him on his projects and stuff, you know, he even took me out of school so I can go work with him out in the country. So I spent a lot of time with him, and I know what he's like, and so yeah, it was, Um yeah, they they're still dealing with it now, Like it's only been almost a year now. Probably a year now, since I came out and told everyone, Yeah, you know, just kind of looking back at it. A lot has changed since then, but not Yeah, they [00:06:00] they're taking it hard, and so and so so is my family. But, um, when I recently because my grandmother passed away in October last year. So it was a huge family reunion, you know, for her funeral. And, you know, I met a lot of family members I haven't seen in a long time, and I actually got quite a good bit of support. But what's really what really bothers me, though what I want to get sorted out is my parents. I want I want to have their not their approve, but I want them to kind of they they do love [00:06:30] me, and I love them. But I want them to kind of, you know, feel I want to feel the love from them. Yeah, and it's I find it difficult to communicate with them, even though they are accepting, you know, But for me, I, I know that there's, you know there's there. There still needs to be a bit more time for them to adjust to this. Yeah, In what ways could they express the love they feel for you so that you feel it? Do you think, um, I got to spend more time with them because I I've been here the whole time and they don't [00:07:00] know what They don't know what's going on with me. You know, they don't know what's happening and they Yeah, and they they want me to. They want me to come back and live with them, which I agree. And I I will and later this year move back with them. But I, I think, yeah, I need to spend more time with them and show them you know how happy I am and how much I'm willing to help them out. Help the family And, you know, and because my father, he he wanted me to be the successor to the family and I said, Well, I can still be the successor to the family, you know, it's not worth stopping that [00:07:30] and yeah, that's that's all. I really just kind of get to know them again, That's all I think. Because I don't see them enough anymore. Yeah, too far away. How did your friends react when you came out? My friends, What's funny about my friends is I've always I've always, like, hung out with people. They were quite open minded about everything you know and quite quite chilled out about everything. Sure, a few of them were surprised. But in the end, life carried on as usual. Yeah, um, sometimes I forget which [00:08:00] bugs me a bit at times, but that's just, you know, that's normal. But, um, I think I have not really lost any friends over this. Um, I think I might have lost one, but that might have been my fault because I kind of had a little tension, but as the perks that comes with what I'm taking at the moment, Yeah, but yeah, I will fix our friendship again. Yeah, it's not really broken. It's just kind of I need a bit of a break from him because he drives me nuts. So it sounds like you have a really good support system. I do? Yeah. Um, I [00:08:30] because my my support Because what? I know, um, my real support comes from my kinder. My martial art is a little We got a little family doing that as well. But it's my martial arts and instructors, you know, they are a gay couple, and they they they have been running the club for about over a decade now. And I met them. At least I've been known them for about six years. And, um, when I came out to them, you know, they're kind of like my second mom. Yeah, um, one of them, because one of them [00:09:00] works for women's refuge and the other one works in a diabetes clinic. But she also knows one of the endocrinologists there that takes me. So it's like a real good connection. But I also got their support as well. Uh, yeah, I. I could say my support is pretty good, like, because, like I said, I think when I, I think when I the people I met growing up or coming to Wellington where I was more attracted to those people naturally, those people that have been more accepting and whatever happens, you know, they'll always be there for me. Yeah, and they support me. Would you say that the [00:09:30] community has been overall a supportive place for you. Um, it is like I like I like to turn up now and then and, you know, socialise. I've always liked doing that at the same time, I socialise with my, you know, casual mates with my with my flat or, you know, their places and stuff. But I haven't been too involved in the queer community because I'm I'm kind of like to keep to myself a lot. Uh, because for me, I've always been that kind of person. I never really like [00:10:00] to have too much, you know, like I. I never like to bring too much attention to myself, You know, Not, you know. So unless, like, unless it's, like, for, like, a a project or something kind of worth of worthy of that. Yeah. Not not not going out there looking for it. Yeah. Have you experienced much transphobia transphobia from other people? Surprisingly, not much. I do know. I do. See, I do know I do Fuck people's expressions. Um, in [00:10:30] my opinion, I just find it funny. You know, I just find it like funny, but also like, give someone, you know, someone having a a usual day and when they see me looking at someone like me gives them something to think or talk about regardless of positive or negative. But I've had, I think recently I had one transphobia experience quite in the bus. Actually, it's, um, this drunk Maori guy I got on and I sat at the he was sat at the back. I went on the same same time as he did, and [00:11:00] I sat in front of him the seat. And as soon as he saw me sit down, he kind of went Whoa and slid across the seat like I ain't And he's swearing. He was swearing at me and all that, and I ain't sitting there. And I just looked at him, took my glasses off him, and I was saying to him in Maori, like, What does that mean? I said, What's the problem in Maori? And he goes, Oh, blah, blah, blah. And he started rapping to me, and I was. I started getting smart. That goes like you talk about dude, you got to lay off the booze, blah, blah, blah, blah, You know, all [00:11:30] that sort of stuff. I was ready to defend myself, but and but what's what's funny was, um you know, he was rambling on about all this sort of stuff, and then I, you know, it wasn't half of it was kind of homophobic. Yeah, I wasn't. It was just kind of just drunken rap. But then I told him where I came from and my heritage and his his attitude completely changed because I said, I ain't no, I ain't a nobody, right? So you're getting smacked to me while I'll tell you where I come from? [00:12:00] Yeah, my family who I am Then who are you? And I was like, Ah, he ended up kind of shaking my hand when he left the bus. So it sounds like a really positive result to potentially negative situation. If if, like a negative situation occurs that involves your safety, the best thing to do is not to pay any attention or not to feel that kind of aggression. That that person is giving you the best way [00:12:30] to to deal with it is either to, you know, politely ask them to you know, not to stop that all. You kind of try to relate to them and If that doesn't work well, you know, you're not You're not the next one. You know, you got two options. Either just leave or ignore them. If you have your group of friends, you are right. Or, you know, worse comes to worst. Yeah, people to the middle. But I always thought if someone were to come and hurt me in the public or weather, I have I. I think I have the upper hand in the fight because I have more of [00:13:00] a reason to defend myself and fight. You know, they're fighting because they don't like me. I'm fighting to survive, and I'm fighting to protect who I am and showing them who I really am. So do you think that's something that you, as a trans girl, have to worry about more than other people? Um, for me, like when I walk the streets, I don't worry about anything Like for me, II. I expect to be treated just like anyone else in society. You know, whether they straight, you know, you know, whether they or gay or, you know, for me it doesn't matter. It's like II. I walk my [00:13:30] day like, you know, like any day and the the things that go in my mind was just normal things. Like, What should I get for dinner tonight or Oh, what time is it? I got to meet so and so there. And I just do that, you know, I never think about it. I never Because I thought if I were to bring any attention to that, you know, mentally that'll that will bring that attention to you in the end. Because you you you're kind of projecting that onto others. And that, and that gives people the chance to, you know, pick at you. Um, but there was, um oh, actually, a few days ago Tuesday [00:14:00] night, Yeah, I was at New World down the bottom there, and then, you know, it was a little young, um, Polynesian boys look pretty cheeky. Polynesian boys. Um, so, you know, walking through the entrance of New World into the into the grocery store, and then, um uh, he kind of was he kind of came straight towards me, and he didn't stop for me to go in, and I just cut right through him, and then he started, like, getting smart to me. You know, he started, he started saying hello to me. But like in a real exaggerated gay, [00:14:30] we going Oh, hello. And I stopped and I looked at him and he did it to me again. And he expected me to kind of, you know, say something. Say something, you know, kind of like that. Like real queer. I just stared at him and I just put my fist up like I wanted to fight him and shifted towards him and he kind of stepped back and I looked at him and then he just walked off and he greeted my friend. I was waiting for me on the inside. It sounds like you're you're really good at dealing with those sorts of situations. [00:15:00] Um, if you had any advice to people who are Trans girls who are coming out or who are finding themselves in these sorts of situations, what would that be? Confidence, Um, you know, intent. It's like, you know, if you if if you go out, it's like I said before, it's your behaviour. If you go out there thinking negative thoughts, you know, and if if If you if you see yourself as weak or vulnerable to others you will. You will receive that because you're attracting that negativity. [00:15:30] I say, Yeah, I'd say the best way to deal with it is not to think about it. You know, because you know, if you if you are, if you are, if you do say you are being who you really are, then what's there to worry? You know, of course, people on the outside, you are people you know who do not understand this, you know, or see it differently. Or there's a bad thing. We see it as that. But that's not your problem. That's their problem. And if they want to show you that problem, well, you know, um, [00:16:00] just, you know, it's don't Don't worry about it, you know, because they want what people these days want to see is a reaction. And you don't want to give them that, you know? Yeah. If you could, um, give any message out to the parents and friends and close family of of people who are coming out as Trans. What would that be? I'd say, um, support because, like for me, I have a lot of support. But like [00:16:30] if if even if Even if that goes by by a fraction that that that gives a huge impact on me like you need. You need your support. Like I say, for parents parents, it is normal for parents to to hurt when when their child comes out saying they you know they want to be this person because that's how they really want to be. Because in in the parents' perspective, it's like, OK, the child they just raised [00:17:00] in a way is is passed on. And now there's It's not. Now a new person is taking their place, but it's not a but you're still it's still that same person. But the parents see it as that, Um, and then you. They'll either deny that it's happening, you know, or cast you out or just, you know, kind of take a wild misunderstanding. They don't know. So my so for words for parents is you know, it will be hard, but give them that support, you know, help them through it And, you know, and and then if [00:17:30] if that person is in doubt of their decision, well, you know, let them figure it out for themselves. But, you know, but never doubt them never never show them neglect. Never, you know, never cast them out. Because the parents, your parents are probably the you know, the biggest thing you're ever going to have. You'll have your friends to help you. But if your parents don't help you, well, that makes it a whole lot harder. Yeah, be a million times better if your parents loved you. So for parents, yeah, love your child no matter what. Yeah, and what can we [00:18:00] as queer people do to help make the way for coming out trans girls easier? Well, there's no way. I wouldn't say there's no way to push that. It it comes naturally. It's up to that person to decide whether to come out or not, whether you know whether to be who they really want to be. And when they and then if they do, you know, like you can. It's It's kind of hard to tell who wants you know who is coming out and who's [00:18:30] not. It's really up to them. What can we do to make the community a more inclusive space for people? Um, I'd say, like, you know, like how we how we did our group at transform Yeah, that's a good That's a good thing. But transform. Transform is a group that takes that's at the evolved youth happen every Tuesday fortnight. And it is for queer and trans people to come meet up and speak their mind about things and learn from [00:19:00] others who have, you know, come out earlier who know more about what's going on. Yeah. Do you think groups like that are important? Very important. Um, because it it it actually, you know, it needed because for me on a regular basis, I hardly meet up with any trans people until I go to that. Yeah, I may see some on the street and things, but, like, you know, they're just carrying on with their day like and carrying on mine. You know, we don't want to go around, you know, talking about that all the times as just complete strangers or other people. You know, I think [00:19:30] that group is specifically for that, and it actually gives you the chance to express your feelings about these about these subjects. Yeah, and and then get your answers from it.
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