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[00:00:30] um, Right. So N So I'm Jenna Rose. I grew up in Wellington, and, um, yeah, I mean, I'm queer. I identify that way. Um, and yeah. Been living in Wellington, born and bred. Still here, Um, have done a lot of interesting things in my life. I hope I can talk a little bit about that today, but, um, [00:01:00] yeah, that's why. Great. Um, first up, how How do you identify beyond queer? If if there is anything like that, it's really interesting, because when I grew up, I never There weren't really that many terms that we use at that time. It was usually by gay lesbian. I mean, I really talked about transgender at that point. And now it's I'm happy that it's, um, become more connected. And we're talking about that more, but, uh, yeah. So, [00:01:30] out of those three options, I kind of had, uh, in the beginning, I think when I was younger, when I first started to, um I guess identify, um, was when I was about 14 or 15, and I actually had my first, um, you know, interaction with the girl. So, um, I was introduced to those labels in a sense and trying to put myself in one of them was rather difficult, because I still, you know, did a lot of men. I always, [00:02:00] you know, did since when I was younger. But, um, I always had this, um, this feeling that you couldn't explain when you were younger, but, uh, I could only really understand, as I got older and more intimate with people. So I guess then I was bisexual. And then, obviously, I went to my life and, um, only recently within the last three years have really identified as I guess, being a lesbian. Um, [00:02:30] and that was a pretty long journey. So yeah, a lot of interesting stories there. What changed in the last three years for you to help? You kind of make that step. Um, well, I guess the relationships that I've had in the past, um, my longer term ones have been with women. Um, although I have had relationships with them, but the ones that I felt more connection with, in a sense, um, [00:03:00] were were women. And there's certainly no disrespect to any men that I've been with because they've all been really lovely, lovely people. And, um, I've been lucky to have had those experiences. But about three years ago, I was dating a really lovely guy and, um, before him I dated another guy and I think they were two really important men to me because it was a time where I was kind of conflicted as to how [00:03:30] I viewed myself. Because although I was with these really lovely guys, I didn't I couldn't pass a level with them almost like you're playing a video game. And you're like, OK, you're at level three and you're trying to get to level four. But, um, I just never got there. And, um, it was really hard for me because, um, they were really good to me. And I couldn't give them back what they deserved, really. And, um, what they wanted for me. So I ended those relationships. But it was the second one was the most important. [00:04:00] Um, because that's when I really said it out loud and said it to myself. I said it to him subsequently as well. So that actual day itself when I told him, um that I couldn't I couldn't love him because I was I was gay. We literally I literally screamed it at him and it was really tough. I mean, I think the day had already been a bit of a nightmare and there was so much emotion. Um, already So you know, [00:04:30] when you get to that point, it's it's you've got nothing left but in emotion. So it was a bit hard. It was quite hard, But, um, for me, it was a really big day, because that day I had talked to my mother about it. Um and I was like, Mommy, I can't do this anymore. I have to be honest with myself. You know, I think I'm gay and she's like, I've always known my mommy. She's she has always not like my goodness. I mean, when I first came out to her as a bisexual, when I was 14, she [00:05:00] she stole the thunder, actually was worked up to try to have the courage to tell her, and I finally confronted her. I was like Mum, I've got a girlfriend and she was like, Yeah, OK, and I was like, What is that all like? OK, so it's always been like that with her. She's been amazing, amazing, supportive woman. I'm so lucky to have her in my life. I mean, um, I I have a, uh Well, she's always been involved within the queer community. I mean, she's [00:05:30] a straight alliance kind of awesome person. Um, her brother, my uncle Johnny is gay. And, of course, so she went through that battle with him in the eighties, Um, through those times where it was illegal, and through those times, it was really scary to actually be gay. Um, I mean, I think we're a lot safer now. Safer? Not completely safe. But we've certainly come a long way. And, um, to have my mother, um, be so involved in the movement longer than I have been. Um, [00:06:00] And to have her support and her love is is is really amazing. Um, have the rest of your family been as receptive as your mother? Um, well, it's kind of funny, because when I told it was the same day that I told Mum and, um and I was really my You're my brother. Sorry. My younger brother and I was really upset. I was crying. I was crying, and, um, I just needed to go for a drive and get away from everything. And, um, my mom was like, Oh, I can't leave you alone. But I have to go inside because we were at this big event and, um, it was my grandmother's 70th birthday. [00:06:30] So had to come with me. And he is hungry. He was a hungry man. He was hungry all day, and, um, we were having this big feast, and we were just about to have it. So for him to come with me and he had no idea what was going on, he was like, I'm hungry. What's going on? So anyway, we drove around the beach and I was still really upset. And, um and he was like, Hey, you know, you can tell me and was probably about 16 15 at this point. And, um and I was like, Oh, bro, is that I'm [00:07:00] I'm gay and lesbian turns to me and he goes, Is that it? You made me miss dinner for that. Oh, I don't care about it. I thought you were pregnant because, of course, I was with my boyfriend. Uh, you know so And I had that reaction from him and my my older brother was more the tears, but of happiness and, you know, my family, my close family, the people around me were really supportive. Yeah. Have you come up to anyone and received any negative reactions? [00:07:30] I don't think so. Not that I can remember. And I haven't. No, I mean, people are surprised, I think. Why do you think that is? I don't know. For some reason, um, I think society has an image of what a lesbian is, and I think it's it's changed a lot now, but essentially, there's still a kind of, um, image that is more kind of boyish [00:08:00] or more kind of butch or more, you know, kind of like that, in a sense. Or you should only be into these kind of things. And, um, I don't necessarily fit in all the boxes, but I certainly take a lot of them. Um, I mean, when I first came out, I had a bit of a struggle feeling like I could be a part of the queer community. I mean, I tried to get to know more queer people. Um, but I found it a bit difficult because I think they kind of saw me and weren't necessarily convinced. [00:08:30] And so was it was that because you didn't fit the lesbian stereotype? I think so. I mean, I guess we've had experiences with people like that. So, you know, odds are chances are, um So when something different happens, you're a bit more cautious. I think so. I found it a little bit difficult at the beginning. Um, but then I was actually lucky enough to come into a wonderful group of people. Um, like, I was very, very fortunate. [00:09:00] I mean, I didn't really have many lesbian or gay friends, I I do. But I, I didn't think I had many, Um, and and then when I actually came to meet, like, almost a little society, um, it was really nice to actually fit into a group of people that you just felt connected with because I think being Maori, there are certain situations where you're on the [00:09:30] and you're really happy to be on the because you're with people that understand your understand your colour, your values, your principles, you can all relate. And, um, sometimes you can't find those situations in a normal environment. So when I'm on the and and I'm surrounded, you know, by or even It's just nice because we're living within the Maori, which is something that I can't live in all the time. [00:10:00] I mean, in my heart I do. And in my mind I certainly do. But, um within society within people, it's not seen as much. And I miss it. We miss it. I think Maori people really miss that bond because when you meet a Maori person and and you can connect and when you meet a queer Maori person, it takes it to another level in a sense, because you already feel alone being Maori and then you already feel alone being a lesbian Maori. So when you meet other [00:10:30] queer Maori in a sense, it makes you realise Oh my goodness, you're not alone. What can, um the queer community do to try and make our spaces safer for Maori people? Oh, well, I mean, in retrospect, Wellington is actually a really wonderful place for queer youth. Just queer in general, I think has a really lovely colour and, um, people really reach out to each other, which is really nice. And I think through that we've been able [00:11:00] to build up more safer communities. Um, for Maori in particular, I think, because in Maori, to my understanding, um, I studied Maori and philosophy at, and that was an amazing opportunity to learn about the the history and the, uh the principles and values of my people of Maori. And, um, you didn't really There wasn't really anything negative towards being Taku [00:11:30] or or gay or lesbian, Or can you just define that term? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, sure. Um, or is a very popular term used at the moment, uh, to represent Maori. And, um, the lovely thing about the word itself is it represents all of it, but encompasses it in one, which is a really beautiful thing, because it doesn't individualise or anything. Um, so it's a nice umbrella term. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's certainly easier to say [00:12:00] than LGBT, too. I mean, it's all of that and encompasses all of that. Um, which I think is beautiful. Uh, and yeah, so so in in the past, through my research, I haven't really observed any negativity. I mean, it was identified and people were aware, and that's why we have a name for it. Like if you think of a lot of Maori terms that are or a lot of terms that we've learned through English. Um, we turn them into Maori terms, but is [00:12:30] something that's come before that. So, um, that's something we've identified ourselves within our culture, and, you know, uh, were a part of the society. They were a part of the the the environment, and they, like everybody else, had their roles in society. Do you think that, um, homophobia, uh, kind of came to a with colonialism? Oh, I absolutely do. [00:13:00] However, um, I'm sure within certain aspects of any society, there is some kind of reason to create some kind of hate or negativity based on the fact of your relationship with someone. However, um, I do believe that broad homophobia has certainly been introduced from a Western society, particularly at a at a societal level. Um, it's interesting because I [00:13:30] think there are certain Maori who have the same views as I do, and there are other Maori who have been heavily influenced by Christianity. Um, and the views, uh, can somewhat be manipulated by what they learn from the Bible and what they know from their own. And so, uh, today you may have, uh, some iwi. That may not be as [00:14:00] friendly, um, because of that emergence. But, um, I generally think that Maori are pretty sweet. I mean, from my experience, however, you know there are certain aspects of all or families that that may not have that like myself. What do you think? Um, the other way around. So how do you think, uh, queer communities are accepting of or may or may not be accepting of Maori people? [00:14:30] Um, I've never really encountered any reason to actually think about that, which is pretty cool. Um, I mean, I've always been a pretty confident person, so I think generally when, um, meeting people, Um I guess I've never really felt anyone's feel. I mean, when I was younger, I mean, as a younger child, it was [00:15:00] It was different because when I was a younger child in in a, um, I, I didn't want to be a Maori. I mean, there was a lot more negativity than there is today. Why do you think that is? And I think it's not just me, I. I have spoken with many young Maori who have certainly grown up in urban areas that feel the same way. Um, because of the negativity and the stereotyping, it was a lot easier for us to relate to other cultures. And we wanted to be white. [00:15:30] We wanted to not be Maori. I mean, some of us have probably in the past called ourselves New Zealand Europeans to kind of escape their identity. And that's a That's a really bad thing, because, uh, no one should ever feel like that. No. One. And it's only as I've got older, where I've realised that those things have been brought out of fear and brought out of, uh, misunderstanding. And I feel very proud today to be Maori. It's it's a wonderful thing, but that's something that I believe all Maori should have. But they certainly don't, [00:16:00] um especially queer Maori. I mean, you being out on the is maybe a little bit different. Um, I mean, being out among your family is one thing, and then being out amongst your is another, but I don't think they're very different. I don't think people really care, you know, I think [00:16:30] they'd care more if you were speaking about something else. Um, what can we do to help try and instil that sense of pride you were talking about. And and younger people. Yeah, Um, it is really interesting because it's hard to think of a way to genuinely help everybody because everybody works differently. Um, I think a lot of us struggle with actually [00:17:00] first off being OK with ourselves because I think that first kind of self homophobia, I think I felt as as being gay, I have this internal self homophobia, which is very annoying. Um, and I think overcoming that is certainly a step closer to feeling more confident about who you are and feeling more confident about being out in public like I was extremely scared to be out in public. My goodness, I mean, for a really long time. [00:17:30] Um, some of my past relationships with with women were were nonexistent. So to say, we were best friends scenario, Um, we went out and it was tough. And, um, it's only really been the last few years after I met my my current partner, um, that I felt so much more comfortable about being out because she's pretty amazing. And she's like the opposite of me when it comes to something she just does not care about, um, [00:18:00] she doesn't know any different than to be herself and to be out. And I kind of came attached to her out to the gay world, you know, in a sense. And, uh, and now I'm way more comfortable about it. Being out being in a relationship that is out is so wonderful. It's like, don't worry about anything. What? What? Uh, you were talking before about when you were younger, um, feeling shame, which then developed into pride, right? Yeah. Um, [00:18:30] so that's why we were talking about how to help. Ok, sorry, I got a bit sidetracked. I mean, I guess it starts in the homes. I mean, you have to reach the parents. Um, what would have helped you? What would have helped me come out Not necessarily come out, but helped you come to terms with your identity as a Maori and as a queer person knowledge education. I mean, I learned to understand things that people were saying to me. I actually [00:19:00] started to see why they were saying them to me. Um, I started to understand more. I mean, you can only really get that with with knowledge and experience. Um, and I was lucky to kind of have those paths, but sometimes I didn't and I had to go out there and do it for myself. I mean, learning Maori was a really big adventure for me and to be able to bring that back to my family was even more important and I knew it was something that I wanted to do. But it was difficult. And I feel like [00:19:30] if you usually come against these barriers, barriers of embarrassment or shame, I mean until Maori, we call it and is about is like, shy shame. It's a quite an important thing because it reflects on how we are as a person and a lot of people feel the about being gay and it takes [00:20:00] a lot of work with yourself. And I was I was the things that helped me work was having my family like having my mom going to a school like Wellington High School where we had the the first, um, schools out group. I mean, it was Wellington High School. I mean, it was one of the most open and accepting places that a queer person could be in and at any time, well, for me. And that was really helpful because it allowed me to experiment. It allowed me to learn literally through experience. [00:20:30] And, um and so I was lucky for that. And I had people that supported me. I had friends, you know, My best friend didn't care that I dated girls. And we were best friends since we were 13. Like, that was a really huge thing, because I still didn't really understand it, but it it didn't affect our relationship one bit. But I'm really lucky for that. Um, do you think you have a friend like that? Sorry. [00:21:00] Sorry. Um, do you think you would have had a different experience Had you gone to a different school? Well, I guess. I mean, I was just lucky to have opportunities at Wellington High. I don't really know it any other way. I mean, and of course I was I was still I still dated guys like I still didn't really see much of an issue with it at that time because I was like, Yeah, been bisexual, man. It's all good. It's all safe. Um, it wasn't really an issue, which is really cool. I mean, [00:21:30] um, when I was 15, you know, and I had a girlfriend and we it was in, you know, New Year's. And we saw some of our teachers from school, and it was just like our teacher was there with her girlfriend. It was, you know, it was it was pretty normal for me, but I think it's probably a little bit different within Maori. I mean, I think just because we don't have a lot of opportunity to learn more about our culture, I mean, a lot of [00:22:00] us. I'm fortunate enough to have the opportunity and the connection to be able to do so. But there are a lot of Maori out there who who don't know their, um, they they don't know the and and they feel the, uh I don't know. I can't say this, but I would assume Feel that. And it's hard to be able to reach out and get help. And that's something that I personally want to work on with. Young Maori is helping them reconnect because I feel like by helping young [00:22:30] Maori reconnect to their at least having that opportunity to help them reconnect will also help them, uh, with other aspects of their life Because, um, once you, in my personal experience, feel connected, feel rooted, uh, to is a term that we use in that I learned from that talks about the connection or a place to stand a place to belong. And I feel through my and through my [00:23:00] that I have my place. I believe I have that connection. I practise that connection. It's a part of who I am. And because of that, I feel more, uh, and control to be able to do other things, to be able to, uh, to pursue other adventures that could potentially help others be able to have that same grounding. And I'm not saying that other people don't have that. Um, but I feel like a lot of our Maori people are disconnected [00:23:30] from te U and their and I would love absolutely love, um, to be able to be involved in or creating a way to help that and also, uh, as a way to help young, of course, queer Maori, because it's, um when you look at it being a minority of a minority, it's sometimes it's hard to give you energy to both of them and my focus at the moment is to try to do one to help another. So [00:24:00] I guess that's why at the moment I focus on the Maori that I'm working on. But inadvertently, by being gay and doing the Maori, I feel like I'm working at both of them at the same time. Do you feel like, um, that by being gay and by being Maori and going out and doing your life, you're constantly representing both of those groups? Yeah. I mean, my mom, my mom always says you [00:24:30] should be the change you want to see in the world. You know, if you want to make people believe that things could be different, you have to show them. And so I feel just by taking my opportunities and working and doing the the work that I do, um, it's putting me in a place where I'm able to actually, um, be in positions to help people or have effect on people. I mean, what, um, one of the papers or one of the [00:25:00] presentations are created as, uh, on the treaty, the Treaty of Waitangi. And and it's, uh, I created it a originally to help educate people about the history of A because I feel everyone has the opportunity to education. And, um, I want to be able to give people the knowledge so that they can make up their own minds. And that's what I take into anything I do like I want to be able to [00:25:30] give people the things that they may not be able to find. Um, that may be difficult for them to ask and allowing them to use that to, you know, to benefit them in whatever way it does. Could you remind me, um, the word that you used for had a similar definition to shame? Yeah, it's it's really interesting that term within, uh with my understanding because it [00:26:00] it talks about it. It's like a shame, but it's also reflective of who you are. I mean, it's something that I have in certain things, but I work closer to to to healing that because I feel like a lot of people probably have some kind of in the that they're always going to be battling with, um but how we how we act is what makes us different. You know, what we do is [00:26:30] what makes us different from that shame that we're feeling. And so I don't I don't really see myself as like when I do something, I don't think Oh, gosh. I'm representing the Maori people and the gay people. I just see me being me. I mean, I don't know how to be any different. And, um, I just hope that whatever I do and whatever I have done helps people more with what they want to do or who they want to be. Um, but yeah, being [00:27:00] within Maori and within, you know, I live, uh, in a, which is has a lot of different cultures and a lot of different people. And, you know, there are so many minorities, I mean, but really, if you just set up all the M, they end up being the majority. Um, if you could send out a message to all of those young people that are struggling with feelings of about their, um, sexualities [00:27:30] and or ethnicities, what would you say? Well, uh, what would I say? Well, you know, be brave, be bold and be courageous, because, I mean, it takes a long time, no doubt for us to truly understand who we are, and we go through spans of life where we start to get closer to an answer. Don't be afraid if it doesn't come to you straight away. [00:28:00] I mean your mind and your body, and your heart works at a different speed than anybody else. Don't expect it to be the same as anybody else and trust. I mean, trust your friends. You you need friends. Um, and you'll be surprised you'll be very surprised. And I know with certain people family will be harder. And I completely understand that, Um, [00:28:30] but your family will always love you no matter what. No matter what you know. Usually homophobia within parenting comes from a of their own and and be yourself. I mean, don't ever think it's wrong or bad to be yourself, because no matter how hard you fight it, it's always going to come out, and it's always going to be bigger and better than what you were trying to pretend to be. Um, I'm only saying [00:29:00] that from my experience, because I spend a lot of my time pretending to be something I'm not, and it takes a lot of energy and it's not worth it, um, and have fun and experiment, because that's important, because that certainly helps you learn. And, um yeah, that's about it. What about, um, something to say to all of the people out there who who aren't queer youth, Um, about how to support them. Oh, yeah, Be supportive. [00:29:30] Just just because people choose to identify differently doesn't mean that they are any different from any other person in any other body. And I guess if you're lucky enough to have people in your life like that where you can actually learn and get to know and be a part of that community, just let that person know that they're safe. Let that friend of yours [00:30:00] know that they can count on you. I mean, give them the opportunity to teach you take the opportunity to learn what it's like to live life from a different perspective, and then you'll start to understand that you're not really different. Um, we're not really different at all.
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