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I'm a gender queer. Pansexual demisexual. Do you want to elaborate a little bit about what those words mean for you? Um, I kind of describe my gender as during the day, or when I wake up, I will either feel more male or more female. Some days there are boob, uh, boobs days. Some days I do not have boobs. Some days I have boobs and a Penis. Or sometimes I have nothing at all. [00:00:30] Um, with my pansexual demisexuality I stuff, it's I don't really feel that much sexual attraction until I've become friends with someone. Most of the time, I have to have known someone for at least a few months before I actually open up like that. And although I'm not sexually attracted to every person I meet, I can look at them and go. I understand why people find you attractive as soon as they meet you. [00:01:00] Um, are there any other important parts of your identity or words that you would use to describe? I'm Maori. I'm a mum. I'm kink friendly. So how did you first start to figure out your I guess, sexuality and gender. Um, I think my sexuality stuff came up really early. I One of my earliest memories is playing with Barbie dolls and knowing that [00:01:30] sometimes Barbie wanted to marry Ken and sometimes Barbie wanted to marry another Barbie. And that was perfectly OK. My gender identity came in about high school when one of my very gay male friends would shout out Yeah, for the boys when I got up to speak in French and my brain went actually today, yes, it was surprising [00:02:00] and not so surprising for me. It had always been kind of the not tomboyish because I'm not so much of an outside person, but man spread not making much of an effort. It takes me five minutes to get dressed in the morning. Mhm. In fact, it takes more time for me to get dressed in the morning if I'm having a guy day than it does if I'm not. And so did you have a coming out process? [00:02:30] Um, I came out to a few of my close friends as being bisexual in about year seven because he came out at the same time, and we all just told we told our friends, and then, uh, I wasn't that private about it with my family, but I didn't talk about it because they're extreme [00:03:00] Christians, like extreme Christians. Uh, the rest of my school found out in year 10 when, a few weeks after I had broken up with a guy, I got sick and I wasn't at school. And one of the guys in the class was making a joke about how I was so heartbroken about breaking up with this guy that that was the reason I wasn't at school. And one of my friends turned around and said, Shut up! She has a girlfriend now, and [00:03:30] everything just dropped. It was great. I find it sad that I can only experience this third person because I think I would have liked to have seen the the facial expressions, especially in a Catholic school. So what kind of reactions did you get from your peers? Um, we had the ones who thought I was lying cos they'd only seen me date guys and then the the ones who were perfectly OK with it. And the ones who kind [00:04:00] of, I suppose, fetishized it went. Oh, Felix, Girls. Fay, will you kiss a girl in front of us? No, I do not like people for your amusement. And what was it like, kind of being out in a Catholic school. How was the school? Um, the school didn't really pay attention to the goings on with students. I do remember lots of things telling [00:04:30] us that it was wrong, but most of our teachers had got kind of more accepting the one teacher who it was during our health class. We asked why the Catholic Church thought that homosexuality was wrong and the one thing she said was, It's just the fact that they can't physically reproduce. I'm like, but there are so many people now. What's the point? [00:05:00] Um, so did you feel like there were all these messages Kind of telling you that you were wrong? Did that impact you or did you? Um, it made me want to stay more quiet about it, especially around my family. When I was about 17, my older sister got married and then some things came to light. And just after he went to prison, my auntie turned to me and said, Well, at least she didn't marry a woman [00:05:30] who that those are the times where I kind of go I am perfectly fine with who I am, but I don't feel comfortable with bringing other people like girlfriends and stuff into the situation, because I don't feel like you would be safe for them. Um, so do your family know about your sexuality and gender? Um, most of them do. Half of them refuse to accept [00:06:00] it because they'll always talk about me as though I am a girl. Or as though I'm straight. So when do you think you're going to get a boyfriend? Mhm. I don't know. I might get a boyfriend. I might get a girlfriend. I might get someone who identifies as neither Are there other people in your life who are [00:06:30] kind of accepting and understanding? A lot of my friends are very understanding. And a few of my family members, after hearing me come out like, Well, actually, I am also bisexual, like Good for you. It doesn't bother me that much. Um, do you feel as someone who's kind of like sexual and attracted to people from more than one gender? Or doesn't you know, put people into boxes like that or something? [00:07:00] Um, do you find a kind of different layer of, I guess invisibility and stereotypes and things like that that you probably wouldn't get if you identified as as monos. So it either straight or yes, um, or even I know that people view view bisexuals as being invisible. But some for some people, the fact that there is more than just a gender binary is confusing. So pansexual is completely [00:07:30] over their heads, Um, to people who have been learning about themselves and so have gone through that type of education, even just going as far as identifying mono sexual and bisexuals and then explaining pansexual to them and then going, Oh, yeah, that makes sense and not going. So you do what with pots you do what with cook with [00:08:00] which either leads to a sit down conversation about what I actually, how I actually am attracted to people or, Yeah, honey, you should see me write a walk. Sarcasm gets very useful at it after a full day of explaining my sexuality. And if it's something you have to do a lot, Sometimes [00:08:30] I explain my gender more because more often now, people don't ask about who you're attracted to. That when you have just met people and they go, they take you on the appearance that you've chosen that day. It's Oh, you're a really funny girl. Um, actually, I prefer person, or they then pronounce if you could [00:09:00] her face. She's so She's so great. Um, they they are so great. They thank you. Or the one time I wore an amazing suit like Who's your Asher? He's doing really well today. Well, part of my brain went, Hey, someone noticed that I've bound my chest and I'm looking manly. The other part went, and I'm not. [00:09:30] It's a hard place to sit in between. Yes, it's like feeling happy that they have acknowledged that you are that gender that day. But still knowing that inside you are not exactly that gender. It's like I've had friends ask if because I have a lot of time where I identify either as nothing or slightly male [00:10:00] just because I'm lazy and track pants are comfortable. Um, they will ask if I'm ever thinking of getting surgery or that type of thing. It's like I couldn't go through with the surgery because I will never identify as just that one gender for long enough for me. to feel comfortable in anybody. How did you, um, first become aware [00:10:30] of Kind of, I guess, words and identities like, um, gender fluid and pansexual and demisexual. It was some of it was discomfort within myself, ma, other queer people and trans people that or reading about trans people and going part of that makes sense. But it's not. The word I am looking [00:11:00] for led me to Google. Mhm. It's like, What am I? If sometimes I am the gender I was born with? It was a slow discovery because Google contains lots of things, and not all of them connect. It's like people who feel comfortable with some of the newer pronouns. I haven't found any that connect with me, [00:11:30] but I'm glad that they have. And is being Maori something that has, um, do you think that's been linked in or kind of intercepted with your sexuality and gender at all? Or I think the way I've expressed or connected the connection I have with my family because I am Maori means I talk. I like to talk to them a lot, and part of the whole [00:12:00] connection seems to have been lost When I try to talk about my sexuality or my gender identity, at least on part, at least with part of my family. The overly religious side and I feel like they have such set have had such set gender roles that they don't quite know where to place me [00:12:30] in their lives. Have you had any role models for any parts of your identity? Because I grew up in a small town. Even when I first got my nose pissed, I was looked at funny, bright coloured hair was a completely foreign concept to them and still is because it's either very young people or older couples. I have [00:13:00] recently met a friend who grew up in the same town I did, and while I wasn't aware of it before, they felt uncomfortable coming out as Trans. Now that they live in Wellington, they're more comfortable with themselves. And I think that some of the small town mindset makes you afraid to be yourself. Um, how old were you when you moved to Wellington? I moved to Wellington [00:13:30] when I was 20 to start university, and, um, I grew up on a tiny farm with, like, 20 houses around. So while a lot of my hand me down. My clothes were hand me downs from either my sisters or my aunt and uncle's sons. So dressing comfortably didn't matter until I was in a town where they [00:14:00] would say things like, Oh, she wants to be a boy or, um, being made fun of at primary school for not having Flasher clothes where the quality of the clothes didn't matter to me as long as I felt comfortable in them. And then as I got older, I would be bought more dresses and very girly things. So I felt like that was where I was supposed to put myself. When I got to [00:14:30] a school that had a school uniform, I was slightly more comfortable because there was no picking on for different clothing, but still knowing I wasn't feeling the right wearing the right uniform for what gender I was with the choices I had given, it would have been a lot of the men's shirts and skirts or pants [00:15:00] and the nice blouses, sometimes, because it's never firmly just one gender for me. Most of the time, it's like the few times I've worn a complete suit. I've worn high heels because some sometimes I need to feel feminine or wearing men's shirts with skirts with my with my binder and, um, [00:15:30] just finding a middle ground where I can say this is me in this moment, while it may not be me in a day or a week, it's how I feel now. So clothes is a really important thing with how you express your gender. I feel like clothing is one of the few ways I can express my gender, although there [00:16:00] are times when I look at everything I own and go, this is not good enough for what I feel like right now, like um, or trying to find clothing that doesn't make me fit within any part of a gender binary like there are times when I kind of feel like a Kindle. If it didn't have the abs and the pics [00:16:30] just plain and undefined, Um, and what's it been like moving from a small town to Wellington? Part of it has been overwhelming just because there are so many people. But all of the people I see are so comfortable within themselves, which gives me the confidence to be more of myself and While I do get [00:17:00] issues with my body the way it is I am, it's easier for me to put them to the back of my mind knowing that it's not what people would be focusing on. It's easier to not feel like you're being judged when there are so many people with different lives too busy to notice. I have quite dramatic curves from about the waist down, so [00:17:30] finding men's pants or even binding but still somehow looking slightly feminine can be an issue for me. But it's less of an issue because as long as I don't care, I feel like other people don't care. So much is having a sense of community and belonging something that's important to you. Yes, one of the first things I, one of the first groups I joined when I moved to Wellington, [00:18:00] was uni here. And just talking to other people about how they define themselves can be enlightening with how you define yourself, just whether it's something you identify with or something you can hear and go that is absolutely not me. So I know where I'm fitting. And before you moved to Wellington, did you, um, where you grew up. Was there any sense [00:18:30] of that community Was, um, similar people to you? Or did you find it somewhere else, like the Internet? Or, um, until I moved to Wellington, I was on dial up. So finding community on the Internet was very difficult for me. I had about three close friends at the high school I went to who were either non-binary queer or gay, and [00:19:00] they were kind of my people who, because they also had access to the Internet. They would tell me what they'd found that helped them identify who they were, and I could listen and acknowledge the parts of myself that were the same. Um, I think if I hadn't lived in such a conservative home, I probably would have [00:19:30] travelled down to Wellington more and met more people who are more like myself. So I would have found that sense of community earlier, which would have been better in some ways, but in But what I've found has been very good for me. What was it like? Um, being pregnant and being a, um, a parent as a gender fluid person, I got pregnant my first time having sex, [00:20:00] which was a big deal for me. Um, well, my first time having sex wasn't such a big deal. It was me wanting to find out what the big deal was about. But as I was pregnant, the changes in my body weren't as comfortable because I beforehand I was a be up. So that was fairly easy to hide [00:20:30] behind a tight shirt to B, more comfortable with my male side when I needed to be comfortable. But as my pregnancy went on, my boobs were growing, and looking at that part of myself would make me here feel kind of gross and just knowing that that wasn't what I needed and the fact that they'd just be full and heavy [00:21:00] and there would be no way to hide them because it would hurt to put pressure on them. It was very strange for me, Um, as he's as my son's got older, Um, it's been easier to be the way I feel about how I dress and that type of [00:21:30] thing. But it still leads to some awkward questions as he's growing up, because my family has been very firm in telling him he's a boy, although if he's not a boy, all the all the best to him. And I think the fact that he has told Good Boy so often has made him develop a gender binary in his mind. So he will come up to [00:22:00] me and go Mummy, if I'm a boy, are you a girl? And trying to answer that in a way that makes sense to a three year old is kind of hard just knowing that because he's got this binary in his head now from spending so much time around a conservative family that won't acknowledge more than a binary or the fact [00:22:30] that people don't identify the way they were born may make things more difficult to him. But I will feel because I know about myself. I will feel more comfortable. I do, um, explaining it to him as he gets older. I'm just not sure how to tell a three year old that no Mummy's not a boy or a girl, because it leads to the questions that are What are you then, Mummy? And he can't quite see [00:23:00] how it would work. Do you feel a sense of kind of invisibility? Or, I guess, maybe isolation when people in, I guess queer circles find out that you're a parent. Like, do they find that as a surprise in some ways, and even in in both the queer circles and outside the queer circles. When my family found out I was pregnant, they told me, Oh, so this means you won't like girls anymore. [00:23:30] Um, I have been involved with one Penis. That does not mean I only want to be involved with Penis, um, and even made demisexuality leading. Or sometimes it's even closer to asexuality them. Hearing me define how I feel about [00:24:00] sexual encounters in general and then hearing that I have a child, I get confrontations. That would be either. But you've had sex because they can't seem to understand that just because I can't physically get past that with some people or most people that I wouldn't have done it before, or the people [00:24:30] who assume that because pansexual means I have the ability to be attracted to it, everyone doesn't correspond with the fact that I won't want to physically be involved with someone and then going after finally making that connection. Hearing that I have a child confuses them. What do you think are some of the, um, biggest kind of challenges and issues facing, um, maybe yourself [00:25:00] or maybe just generally in the kind of care in terms communities. That is a big question. There are. There are and I think will be always people who refuse to accept the fact that people are not the way they want them to be, whether that be in terms of sexuality or gender. There will be family or friends or strangers [00:25:30] on the street who will see you and either not accept or out of spite purposefully misgender or make fun of you for who you are or who you appear to be. That humanity is really the problem there. But, um, while it may get [00:26:00] easier as the generations go on to be more more accepting about certain parts of people, they will always find something new or even something old that they don't like. Um, what advice would you give to a younger you or or someone a young person kind of going through some of the same struggles you've been through? [00:26:30] Don't be afraid to be who you are, no matter what religion or what your family says. There are people who accept you for who you are and for who you love. It's like the full version of the quote. Blood is thicker than water. People usually take that to mean your family is most important. It the full quote is the blood of the covenant is thicker [00:27:00] than the water of the womb, which means the people you choose to have in your life will be more important than those who will tell you that that you are wrong. Nothing that you think of as an insecurity was an insecurity until a family member or a close loved one tells you that they don't like it. And what's your favourite thing about being a young sexual [00:27:30] homosexual, um, gender fluid person in New Zealand, finding new ways to be myself and be around other people who are happy about who they love and who they are.
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