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How do you describe your identity? Um, I'm running with non binary guys. That's what I'm running with at the moment. What does that mean to you? Well, I still pretty much identify as a guy, but like all I be like, it basically comes down to I don't like female pronouns at all. It just doesn't fit with me at all, and it just feels wrong. But then, like also like, I don't want to be, like, conform to what a guy has to wear, either. So I want to be like a feminine [00:00:30] guy or if I want to wear skirts and I want to do that and still be a guy. But yeah, what was your kind of journey to figuring out like that? I guess it's the whole cliche thing when you're younger, but like I feel like I probably had, like, inklings and like, just over time, like more exposure exposure as I got older and like realising. Actually, there's queer people, and there's like it's not just, you know, it's not just something that's on TV and, like, uh, it's [00:01:00] like there's like a lot of people who are actually queer and trans and like I didn't realise that. And, like, started going to schools out. And, like I had a friend who was queer. Who, Um, I met at, um, youth infusion, and they got me going to schools out and like, it kind of took me a while to come to terms or, like, just figure out. Actually, I might not identify as this. Um um what was it like doing that while you were at school? Um, [00:01:30] it was really difficult. I mean, you're dealing with high school stuff. I mean, it's a lot easier now that you're at uni, because it's no one really cares. But in high school, it's like everyone knows who you are. And you've grown up with them kind of along like those, like, you've gone through all this stuff together. So everyone kind of knows and yeah, I just feel like you didn't have any privacy. Hm. Ok, um, what people phobic to you at all? Um [00:02:00] I mean, um, in high school, I think I just thought I was a lesbian, like, just going with the stereotypes. I mean, like, after I shaved my head, I didn't keep it long again. Like that was one of the probably the first steps I did, and, like I like, started wearing trousers and stuff. And, um, there might have been stuff going on behind my back, but not that I heard of them. Um, was it frustrating kind of thing, like a lesbian [00:02:30] when that wasn't how you identify? Yeah, it was. And I was also annoying because I had, like, another queer guy at my school who like, instead of asking me because I he was in my year group and I knew him, he asked. My best friend, like you know, is blah, blah, blah, a lesbian. And I'm just I was really confused because I'm like, you could ask me rather than asking from my friend. How's your family been? Um, I think it's been hard for them. I haven't actually come out to them [00:03:00] yet. I think Mum kind of has an idea. I mean, they always kind of joke around like, Oh, you look like such a boy bla bla bla bla. I think they think it's more along the lesbian lines as well, or like I'm queer. But like I think they also think it might be like I think they're realising now it's not a phase, and I think Mum's gotten a lot better about it because she just wants me to be happy. But from what I've heard from my sister, she also thinks because I'm just feeling more masculine, that it's like the It's what's making me depressed and stuff [00:03:30] That's so strange, I don't know, Like I heard from her a while ago. This was a couple of years, like she still thought mental illness was like a disease like that's how bad it was. Um, so do they use you like old names? And I'm hoping to come out to them eventually. Well, I'm moving out soon, and that should kickstart a lot of things, and I'm gonna start hormones. So yeah, and [00:04:00] how's the process to starting hormones been? I haven't started yet, but I'm starting next month of February, which is exciting. So I'm really excited. So I'm excited for my voice to drop, and I'll feel like I'll pass more or like, I'll feel like I won't get misgender as much. And I'm really excited that, like about the body changes and so like, I'll get more like a shapely drawer and stuff, so I think that'll be exciting. And what was the process to get approved to go on? Hormones likely? Um, [00:04:30] I had to wait ages for the Endo appointment, and the appointment was pretty cool. It was lovely. And like he and like, it was kind of reassuring that at the end he was just like, I don't care how masculine or feminine you look at the end of it, just as long as you're happy. And that meant a lot. You know, that must feel like kind of big thing to do with, like, your parents knowing, does it? Yeah. I mean, I feel like I feel conflicted in a sense, because, like, recently, my [00:05:00] relationship with my mom's gotten a lot better and I don't want to feel like a wrench in it kind of a thing. But then I feel like I guess I kind of feel like a kid. Still like Like, I feel like I need their permission. But I also know I don't just because I know it's what I need to do. Like my siblings are like super supportive and like so they know. So, yeah, it sounds like your parents probably have an inkling. I think it's like a journey to accepting it. Yeah, Yeah. I don't know what Dad thinks. He doesn't actually say anything at all. But Mum, [00:05:30] Mum's been good. I mean, she's we're compromising at the moment. Do you remember kind of any, like, messages from from your family or society or the media or anything about kind of friends, people before or like, you got involved in the community? Like, I think it was really heteronormative. So, like, it was just assumed you're a hetero and like, my parents were always like, you're gonna marry a guy. One day you're gonna have kids and you're gonna have the whole whole apple pie life [00:06:00] kind of the thing. And, like, I mean, when they're dressing like, you know, when you're younger, it's always just kind of kind of feminine stuff. And like, I feel like the more like I try to change like it's kind of weird because of the Asian parents. I feel like they kind of mould you into this thing that they want, and they kind of push all their hopes and dreams on you kind of the thing. Like I've talked to other friends about and they kind of agree. But I feel like Mum just kind of wanted us to be like what she was. And so I feel like I'm probably a constant disappointment to her. [00:06:30] Um, whereabouts in Asia are your family from, Um, I think Mum's from like Guangzhou and Dad was from Vietnam or like he still identifies as Chinese rather than Vietnamese, even though you can speak Vietnamese like they're more Chinese than Vietnamese. Have you had any kind of role models or, um, people in the media or, um, anyone who are as that you can relate to? In that way, [00:07:00] it's been difficult in that sense, just like even within the queer community, like, I didn't really know anyone who was like Asian or pretty much not European like everyone I saw, like, even in like, media was like. But like I have a couple of role models, even though they're not queer and stuff like I really like And he's like O chow. He's cool and, like he does a lot of cosplayers, and he's like seems to be exploring his whole gender and stuff. So he like cosplay a, um Ariel, the other day, like, you know, from the Little Mermaid. [00:07:30] And that was really cute. I also really like Lucy Lo. That would be awesome. Cool. So, in terms of, like, media representation, um, have you ever kind of seen any parts of your identity? Like reflected? Like, Mm. I can't really say I have, But like with orange is the new black. It's been really good for representation and, like, it's really good. Like, I don't really see much trans representation that isn't seen as [00:08:00] like it isn't quite accurate. Like, I mean, orange is the new Black is an elementary as a trans woman as well, But, like, I just feel like most of the time, like people play it off as, like, a guy just cross dressing or something, you know? Yeah. And have you seen any kind of trans masculine representation? I don't I can't say I really have. And like the ones that I have heard about seem to be like they end up dying or something. Um, [00:08:30] what would you like to see? More of in the media, I guess. More like a lot of positive messages. And, like you can be trans and have a normal life kind of the thing. It's not like it's gonna like. I know there's gonna be bad. And there is hate crimes and stuff that I also need to know that it can be good. Like, I think that's really hard just knowing that you can, like, live as Trans and you know, like you don't want to live in fear of who like being who you are every day. [00:09:00] Was it hard for you when you were kind of, um, starting to realise that you train coming out because there weren't so many like role models or, yeah, people like you. I think I was quite scared, to be honest. And I mean, like, most of the stuff I hear about Trans people like in the like in the News and stuff is like blah, blah, blah has been murdered or a hate crime, and it's just like, Well, this is not optimistic or hopeful. [00:09:30] Yeah, but I think it's gotten better in recent years. I mean, there's a lot more representation in, like the media and TV shows, and I like I'm starting to feel a bit more hopeful, but like we definitely need more trans representation and just queer as well. And like, Oh, my God. Like non sexualized lesbians. Like What do you mean by that? Uh, just, uh, sometimes. Like when? Uh uh, just, uh, some TV [00:10:00] shows so bad. Um, so do you see yourself as a minority within the minority of the community? A little bit like, I mean, I didn't really know anyone else who was Trans That wasn't European and like so I couldn't talk to them about the cultural background of stuff like, I was really interested about it. And like, I met someone who was a bit older than me, and he was really [00:10:30] lovely and like it was really good because we got to, like, have a good chat about our cultural backgrounds and stuff because I feel like that's really important. Just because if you're not within kind of the ethnic group, you won't you don't You can't understand completely because you didn't grow up in that environment. And you don't have that background knowledge of, like, the traditions and stuff which are, like, ingrained in you kind of a thing. So do you think, um, like, with your family compared to, um, like a European family. It's, um there's a lot more of that kind of like [00:11:00] pressure and expectation that you're gonna, like, marry a man and all that kind of stuff. Um, I think it's kind of equal in that sense, but I feel like just within the Asian community, it's a lot like there's a whole lot of stuff about like like Asian parents, like have, like this thing where they have, like, a reputation or something or they have a front and they have to make sure everything's OK. So, like, I'm pretty sure, I'm sure most European families are also like, you know, don't talk like they might keep things harsh, harsh, But I feel like [00:11:30] in the Asian community, it's very harsh, harsh, like it's like it's kind of like Taboo, like mental illness and being queer and trans and all that stuff like it's just not talked about. And if it does happen, they just kind of have this deniability kind of a thing where they're like Nope, nope. Nope. Nope, nope. Nope. I can't see this. No, nope. Still refers to the person as the name and like, ignores their partner or whatever. And like just even without, like, I know with my grandma on my dad's side. Like even [00:12:00] when my cousin, like she was really close to her. But when she started dating like a European guy, they kind of had, like, this distance group between them. So, like, I guess it's kind of that as well. So it probably would have been really helpful if you'd had more kind of, um, like, quarantine Asian people in your life when you were coming out. I think so because it kind of made me feel like a bit like an alien, because I'm like, I don't like it just made me feel odd out kind of thing, not knowing anyone or like seeing anyone like it was all like, European people. [00:12:30] And, like, I just yeah, representation is important. So this, um, going on to schools out and kind of finding that, um, that community, even though it probably wasn't ideal, was that still, um, helpful? I think so. Yeah. It was good. Like I learned more in that time, I think, and it was really good and just meeting other people in the community and, like just having people understand where you're coming from, is good. Like most of my friends wouldn't understand. Exactly. [00:13:00] Or like, they wouldn't. Yeah, they just wouldn't know. Like the thought process and stuff. Yeah. Is it so important to you to have that kind of effect to the community? I think so, Yeah. I mean, I think I miss it sometimes because sometimes when I'm with my friends like, they won't completely understand what I'm going through, but they'll they'll definitely try to be supportive. But I think it would be nice to get you involved with the community. And have you been [00:13:30] part of? I mean, kind of online communities much or is the Internet being something that's on social media? Helps you kind of at all in your journey? Um, probably a little bit. Tumbler is really good. It's been helpful. Oh, like it helped me realise I was OK and stuff and just meeting like just seeing, Like, other teens and stuff. They were, like, trans and queer as well, like, and seeing their stories was nice, you know, like just like even on a global [00:14:00] scale. What do you think are some of the most important issues? Kind of, um, that you face or that you think our community faces. Personally, I feel like I just kind of struggle with the bathroom issue like and sometimes just the questions I get asked like even if they mean well or whatever. Like sometimes I'm not completely comfortable. It just kind of depends what space I'm in. Um, I think definitely [00:14:30] more education for like everyone. Like Like, I think it'll be easier sometimes if there was just like a mini pamphlet of, like, everything you need to know. And then if someone just asked you about it, you just whip it out So you don't have to educate every person you meet because I got really tired of doing that because it just at one point it was like every person I've met, it's like I have to come out and I have to explain everything. And I was just like that. And it just gets to this point where I just kind of get really tired and just yeah, [00:15:00] stopped meeting new people for a while. Hm. And that's just the expectation that you but you owe them that. Hey, like they feel they feel like you have to tell them that information that it is, um, I haven't had any really gross questions about, like, surgery and stuff, which is nice. Um, it is annoying when you're trying to, like, tell someone about, like, like, about yourself and how you identify and stuff. And they're like, what? Or like [00:15:30] they, like, deny it. And it's just like, I don't understand. This is me. Um, I don't think you know myself better than I do at the start. Um, you were talking about kind of how, like, when you're kind of identifying as like, um, like a non-binary man, Um, like, about how you want to still be able to, like, express yourself in, like, feminine ways as a man. Yeah. Um, is is that something that you see reflected? I guess in society like that, it's OK [00:16:00] to be like a feminine man. No, not much. But like, there's this one person who, um I follow it, I think they're in America. I think they're Alexander, but they're really cool. And they're just They started this project called Gender Flux, I think, and so it's just been kind of like, you know, going outside the tradition, like what society thinks is, like, normal or like, you know, And so like it's been cool. They did like a whole project on it, and that was [00:16:30] it was good to see. And sometimes I feel like even within the community and sometimes, like if you're Trans, you have to be masculine and you know, like it's still that expectation and you wouldn't expect it from the community. But I still kind of feel that pressure. Sometimes if you're gonna be Trans, you have to be a like you have to be, like, really feminine or really masculine. You can't be a mix or whatever. If you could give a message to, um I guess kind of like a younger self or like um, another, like [00:17:00] young, kind of trans Mexican Asian person. What would you say to them? They're kind of struggling in their teens. I guess I'd reassure them that it's OK. It's normal that you feel this way and it's OK if you think you are well, not Trans. I mean, it's OK. You can express your gender however you want, and I mean, I've been told this a lot recently. Bottom line, your parents will still see you as their child, and they'll still love you at the end of the day, and you [00:17:30] are separate from your parent, and you just gotta do what's good for you and what makes you happy. In the end, do you want to tell me a little bit more about what it's like? Um, being clean at uni? Um, being trans at uni has been quite. It's been easier than at high school, because in high school in my last year, it was only when I really decided to do a lot of changes and, like a few teachers like, I came out to one of my teachers and she was on our senior dean, and she she'd occasionally call me Charlie, which was great [00:18:00] and like at uni, you can shut down your preferred name. But I feel a bit disappointed with Vic just because I feel like Auckland has set the standard. Now what have I done? Well, they're paying for their trans students to get their names and like passports and everything legally changed because they know that some students are not financially able to, and they're also trying to protect their trans students because they are getting bullied and stuff like that which I thought was really good. But I'm pretty sure Vic doesn't have bullying and stuff. But I just [00:18:30] feel like they could do more in terms of the name changes just because I've checked my preferred name on the role and they said it should be popping up. But from my experience last year, it didn't pop up at all, and I still had to manually sign my preferred name on every tutorial and lecture. Or I'd have to go up to the lecturer and tell them if I like. If it was one of those marked role classes and like, um, I kind of talked to them earlier this year about it and they said, Well, it should be popping up on the role. So I went to see [00:19:00] enrollment about it, and they can't really do much. And I just feel kind of disappointed because it still seems I have to go up to my lecturers at the end and tell them about it. And I feel like there's no point in doing that. If I have my preferred name there, like, what's the point in it at all? Yeah, that's not really good enough. No, and when I asked, I said, Well, we kind of need you to do something about it as well, like change your name and not everyone's financially able But I think, Well, I have a job at the moment, [00:19:30] so I think I should be able to. But just for other students that aren't it's just kind of hard, I guess. Like I mean Auckland's backing up their students, so I don't see why isn't hopefully it will set that kind of another university. Yeah, there's a lot of like financial barriers for people. Yeah, I think Auckland did like it set the bar, but they also took like, a big, big step. And it's important [00:20:00] because, I mean, it sets an example to the rest of the country kind of the thing. So it's important that, like, you know, even at uni, it's being recognised like I mean, it means colleges like high schools can, like, set the bar as well like that and do more. They can't just be like, Well, we can't do anything about it and kind of be apathetic. I mean, if a university can do this, I don't see why high school can't protect like their birth name and stuff like that and just yeah, it [00:20:30] just feels like more could be done before you mentioned like bathrooms. Bathroom. Sorry. Is something you struggle with that is that kind of an issue at uni or is that I still get really nervous going to the bathrooms. And when I first went to uni like an orientation week, I didn't I would have to use one of the bathrooms until I finally asked one of the people at the Queer Booth And they're like, Oh, we should have some gender neutral ones. Like they didn't have any signs. It was just toilets, um, around. But there aren't that many. Like I know [00:21:00] in the older buildings, it's just female and male. But, you know, the rest of the time I think there are some, but they still have mostly female and male. And are there many other friends, like students or like staff who were kind of out? Or is there like, a community thing? Um, I wasn't really, really involved with the uni activities this last year. Um, I know one of the people, [00:21:30] um, can't remember, but she was like the head of something the magazine or something was openly queer, and that was really cool. I'm pretty sure everyone's really openly queer and trans, or like, probably queer at uni like it's not a problem. Um, I don't know any lecturers that are, but yeah, I think everyone's quite open about who they are, which is nice. Um, [00:22:00] what are your dreams for your future? Um, I've only really gotten as far as moving out, Probably getting some more tattoos. I'm coming out to my parents at some point, but I'm definitely looking forward to the journey of hormones. And I'm thinking of doing like, a little, I don't know, maybe a blog and seeing how I go about it as I transition, So yeah, OK, I guess. Like, just another thing that kind of worried me about being Trans was like [00:22:30] I mean, like potential. Like, if I wanted to be in a relationship, would that be really complicated? Um, I think I've just gone to the stage where if they like me, they like me as who I am, and if they don't? Well, too bad, and they're missing out or something like that, but yeah. Um, do you mean it? be complicated in terms of, um, like, having to come out? I think so, Yeah. Or, um, because I was seeing someone while I was in the stages of transitioning, [00:23:00] and they weren't sure about what they'd do if I went on hormones. And that was kind of complicated. And there was all these other stuff going on at the time, but, yeah, it didn't work out, so I don't know. I just think it'd be complicated, but I think it'll be OK. Are you interested in, like, having family, or like getting married or any of that kind of stuff? Um, I don't really see myself settling down. Um, I do not like kids. I do not want kids. [00:23:30] Um, if my partner, if I had a partner wanted kids, um, I'd have to have a very deep, long conversation with them and see how it goes. And yeah, I I'd have to think about it. It wouldn't be one of those, even. Yeah, I'm not sure about getting married either. Um, did the marriage equality bill passing have any meaning or effect to you? Um, I definitely, [00:24:00] um, appreciated that it passed. It was important, like, uh, it was like one of the milestones to letting queer people in New Zealand realise it's OK. It's accepted. And like I think it's exciting that we're like the first in the Pacific region to legalise, um, marriage, equality, and I think that's really important. What changes would you like to see? Um, I guess more trans awareness and more stuff done about that. [00:24:30] I mean, I'm I'm still trying to figure out all the stuff, like how to change my name legally, and that's kind of complicated, but I think I'm just dumb. So but it would be good if there was more if that stuff, you know, if it wasn't like something we had to go and like, figure out ourselves. I mean, it was like, really easy. Um, like it's like if there was, like, a little sub section in the website like, if you are wondering your legal like if it's like your legal [00:25:00] writers, um blah, blah, blah, blah and stuff like that. I mean, if it was like a subsection like that, it'd be helpful, like, yeah, on what to do if we're being discriminated against and stuff just kind of like an easy guide how to That'd be cool. Yeah, what's your favourite thing about being a young trans person in New Zealand? Um, in the young aspect. I mean, everything's kind of exciting and new. Studying [00:25:30] is quite cool, and the people I've met has been amazing. Like it, you know, young and trans. Um, yeah, it's been good meeting other people my age that are transitioning or have transitioned and like it like it's it's nice to know you're not the only one kind of the same and like, it's not just it's it means something when they're within your age group because you can relate to them and stuff. I mean, probably the older people are the bias and stuff, but it's yeah, it's good [00:26:00] to have other people your age.
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