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I'd say that I identify as a female to male trans guy, not necessarily a transgender male or trans man, but just somewhere near towards the male side of the spectrum of gender. Um, and I'm also I'm attracted to guys, but I'm pretty asexuals so in terms of gender and sexuality, that's how. Yeah, that's how I identify. [00:00:30] Um, do you want to elaborate a bit more on how you identify as a trans guy, but not necessarily like a trans man or a trans man? Yeah, well, I think towards the start of my transition as I was figuring out my gender identity, it was I was quite binary in the way I looked at things. As you know, society sort of is, um and so I had this image. I wanted to conform to the male side of things because I was definitely not female, and I didn't really realise there was a great area that you could be in. And [00:01:00] so I guess I sort of went quite extreme, and I went super masculine and tried that out. And just in terms of gender expression and also the feeling that I have my internal sense of gender. It just was not. It was not 100% male. And so now I'm figuring out that, I mean, for the purpose of, like, people's understanding, I just say I'm male because yeah, um, but I'd say maybe 97% [00:01:30] between 90 98%. Um, male. So you prefer kind of identity as a trans guy rather than, um, I guess maybe some people would use words like kind of gender, queer or fluid or things like that. You feel more trans masculine, I guess. Yeah. I wouldn't say that, I. I wouldn't call myself non-binary. Um because I think there is a sense of I want to be perceived as as a male, I guess. Um, [00:02:00] but in terms of gender expression, I'm now figuring out, you know, that I can, because I'm I'm pretty feminine. I think I feel quite feminine in my gender expression. So yeah, it's it's interesting now that I'm more solid in my identity, how I can start to play with my expression. Yeah. Um how do you express that? Well, I guess I just I I wear whatever I want. I, um I sometimes feel like [00:02:30] especially when I'm around a lot of, um cisgender guys and even girls as well. That sort of binary setting, where transgender is sort of an invisible concept. I feel like I have to, um, you know, dress more manly or wear boring, dull clothes, but then it's sort of like a cycle. Then I realise, hang on, this is not me. I want to wear whatever I want to wear. And so I I wear more. It's [00:03:00] it's stupid that we have to think of it as gendered, but, like, you know, jewellery and and things that might be considered more feminine in our society. Um, in terms of So that's just in terms of my clothes, I guess. In terms of my mannerisms, Um, I speak off my hands. I don't know just things that people to me, it's gone. It's not really gendered, um, but to other people it is. And so I guess it's a matter of finding the balance between how I want [00:03:30] to be perceived and and how I feel inside. Yeah. So when did you first start? Um, figuring out your tinder, uh, would have been a couple of years ago. So in 2000 and 12, I think about in the middle of the year. I just had this. I remember writing. I was overseas, and I was sort of feeling a bit alone because I couldn't really talk to anyone about it. So I wrote down like, I hate [00:04:00] being a girl. Um, the the the This is stupid. And I just remember feeling looking in the mirror and feeling so ashamed of myself for feeling that way. So I suppressed that for a little bit for maybe six months or so. And then one day I just came out to a teacher and went uphill from there. Um, I found lots of resources and, like he he helped me. [00:04:30] Um, you know, get connected with people, which was great. And so from then on, I just started figuring out that I was transgender and and that this was a thing that I could do. And there were so many options out there, and I could be who I wanted to be, so that was cool. Cool. How did you know that it was ok to come out to that teacher? Or maybe you didn't. Uh well, he is part of the LGBT community himself and outwardly expresses that. [00:05:00] And I guess I just he was someone I could trust. And, um, at the time, it was sort of a spur of the moment thing. It was absolutely nothing planned. I was just It was almost like I. I remember I sat down and I was like, You know, I hate being a girl, and he's like, That's really interesting. I sort of, um because he had just written an article the day before or something about, um, someone in my position from a parents' perspective. Um, so he gave me the article, and that was really interesting. And that also helped [00:05:30] me coming out to my parents later on. So yeah, and it was great to have someone in my school, um, that I could talk to. And if things were difficult with, say, people not respecting my pronouns and report writing and stuff like that, he sort of had my back and and that was really, really important to have cool. And how did your parents and family take it overall? Like, totally, positively, Which is I'm so lucky [00:06:00] because I hear so many stories about disown and homelessness within the trans community that I'm really. I guess I'm just totally grateful that my sisters and my parents and my wider family and my grandma, which is amazing because usually the older generation have a hard time, but she embraces it. Um, I think I can't say that it was like, if, you know, I didn't tell them I'm transgender, and they're like, OK, great. You [00:06:30] know, it's a total learning process for everyone, and it's a transition for everyone. And so, you know, we worked through it and I educated helped them, you know, figure out what their role and and my transition was. And but yeah, it took time. It does. It does take time. Um, which is something I've learned to deal with along the way, but yeah, yeah, it's good. Um, And how about your peers in the school? Aside [00:07:00] from that teacher, my friends? Yeah. Awesome. They're a couple. I have to say that I sort of I don't want to say avoided, but we weren't They weren't my close friends. It's just people that I knew who Maybe I didn't. I was just a bit passive and didn't even bother explaining my situation. So I just didn't keep connecting with them. Um, but no one's really reacted too negatively. [00:07:30] Um, pronouns obviously take, you know, name take a while to adjust. Um, I do sometimes bump into people who I used to hang out with, and they don't know what's going on. So that's there are awkward moments in that, definitely. But my closest friends are amazing, bigger supporters. Um, and were you the kind of only, um, trans person you knew at your school or, um, there was from what I know, there was me and, [00:08:00] uh, another FTM Trans guy who was a year below me. Um, so we sort of went we It was good to have someone else to sort of battle the school's, um, system with, which was I mean, we had very different perspectives on the way that our school was, um, treating us, I guess, Or like going about, you know, changing things. Um, I guess he was more, um I don't know. He was more. [00:08:30] He was more assertive and got things done. And I was a bit more like taking a step back and being like, OK, you know, you do. You do whatever you can in your power, but yeah, he was like, No, we need to get things changed. I wish I can be more like that. I wish I could be more sort of powerful, but it's not really in my nature to do that. Um, but yeah, the school was took its time, Um, and it's still taking its time. But to be honest, relatively speaking, [00:09:00] in the Wellington region, Yeah, like, super. They were willing to make the changes, even if it did take a bit of time, which I think and they were willing to learn, even if you know, the principal didn't get it quite right all the time. Or that, you know, these these were new concepts to them. And but we, um, through our QS a, we were allowed our straight alliance. Uh, we were allowed to speak to the staff about what we wanted to see change at our school, and [00:09:30] that was a great opportunity, um, to educate people. So what were some of the changes that you were kind of asking the school to make? Uh, the big one was, um, how our genders and pronouns were recorded within the school system. So on our official records and also reports, I guess, um, we also introduced a trans policy, which I guess was just making It was just [00:10:00] to have an official document to to look back on and say This is how this is how these people should be treated. And, um, if there were any, you know, there was any confusion for for future, um, students that they had something to look on. Uh, we we just wanted to create an awareness as well, and more than just an acceptance. Just, um But we we weren't saying this is [00:10:30] we We just wanted to be we We wanted to eradicate casual homophobia and transphobia that sort of thing just within, just getting other students and teachers aware about how what they were saying. Because if they're not part of the community that, you know, they don't know that using the word gay is an insult as an example, um is is harmful. And it's harmful in other ways. Then, Yeah, that that they may think [00:11:00] so. Just stuff like that. Yeah, I think that's about it. We had a day for the day of silence. Um, when I think that was probably our biggest achievement with the with the wall. We had a wall and we got everyone to write up things. And I think people we we wrote read messages on there that I don't think people would have had the courage to maybe otherwise write. So that was really that was quite powerful. I think that had an effect on our school. Do [00:11:30] you want to tell me a little bit more about what the day of silence is? Yeah, well, the day of silence is now. It's an internationally recognised day, but in New Zealand, it's It's a day where well, everywhere it's a day where people go silent so they don't speak or how whatever way they want to show their silence to, I guess being in solidarity with people in the LGBT Q community that, uh, feel voiceless and [00:12:00] don't have access to to be able to be themselves, express themselves or say what they want. Um, and so, yeah, stay where we show it physically by taping our mouths shut, um, to show the silence to represent the silence that people face in that community. And I guess by doing that, raising awareness of the struggles that people, the minorities in the LGBT community. Well, everyone in that [00:12:30] community face. Yeah. And can you remember some of those messages that people wrote on the wall? Yeah, there were. There were a range. Really? There were quite a few of, you know, um, male female boxers. And why must I take one? Um, there were more humorous ones. There were ones just about loving yourself, no matter what. You know, just more, general, I guess statements that apply to everyone, but that's cool. Um, someone [00:13:00] wrote a really moving story about their grandfather. I think it was their grandfather and and his bit of his story about how as a gay man, I guess, Um what was the impact? Do you think of that day in your school as well as creating a sort of awareness like, Oh, these people exist? Um, we we there was sort of a unity in our school that I think they hadn't really [00:13:30] been displayed before in that way, because, I mean, you can show school spirit in other ways, but there was some sort of it. Just it was a day where at least for one day, you could feel like, you know, you could walk around and just be for once, and it would be amazing if that can, that can continue. Um, and that can just become a normal thing. But I hope that people took away from it that [00:14:00] now they know about this about this the LGBT Q community a little bit more at least. And that we're just humans. Yeah, because there is so much alienation and other going on with that that we're not normal. And but we are OK, what is normal? Um, yeah, I don't know. And Alex got to be [00:14:30] on breakfast TV talking about it with me. How was it? That was a highlight. That was Every time I go past the street, I look up and that's That's where we, um, got interviewed. Yeah, that was also a great experience. And just seeing people sharing that and being like, Look, you're on TV. It's fun to remember that out of the archives. Um, so you also don't identify as asexuals? [00:15:00] Yeah. I mean, I don't I've never really like putting a label on my sexuality, partly because I'm still figuring it all out. Um, but I would say that I'm, I've sort of putting the feelings together from the last few years. It sort of matches up to how I feel. Being as sexual would be, um, just not having any desire, apart from just more romantic [00:15:30] attraction, not having any inclination. You know, nothing. Nothing more than just being attracted to a person. But I It's interesting because people make, you know, living in a world where almost everything is so sexualized, especially in the media. Yeah, it's it's interesting, sort of feeling. It sort of makes you feel like a bit of an outsider, because you're not really you don't get what people are talking about I. I personally [00:16:00] don't get what people are talking about when they and they talk about this, you know, sex like But in saying that, it's also a little bit. It's more. It's a bit liberating because it's like it's not a big deal to me, and it's It's really interesting that people make such a fuss on especially, you know, all these other issues you know surrounding, you know, marriage, equality, [00:16:30] and that's just the tip of the iceberg. But it's interesting from an asexuals perspective because it's like, yeah, I. I don't I don't see what the big fuss is. Really? Um, but I think a struggle coming with with being asexuals the fact that in a society where people like to put labels on you, I find it really hard to say, explain my situation that I'm attracted to people [00:17:00] in this way. But I don't have any other way of being attracted. And I'm sure I'm I'm young, and I'm sure that I will sort that out. You know, it will. It will come when it comes. Um, but right now it's Yeah, whatever. I don't I don't think about it much as well. Yeah, I guess my gender exploration has taken up such a massive part of my life that yeah, sexuality can be something that's so fluid as well, do you think? Yeah, definitely. [00:17:30] And I think that is such an important point to get across to everyone because people think in such binary terms and gay and straight lesbian. But it is so fluid. And I think even if you identify as completely heterosexual, there are those moments where you you know, you hear someone talking and you're like about having, you know, a bromance or just like these things [00:18:00] that suggest, you know, that everyone is. I think everyone's a little bit every you know and no, I don't think anyone is completely. I mean, of course you can, like, the people are, however they identify, and that is absolutely cool. But it's just my belief that I think there's a bit of fluidity in everyone, no matter how they identify. And yeah, that because of that, that makes it not [00:18:30] not much of a deal. Do you feel like people who are asexuals are a minority within the, um, Rainbow Community? Yes, I would say that because I don't really know anything about asexuality. And the fact that I don't know much about it, despite trying to look for resources and people to talk to, is is saying something in itself. Um, yeah, [00:19:00] I think we asexuality is pretty invisible at the moment, and I'm not sure, um, it might be something that this is just from my perspective, it might be something that does get more coverage. It's It's almost like we've moved from, I guess the whole you know, gay liberation. And that movement is now gender visibility is more coming into the media and the mainstream media. And I wonder if next will be all the other labels? I don't [00:19:30] know. I don't know. But yeah, it would. It would be nice to see more, um, visibility, especially in the media I think of as people. And have you managed to find any friends who kind of identify the same way or like an online community? Or how have you? How have you kind of learned about it? Um, it sounds like it's been quite limited. Yeah, I I've read a couple of articles. I read an article on the Guardian a while back. I was like, That's cool. Um, [00:20:00] I guess I don't go around telling people I'm sexual. It's not something that I really speak about. Um, but I know that a few of my friends, they don't think it's a big deal at all, Really. Um, I just think that especially some of my friends don't care. They're all a bit fluid anyway, [00:20:30] so that doesn't matter to them at all. Yeah, I do sometimes wonder in the future how it will affect my life and my relationships, but that's that's an obstacle that I can get over when I come to it. Yeah. So, um, you said you'd like to see kind of sexuality. Kind of represented more in the media. Um, do you see any kind of parts of your identity reflected in kind of any kinds of media? [00:21:00] No. Uh, the way that I identify personally. No. I mean, there are I sometimes see reflections in, say, transgender characters, but not just aspects of them. Like no one who I can look up to and say, Oh, wow, [00:21:30] that's like, for example, Taylor Vern Cox. Um, she, you know, she's transgender. She's obviously male to female. So there's that difference. But within that the fact that a transgender person is speaking out as being an advocate within, I guess mainstream media Um, that's I. I identify with that. But in terms of how I as an asexuals [00:22:00] guy, identify? Not really. Um, yeah, it's something. I'm intrigued by the whole representation of gender and sexuality in the media, but and are you studying next trimester at university? Um, I'm doing film and English and philosophy this trimester, and then film, philosophy and theatre and the next trimester. [00:22:30] Um, so it's telling these kind of stories and getting that representation out there is something you're interested in doing with that kind of film. Yeah, definitely. I think I'm quite I. I believe that telling stories and especially telling your own stories, um is a pretty powerful medium, I guess. Um, a channel through which other people can connect to other people can learn about new new things, Um, new concepts and new perspectives on life. So [00:23:00] through I would really like to make in the future. I'd really like to make documentaries of or just films of of gender diversity and and different sexual orientations within different societies in the world. Even branching out a little bit. Um, I think, yeah, that's something that I'd really like to get tell other people's stories and yeah, and tell my own as well. Is it important to [00:23:30] you to have a kind of sense of, um, community and belonging within your different identities? Yeah, I think, even though I I don't necessarily feel alone or anything like that. But it's the feeling of being with the community and working together to fight for something or to make change happen is so powerful. And I think it's really [00:24:00] it it makes At least it makes me feel like I have a purpose, um, within the world, because I think it's really easy to feel like you're a tiny You're a tiny atom in this massive this universe that doesn't really get you. So when you're with the community, a community that that understands your perspective and you can feel just you can just feel comfortable being that's I think that's so important to have, [00:24:30] especially even if you're not, you know, with immersed in that community every day. At least you have that support to fall back on. Yeah. How have you found that that community so far? Yeah, I mean, so, like, I went to schools out a couple of years ago, So I going to schools out, which is a group for mainly different sexualities. But, you know, the the whole the rainbow [00:25:00] community, um, for teenagers and met really cool people through that and just from there, being more aware of and Wellington being more aware of, um, of people like me and hearing other stories and helping younger people as well find find their place, something I'm looking forward to doing more. Yeah, There's just a sense of [00:25:30] equal, not equal, like Equalness, I guess within when you're in that community and that's really cool. What do you think are some of the most important issues still facing our community? Quite a few. Um, I think that the treatment of transgender people within the health care system [00:26:00] is a massive one. especially with funding and just the way that information is it was given to us. Um, it's not really readily available out there. And I think that that really needs to be worked on, um, understanding that physically and mental health is just as important as physical health within, obviously for everyone, but also [00:26:30] within the trans community. I think, um, gender dysphoria is something that most people don't understand. And it would be really great to see more doctors be educated on what they at least you know, so they can have a bit of empathy towards transgender patients. Um, I just want to see the, you know, race and class and ethnicity. I just don't want to see them being barriers at all within [00:27:00] the community, within anyone you know, especially it's hard enough being in a minority and then when you're a minor, a minority within a minority, it's so easy to feel, Um, well, it's easy to be discriminated against and stuff like that. So I think the biggest thing that with our society can do is we can just keep educating people. I think most of it comes from ignorance and people not knowing that this is just who we are. And this is [00:27:30] this is just how it is and people need to start accepting it. They just need to start living with it, dealing with it. It's Yeah, I. I can't really think of any specific issues. I just want to see everything. Just people staying more, being more educated on on the smaller, the T and LGBT and asexuality and all those [00:28:00] things and what they mean. Um, if you could give some advice to someone younger who's maybe go through the same kind of things that you've been through around your gender and sexuality, what would what would your advice be? I'd say Keep at it because there are times where it feels like you're going backwards or you're not moving in your journey in your if you're working towards something in particular. Um, for [00:28:30] example, if you wanted to get on hormones, I'd say You keep at it. You just be persistent. It takes time. There are going to be challenges because people, some people aren't going to get it and aren't going to accept it. But it is so rewarding. You know, every day it sometimes feels like nothing's happening. But then you suddenly look back and you see how far you've come. And it's incredible, and that's just going to keep happening throughout your whole life. So I just say, Stick [00:29:00] in there. Whatever situation you're in, there's always gonna be someone there's, there's going to be someone who's gonna listen or who's going to help you find resources that you need, even if it isn't in the realm of who's typically there to support you like family and friends. There's going to be someone, you're gonna find them, and you're just gonna keep going. Yeah, that's what I'd say. Great advice, Um, And just to finish up, what's your favourite thing [00:29:30] about, um guess being a a young, um, trans guy asexuals person? Um, in New Zealand, I would say the there is a sense of liberation and freedom because I think some PE people, young people, feel like maybe they have rules to stick by or they have [00:30:00] to be a certain way. When you let go of those things and you just say I am what I am, it's it's great, It's really freeing and the fact that I can share my story quite openly within the situation I am living in New Zealand is I hope that it can help people and I would really like it. I'd really love to have an impact, [00:30:30] Um, by sharing my story and and changing others lives. So that's what I'm most excited about. And I think that's that's the best thing that the situation I'm in. The positive experiences I've had can help people and they can. It can. I can tell people that that there's not only one sad trans narrative that ins in some bad place. You know, there's you can. [00:31:00] There is positive within the challenges that we face as a minority.
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