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For myself. I don't feel like I am a minority, and I don't identify myself as a minority. Um, just my personal opinion. But if I look at home, I think, um, being asian, um, being quiet, um, I would say feminine in that term, Um, and being gay within a queer community or within a gay community, I think as a whole, I [00:00:30] would say I fit into the criteria of being a minority within a minority. Uh, doesn't reflect on my personal point of view, but it is what it is. So I feel this is quite relevant to talk about, I guess. Yeah. So you're saying, um, so you are studying in Auckland here now, and you work two jobs, but you're also saying that you lived in the UK for five years. Yes, but that wasn't where you grew up. Now, [00:01:00] um, so it's quite interesting with my little story. Is that, um I was actually born in Russia. Um, I lived there for eight months, came back to Vietnam with my parents from Vietnam. So I identify myself Vietnamese, um, but I actually travel travel back and forth between Moscow and Vietnam to visit my dad because he still lived there, But for five years, So I sort of have a little bit of experience in Russia, A little bit experience in Vietnam. [00:01:30] But then after five years, my dad moved back, and, um, I actually start schooling, and then I sort of would say I grew up in Vietnam. Um, I identified myself Vietnamese. I said before, uh And then, by the age of 14, 15, um, I was sent off to England to do, um, a levels and living in a boarding school. And then when I was about 19, I came here to do [00:02:00] my university or tertiary education. And I've been living in New Zealand for approximately for a year. A little bit more than for a year, I guess. Yeah. And how did you figure out your identity? So you were saying you travelled around a bit and went to school in different places? How did that kind of fit in with everything? Um, I think it's a very long process. Um, sort of. I think as I grow older, I start to be more aware of myself. [00:02:30] Um, I mean, back in when I was five, I think other people already sort of call me gay. Or I think other parents told a kid that Oh, he's gay. So don't hang out with him. So I guess by the age of five sort of have some awareness that I might be gay or I am gay because not because of the fact that people are telling me that I'm gay. But I think there's sort of some think dramatically, dramatically different about me compared to other people, [00:03:00] Um, I would say, um well, I mean, every kid has their uniqueness. But compared to the mass, um, sort of kid, like in general, I am quite different. Um, I mean, I used to play dress up with my grandmother. Um, we used to dress up in girl clothing, boy clothing. We don't care. Um and then I guess I'm sort of quite I'm not saying I'm Femine, but I get that very posh [00:03:30] and very sort of lady, like acting like my grandmother because my grandmother is a very elegant lady. And then she taught me how to sit. Well, um, how to eat? Well, how to respond to people. Well, um, all the things that is sort of what She was taught as a little girl in a very, um, upper class family in, uh, in the nine in the 1930 [00:04:00] when it was quite heavily tradition for the Vietnamese family, upper class family, for the girls to have these sort of lady like training. So I I picked up on that, Um I mean, I guess people would think I'm quite feminine. Uh, I don't think that well, I think I'm feminine, but not in the way that, um you know, like, uh, flamboyant or nothing wrong being flamboyant. But I'm just saying, As [00:04:30] of I know myself, I am Quite, I would say late like acting because I like I. I pick up from my grandmother and, um yeah, so I guess because of that II I quite different in the way I eat and stuff and treat, you know how to interact with people at the age of very young age with perhaps the other kid. They they were quite, um you know, being a kid, boys being quite active and girl being quite, you know, [00:05:00] you know, they they would have little clique of hang out, but I never fit into, like a very girly games like, you know, I don't know, jumping rope and playing and or talking about boys and I. I never also fit into the boys. Um, playing soccer. I think I was more like a observer. Um, I observe everything around me. I like to see what people do. Um, I have my own fun, and I often lost in my world and [00:05:30] and also yeah, And when I grow up, um, that sort of carry on me until now, you know, again, very acting lady, like, you know, very polite how to eat, how to walk like I. I think also one of the major thing that set me apart that, you know, people think I'm gay because often I I used to My grandmother just told me that I had to work in a straight line. Um and I think that's I think, people, I guess it kind of girly thing to do, but I would never [00:06:00] have I don't have a habit of working out of the straight line. I always work on a straight line and very light stuff. And then, um you know, my my grandmother told me you have to move like a wind that you make no sound, but you sort of go through and people know that you go through, but not really disturbing now. So I always carry that with me. And I guess when I go to England, um, I have well, before that, I I have sort of feelings [00:06:30] for guys and all that. Um, never really pay attention, because in Vietnam we all concentrated on studying and and it's just a culture that you have to study really hard. And, um, when I go to England, that's the first time I live with myself. And, um, I have a lot of thinking to do and there's no my parents, not around. So I sort of I guess I don't have to hide my feelings. So I sort of exploring myself [00:07:00] and, um and I have a I was, um I don't say a crush. I actually was in love with some guy and and that is when I realise I'm actually gay. But having said that, um, a lot of my sort of interaction, my actions are very, um, sort of restricted with the cultural norm of being a boy. Um I mean, I still act with all these, [00:07:30] um, sort of lady like thing, but I would certainly scared to, um, dress what I like. Um, another thing that I really love fashion. Um, I always grew up in sort of the world of beauty and I. I am so inspired by sort of beautiful things and beautiful clothes and often because of fashion. I love women's wear, and they all inspired me and men's wear as well. And I guess when I was [00:08:00] 14 16, I know I was gay. I came out as gay, but I always restricted myself, like expressing myself fully as who I am, uh, in terms of dressing. So you were talking before a little bit about Are you telling me about an instagram instagram picture that you commented on talk a little bit about that? Oh, yeah. Um, right. It's not actually a instagram picture. It's more like a Facebook post about this. Very good [00:08:30] looking couples who is, um, white, um muscular, attractive. Um, and then the the media. I think the magazine was posting about the couple say, Oh, you know why this couple is is have, like, millions Follow what? Not, um, and I. I sort of how I find it funny. II. I commented on the the Post on Facebook that, um because they are representing the [00:09:00] very rigid and exclusive beauty standard of the queer community. That's why they got a lot of follow up. And then there's quite a lot of argument sort of throwing around with my comments saying that, you know, I hate the couples. I don't know that my judging them and actually respond to, uh, the people who sort of I would say, reply to my comment. And I was saying that like, Look, I don't know about a couple, I don't hate them. I don't judge them. I'm sure they're happy. I'm sure that they are in love. [00:09:30] But I'm just saying the fact that the media is sort of hyping up this one dimension beauty standard of a very white, masculine male with, uh, attractive feature, Um and then they don't representing other alternative looking, queer, queer gay guys. And and I would say that is quite damaging, and and I have a very negative effect on the queer community and especially young queer who are just coming out [00:10:00] and who are not sure of themselves. So That's why I commonly on that my common never intended to hurt or put down a couple, but actually intended to point out the fact that the media is quite discriminating. So yeah, that's pretty much it the sort of Facebook story about the comment and thing. Yeah, And how do you think that plays out? I don't know. Like in New Zealand or in Auckland in regards to I don't know, dating [00:10:30] or representation with LGBT. Um, I think they actually have the same problem here in New Zealand. Uh, Auckland in terms of the gay beauty standard or not even beauty standard Just the gay community in general. Um, if I mean, if you go to, uh, what is the magazine called Express? And if you look at the magazine, you I'm pretty sure that you would not find [00:11:00] any permanent feature of lesbian couple or any non gay couple or non gay individual. Um, you would find maybe some post or some feature about Maori Pacifica or any non white, uh, queer identity. And you probably would not find any Maori Pacifica sort of female, uh, queer or lesbian or transgender to say, [00:11:30] um, you would probably find a lot of sort of very young, attractive, white looking gay men. Um, like I said before, I'm not having any problem with, you know, people being white and gay and being attractive. I mean, they have their life and I don't know them. And then you know what Not. But I'm just saying to you know how the media or how the community is sort of rolling out this beauty idea or beauty standard that if [00:12:00] you want to be attractive or if you want to be respect or if you want to be happy in the community, you should have this, uh, feature of, uh, first being white male being masculine or at least being masculine looking. Because the pictures you cannot know if they're masculine or not or being, uh, a very young, attractive and outside of that bubble, you pretty much being invisible. [00:12:30] Um, and I think that sort of played down and affecting other area of the community in terms of a lot of dating and social interactions. Uh, you know, uh, things like grinder. You know, I know people say that there's like, no, no Asian, no Indian. Uh, no. Black only twink or only bear. Or if if they talk, if you're not attractive [00:13:00] and not talking to you and you know, or some guy just if they're attractive, they would use that to get you know, I take advantage of you and all that stuff or even in general of social interaction. To be honest, um, I find a lot of social meeting that I've been through. Um uh, I, I would say, um, excusing like, because I was a part of them. Uh, because [00:13:30] we do make sure that that would not happen. But I'm just saying, other general, um, sort of meeting or any sort of event that was brought on Facebook because I when I came here I I was out. And then, you know, I went exploring the community, and I want to make friends. And what I find is actually quite interesting is the fact that people are very much biassed by luck in terms of their social interactions. Um, I mean, if [00:14:00] you go to a room of a social event of gay or queer, uh, you pretty much find the young, attractive sort of white male Gays would be quite popular. A lot of people would want to sit next to them. A lot of people want to talk to them. A lot of people would want to, uh, interact with them not to say that they want a date, but it just in general. And then you will see in the other side of the room you have, uh, maybe [00:14:30] lesbians, um, transgender, maybe less attractive gay guys and maybe people like me who was just like a, you know, everything we said in the corner and probably hang out together. And for me, because I am a outgoing person. Um, it's just how I am because I was, you know, have to move a lot. And I always have to make new friends. So for me, I when [00:15:00] I meet someone, I will be like, Hey, how are you? I am a What are you studying? What are you doing? And I'm not afraid approaching people and I regard their look or what not. I just talk to everyone and I find it's really funny is that I remember. I think one of those gay attractive guy when I come up to them, uh, I think they sort of talk to me but they're not really talking to me. And I think one of them sort of hinting that, Oh, they are [00:15:30] not interested in me. But the thing is that I was never interested in them. I just really want to make a conversation because this is a social event. And I find because you know how they look. I'm not judging them, because II I don't know them. I only talk to them. But I'm just saying, as a general sense because of how they look and how they got treated by other people, it sort of influence the way that they interact with other queer as well. And that sort of roll out with the whole community. I'm not saying that they're bad. [00:16:00] Uh, no one is perfect. I'm pretty sure that they have a very good sign. And, you know, I have very bad sign as well. But I'm just saying these things that I observe is is quite common in the community. And I feel like we should do something to, um, make a change. Not maybe not like something dramatic, but probably we should sort of start something new, I guess. I don't know. [00:16:30] Um, I'm I'm involved. So I'm just trying. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. So we talked a little bit before, Like about I guess, body image and what counts as attractive. Um, would you say that you've encountered I don't know, stereotypes about being who you are around your gender around your sexuality or around your ethnicity and race? Yes, definitely. Um, I think a lot of people, because II, I would say I act like, quite feminine. [00:17:00] Um, but not flamboyant. Uh, having said that I, I don't think there's nothing wrong with a flamboyant. Um, I just feel like I'm not flamboyant. Just an observation and my personal point of view. Um, but I guess a lot of people when they think I'm quite feminine, they they sort of treating me in the categories of of fem gay guy, Uh, that come with a lot of, um, sort of hilarious stories, and, um [00:17:30] uh, some discrimination. I mean, I always laugh it off. It's never affecting my, uh, my life, to be honest. But I mean, when I think about it, there's a lot of there's definitely a lot of discrimination. Um, I was telling way before about social interaction where uh, I would come and join When I first moved to New Zealand. I join this event on Facebook, and I go to different events, a social event. I would talk to people and then I. I find a lot of people so reluctant talking [00:18:00] to me because I'm quite a feminine acting individual. Um, and, um and also with, uh, sort of, um, stereotype. You know, people in think I'm Asian, and then they have all sort of Asian Asian fetishist. And or maybe because I'm feminine, they have all sort of trend fetishes and, uh, or discrimination. And I think [00:18:30] all of that is is is a form of discrimination, uh, never affecting me. Um, never make me feel sad in my life. I just laugh it off. I don't pay attention, but if you ask and I say yes. I I that Yeah. So you talked a little bit about I think you said you when you were five. You know, the other kids would say, Oh, you're gay. Or, um And was that like a negative thing? Yeah, it was. How did you Kind of I guess. Overcome that or what [00:19:00] made you go? Oh, yeah. I'm gay, and that's not a negative thing. Um, well, it was very hard because I don't have any friend. I was growing up like I don't have any friend at all. Um, it sort of worked out well for me because, like I say, I am more like an observer. And I often live in my little own world. When I was younger, uh, it was hard in a way that I don't have any want to share with, because I don't have friends. Um, but overcoming that, I think [00:19:30] because when I was younger, my grandmother never really teach me into the stereotype or the gender of a boy. Or maybe I would say, social performing performance of a gender, like if you are a guy or if you're a boy, you or to play cars and and that But she she she was quite different in the way that she we used to play dressing up in both girl clothings and boy [00:20:00] clothings. And, um, she would teach me a very I would say, elegant lady like, um, poise and gesture and action. Like she would tell me to walk in a straight line and I hold my life. I never walk out of the straight line. Whatever I do, I always walk in a straight line. Um, I always sit up straight. Um, when I eat I, I talk, I cover my mouth and I chew very quietly, not [00:20:30] with my front teeth. What? Not? And I guess I sort of used to that. And, um also, my my family structure is quite different as well. My dad was sort of staying at home, uh, doing all the house work, taking care of the kid When he came back from Russia. He retired, so he sort of just taking care of us. He's not really the usual dominant father who go to work and distance. Uh, in the other hand, my mom was the main [00:21:00] source of my our income. She was a teacher. Uh, she teach, and then she was also teach after class, and, uh, I guess I never have to grow up in a home. Uh, you know, if you're a boy, you have to do this. If you're a girl, you have to do this. Uh, I would say there is some sort of social restriction of what you can do in a boy and what you can do in a girl. Uh, but but I think because of the [00:21:30] way that my family rule out, um, it it sort of never really play such an in an important or such a heavy voice or heavy influence in my life. Um, I mean, when I growing up, definitely my dad would trying to make me, you know, you know, playing sport and all that. But he never really have any big negative sort of respond or action [00:22:00] about my, um my way of being, uh, you know, sometimes we fight about things, and then sometimes if I act a little bit feminine he he he he would feel uncomfortable. But I guess he sort of knows. And he he he he sort of sort of adjust to to me, I guess. I mean, I start collecting Barbies as a hobby, Not not because I like to play with them. I just I have I was a serious Barbie collector, [00:22:30] II. I collect Barbie, and that was a thing for, like, a lot of straight guys as well. Um, and he used to see my Barbie collection never say a word and and he couldn't because I use my own money to be honest and and yeah, he he still have them at home? II. I grew up with it. He still have them at home and And yeah, he never say anything. And I guess, Yeah, and I think growing up also, I like fashion. And then there's also sort of [00:23:00] dress cross dressing, you know, you saw the wrong girl dressing in men clothes and John Paul guy wearing dresses down the runway. And then I think my when I my life is this role around you being you and what you wear or what you do, it doesn't doesn't matter. So that's just it, to be honest. So I mean, I was sad when I was five and I was sort of struggling, [00:23:30] but I get when I came out, I am out, and I am very sure of myself. Um, I still finding a lot of new things about myself, but when I'm out, I'm out, and I am not afraid to be who I am. And I don't need people, Val validations of who I should be or what I should dress or I don't feel the need to change myself just to please anyone or please the society [00:24:00] or the gay community to feel the need. I need to be happy. So what would you say? Some of the messages from society. But also the messages from, say, I don't know, um LGBT communities have been And how have they kind of informed or erased or, um, messages? Um, there's a lot of positive messages in New Zealand. I have to say, uh, we have to give them credit, to be honest, [00:24:30] because living in England and living in the UK um, in Auckland, I see a very different world, to be honest, Um, there's a lot more sort of he no messages in over the UK. Um, there's a very sport dominant, uh, soccer player, football player team in England. And I mean, we have the rugby thing going on here, but [00:25:00] I think I feel like there's a lot less emphasis on, uh, you know, the whole you have to be straight to play rugby. Well, I don't want to get into the whole sport thing because, you know, we can talk about that for days. But I, I would say, like there's a lot of positive messages and support in Auckland in New Zealand. But having said that, um, we also [00:25:30] fall into, um, sort of the, um uh, sort of the point of view of a very dominant white gay male in the in the queer community. Um, there's a lot of messages, uh, including, you know, direct messages. You know, health [00:26:00] sign, health care advertisement, uh, gay club that only representing the white gay men beauty, you know, masculine, quite attractive, young looking or indirectly message of through how people interact with you, you know, through social media, social event grinder, tinder and how other friends and other people in the community treating you as [00:26:30] well. And I feel like the the the message is having said that it is very positive, but there is a flaw to them. And I would say there's nothing perfect. And I think as a community, we have to acknowledge the flaw that we are having in our messages and have to work together to create a much better and more positive and welcoming and, [00:27:00] uh, caring messages for the whole community.
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