This page features computer generated text of the source audio. It may contain errors or omissions, so always listen back to the original media to confirm content. You can search the text using Ctrl-F, and you can also play the audio by clicking on a desired timestamp.
Right. Welcome, everyone to this session on health care, housing and schools fighting for survival, Fighting for more. Um, the prompt for this session is we still have a long way to go. Health, housing, school and other institutions. Marginalised gender and sexual minorities among with other oppressed groups. A discussion on how to transform these institutions to meet all our needs. And, um, our panellists today are Cassie Hard, who is a socialist and great this working in youth health care. Uh, [00:00:30] Callum, who holds a Ph D from PW. Rather, she's a hate speech against LGBT communities and was the first man to be awarded a pH D in gender studies. He is working at New Zealand protest since 1999 and worked with male sex workers as well as policy and how that affects, uh, sex workers. Merv is from Levi being of NATO and descent. Uh, he is a rainbow wellington, uh, board member [00:01:00] and treasurer of the Maori and being Maori. And, um, Sarah Frasier is an activist. Queer woman proudly left, uh, proudly left. Not necessarily in that order. Who is, uh, who works in public housing research. And, uh, Jim is from Liverpool and and New Castle and emigrated to New Zealand in 2002 under the wing of his Kiwi partner, Ian. Uh, Jim, uh is a little bit retired, but, uh, works on oral [00:01:30] history being a teacher and a few other things. And he tweets, um, under tweeting account, presumably called economics and Z. Right. Um, so I think, um, we'll, uh, possibly move down the panel. Um, and then I'll open it up for discussion. Um, and so let's see if you want to start So everyone, um, thanks for coming today. It's really fantastic to be here and speaking with some really amazing people. Um, and having really amazing people in the audience listening as well, [00:02:00] um, I would first like to acknowledge, um, the that we're in today, and I'm just really excited to be here and just want to, um, acknowledge the people that have gone before us, and we've got some here on the wall as well, and just wanna, um, note that this is a really important space to be in. And I'm really excited to be standing here and be a part of that. Um, So, uh, I'm a queer youth advocate, And I'm working in the, um, the youth health sector at the moment. And, uh, I'm gonna be speaking a little bit less from my personal experience [00:02:30] and going to be talking a little bit more about what I think from what I've noticed, uh, some of the issues facing queer young people today and, um, what can really be done about it from an activist perspective is something that I'm really interested and passionate about. So, um, so, yeah, that's what I'm gonna be talking about. So, um, when I use the word queer today, I just I know that it's not for everyone. I'm doing the disclaimer, but I'm gonna be using it just as a quicker way because I don't know how long this is going to take, So I want to quicken it in some way. Um, I'm gonna be using it to [00:03:00] describe, to find people who, um are on a range of sexual and gender diversities. So it's not just sexuality in this case, unless I specify otherwise, if that makes sense, but yeah, so I'll just go from there. So the general picture of queer young people, um, basically the there's new research that's just come out from the Youth 2000 survey. So last year, and for the first time, they've actually, um, done some research about how many young people are, um, nonsense or [00:03:30] or, um, identifying as transgender, which is amazing. Um, and the findings actually show that 1% of youth right now identify as transgender. And what that means by them is that they're either trans queen or gender queer, so that's 1%. And then there's also 3% who are not so sure. So we're talking about 4% who, um, are not Are somewhere on the gender spectrum that [00:04:00] isn't isn't which I think is really awesome that we have this kind of research. Um, in terms of sexuality about 3%. Um, no, sorry. 4% are attracted to the same or both sexes, um, as according to the research. And 4% are not sure or attracted to neither sex. So if we're including asexuals, that's about 8% of young people who are, um, who are identifying as queer in some form. So that's kind of where we are as [00:04:30] a basis. And I think that's really useful. Um the Youth 2000 survey from 2007 because a more in depth discussion hasn't really been, um, released yet regarding, um, the last year at least, but it shows that, um, queer young people are facing greater difficulties in accessing health care. They're more likely to be bullied. Um, they're at an increased risk of alcohol and drug abuse. Uh, and there's higher rates of depression, suicide and self-harm. So I'm kind of saying things [00:05:00] that people might be quite aware of otherwise, you probably wouldn't be here, but just kind of spelling it out. And I think this is really reflected in terms of, um, my own work as a as a queer youth worker with young people and that coming to terms of sexuality, isolation from peers and from families. Um, Depression, suicide and homelessness are actually big things that we've been facing. So yeah, um, so that's kind of a bit of a picture about how it's looking at the moment. And I kind [00:05:30] of want to start off with a like a quote, um, by Paul, and we're kind of I want to talk about the education system because I've asked to talk about schools here, so obviously, schools are just one part of the queer young person experience. But I think it's a really integral part because we basically have to be there until we're 18 or so. So it could be a bit younger, but it's expected that you're there and being part of that system. So how should how should that system look while people are there? So I've got this quote here, and so it's kind of dense, but [00:06:00] I think it's quite important. So saying education either functions as an instrument which is used to facilitate integration of the younger generation into the logic of the present system and bring about con conformity. Or it becomes the practise of freedom, the means of by which, um, people critically and creatively engage with reality and discover how to participate in the transformation of their world. So we're talking about two separate concepts here, and I think [00:06:30] the education system, as we look at it right now is probably more in the former one. We're teaching young people how to how to work within the logic and within the structures that are already in place and expecting people to conform along the way and not really question and change. Um, and that logic at the moment is saying that queer young people aren't really important on the agenda. They're not really there. Um, they're not really recognised. So, uh, I had a bit of a chat with one of my friends [00:07:00] who's a Ministry of Education person. I'm gonna call them, um, the government at the moment. Um and basically, I kind of said to them because I'm an activist and I'm a queer youth worker. And sometimes I don't really have any idea of what's going on with government and I. I kind of like that because I'm like, Oh, you're always doing stuff wrong, But I wanted to actually check my facts first and look with what? That was the case. And, um, this person did say, actually that, um, queer invisibility [00:07:30] is the biggest issue facing queers in the education system. So we're talking about pretty much very basic basic stuff that at the moment, these issues our issues. Queer young people's issues are just not there on the agenda. They're quite invisible. And that's something that we all kind of know already. But, um, from the na so cool that's been sorted. Um, in terms of the educate, I'm just going to talk a little bit about what is what [00:08:00] are some of the issues that I think are coming up. And this is from my own perspective and I'm aware that there's there's a range um And so at the moment, as it happens, there are some queer youth organisations who are teaching education programmes, schools and doing professional developments um, workshops within organisations, so these aren't compulsory. Basically, we, um we source the funding ourselves and we, uh, take care of most of that all on our own. And schools [00:08:30] don't have to let us in, so we only work with the ones we've built relationships with and because, as we all know, that we learn the most from the hidden curriculum. It's really problematic when we have, um a whole however many years from age 5 to 18, when actually, most of us probably have never heard the word queer, lesbian, gay transgender from a teacher or within the curriculum like the actual curriculum. And I think that's that's a real concern. So So [00:09:00] at the moment we go in and we teach education, and it's really great because we get to speak with. We get to speak to the young people in the room who may be queer or questioning at some point in their life. And we also get to talk to the teachers and to their peers about what you can do to be able to support these people if they do come out. So it kind of has a two way purpose, and it's it's It's a really positive, amazing experience. Um, it just sucks that we're quite underfunded and not taken seriously enough to be able to be let in in the first place. [00:09:30] Um, so schools are run pretty independently and often their main interest, as they put it, at least, is keeping the parents happy. That's the main stakeholder. Most of the time, parents come back and they're complaining to the board of trustees. Then you have a big fuss. So usually I think it's used an excuse, Um, and keeping to more traditional conservative, uh, forms of education and content because it's an easy scapegoat to say we can't really, you know, upset the parents who are coming in the wider community whether or not those parents actually [00:10:00] disagree. Um, so another point that's going on is that there is really great research that is out there at the moment, for instance, like the to be who I am, report. There's been some really great research, but I don't think it's really been taken seriously. It's not being implemented, it's there. We just need to be putting it into practise, and because these issues aren't visible, it's not taken seriously. It's not. It's not there, it's not happening. Um, I guess another concern I have is that, um Recently there was a national suicide [00:10:30] prevention plan that was put out, and the Queer Communities were completely missing from that plan. And that's like of great concern, Um, when we are one of the main demographics that, um, are at high risk of of suicide, and how do we deal with that? The fact that we're already ambulance at the bottom of the cliff and it's our own communities and our own families and our own peer groups who have to actually bear the brunt of these really, really tragic circumstances, um, and feeling really isolated most of the time. [00:11:00] So it's really concerning that that isn't really even on the agenda at a national level. Um, and another point is in terms of bullying. So as far as I've been told, the Human rights Commission has actually told the education Department that, um, it's a problem that bullying isn't being recorded. And I think that's really concerning because we don't know what bullying really looks like in A and we need to be able to make some We need to be able to take an actual, um, an [00:11:30] examination about what? Homophobic or transphobic? Um, bullying will look like so from there, by the way, Jason, tell me if I'm starting to run over. Yeah, Cool. Um, I came up with this really, like, complex diagram because I'm like, OK, this is this is really great. We've got all all this knowledge, but what do you do with it? How do we make something of it? So bear with me while I go through this, but basically, I'm kind of saying that, um, in this case, [00:12:00] the young people were here, and obviously they're at the centre of this, But I think this can apply to any situation when you're fighting as an activist, right? so this could be beneficiaries. This could be, um it could be sex workers. Um, it could be homeless so on and so forth. And I think that what the thing about youth is that, um they know the issues, they know what's going on. So this is built on on an institutional knowledge, but [00:12:30] that's what it is. It's a knowledge. So they know the issue. It's not there at the coal front, it's affecting them. This is what it's about. Um, as well as that we have the workers, and these are the workers who will be working with the youth. So it could be, um, teachers. It could be queer youth workers, community organisations, um, people within mental health as well as, um, people within governmental departments. And so I'm looking at this, and I don't want to create this real dichotomy [00:13:00] between the two. But, um, just for the sake of this, this diagram just go with me for a second and was based on an institutional knowledge. So they're at they're at the coal face, they're seeing what's going on, and they know the issues as well. And also there's a class of memory, so the older people would have seen the battles that have taken place and know what has been fought and what has been won and where we can, where we can move forward. So [00:13:30] there's a layer of workers within this who know what the problems are. But the reason I put it in a square here is because I think it's really difficult, Um because we're quite restricted when we fall into these worker spaces, because I think there's a general logic that as organisations as representatives, we have to remain neutral and we have to be nonpolitical, um, beings and non-political organisations. And of course that's really [00:14:00] impossible because everyone to know that politics is everywhere, power and balances are everywhere and it just means that we're not addressing what's going on. So, um so the people who have the knowledge currently quite restricted by what they can do with that knowledge and where it can go and um, this can be connected to funding. So it means that people don't want to speak out about stuff because it means that they might miss out on governmental or council funding. Um, and just that look of having to be neutral [00:14:30] all the time. I think is really big, and it can be police. Sometimes it's really covert, like managers, firing employees or ruining their future job prospects for speaking out. And I think this particularly with unions. This is a big one, and also, um, it can be less. It can be more overt and that it's not really talked about. Nobody really talks about the fact that you know you're dealing with really complex, messed up systems, and the problem is the system. The problem is the structures, and it needs to be changed, but nobody really wants. There's [00:15:00] no space to be able to talk about it. You just do your job because it's your job and you want to put the food on your table, which is quite understandable. Um, so from here and again, I'm not trying to make these, um, separate groups because the thing is, is there's tonnes of crossover. But the way that I'm conceiving of as the moment is that activists often occupy the space that is out of the square and often out of this as well. Um, and what we can usually do [00:15:30] with that space. Sometimes we're in them. Sometimes we're out. But generally people are committed to making structural changes. Um, outside of these systems, or within sometimes as well. And I think, um, from my perspective, what the role of the activist should be is having meaningful dialogue with both, um both youth or whoever the other group is and as well as workers. It all seems kind of common sense most of the time. Um, but I think it should be about facilitating [00:16:00] a space where, um, activists can talk with the two groups as well as talking with each other and from there taking those issues and turning them into political messages. So, um yeah, and from political messages, that's how we start having a vehicle for creating change. Um, and this is all makes it seem kind of simple. But I think [00:16:30] from my perspective, having been, um, having being or having been a young person, but also having being a worker and still a worker and being an activist, it's really difficult being able to be in both camps all of the time and being able to pick which hats. I mean, I have to get permission to be here speaking on certain, um from certain, um, organisations that I'm a part of and it's really I think about how we can use our spaces and who we are to our best advantage. So I think in this particular case, the things that need to happen [00:17:00] around queer young people is that there needs to be more open political dialogue. Um, there needs to be more more space for this and, um, involving many different voices, which is obviously really important. So having, um, people talking to people that they might not usually be talking to, I think is really, really important in in forming, um, forming alliances. So I think a key one of that and which I missed out in here, actually is some of this group. But also [00:17:30] there are groups and these are unions. And I think in terms of unions, usually you can guess that these are the people who are going to be the organisations that are already going to be working for social justice. So I think it's about connecting with unions, particularly for young people connecting with teachers unions, um, finding allies, having conversations, um, campaigns at school board level, building public pressure on the outside and really, I think, focusing on the long term. I think capitalism [00:18:00] as a system is based on short term fixes and short term responses for long term embedded problems. Um, and I think that we need to be really fighting that logic. We can't just find 11 solution for years and years of oppression. That's not how how it's going to be solved. We need to be digging our heels and and and working from the ground. And I really liked the, um the that happened yesterday in the talking about weaving and I think weaving those relationships together, um, in this way, in [00:18:30] any way. But it needs to happen so that we can, um, be working together as a stronger front. So, yeah, those are my ideas. And thank you for listening there things out, right, OK, just as that comes into focus and everything. Now, this starts off very similar to the one [00:19:00] I did yesterday because I didn't know if there was going to be the same people here. Some of you are different. Some of you are the same. So bear with me while I just skip through those slides right So again, who is and what is NZ PC? We were formed in 87 6 workers working together, getting together, talking with each other in beaches, on the cafes, street corners, bars, homes in the brothels, talking with each other about what could be done [00:19:30] to improve their employment rights and also issues about their section, their sexual health. Um, because at that time, HIV was just coming into the community, Um, the contracted by the Ministry of Health. Although the very first contract that NZP PC signed was actually signed with the Minister of Health, not the ministry. Um, the Ministry of Coast, of course, went under different changes over the number of years. And, um, our contracts have continued throughout that period. We have community bases in cities [00:20:00] around the country. Those cities also do outreach to various different parts of the country. So Auckland covers all of um from southern southern fringes of Auckland. North Tauranga covers all of Hamilton right down through to Taranaki, across Gisborne. All that area Wellington is just, um, coast and with sometimes going up to the Hawke's Bay because we do have a outreach worker in Hamson North who [00:20:30] does go up to the Hawks Bay and go goes across to as well. Um, Christchurch covers everything from Timaru North and Dunedin covers everything from South. Um, we are a rights based organisation, OK, rather than just a condom vending machine. But we do provide information to people working in the sex industry. Um, we have two websites, one of which is currently under construction, which is the sex book law dot co dot NZ. But that's, um, [00:21:00] couldn't have some other things added to it recently. Um, we deliver national and policy advice to NGO S and government organisations right throughout the country, including local government organisations. So yes, we do include the Auckland Council and things like that and the information that we provide, Um we provide sexual reproductive health resources to all people within the sex industry. That's regardless of gender, regardless of ethnicity, regardless of migrant status, and also regardless of whether they are an operator [00:21:30] or whether they're a sex worker themselves, Ok, um, we provide a supportive environment in our community basis. Anybody can pop in for a tea, coffee, check whatever, get information about what they need to know about anything like that and we strengthen strategic alliances right throughout the sexual health region. Um, area itself as well. So yeah, just a little tongue tied there. Right. So who are sex workers? [00:22:00] Just over half are European. Um, just over 30% are Maori, 5% Pacific Island and 30% 13% or other. The other includes all of Asia, right from Japan, right through to the Middle East, all of Africa, African Americans, um, South America and the Caribbean. So it's quite a large other, um 85% are female, 9% are male and 6% are transgender. As I said again [00:22:30] last night, sexual orientation has very little to do with what a person does when they're at work. This emphasises that sex work is work rather than sexual orientation. So we have gay men who will work with female clients, straight men who will work with with male clients and lesbians who also work with male clients. So there's very little about sexual attraction to do with it [00:23:00] again. Um, 83% of the industry is indoor. 17% is outdoor. That's working on the streets. Um, the large brothels like Splash and Paris and Um and, um, the White House in Auckland. They are around about 62% of the indoor brothels, big owner operated brothels and the small owner operated brothel. [00:23:30] That is those that are working privately by themselves or with one or two others. They take up around about 38% of the indoor. Um, work scene. Um, now, we had this broken down by the area that they worked in, but we didn't have it really broken down that much by gender. I had to do a little bit of work to find out exactly how many male sex workers were included in that study by region. OK, I had to pull figures out from here and there. So you can see here that although, [00:24:00] um, it was quite a large number Watt indoors. For all of the sex industry for male sex workers, more of them will work outdoors than indoors. Most of the men who are working outdoors are based in Auckland and Christchurch at the moment, and it's sporadic. There are no male sex workers working on the streets in Wellington. [00:24:30] Every so often we pick up one or two, but then they disappear again. um because they realise that they can work better and have better conditions working indoors. Um, so yeah, 31%. 31 of them in Auckland. Three of them in Christchurch. None anywhere else. So why do male sex workers start at work? You can see here [00:25:00] that we've got the comparison there for male, female and trans. Everybody starts what for money, some more than others. Men and transgender people are more likely to start sex work to explore their sexuality. Everybody has household expenses, although transgender people are less likely to use the money that they earn to, um for household expenses. But the real telling thing is unable to get a benefit [00:25:30] of parental support. No, Here we find that the people who tend to not be able to get a benefit of parental support at that time tend to be older women who are in relationships so they don't qualify for a benefit because of their spouse's income. But for the guys and for the transgender in particular, it's because they have been told to leave home because [00:26:00] of their gender or sexual orientation. So that's quite a significant thing to take into account. OK, that's a very significant thing. But does that mean that there are heaps of young people working on the streets? No, it doesn't because the numbers are involved are so, so low to start off with. Um, last night I said that there are claims in South Auckland that there are hundreds of people working out in the street and that dozens of them are young people. [00:26:30] That's not true. The police cannot find any evidence of the claims made by or anybody else. They cannot find any evidence of the claims made by John McCracken and the other people from the Auckland Council and the local board who claim that there are hundreds and hundreds of young sex workers out there. It just isn't true. Um, we work very closely with CFS, the police and other community organisations, including faith based organisations that go out [00:27:00] on a regular basis. Even the faith based organisations are scratching their heads and going young people out there where so there is no evidence of any of the young people that are claimed by, um, the people and authorities up there, um, paying for education. It's around about the same all over the place because it's not against the law anymore. It's around about the same made to work by someone. It's claimed it. [00:27:30] Hundreds and hundreds of people have trafficked into the sex industry every year, but that's just not true. We don't find any evidence of that. Um, the police don't find any evidence of that immigration. New Zealand don't find any evidence of that. So, yes, people work for a variety of reasons, and each person has their own individual reason. Some people may think, Can I do this and then go for it, [00:28:00] maybe do one or two jobs and then stop others for different other reasons? OK, um, we have lecturers and policy analysts and people who have who have started sex work because it's less stressful than their other job. OK, sex work venues, um, manage brothels, massage parlours. They were called, um, agencies, independent private work places, um, bobs, [00:28:30] beats and cruise clubs. Some of the guys work from there, and, of course, street based sites. Um, but what do we do? Um, the Prostitution reform Act requires brothel operators to show signs like this and to take all reasonable steps which is very different from must use OK, must use means that you must always do so. Take all reasonable steps means that if there's a slip up, that's [00:29:00] OK. We can deal with that as it comes. But when someone deliberately rips off a condom, that's not take all reasonable steps. There have been clients who have been charged for removing the condom during sex, and, um, they've all been fined. But this is really telling, um, the question I feel was watered slightly differently than it should have been. [00:29:30] Always use the condom for vaginal, anal or oral sex. OK, no, this isn't in the table. I had to pull it out from the text, um, but wasn't recorded for male or, um, female or transgender. It was just a base figure of everyone. The unprotected anal sex. That's a worry. [00:30:00] Now, the study didn't look at whether it was the sertive partner or the passive partner, the top or bottom, whether there was, um, a sex worker was playing the part of, So we don't know about that. And this is an area that we will have to do more work and and it's an area that we have to do more research in as well. We are currently talking with research who we've worked with in the past to, um, [00:30:30] do some research on male sex workers and find out the reasons why some of them aren't using condoms. We know that this here is the reason why this is so low. Part of that is because of different messages from different organisations. NZ PC tries to push the message that well, you should really be covering up every time and things. And if you use a condom for oral, you're not gonna get herpes [00:31:00] in the mouth. You're not gonna get chlamydia in the mouth. You're not gonna get gonorrhoea in the mouth things because we look at the whole sexual health thing. We don't just look at one aspect, whereas some other organisations tend to put out Well, it's all right for HIV. You can't get HIV that way, but they don't talk about other things. We, on the other hand, have to take everything into consideration. Um, but the frequency that unsafe [00:31:30] sex is asked for. That's quite surprising. Thanks in comparison to the, um, female walkers, this is low and this is very hard and we are very concerned about that. Why are the clients of male workers in particular asking for unsafe sex? Why are the male clients of transgender people asking [00:32:00] for unsafe sex? But the strategies that people use to get clients to use a conduct, tell them it's the law. It's quite plain simple. No problems whatsoever. Tell them that the owner or brothel operator tells them that they have to wear a condom that works quite well, threatened to call someone that has been used. Um, tell them explicitly beforehand. Just do a hand job. That's the easiest one, the one that you can't see because [00:32:30] the bag at the bottom is still showing there is refuse to do the job. Um, the total is 60% 56% for male and 60% for female, 71% for trans. So a lot of transgender workers will refuse to do the job rather than perform unsafe sex. So what happened before and after the Prostitution Reform Act? On the 17th of December 2002, 1 of the male workers here in Wellington had had [00:33:00] the police raided his house. He was told. We are here to sacrifice for evidence of wrong keeping on the search warrant it had. We can seize condoms and other sex paraphernalia as evidence of bottle keeping as a gay man. How many condoms could he keep at home before his house would have been placed as a brothel? OK, since the PR A has been passed [00:33:30] in 2003, the police attitude has completely changed, and now it's one of protection rather than persecution. And I say persecution for a reason. Um, it's safe to keep condoms et cetera. At home, you no longer have to hide them in fridges, as some people were doing. You can work from, as as a sex worker from home, and it's OK to run. A brothel Prostitution Reform Act has been passed has been reviewed by the Prostitution Law Review Committee. [00:34:00] Um, that included sex workers, brothel operators and people from um, the Ministry of Women's Affairs, Ministry of Health, and various other um, government and non government organisations as well as NZ PC. The research from the Christchurch School of Medicine has shown that the prostitution of form provides a lot of support for sex workers and that it works very well. But it does remain contentious as we saw last night stuff about South Auckland. Um, [00:34:30] one of the very important things that comes out of it, though, is that sex workers can say no to sex with a client for any reason at any time and not have to see why. So what does NZ PC in particular provide to male workers? Well, the obvious in different flavours, different sizes and different colours OK, from large to small to [00:35:00] different types of flavours. Strawberry, vanilla, banana. Yuck! We do do test tests, um, chocolate, things like that. OK, we also provide the other obvious thing. Look again, we do taste tests and I still can't stand the artificial banana flavour Dental dams. Ok, um, dental dams are used for brimming and for, um, going down on a woman things just to add protection and things [00:35:30] there and it stops things from going through and of course, gloves. But the most important thing is our information booklets. This one here is one of the new worker booklets. And, um, it goes into everything that people will need to know about sex work. Yes, it does have pictures of dribbly dicks and things like that in it, so that people are aware of what those might look like. But it also goes into information about employment rights, your rights as a sex worker, and [00:36:00] it also covers things like taxation. Everything that a person needs to know about sex work is in there, tells you how to get out of difficult or dangerous situations. It lets you know about other things that might arise as you're working as well. Not only that, but we talk with people as well when they come to us to ask about sex work. And I give various case studies that have happened and things like the guy who was in Auckland with a female client. And, [00:36:30] um, as he was walking away in the bed, he heard a weird noise. So he stopped a weird noise, continued, got up and found it was the husband under the bed, choking off on the fact that his wife was having sex with another guy. Another male worker in Auckland who heard a sneeze coming from the wardrobe, jumped up and realised that the client's boyfriend was in there with a video camera. The client [00:37:00] that, um, didn't pay and then came back, didn't pay the right amount and then came back to a B DS M situation and was strapped up against the wall when he was confronted and said, you didn't pay me properly last week. I'll just leave now. Will I? Worker walks towards the door and shuts the door. Client blindfolded doesn't know what's going on. Please me her Stop, please. Me, her Come back. So [00:37:30] yeah, right. Um, so, yeah, we do cover a lot of the cases that might arise. And a lot of the cases that me only arise once, Um, we talk with sex workers all the time. We discuss with them at the moment. Um, with the new worker booklet, I have one of the male workers in Wellington here, going through the mail worker booklet. And, um, making sure that the stuff is appropriate for male [00:38:00] workers because this one here is more of a general thing rather than a specific gender thing. Um, I often get asked. So how many male workers have in Wellington at the moment? Um, that depends on whether you count all of the ones on the websites or just all the ones that you know who are actually working. If you go by all of the ones that are on the websites, it can be about 30. But if you go by all of the ones who are working at the moment, it's [00:38:30] around about 11. So yeah, OK, it's just references on the next page. So that's great. But, um, no stuff. Um, I'm gonna paint a very broad, um, frontline rubber [00:39:00] meets the road kind of strategies to help advocate. Um and I know that the for this workshop is, um, gender and sexual minorities. So some I make more specific, but I think would work, um, on the front line, and others are just generic. That will help. I don't like the word clients. I prefer people or the people that we work with. Anyway, I wanted to start with a few models that I found effective. Now, um, these aren't found in conventional [00:39:30] texts because they're rather high, but they work, um, in practise. So the first one that excuse my her is this is actually a cocktail, um, glass, Um, because everyone that we are feed or support to, um what they need depending on what they are experiencing in their life. They may need, um, front loading, as in project [00:40:00] management, A lot of investment. And that's the first thing they must drink before we address the deeper issues that might be going on here. Sometimes this is likened to a volcano, so that's a very basic Well, intensify your intervention very early on with what they need most and gradually progress them through. And this is normally centred around, um, tasks centred. So just very easy. Bite size. Do this first XYZ [00:40:30] kind of stuff? Um, the other one is, um, circus. Um so this ring master is juggling. And, um, sometimes what you're doing, because you don't know when agencies are going to get back to you, is that you will concentrate. Or, um, if circumstances are changing, like if this ball drops, it doesn't really matter, [00:41:00] because you need to throw the next part of your intervention up in the air. So it's just like the cyclic nature, because you're never quite sure how someone's, um, life. Your involvement with them is going to turn out at that time, so you always have to be ready to change what's kind of up in the air or keep track of your intervention as much as possible. I can't draw a chameleon. But if you could just imagine, um, you know, their anatomy doesn't change. So you have to keep your professional [00:41:30] are who are, um, your persona about you, But you need to be able to adapt quite quickly the colours that you kind of depending on the situation you're in. So the way that I might approach someone at a tribal authority is going to be completely different. How I'm going to appear and, um, proceed with my intervention, say, at work and income. So just imagine, like a chameleon, you have to be able to adapt quite quickly. Um, And now I thought I'd go over just some [00:42:00] generic kind of stuff, and then I'll drill down into specific, um, housing, health and education stuff. Um, a lot of oh, shit. A lot of the time people want to escalate to a manager. Now that very in five minutes flat, you'll have that person, um, with their backs up and feeling cornered, and they'll actually sabotage your involvement. And I noticed [00:42:30] that a lot of people employ their technique. Um, but I'd advise on maybe trying some other things first, Um, but the big one, which I might do that Get in the circle now. I don't know how spiritually inclined people are, but, um, I believe it works. Um, because when you're out there advocating, if they know that you have the energy that you're going to give up, you know, after three attempts you've you've lost the battle before [00:43:00] you've even started. So they need to know that your signature, your energy is going to prevail. It it changes the whole dynamic with how you deal with them. Because if they feel that they can brush you off with some kind of flippant, offhand, get out of my face kind of comment, Um, you you won't come out on top in that situation. I can almost promise that, Um oh, yeah. Um, and stack the vote beforehand. [00:43:30] Um, what you don't want, um, is when the person you're with, especially when we talk about minorities, is to go into that that understandable victim mentality. They have to be on the same page as you can be quite, um, because if they say, look at work and in the case managers over there, If they see that you're disagreeing. You know that? Um you don't know where you're, um, [00:44:00] person is gonna come from with the advocacy again. It's very detrimental, you know, to your involvement. Because they say, Oh, you don't even agree. So why would I? Why would I kind of bother? So they stack the vote beforehand. Um, the other one is, um a lot of organisations don't like to be, um, outdone by another, Especially if you can make that known to the community. So if you can, [00:44:30] whether it be your fax email, voicemail, let them know that so and so is gonna going to come through with this part of your intervention. Therefore, what are you What is your organisation going? Do I found that quite effective in the past, that was that no organisation normally wants to be out. Done Another thing, just like teachers, Um, And me being a social worker, if you need to call upon your membership [00:45:00] body, then then do it. I don't think that's because when you look like you're just an individual just doing your nut, you know, on behalf of someone, they won't give you the time of day. But if you can, um, advise them that you affiliate to a professional membership body that really, really changes things in your favour Normally, Um oh, and paying it forward, [00:45:30] especially in the Maori word if you just show up and you want something, um, you're not gonna get much. And this is the reciprocation that's needed amongst us professionals. Because if you can just go knocking, you know, and someone's thought Oh, I haven't seen you for a year. But now that you want something Hello, Um, that that never ever goes down. Well, it always pays to have an insider. Um, but never, ever [00:46:00] ask them to do anything dodgy because just like we wouldn't ask to be, you know, to put our job at risk. Never, ever ask them to do something dodgy, or you'll soon lose their insider. Um, another thing is follow process. Um, this is before going sideways, if you need to, because what they would do is they will default, that you have not adhered to our internal processes. Therefore, your review is invalid. [00:46:30] So just I. I don't mean to say, um, teach people to say so, but I just hopefully one of these will, um, reason. The other one I've got is, um, exemplary person. Um, so if you can articulate, um, because of centralization, Um, a lot of professionals don't [00:47:00] know the person you're working with from the bar, so? So if you can, you know, stole their virtues. You know, just what a wonderful person you found them to be, You know, within reason, um, that they are. And then, um Then I would also do that. Just maybe I'll put a cautionary note here. Um, when it comes to funding a lot of NGO S don't have much money, so I wouldn't start to threaten. Or, you know, I'm gonna seek legal [00:47:30] advice over the situation because what what we normally have access to is the Wellington Community Law Centre or your person will have legal aid. All they will do, especially government departments, was now high private lawyer man, you are essential and done for, because when it comes to this subsidy, um, or free information, [00:48:00] they never have as much resources that they're exposing. So, um, never a good thing. Um, I'll just do a quick check before I go into Oh, The other one is the what's in it for me? Factor. So a little bit of research especially, um, the strategic plan. So if you can align, um, where you're coming from, your organisation Not just [00:48:30] what you're wanting out of that situation, but what is in it for the other organisation, Um, is another good, um, letterhead and business cards. Um, rather than just on a plane a four as well. Ok, now, um, specifically to help now, Um, just with, um, I'll quickly run through the Ministry of Health. Um, PH OS, the New Zealand Medical [00:49:00] Council, the Health and Disability Commissioner, but more. Um um, locally, is that practises? If you're not getting much joy from your GP, you might want to approach one of the partners of that practise because they have a vested interest in what people are coming into that practise. Um, housing. So housing New Zealand, Wellington. I did [00:49:30] want to put in a plug for Chris over there about the Wellington Housing Trust. Also, emergency accommodation. You must have a support plan because around Wellington they've got very a fear about just accepting someone that they feel is at risk. So if you know, dear men um mention mental health, and they won't be leading that person into their accommodation at all. I, uh, education the Ministry [00:50:00] of Education, er ONQ a board of trustees, the unions. Um um, I've got water written down here because, um, if you can sell a mutual, um, alliance where they know that if they help the person that you're advocating for will mean a sustained benefit to them over the long run, whether it be by a formal MOU or just like a working [00:50:30] relationship. Um, I. I just thought a specific example was I managed to get someone's, um, rent reduced by $80 a week simply because this person had, um, um taking classes. And I know that they would not have got an interpreter there to help that person understand that contract. So I didn't need to do the whole legal avenue. So it was just simply because they knew, um, that that particular [00:51:00] lady would not have understood at all what they would have been going through. Um, I don't know if I mentioned the tenancy tribunal there. Um, the health example I have is, um, a example. And I just could not believe, you know, There's a lot of Allied health staff and so called, like, you got your specialists, your surgeons, registrars so forth. And, um, you think that after all the years of formal education that they have, [00:51:30] that they might treat every person with some dignity, but like, there were jaws dropping all around the world through the corridors. And I just It's rather disheartening that, you know, so-called professionals out there. Um, I guess don't have the humanity with the empathy. Still not to discriminate against gender and sexual minorities. Another plug for social workers Because, um, there's not much we haven't seen, [00:52:00] you know, by now, after you've been there a while. So, um, if you're at a loss, you know what to do. Whether you're in a sticky situation or whether you're wanting to support your loved one friend, family member, get a social worker ASAP. Um, Fucking hell. Oh, and with especially the minorities speak. [00:52:30] I've got the Human Rights Commission, so it will be good to familiarise yourself with what grounds and areas. Uh, the human rights Commission covers also the equal employment opportunities, which is EEO. Yeah. Um, and if the person that you're not working with, Uh, sorry. If the person you're working with isn't working, then you want to seek a review of any decision. That's the only way that you normally [00:53:00] get any joy out of work and income. Um, which is sad in itself. Oh, yeah. And I'll end with, um thanks. Um, um, this is the only area that anything's ever meaningful to anyone. [00:53:30] Oh, what was it? I learned it the other day. Talk does not cook rice. I just heard that the other day, and I will never, ever forget that. Right? So, you know, the is all fine and well over to and academia. Yeah, but you must be the conduit here to bring that theory down into the reality of that person's world so that you can actually make a difference [00:54:00] in their life by practise. Yeah, that's good. Thanks for that. Um, I think we've got a half an hour left, so we're going to get through our next two speakers, and I'm going to open it up for some brief discussion. If we can do that, um, I know I was I'm gonna take my chair, sit down. Although I have to say I'm really quite tempted to run around the room and really screw Sorry. [00:54:30] Just because I'm all like that, I'm also gonna say that I haven't got any pretty diagrams to draw. I've got no wonderful power points to display. You're just gonna have to sit and watch me and listen to me. Blurb on. OK, um, one of the things that I've been learning through my lifetime and it's quite a long one is that it's really important to give people the tools to resolve [00:55:00] issues themselves. It's no good. I mean, we were talking about it this morning. I don't know if you were in that session about, you know, West is best and we go in and we tell people what to do and how to live their lives and stuff. But I'm gonna go a little bit against that, because when it comes to housing, I firmly believe that social housing is incredibly important. And right now our current current government is screwing with that Social [00:55:30] housing is a service which is provided by governments in order to ensure the most vulnerable have a roof over their head. In my opinion, it is in fact, a right and not a luxury. The government is making huge changes to its policies relating to social housing, and these will have direct effects on many people from within our own communities. As a New Zealand has managed the majority of social housing stock on behalf of the government. But recent changes have seen this task [00:56:00] being handed over to the Ministry of Social Development. Um, I've recently, um, had a bit of dealing with um, an organisation called Body Positive, which is an HIV support group founded by and run by, um, people living with HIV A. I DS and the, um Bruce Kilmister from the organisation is really concerned about MS D taking over the running of, um housing because he's in fear of, um, [00:56:30] people with HIV not meeting the right criteria and being thrown out from their homes. Part of the thing for not only people living with HIV but people who are, um, in a minority is to establish themselves in their community. And one of the ways of doing that, especially if you don't have access to work, is to do that from where you're living and if you're suddenly if you've been living in one place for 12, 15, 20 years and through changes of government making, you asked to move from that [00:57:00] home because they want to pull it down and sell land off. That's gonna really mess with your head and make it really difficult for you to continue living a happy, healthy existence. So, yeah, Bruce, um, has quite a concern about what's gonna happen with, um He's particularly concerned with gay men living with HIV aids, but it's gonna have an effect on anybody. And what is gonna happen around MS D running looking after the the housing sector? Um, earlier this year, the lovely Nick Smith, [00:57:30] the so-called minister for housing, announced plans to transfer 12,000 state houses to community groups and charities. And on one hand, that might look like a really cool idea to get allow people who, um, deal with those who are in need of housing to be actually providing the housing and helping the right people get into the get into the homes that they need. But in my daytime job that I do working at Otago University, um, public health and the housing sector, [00:58:00] we've come to learn that one of the biggest charities that want to take on as many of these houses as they possibly can is our lovely friends at the Salvation Army. And I'm sure I don't need to explain to anybody around here the history that our communities have with the Salvation Army. So anybody who is, um, trans or queer in any aspect, or even a street worker or a sex worker [00:58:30] who rocks on up to the Salvation Army and says I need a house, Please. I don't think they're gonna get particularly, very far. And this, I think, is dangerous in the fact that it could cause people to return back into the closet in order. If you if you're desperate for somewhere to live and your only option in your area is to go to the Salvation Army and you've used up every resource you possibly can think of and this is your last opportunity, people are gonna put themselves back in the closet, and that's really unhealthy. [00:59:00] Unfortunately, um, in our communities, we are really, really overrepresented in the statistics in relation to mental health issues. It's a big problem, So being able to to have so having to, um, put yourself back in the closet. Deny who you are. Behave in a different manner just in order. To be able to get yourself a home is incredibly problematic because, in turn, having a home having a place to live in a sense of space, a sense of your own [00:59:30] somewhere to call your own space that's really important to your good mental health. I mean, we all know that those of us that are lucky to have somewhere to live it's your own little space. Even if it's just a room in a shared flat, it's yours. It's somewhere that you can make to look like your own space, something that's really relatable to who you are and represents who you are. So if you're living in constant fear of not being able to be who you are because you're terrified of being evicted because your landlord is a Salvation [01:00:00] Army or some other church organisation or some other group that's not going to that has no understanding of what it means to be other than heterosexual, that mental health status is going to be really, really compromised, and I think that's a really big issue. One of the other things that is really concerning. To me in Wellington right now is the lack of emergency housing for our youth. And I know my wee friend here. Cathy [01:00:30] will understand that as well. We have over the last two or three years had real issues. With youth being thrown out of their homes and having nowhere to go. There's nowhere in Wellington that is a fixed place where people can go and knock on the door and say, I really need some help. I really need to have a place to stay for a few days. A few weeks, however long, um, I did have a bit more to say, but I'm kind of Yeah, keeping in mind the time, So I'm gonna stop there. But if [01:01:00] anyone wants to come and talk to me about it, either the rest of today or any time ever come and talk to me because I think it's a really it's a really big issue and something that we need to be working on because it is one of those areas that we can't fix. Social housing is something that the government needs to be providing, not removing. Thanks. Um, I'm gonna spend even probably less time. Um, [01:01:30] uh, I was trying to think of being racking my brains and therefore not really thinking about what? What the hell I'm going to say. I tweet on economics and Z, and I'm not an economist. I'm quite keen on, um, economic ideas, Um, if only if only just simply to sort of in my semiretirement to sort of try and separate out from the kind of things one hears. What? Some economic truth. Basically, um, [01:02:00] I I recently, um, responded to, um uh the the UN S. Um uh, review of Human Rights in New Zealand. Um, and I looked at the the report that the Human Rights Commission, um, had done, and I noticed that there was nothing in it about people in their old age. Um, and [01:02:30] we're we're in a conference in which we're trying to to think about, um, everybody, um and I was trying to to sort of work out Well, what am I going to say about economics that say works against the kind of, um, divisions that frequently exist? Um, it's not uncommon to hear, um, that older people described as wealthy. [01:03:00] Um uh, bluing. Uh uh. Two houses, three houses, um, stacked up with pensions and and well-being. Um, and so and I and I And I must admit part of my response to, um, the Human Rights Commission's draught. Um, I haven't read the the final version, but but fundamentally, it was, um, wondering why? [01:03:30] I mean, wondering if they had actually come to agree with those same opinions, because it's quite obvious to me that, um, many people who are older are also poor. Um, and it's not uncommon to, um to read about, um, people being abused in in care, um, for care, um, facilities themselves to be rarely properly evaluated and policed, regulated, [01:04:00] really? For major investments to be made, um, in the care sector, um, which, actually, substantially is going bust in in the UK. In fact, um, and there's a tendency for me to believe anyway, that, um, care provision, um, broadly is following the same sort of path as it has done in the UK over here in in New Zealand. Um, given a huge boost in the eighties, of course, by [01:04:30] deregulation. So, um, recently, we've had two very good studies. Uh, two very good books published, um, one is called inequality, um, a New Zealand crisis. And, um, the other one is affordable housing. Um, and though I don't really like referring people to books because it's not everybody's things, um, certainly that they are [01:05:00] a very good guide, actually, um, historically, which is most important, actually, because, um, I think if you're younger, you might not fully understand how things were done 40 years ago. Um, and since it's been a huge economic change in approach over the last 40 50 years, there was a There was a, well, what's turned out to be a very brief period of 20 years after the Second World War in which many developed countries had very good welfare [01:05:30] systems. Um, the remaining years have been ones in which, economically, um, the conditions the the the the the wealth, if you like, held by us all in common have been reduced simply because the economics have been ones in which, um, income has flowed to the very rich, in fact, and, uh, since 2008, that's been the pattern even more so. There was a drop in wealth [01:06:00] because people lost a lot of money when things crashed. But they've more often than not made up for that. So I was thinking, I'm probably getting towards the end of of what I might use say, I was thinking, Well, what what can I say about, um uh, the last, um, 60 years say, Well, my economic perspective is one in which you you're wise. [01:06:30] I think to understand that if you're 20 then what you're doing now, economically and over the rest of your life can be what you're actually living off, Um, in when you retire or when you need to start work. Um, the the normal way to look at that is to think ahead and save. Um, I, I think the realistic way to look after yourself, um, when you're 60 or 70 or whatever when you want to stop working [01:07:00] is actually to look at what what society is accumulating now out of your work, um, in the form of assets. And we've got the asset sales that are coming up now. But the kind of assets I think are the ones that as I was a young person, I lived off. Basically, I lived off what my parents and grandparents contributed. I lived off their hospitals, their schools, their roads, Um, and all the the the [01:07:30] improvements that I live off my education. Um, I lived off all of what I conceived to be, um, accumulated the commons really in society. So I think the realistic way of of viewing older age when you could no longer work as it is, of course, for young, uh, for Children who can't work or people who are disabled is actually to look at society itself as the the vehicle for looking after people. It's a process of renewal. [01:08:00] Um, it's a process of renewal in which, um now, just by virtue of the work you do, um, your contributions whether paid or not, um, you allow, um, the rest of society to accumulate the assets that you have an entitlement to in older age. Um, I don't think the the the the most effective way of of looking after yourself is to save in commercial private pensions. I believe it's, [01:08:30] um, by political and economic policies that allow society to to accumulate wealth in common. Um, that allows people to be supported across their life from childhood, um, to old age. Great. Um, I wanted to give a one big thank you for all the panellists and getting up here and sharing with us some of their ideas and some of their experiences about how we can come together and fight for, survive or fight for more. Some of [01:09:00] the practical aspects of that and some of the thoughts about how we can build some campaigns around, that I want to open it up for discussion now, or any questions that any members of the audience had about what what we can be doing to fight for more in terms of housing, housing, health care or school to make it more accessible for queers or share with us any of your experiences that you've had did England want to legal? I appreciate the yeah, um, do you know what? Like [01:09:30] in terms of, like the school curriculum, the high school curriculum at the moment where where does the formal curriculum stand when it comes to, um, especially Trans? Um, people like passing on knowledge about those things. As far as I'm aware, there's nothing in the curriculum that, um says that you have to be teaching anything around train and the [01:10:00] start of the curriculum. There's nothing specifically in terms of subject breakdowns, for instance, and health, where you might expect that there's nothing specific and covered there. There are what are called, um, values at the start of the curriculum that every school should be explicitly teaching and fostering within student school. Those do kind of cover things like respect for diversity, which technically should also include general sexuality. Um, and there's also responsibilities [01:10:30] for schools in terms of, um, the next, the national administrative guidelines, that again, that they must respect the diversity and provide role models for all students. Whether or not people interpret those in the right way, though, is the problem. But technically they are, and they can be used. Yeah, they can argue. I don't think there's any. There's nothing specific about it, but yeah, there is, um, those kinds of values that could be used and interpreted. But there's also I think, I mean, in [01:11:00] terms of er I mean, I think there's sections in the ER in in terms of, um how, um, Maori and Pacifica, um, like young people are kind of included within that, and I think it's really important. I don't think there's anything specifically here. Social schools aren't being marked, for instance, or regulated on how they treat their, um, sexual, sexual and gender diverse young people just on there. I forget that the launch, they [01:11:30] you know, the article that I showed you about a report that it's coming out this week. It's been launched up in Auckland. Um, also, we did manage to meet with Chris Hipkins, and he's very, very receptive to quite, um, rigorous reform of all facets of education. It was really heartening. This was only I think, like, 23 weeks ago, So I'm ever hopeful. And, um, he seemed very genuine about transforming what you notice as nags and so [01:12:00] forth. So cool. Also, Cassie, um, you you gave us some stats on on on on Google. The the, um, section writers. What has anything been done on on the, um, on pictures or or people that, you know, um, I'm not quite sure about teachers. I mean, we've got a teacher here in the room, so that might be quite useful. [01:12:30] Um, yeah. I mean, we've had some kind of discussions with the teachers, but I think that, um, the people today does have a You have, um, some steps that I'm not aware of, but that's, um, specifically a loose organisation that you can affiliate yourself with. It's not a survey that might catch more people. I know. I am always quite surprised by that. I mean, um, in terms of I go to teaching, there always seems to be some people there, [01:13:00] so it could be so. I mean, it could be a very positive in some could be a very positive thing. I think that's another thing, and that's not something that I talked about here. But it is a really big thing. And in terms of staff, who are we being able to feel comfortable enough to come out? Because I think it's just like my experience. The first time that I ever heard about someone being queer was a teacher at the local high school, and everyone was like Oh, star a lesbian. But it was the first time that I'd ever even heard [01:13:30] the word lesbian being used. And so I think there's a huge amount of power in being able to be out, and I know, for instance, at my high school I've since gone back and had discussions with people about what I do now. And they're like, That's really interesting because actually, we had, you know, gay people, gay teachers, and they were really told to not say anything and to stay in the closet. And it's a real issue if you don't even have your adults and your staff being able to come out. Um, I mean, what kind of standard does that set for any young people? [01:14:00] Yeah, so thank you for bringing that up. And I think that kind of set will be really sure. Can I just say, also that, um, I've also looked at the youth I should report using it for research that I'm doing. Um, And in the latest round of information that came out, a lot of the young people reported saying that if they were aware of queer student queer teachers in their school, or at least an acceptance by the teachers, they were more inclined to come out and also feel safe in doing so. So having those kind of figures [01:14:30] is incredibly important for making the whole environment a heck of a lot safer, and it won't only make it a heck of a lot safer for all the queer kids. It will make it a heck of a lot safer for everybody. Anecdotally, we heard too, that, um either you seek out potentially one or two things, either. Guidance counsellor, You haphazardly find your way to schools out of the Queer Strike Alliance. Um, which isn't good, I think. [01:15:00] Yeah, I have another question. So this is for economics. Sorry for your name. Um, Jeff, what do you think of this possible? Like a staggered retirement age and the impact that it might possibly have on maybe, Like we might, um, that there's a real problem in that that the economy doesn't have figures about lesbians and gays and queer people and [01:15:30] and transsexuals. And it doesn't have any particularly strong information about what we might expect over the span of our lives. Which is why I didn't really talk about it. Um, I think it the following general rule. I think it it can only be worse for people who are discriminated against and who are likely to be discriminated against across across their lifetime and possibly accumulate the effects of [01:16:00] discrimination. Um, so that would be a broad principle to apply in the absence of hard figures or stuff like that or policy research in terms of staggered, um, retirement ages, I must admit, I find it difficult to forgive the Labour Party for offering to be responsible and change the retirement age from 65 to 67. Um, the reason I find I think it's unforgivable is [01:16:30] I think it was opportunist at the time because they're into proving themselves to be responsible. And I think it's a false responsibility. Um, I think that there's a lot of occupations and there's a lot of life circumstances to shorten people's lives that forgetting about their contribution, the amount of contribution people made. Who cares about that as far as I'm concerned. But they would have been working during that period of time, or they would have tried to work and [01:17:00] might have been stopped, but they would have contributed in countless other ways. I mean, part of my submission to the UN thing was about, um, the ways one could be, you know, contribute over a lifetime more than enough to look after you in your older age, and I think it's important to establish establish that principle as soon as possible. but people who? Um I worked, um, in a whole number of industries. People who got thrown out of work. Um, when the economy crashed in the eighties, [01:17:30] um, that there's a whole bunch of people who will live after they get to the point who will live short lives. In fact, I think there are some age should rise relative. Um, no, I'm not. Actually, I think one should have a reasonably low and flexible approach to pensions and stopping work. Um, if people stop work, it doesn't necessarily mean that they've stopped contributing to society. And I think that's an important point. Um, [01:18:00] it's does that sort of cover, and it's it's easy to pole to to rush into polemics. But broadly, um, you asked me. That's my sort of way of responding a comment. Really? Um, I. I think that probably if I think of the last half dozen suicidal situations I've been dealing with, or except one of them [01:18:30] would have been qualitatively eased by access to good health. Um, now every one of those has been a queer or trans situation, but I think actually a lot of councillors don't think of this because councillors believe everything goes on in your mind. Um, I, I, uh II I think that, um this would be true for councillors whose practise was in general and in in the population as a whole, [01:19:00] um, domestic crises, any any kind of personal crisis that you can think of a very good proportion of them would not is are not about housing, but would be qualitatively eased by access to housing alternatives. Um, and and it it seems to me extraordinary that, uh, as a community, we don't find ways to create more choices, opportunities, opportunities [01:19:30] for more different kinds of housing. There clearly needs to be risk by housing for people in crisis on A on A on a much more massive scale than we have now. But that that, you know, one of the things which keeps bad marriages together is the fact that it's very difficult to leave a marriage without physically leaving your Children. Right. So, um, [01:20:00] the the thing the thing which holds the marriage system together, actually is a shortage of housing. Um, and and, um, we're not going to transcend the marriage by, uh, talking about wonderful ideas of polyamory and things like that we're gonna transcend it by making it possible. And so, um, I, I think that we should be focused on [01:20:30] on, uh, you know, ways of getting accessible housing. It's only 11 thing you ought to be doing. But it seems to me and and and from where I stand in, in in in terms of my daily life, dealing with crises among real people, it seems pretty damn urgent. II I share Bill and Sarah's concern around MS D undertaking housing because I've I've been a case manager [01:21:00] at work and income, and it's hard enough to keep up with the A flood of people you know that are coming in. Um, and then when you're not having someone at your desk, you're processing, and I'm sure you would all experienced the delays and, um, bureaucracy, processing applications and so forth. The other thing? Um, the case manager's eyes glaze over because it's it's very hierarchical, and you just follow your job description. You process [01:21:30] the benefit, you process hardship and you process supplementary assistance. We had this budgeting advisor who took time out of his day to come down and present to us. They didn't give a shit. And then this family violence coordinator who's employed by work and income to oversee those referrals. I don't know if you know you remember that it's not OK Campaign and you've got 21 22 year old. You know, I've done a year at Uni year, and can you imagine [01:22:00] how they would respond to someone actually disclosing family violence? They wouldn't have a clue what to do. So I have grave concerns that those case managers are going to take on housing. I think you know, a lot of them mean well, but they just do not have the capacity in the eight hour day to address benefits and housing. And they won't understand the complexities that people come to the table with around their housing issues. [01:22:30] So I I had something around like 50. These studies recently point to the fact that that 50% of the people in New Zealand have virtually no wealth at all, and that the people who do have wealth net wealth, it's tied up in their houses. Um, it it seems to be utterly insane to have a housing policy based upon the mortgage. Really, Um, and to be selling [01:23:00] off. Still selling off public housing and not building new Um, how how on earth can we have affordable housing? Um, if the if the median age the median wage is 24,000 a year, I mean, how can we be talking about affordable mortgage housing? Um, it it it seems to be it. It encourages, um, housing bubbles. And it encourages people to think that the only option for [01:23:30] them to to improve their lives is to own their own house. One of the, um, interesting statistics to to to to allow people to understand the benefits of social housing and how building more houses is imperative is that in Christchurch there was a big earthquake. We all know about that, right? Same time Japan had a big earthquake in the first. I think two years since both of those quakes New [01:24:00] Zealand was proud to announce it had built 500 odd houses. Great news. Do you know how many Japan built in the same time frame? Over 70,000. Their government provided housing for people who they knew were desperate and needed somewhere to live. So they got in and did it. They didn't build million dollar fancy police, police stations. They built houses. I think [01:24:30] on that note. Uh, given the time, I think we should probably bring the session. Not, um I want to thank our speakers as well. Thank everyone. Here. Um, we have, uh, afternoon tea. I think we're being served, and then we'll have our final afternoon session. So thank you, everybody.
This page features computer generated text of the source audio. It may contain errors or omissions, so always listen back to the original media to confirm content.
Tags