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Hello, everyone. Welcome to unsettled diasporas. Um, so in case you didn't know this panel discussion is around, um, carving out spaces for feminism when you are marginalised. And obviously our particular genre is asian. Um, yeah. So, first off, why is going to open our panel with a bit of context around a zine Malo Yellow Cool. Um, hi, everyone. Thanks for coming. Um, yeah. I started in mellow yellow because I was feeling, I guess, [00:00:30] a kind of disconnect with my ethnic background, I think particularly in an ancestral sense. Um, an awareness of that kind of disconnect came from engaging in decolonization and learning about how to be an alliance and in support of around the foreshore and seabed confiscation in 2004. Um, and around then there's lots of conversations around, or Waitangi and a lot around bicultural, which was a conversation seen to be between Maori and [00:01:00] and I wondered where I fit in as a Chinese diaspora person. Um, whose parents grew up in Malaysia. So I wondered where I fitted in, um, working with Maori and within Maori. It became clear to me that people operating as individuals um yeah, weren't kind of weren't as trusted or were trusted less, in a sense, um, because it seemed to be more about, um, you know who you are was [00:01:30] around who your people are and who speaks for you and who you speak for, um, collectively. So it seemed in that world that the strength and the responsibilities and the complicities and solidarity were more of a collective thing rather than an individual thing. Um and so I think most people who are part of some kind of marginality, uh, kind of know this in some sense Where the whole, you know, with the same brush? Um, [00:02:00] yeah. Speaks to that. And so some of you will be familiar when you have your parents or your grandparents say stuff like, Oh, you know, if you do this, you'll bring shame on the family name. You know, you'll bring shame on the village and you'll bring shame upon our people. Um, you know, So, yeah, so I think that's, um, kind of the in some ways, the stink side of things. Um, you know, as in Why? Why? Just because if I smoke cigarettes or, um, [00:02:30] drink or am gay or trans or I have mental health issues or I'm unemployed. Why should that, uh, reflect badly on on my family or on my ethnicity? Um, so, yeah, I think at the same time the upside of this, if you can call it an upside, uh is that there's a slightly intangible cohesion in a lot of ways, for better or for worse, that moves us and shapes us collectively as a people's whatever, whatever that actually means, you know? So I started [00:03:00] yellow because I wanted to find other people like me, uh, other Asian people that wanted to unsettle our diaspora, settling on our terms and our ways, um, and the terms of our ancestors, rather than on, I guess, kind of like angsty terms. And for me, this meant searching for my ancestors and their tales and journeys to understand what my obligations are or our obligations are, um, based on. Also, I guess, being my ancestors, [00:03:30] if that makes any sense, um, kind of like what? What they would have wanted. Uh, given the injustices of these lands, we create our homes on, uh, and the benefits and complicities that we participate in regarding the theft and colonisation of Maori land, And I suppose I see it as work that we have to do rather than work that I have to do. So I believe these obligations are handed down to us ancestry. So in the first edition of Mala Yellow, there are tales about various people's [00:04:00] ancestors Um, some here who were in the original group of young, uh, young people when we were doing, like, education and Decco learnings and actions, um, and anti-racism work. And the other aspect of identity is us. And we, rather than just me, is I guess, I don't know. Yeah, what? We could call broadly Asian feminism, if that is at all, even a useful grouping. Um, I guess for me, that's about exploring and confronting the power [00:04:30] laden structures. Um, of other kind of older inherited, um yeah, obligations. Intentions, Um, and Asian, you know, as we know, is a kind of very broad coverall term that doesn't speak particularly well or meaningfully to colonisation and state and empire within the greater Asian region. Um, particularly, I guess, with me in regards to China being a very long standing empire and nation that it is, and the violence that happens in, [00:05:00] uh, internally as well as externally. Um, that comes with Empire and Nation states. So, yeah, I guess it's how do we navigate that as diaspora peoples living in settler states. Um, and also, what are some of the methods? What are some of our methods and resistances and processes when we address inequities and oppressions within our own cultures, families and lineages? Um, yeah. So for me, mela yellow and my participation, and I guess, [00:05:30] like Asian activist stuff, um is about Yeah, I guess. Structural collective stuff. If that's, uh, you know, and about kind of diaspora about being a settler, being a migrant, Um, about how that all fits in with, you know, global nation statehood, Um, and then also about creating space to address the ills of racism and internalised racism. Um, and how culture and family affects us regarding sexuality and gender. [00:06:00] Um, you know how what state, social and familial violence looks like. Um, what? How? How language loss affects us. Um, and what are some of the social pressures around, like jobs and kids and having partners that can also be quite culturally particular at times, So yeah, I guess I'm having this loose grouping over the last, I don't know, like, eight years. Seven years? I'm not really sure, uh, for the last wee while has, um yeah, helped [00:06:30] me to have lots of clarity, um, and sustenance, which has enabled. Yeah, I think, um, networks to grow and for me to be a bit clearer, slightly around how I cultivate my practise of social justice in a Yeah, so, yeah, I don't actually know. Yeah. 2005. I think it was after For and seabed. Which means it was [00:07:00] after 2004. So, and thank you for that really far reaching context. Why? It's awesome to hear. Um, So the format for this is quite loose, and I think we're just going to kind of ask each other questions and get some responses from the group. Was that your sort of vision? I kind of it to be a kind of conversation between us about some of the things that we, um, want [00:07:30] to talk about and share with you. Um, I guess I can talk a little bit about, um my connection to meow yellow And, um, some of the things that from the first issue. It was actually, um, really eye opening for me when I got I think I was given the zine, um, by someone. And at the time, I did not know any other, um, Asian people involved in grassroots social justice or feminist activism. And, [00:08:00] um and I was really trying to understand some of the issues around being Chinese on colonised land as well. And with the conversations being majority, um, bicultural, it was really, um I guess validating to see someone else talking about it from a similar background. And so I got in touch with Y, and we, um, worked on the second issue, I think, in 2007, um, I'm [00:08:30] better at moving decks and yeah, and from there, um, we decided that maybe there are probably more people like us, um, that we can connect with and get them on board to contribute. Um, so from there, it kind of grew. Now we have about six issues. Um, they come up pretty irregular, like whenever we get round to doing it. Um, and sometimes we all kind of travel around the world as well. And actually, some of our contributors aren't from here. [00:09:00] um, been all over the world. So, uh, there's various perspectives in the scene. So, I I tried to avoid talking, actually, but, um, here I am, uh, so I was going to talk about this thing of others, other others in in a kind of New Zealand colonised context. So, um, I guess being being a recently colonised country, it's pretty common more increasingly so to have people like me mixed people, you know, popping [00:09:30] up everywhere. And, um, people are asking you where you're from. And I guess the thing that I thought about in relation to this panel was the feeling of not so strongly identifying as pakeha or not so strongly identifying as Chinese, but that category of other being a really kind of defining identity for me. Um, more so than kind of any other blood, identity or whatever. You want to call that doing scare quotes for people who are listening to this? Um, yeah, and And [00:10:00] I guess me kind of feeling more that I aligned with other others than other Chinese or other, um, pakeha. And I'm going to single out Sally, and I'm going to single out Heather wherever she is. um, and people like that who I feel also understand that difficulty of, um not always being so welcomed by one parent group, Um, and having to kind of carve out another [00:10:30] space with other people who experience that kind of detachment or, um, let's wait. There's another way of describing it. Someone else. Sorry, Yeah, kind of alienation. And I guess especially because, like, I, I suppose in like a New Zealand context, we're very familiar. Or or there's an understanding that, um, for Maori, you have the ability to, and that's kind of enough of a claim, and in a way you can kind of say it, and that's [00:11:00] true. But I feel like for Chinese at least, how the how, the way I feel like I'm presented. You have to really pass. And because because I don't pass and it seems to be a kind of pure blood thing, I'm doing scarecrows again. Um, it's very hard to feel a part of that group, and instead the the other group is kind of the one that that I belong to mostly, and I feel like that comes into play in all the forms. You know, when I give blood. It kind of says ethnicity. [00:11:30] Other, You know, all sorts of things like that. Um, so those weren't very coherent thoughts, but that was kind of what I wanted to talk about. Does anybody else want to contribute to that or anyone in the audience that felt like they had They had something they wanted to expand on. Oh, yeah. Cool. Yeah, me too. Um, as a double diaspora kid. Kind of like you, I suppose, like I'm Indian, but I'm Malaysian Indian. And so that connection to India [00:12:00] is very distant and remote. And I had never set foot into India until 2009. I don't know sometime. Um, it was the first and only time. And, um, yeah, I really the identification with just being other is something that really, really resonates with me. I think, um, as a migrant, I feel that's the common experience amongst all migrants, you know, And and that's how we get to know each other. [00:12:30] And it feels like it's a very it's a very different Where are you from? From question that I get It's It's like a where are you from? And, you know, obviously new Zealand's never never satisfactory answer. Um, and then and then if you kind of tell people why you look different, they kind of tell you, I know, But you no, it's not Chinese I had it for No, it's not Chinese, maybe Filipino, and you're like, No, I've just told you the answer like, thank you for your professional opinion. You know, it's like a kind of a weird [00:13:00] kind of, yeah, the place to be in. Um, someone tried to hit on me the other day by asking me where I was from, and I replied to South, um and that really confused them. But also not enough to, like, stop them continuing with the play that so they're like, Oh, yeah, that that sounds really exotic. I like That's what Auckland buddies. I think it's interesting [00:13:30] what you have touched on in relation to, like, not feeling with one group or the other. I think, um, in a way that is kind of culturally relevant to, um those of us that are like 1.5 generation. I think we feel that with, like, culturally like, you know, when I go back to China, I don't fit in as Chinese. But when I'm here, I don't fit in, as you know, culture either either. So it's kind of the in between us. [00:14:00] Yeah, Kirsty, maybe you might be able to relate to as well. Um, I was thinking about the multiplicities of, like, privilege and, um, marginality in saying so. I am Han Chinese on my mother's side, which means that we're colonists, you know, like Chinese Imperialists in Singapore, where I where I was born. Um, And on my father's side, they were indentured labourers from the poll tax, um, gold [00:14:30] mining. And so there was a lot of yellow peril stuff there. There was a lot of xenophobia. Um, And now, being on this land here, um, I have a lot of, you know, privilege in terms of, um I guess assimilation and also economically. But when you walk down the street, you encounter a lot of micro aggressions, all of that stuff. So it's kind of different navigation of that sort of stuff. [00:15:00] And I wanted to ask everyone about language and what kind of role you feel that that plays in, um, space and accent privilege. Yeah. Or like for me, I, I only speak English because, um, my family came to New Zealand in the eighties, and so that was kind of the doctrine of the day to simulate or die. Um, and so being able to speak fluent un accented English was really important. But that meant we lost so much. [00:15:30] Um, and coming to terms with that has been a really important part of my journey, I think, Yeah, I think I can really agree with the whole language and accent kind of thing, because, um, I was born in New Zealand, but I lived in Beijing, in Singapore when I was younger and even being in an international school, you know, you have this American accent. I came back when I was 12 and having to have, you know, a very Chinese face being like, Who are you? Where are you from? You know, and having to Unluck the American accent into something key people accepted [00:16:00] was that it actually is, like, a privilege and coming back into, um, New Zealand at the age of 12 as well. Like, there was a lot of other first generation, um, you know, Chinese kids that I was hanging out with and like That's how you sort of like as a um you know how people navigate the differences between the types of Asian. I always find that really, um like, Oh, it kind of really bothered me that, you know, one person did Lisa because they just did not have, you know, the key accent and then returning [00:16:30] to those more first generation communities the like idea of being a banana or an Oreo. You know where, um because you don't have language, That means you're you're not properly, uh, an Asian person. Yeah. Yeah, I felt like that. That was kind of my mom's experience a little bit. So being the eldest of four and her parents not speaking English and being the kind of translator for the family and really appreciating how important it was to have this English language skill that you can kind of be as [00:17:00] good as everyone else with or something. And I feel like maybe in some way, that kind of influenced her career as a kind of proof reader type person being just like better than the white people at their own language or something like that. You know, I felt like it kind of that quickly. She kind of learned that was a way that you could B respected or claim back some of the power that's been taken from you or something. Mhm. Hm. I had a recent experience with, like, [00:17:30] um, deciding whether to speak Chinese or English. Um, So I I came to New Zealand when I was six, so I didn't have any schooling in china. Um, but I did know the language. It was my first language. Um, but I remember when I got here, um, when I was kind of growing up up to intermediate school, I was kind of like trying to shy away from learning [00:18:00] the language. And that's because, you know, like, white supremacy exists. And English is the dominant kind of, um, way of communicating. And I remember, you know, my parents, um, making me go to Chinese classes and stuff like that, and I didn't want to go make excuses. Um, but now I really regret that, Um, and my recent experience was, um I work for, uh, an organisation called, and we do, um, campaigns around [00:18:30] family violence in our communities. And I was speaking to Chinese media and I was trying really hard to be able to communicate what I wanted to say in Mandarin. Um, but I just couldn't do it. And the reporter was just, like, just speak English and yeah, that felt Yeah, that felt kind of like, Oh, I really need to learn more. And I guess you know, I've thought a lot about going back to China or being in an environment that speaks more Mandarin to be able to maintain [00:19:00] it because, I mean, I think it's hard if you never learnt it to begin with. But when when you have, it's easier to pick it up again. So, yeah, I guess we, um I originally wanna talk about feminism as well, right? And, um, how that relates to our lives. And I think actually, scene making is one of the ways that I got. Um, I guess that's the word. [00:19:30] Like it was a form of, like, consciousness raising for me. Like I learned about feminism through zines and making zings because you kind of like, um can kind of talk about personal stuff and relate it to political things and try to understand the bigger picture through the process of writing and connecting with other people. Yeah, and it's non hierarchical as well. Like, I quite like that. It's kind of person to person, and you can say what you want. It's un censored. [00:20:00] Doesn't have your polish writing. Yeah, I came to feminism through academia, which was really weird. Um, because you're, like, one brown face and a million non. Um, And then, um, so finding a space where my feminism actually made sense to me personally and wasn't about one trying to save myself from my own culture because that was very yeah. Didn't [00:20:30] really resonate. Um, and, um, finding a post colonialism interception or kind of feminism that, um, actually was true to who I was and didn't come from somewhere else. Um, and finding feminists that were Asian and had, um, been really involved, um, for a long time. And and the really rich history of Asian feminism was really important to me. And, um So when I finished my undergraduate degree, I went and worked in both Thailand [00:21:00] and Malaysia, Um, in feminist NGO S. And, um, so being in a completely Asian feminist space was, um, interesting and very challenging. Um, but also amazing. Yeah. Where did everyone else, like do feminism? My mom, Um, my mom, but also specifically Asian feminism is from And Shasha came to uni one day and they were talking [00:21:30] about which is a feminist. Um, domestic violence agency does amazing work. And at that time, I was part of another feminist organisation, and it wasn't doing it for me. And only in retrospect, I realised it was because they were white liberal cupcake feminists, you know, um and they were casually transphobic and they were casually racist, and that really [00:22:00] didn't do it for me. Um, so I mean, actually Wow. Yeah, I think you played a part in it for me too. Probably. So. I was already kind of come through academia and stuff and had some friends, moms who were pretty political, and that was it was all starting to stew in my head. And then what class are we in together? Is it human sexualities? I want to say or something? Yeah, And there was this, like, little kid who used to come to school on a push like the one that nobody, nobody even takes a push scooter anywhere. [00:22:30] And it was me. And she's like, just scooted to class, just totally unashamed pack up her scooter during the class and would sit there, and then she'd pop it open and scoot wherever she was next going. I was like, Man, who is this kid that scoots around? And then, um And then we became friends, and it was good. Um, and then I ended up living in a super feminist flat, and it was It was great. It all just kind of grew. And why was there? I was there, and Sally and Nicola were there, and Heather was there for a bit. [00:23:00] Um, we all just kind of fed off each other and wound each other up, mostly Sally. But, um, yeah, that was really formative for me in many ways, that the house is way more educational than being at university, having conversations with real people. Not just kind of stuffy white lecturers and stuff. Yeah, Yeah, at least. Yeah. Oh, no. I was just gonna say it's just so much more intersectional when when it's real and it's people and it's you're talking about it and people's lives and stuff. You know, [00:23:30] I always say that I had my best feminist education from the bloggers sphere like, that's where I really found into, like, intersectionality and feminism. That was not stupid. Yeah, it's a technical term. Yeah, it's very, um how about you? What? Um, I guess I don't really know. Yeah, I guess I was aware that there was feminism. Um, and that [00:24:00] a lot of it was around, Uh, I guess stuff that just didn't seem really relevant to me around, um, like, work and stuff. And I knew that. You know, while there was a struggle for a white woman to be able to enter the workforce, I knew my mother was cleaning people's houses. So I'm like, Wow, she's really working. Um, so, yeah, there was a lot of stuff that I guess didn't fit. And I I could see that it was like a white feminism. So I just knew there had There has to be other [00:24:30] other forms. And so, yeah, I guess reading around and, um, seeing, I guess lots of the kind of participation within knew that, um, yeah, uh, that woman have always been integral to social justice movements. Um, and that it wasn't always like a You didn't. You didn't always have to caucus off. So, um yeah, I remember hearing, I guess about one of the tensions of Was it reclaim [00:25:00] the night or something? And there was a conversation where? Yeah, I guess Maori woman was saying, Well, we men should march behind us. And I was thinking like, Oh, OK, that's really interesting. So, yeah, I guess from there, um, reading lots of different things around like indigenous feminism and third world feminism. Um, yeah, maybe you be like, OK, well, it's obviously connected. So how what does that look like? You know, what does it look like when we organise? And what does that look [00:25:30] like in our meetings? What does it look like in our houses, That kind of thing Who ends up doing the dishes? Um, yeah, that kind of stuff. And I think it's really important to acknowledge how colonial white feminism actually is and the roots of it in that way. Um, yeah. Does anyone have anything they want to say about that? Um, yeah, I. I think my first experiences with feminism was, um, working in predominantly [00:26:00] women groups. And, um, yeah, I kind of felt like in that space, there wasn't like much of an acknowledgement of other cultures. And, like I felt like, you know, that kind of had to be an assimilated, um, personal colour to be able to even, like, communicate on that level. Um, so I had enough of it, um, and found other people, [00:26:30] which was really it's hard to express, like that feeling of affinity when you kind of find someone else that has had, like, similar experiences or can share, um, or, like, you know, it's a shared understanding of what it is like to be, um, Asian or, you know, socialised as women or, you know, read as female. Um, these these experiences are [00:27:00] things that we can kind of like, um, leverage off to talk about other political issues because, um, you know all these forms of oppression like we experience them and they're not like something out there. And so it's kind of better that, you know, you can start having self determined spaces and movements where, um, your experiences are reflected. So [00:27:30] does you wanna kind of maybe share some of those things like experiences that they might have had and maybe dominated feminist faces? Do you want me to say something. You're looking at me. Um, so I'm involved in a lot of more mainstream women's groups. Um, like the secret radical person infiltrating them. Um, and I feel like like, it's a weird kind of level of respectability. Politics where I sit there and kind of go, Yes. I am [00:28:00] so well behaved and good. Yes. You know, um, and, yeah, I guess they're They're all old white feminists, and and they're all very kind of sick and wave and that we always have these conversations, which is like, Why are there no young people? Why are there no people of colour? And it's like because you guys keep them out, you know, they're just There's not really an awareness that that so much of that identity excludes so much and doesn't make people want [00:28:30] to join. And I guess my involvement there feels like a way to kind of slowly chip away at that. Um, even though it's it's really exhausting. Um, and so So, like, the issues that they work on are really centred around white women. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. And very kind of like classist as well. You know, they're very kind of, um I don't know. And the thing with, like challenging, um, white women in these spaces, it's [00:29:00] It's a whole another struggle because such a power imbalance and having to see nods. And then it kind of like, you know, what Kirsty was saying, Like white women's tears is like It becomes about them like they're hurt by being accused of being racist. And then it's like, you know, like, just resent their experiences. Yeah, for sure. And it always it comes back to the things that they fought for. And I feel like, Yeah, cool [00:29:30] pat on the back. Thank thank you. You know what about things that are affecting people today? You know, it's always kind of like you guys have it so easy now you don't know shit. All of you know, I find that really, um, dismissive. It's really hard to kind of engage with people and and work towards something better when they keep holding on to the past. And it's funny. It's funny as well because, you know, they felt that about the previous generation iteration of feminists, and yet they're unable to see that they kind of put [00:30:00] it on Yeah, on us, and I think it's important to acknowledge that you have that same dynamic in Asian feminist spaces as well. This idea that you haven't paid your dues, you haven't earned your place, Um, in the movement. And I guess part of it is cultural, like this idea of respecting your elders. Um, but, yeah, those dynamics do happen, and they're really hard, um, to kind of shift and to move in the same conversations [00:30:30] about why are there no young people? Well, because you don't invite them. You want them to come, But you don't want them to say anything. Gonna be there for, like, a kind of box ticking sense. Yes. We got some young people. Good. Um, when I was working in Malaysia, I went to a conference, and, um, they were really showcasing the fact that they had, like, um really, um, centred young people in this conference. But what young people were invited to do [00:31:00] was to give the flowers to the speakers. Um, that was their involvement. Um, yeah. So that was interesting. Yeah. I feel like some of the groups that I'm involved with they're always trying to do various get together things, but there's always a charge, and it's like $20 and I'm like, That's immediately leaving people out. You know, it's super exclusive to have a cover charge. That's that's actually a lot of money. Um, of course, you're only going to get a subset of people [00:31:30] that can afford that. And they're like white, middle class retired women. That's who you get. And then they come and talk about the issues without anyone reason who should be involved. You know, I think it's embed in cultural A as well. Like, for instance, today is National Poetry Day today, on and off in, in addition to this. But, um, this week, for instance, there was a discussion held being held at [00:32:00] the Auckland Public Library, uh, about feminism. And, um, we were having a look at that and thought, you know, like, Oh, yeah, that's I mean, you know, it's It's an assumption made there that, of course, women are going to control the discussion on what is Yeah, but you know, like and but a spaces spaces have already been made by people of colour and by Maori women, um, for our voices to be heard, and [00:32:30] yet there's still no you know, honest, inclusive, um, you know, willingness to dialogue with us. And so, you know, like so big ups to you guys for organising this today, because it's it's really essential to have this conversation and to be having it continuously. Um, and, you know, I just I just want to add to this. In 1985 I went to the UN. Um, what was it? A women's forum in Sydney and [00:33:00] and Nairobi at both of those conferences. The women, of course, who were organising those conferences were were white women. You know, um, from around Australia, the U, the, uh, Europe etcetera. And they all got their own perspectives on you know how that power works. And it was fucking frightening. But what I want to say is that, um, you know, we all have feminism in our own cultures, and it's really essential to keep, um, forging the way forging [00:33:30] that, that that voice to be heard in, um, in international, you know, forums such as that and the the that you you've been talking about to always continue that that voice should be heard. It has to be. It has to be maintained. And the racism back then in the eighties was quite, you know, it was like I thought it was in your face, but to them, it's just an ordinary kind of day to day kind of thing. But if we hadn't have done that, um, [00:34:00] it wouldn't have, um we wouldn't have been able to have ignited that, um, sense of solidarity with other women of colour. Aboriginal women, American Indian woman, Asian woman, Um, all of our all of our colours. Yeah. So yeah. So, yeah, I just want to say that that's all. I think that's really interesting thing. Like within New Zealand, there's very little like public dialogue, for example, between like [00:34:30] Asians and Maori and indigenous people. Um, and how those, like migrants sit kind of uncomfortably on stolen land. I think it's something that we've all write and talk about a lot. Um, but the idea that there's always whiteness facilitating that discussion, and we're just invited to the table. But we can't directly sort of sit down together. Um, yeah. With the guest speakers. Yeah, more than little tokens. [00:35:00] Um, is there anything you want to add around that? Um I'm just thinking we've got 15 minutes left because we finish at 2. 38. Um, is there anything that we want to talk to? Um, yeah. Yeah, Well, we have someone here with a Chinese sounding last name. I like to be here to talk about housing. Well, I mean, we can all talk about I'm not buying it enough. [00:35:30] Did you get your t-shirt? Yeah, like it is too nationalism. Um, I also have a property investor hat. Everyone knows what your agenda is here. My gender, what your agenda is. I don't know. I don't know how long. Um um I I don't actually know where to start. Um, [00:36:00] I guess any acknowledgement about housing issues has to be taking place on, uh, we have to acknowledge that it's taking place on colonising stolen land. So anything, any change making venture, anything has to be in solidarity with, um I stand in solidarity with the Tamaki housing group. It's a group of ladies out in G I who were actively fighting the evictions and demolitions and destruction of their community. Um, [00:36:30] and that's happening in the name of gentrification. Privatisation. Um, they're also mostly G. I has a massive history of, um being home to Maori war battalions and, um, yeah, it's a It's another form of neo colonialism and it's absolutely disgusting. Um, but being I guess one of the only Asian faces [00:37:00] in the whole housing struggle, um, is a really funny place to be in because because it's a bicultural rhetoric. And, um, you've got the government saying no to asset sales. You know, um, they're taking our land. It's like, Well, you've already taken the land like it doesn't make any It doesn't make any sense. But us as model minorities were used as Pons. So we're, um, useful in some discussions [00:37:30] and, um, scapegoated and others and xenophobic rhetoric is really, really easy because it's deep seated hatred. I think it's deep seated other of people who are kind of, you know, um, it's an open discussion, but it's a I think, continual exploration into [00:38:00] where I sit personally in this, Um, but always, I think fundamentally in solidarity with yeah, it makes me kind of think from what you were saying about from what you were saying is what what you were saying, Kirsty, is how I guess you know when people say, Oh, when I'm asked where I'm from, When Asian people or whoever the you know who's in fashion that day to be used as a scapegoat becomes used as a scapegoat. What has happened [00:38:30] is that I guess thinking about it as colonisation has disrupted or damaged the the relationship that could have been formed. So you know when So it's really different for me when someone who is ask me where I'm from, as opposed to someone who's Maori asking me where I'm from because they kind of what you're trying to establish is different. Um, yeah, and I think the relationship has been damaged as well, so that we because things are [00:39:00] mediated not only through the English language of which we, you know, we we speak and need to speak to talk to each other. Now, um that, yeah, the relationships have been damaged, So we haven't been able to settle, you know, um, honourably and in negotiation with, um that all that is mediated again through. And so, yeah, you know, whether it's housing because people are concerned about their security and needing [00:39:30] places to live or whether it's what language and whose language should be taught in secondary schools or, um, you know, conversations around feminism and who needs to be saved. From whom? That kind of thing. Um, yeah. What are the ways in which we can continue to bypass? I guess that white noise or that white disruption to have those conversations outside to repair repair the relationships that have been damaged through colonisation that I mean, we might [00:40:00] have damaged those relationships ourselves anyway, you know, it's not like, Yeah, we're all perfect, but yeah. How do we continue to have those connections? Really? Yeah. And I think for me personally, I've always seen within my own family and culture the idea that assimilation is contingent on acceptance by whiteness. And that means by putting ourselves at odds with, um, and participating in that colonial [00:40:30] framework because that's how you get ahead as a migrant. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's all mediated by the state as well. Definitely. I totally agree. Yeah. Um, is there more things on the piece of paper we want to talk about? Yeah. Yeah. Hm. [00:41:00] Yeah. Does anybody want to add anything or ask anything or we're we're experts. Here's your chance and our non hierarchical way. And so those of you who kind of identify as culturally other and feel kind of displaced. Do you find yourself having to sort of inhabit have the white sort of the dominant white [00:41:30] spaces for feminism that we kind of really dominate our sort of feminist? Do you find yourself having to be the go between between all of these groups? Oh, well, yeah, I guess I am. In a sense, like I, I feel yeah, especially that within all these kind of white groups I'm part of where I don't know what they think of me. And it's hard to know. Am I just not the white person there, or am I the kind of token person person they're comfortable with? [00:42:00] Yeah, it's like when people call you, like, say, you're not like all the other Asians, as if it's a compliment. Yeah, that kind of. That's when you know people think of you as being safe. Any other question? I was just gonna say, and I wonder how much of that is actually generated by me. You know me feeling so familiar with white culture as well that that [00:42:30] I kind of almost have gravitated to it in a sense you know that That these groups, um maybe while I don't actually feel fully accepted there or I don't feel totally comfortable with them, I'm familiar enough with kind of white culture to know how to be in it, if you know what I mean. And that's a privilege. In a way, it's such a privilege that you can be kind of read as white, that people you can kind of be in a space without kind of overt racism directed at you all the time. Yeah, yeah, I guess. I also [00:43:00] wonder if it's strategic in the sense of there are There are spaces that, um you know that if you act a certain way, you will be granted access. So if you dress in a certain way, talk in a certain way whatever you know, you know that you can get get in and that stink, and that's also strategic. So if we want access, we do these certain things, and I think there's a degree where we we know we know what we're doing, you know, And you you do it to get stuff done or you do it to feed your family or to get that job or to get that house [00:43:30] or whatever you need to do. And so then I guess what else is also part of the strategy, you know, like, yeah. Yeah. And I guess I feel like for me, part of it is it sounds so kind of tactical, but like some kind of infiltration of those groups kind of come and be like I am. I'm very nice. Kind of, you know, talk about the things that they don't want to talk about racism and transphobia this kind of stuff. And then they have to have a chat about it because you liked me. I was so nice talk about it. [00:44:00] Um, put some shit on their agenda that they maybe otherwise wouldn't have come across. You must be different working with the white woman. Yeah. Have you? Have you? Have you? Have you had, like, any experience working with younger things? Um, other than my friends in groups and well, and stuff like that. But, um [00:44:30] yeah, I know. What What have I got with these old white women? Do I keep going back to them? You. Any other questions from the floor? I am wondering, um, you mentioned a while back that you were? Yeah. Um, So, me in particular, I'm really influenced by South Asian [00:45:00] feminism because it's something that really speaks to me. Um, so, and especially when I moved back to Asia, which, like, repatriation, is a whole another thing in and of itself. But anyway, um, like, um oh, man, you've put me on the spot. Now, you know, when you're trying to think of things and your brain goes blank? Um, yes. A guy? Um, yeah. Um, yeah. So many. And there's [00:45:30] like once you kind of start digging, it opens up this whole plethora of voices that if you grow up learning feminism in like a white dominant space, you just don't even realise even exists. And it's quite mind blowing. Um, like, for me, I'm Mali, which comes from like the south of India. And, um, that has a really rich history of women's participation in politics and activism. And, um, like women in my culture became worse [00:46:00] off through colonisation, which is not a narrative that you hear very often. Um, but it is very true. So yeah, um, that's why I love the Internet, you know, like we all love the Internet. Was there any acknowledgement of those feminists that you just mentioned in academia? Um, a little bit. Um, I'd like to say that because I did. I studied [00:46:30] political studies and the Auckland political studies. Um, faculty is very critical theory oriented, which is nice. Um, and so there was some It wasn't as, um whitewashed as some other departments. Maybe, but very little. Um, yeah, I think I we read. And probably that was about it. Because, like for me, when when those kind of authors were included, it was really, like a special topic of one week in your whole class [00:47:00] kind of thing. And it's always facilitated by your white lecturer. And it's kind of contextualised as this other kind of Here's what some radical people were doing while this mainstream stuff was happening. You know, it never really kind of brought to the front or Yeah, it's never centred. Um, but yeah, yeah, so much. Judith, don't get me wrong. I love Judith Butler, but like, she wasn't the first [00:47:30] or the only person to have those ideas. Yeah, and the bitter taste is it's all in English. Yes, it's all mediated through English and academia. What's published and what's not. Um, yeah, I have a question. Are you talking about my progressions earlier? And I know that this is, you know, Pacific Island community. I was just, um because this is these [00:48:00] are things that you kind of do. And it's funny when you have to be on a panel and, like, what are the things that are specific and like? So, if there are like provisions on that and you talk about strategies and the Z is one response, for example, in this panel is another and you do such, you know, sort of intersectional work. If you had strategies that, as you know, their micro aggressions are their micro responses are [00:48:30] So I just wondered if, as a group you have Yeah, I think for all of the white people have to leave the room. I'm joking. No, I mean because, like I said, when it happens to me, people say things like, you speak English so well, I'm just so standing, you know, like because it just [00:49:00] it happens so much that it kind of like you just laugh, laugh or cry that I just wondered if you had any thoughts on that Sort of like because it's I feel like responding to yourself. When people ask me when I'm where I'm from is a micro resistance. The people are always asking me where are you from? And I want to say Where are you from? You know this [00:49:30] person? I was born here, but you were here. You also, you know, like like Oh, so you came here. I was born here. So your sisters came at 18. They ask you like I don't know. You probably think you can ask me these things. You're so entitled. I wanna deal with it like OK, just like another [00:50:00] micros assistance that I have is insisting on the proper pronunciation of my name and not allowing people to call me by shortened versions anymore. Um, yeah, that's really important to me. Yeah, downstairs at the zine table did you do? It means that we written like a for the prices of the zine. We written like a 1 to $5 and you pay what you want depending on the the privileged scale, it's really just to kind [00:50:30] of pay what you want. But people are like oh, quite confronted because they have to go. Oh, I have to quantify all my privileges right now. Just and that's quite funny. It's, like a lighthearted way. Yeah, And then I think a couple of our, um wait, let me get this right. Read left. Some of them read, left to right. And some of them read right to left. So the opposite of what other people think And [00:51:00] it's that's often quite people really perplexed, Don't know how to read it. And we're like, Oh, yeah, yeah. So I think, yeah, I guess little things that we do do with that kind of disrupts things a little bit. And so yeah, and like for me, surrounding yourself with people that get it, you know, like especially just being able to be, just come home and be like, Oh, you know, And that microaggression book we made, we made a microaggression book [00:51:30] because so frequently we were confronted with shit that pissed us off. And then we'd kind of talk it out and, you know, become this phrase like put it in the book and the act of actually having to put it in the book was just too stressful. But the book just remains empty. We never got to writing in the book because it was just like, Oh, it was just too too intense to actually have to. It makes it too real. It just enough to kind of say it out loud and know that there's the book. If it was really serious, you could put it in the book. Yeah, actually, like the other day my car got towed. [00:52:00] And then when I went to, like, pick up my car, the guy was like, Where are you from? This white guy And like, you know, I get real tired of answering like the series of answers. So I'm just like China, and he was like, Oh, I'm going there soon. Where would you recommend it? Like, I don't know. I haven't been everywhere in China. I'm not gonna give you free travel advice. I think my car has been towed, but [00:52:30] yeah, it's like, really annoying that, you know, it's like you're a representative of China, everything about it and give me free travel advice. No. Did anybody else want to share any kind of micro resistance techniques? I just let a beat go, so it's like a silent for a beat. And then I'll answer because you feel embarrassed you I hate you. That has a really nice [00:53:00] there was one time. This is not very much, but I suppose there was one time I said, I do that, uh, this one guy really this, like, very wrong. And I think I was really, really wrong going back home. And I'm not telling you where it is. Yeah, [00:53:30] because I found that same South instead of New Zealand or Auckland or something like that is really specific and very confusing to people. So it really shuts them up, and then you don't have to follow along with this the subsequent questions, but yeah, I'm not really sure about the ethics of this, but I pretend that I can't speak English like it got me out of school. He So now The other day, I searched up Chinese accents on YouTube [00:54:00] because I wanted to get rid of my Kiwi accent. Seriously, because it gives me a lot of access, right? And someone turns around and like, Hello. And you're like, Hello. Like they treat you differently from when you're like, hello. But again, I'm not really sure how that makes me uncomfortable. I don't know. Or just identifying yourself. [00:54:30] Yeah, so they don't have to do it for you being as facetious as possible. Yeah, I think it was one time. Like someone asked us where we were from, and we just stared at them like, confused, like What do you mean? You know what What organisation We're from like, you know, like, you know, it could be a number of things. Usually it doesn't surprise me at all, but this is not a very, um, [00:55:00] polite conversation, but, um, the other night, this guy, he you know, it was the familiar hands on the body when they're dancing behind you. And I was like, broke it off me. He was just like, Oh, you're a disgusting Chinese bitch anyway, you know, like fucking disgusting Chinese bitch. And I was like, Oh, you know, I usually hear disgusting, bitch, But you don't have to. No, you're [00:55:30] just up to the game. That's one less question you have to answer. That's true. And so we come to the end of our time now. I'm so sorry. What a story. Does anyone have any brief final remarks? Thanks for coming out. Please Plug. Um I want to do a Zen and it's called Invasion, specifically [00:56:00] about the housing crisis and the xenophobic Asian invasion. I didn't make it up, but it was Pat Booth and Winston Peters. In the nineties, they had a series of articles called Invasion Invasion. Anyway, but I run out of time. So if anyone wants to contribute or like, do something about it, it would be awesome. And we can make t-shirts, right? Yeah. Thank you. Oh, that is [00:56:30] us.
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