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My name is Shana Francis Sari, and I am from India. Uh, I'm from Mumbai. I am a doctoral student. I'm doing my PhD from, uh, Tata Institute of Social Sciences, which is in Mumbai. And the topic of my study is the transgender social movement in Tamil LA. Can you tell me a bit about that development? Tamil in India is the first state to introduce a transgender welfare policy. And according to that policy, [00:00:30] transgender people now can get free sex reassignment surgery done in a government hospital. They have, uh, educational quota, and they get scholarship for higher education. And there are various citizenship documents that are given to transgender people in the state of Tamil LA. So there is a transgender welfare board, which is the first board of its kind, in which there are members from the transgender community. And there are also people who are non trans and state [00:01:00] officials. So the board is first of its kind in India. How did that board get established? I think it It it is. It is an effort taken by the transgender community in Tamil Nadu, and it's been a long struggle for them. It was an idea put forth to the government of Tamil Nadu by transgender activists and also supporters of transgender people. [00:01:30] And it was their initiative that made the government to form a welfare board working for the development of transgender people. How does that compare to other parts of India, other parts of India? I can say that Tamil was the only state in which there was a transgender welfare board. After that, there were a few states in which similar initiatives were carried out. So Tamil is a role model in terms of transgender development. What [00:02:00] do the general population think of those initiatives? General population in Tamil Nadu? They think that the government, the present government, which is in Tamil LA it's very supportive to vulnerable communities and drown rodden people. And they have an understanding that transgender people are also a vulnerable population, and they are drown rodent people. And it's because of that the government have had taken a step for them. So people people, [00:02:30] uh, people don't have a comment. People don't have any comment about, uh, the board as such, but they know that the government is very supportive to people from various downtrodden background so it's an understanding among people that because of that, the government would have taken a step for them. It seems very progressive. Yes, yes, it's it's very progressive and you don't find this kind of situation anywhere in any other state in India. So [00:03:00] that's the only state which has a free SRS policy, which has a free education policy which has given a few citizenship documents to transgender people. So these things you don't find in any other parts in India does this mean there is migration from other parts of India into the state? This is given these facilities. These welfare schemes are introduced only for those transgender people who are born in Tamil. It's not this membership is not for [00:03:30] other transgenders who come or migrate from other states in Tamil. Do you know how other transgender communities in India have reacted to these these benefits in the state? I think the other transgender organisations and communities are trying to follow a similar procedure, and after the initiatives taken in Tamil Nadu, they too are approaching [00:04:00] the state government demanding similar schemes for them being transgender in India. What what what are some of the issues that that people face first issue people face is stigma and discrimination. They there are like people are very transphobic. There are hate crimes. Uh, transgender people don't exercise their basic rights except [00:04:30] for the state of Tamil Nadu. Um, there's no job opportunity. So it's It's like violation of human rights. Can you see that changing in the near future? I yes, I. I expect that things are going to change in the near future. Last month there was a meeting organised by the National Law [00:05:00] Services Authorities and the Delhi services authorities, and it was an initiative of the government of India, and they had invited a minister from the Planning Commission. And during during that seminar it was stated that transgender issues are going to be included in the 12 5 year plan in uh, 2012. And I hope that there's a good future for transgender people in India because the issues are going to be included in the five year plan, which is really, [00:05:30] which will be really a benchmark for transgender people in India. Somebody mentioned in one of the sessions earlier that a number of state agencies are now including um, kind of a third sex option or another option in in forms. Is that correct? Yes, There there there is an option. Like apart from male female. There's one more option, called others. So people, those who don't identify themselves as male or female, they can check [00:06:00] the others column. But that that is there is. There is a confusion in that also because there are many transgender people who who don't want to be identified as others. But they prefer to be either called as transgender are some other identity and not as others identity. So with your research, what what? What have you found? What have been the outcomes? I think it's too early to comment. Uh, anything [00:06:30] about my research. I'm at the stage of writing my thesis, and I hope that I'll complete writing my thesis, Um, in a couple of months, and I have I'm also writing a few papers, which will be published in a few international journals. And so I think that will give more details about it, will give a more concrete idea about the situation of transgender people and and and the transgender social movement in Tamil Nadu. Uh, but so far, whatever I have from my field observation [00:07:00] and from my, uh, uh, work. For the past three years, I have realised that Tamil is really, really, uh, a leading state in terms of transgender development and the the transgender community. And, uh, not only transgender community, but non trans people and the supporters of the transgender movement have really taken an effort in reaching to the government, raising their voices and have really worked very hard to [00:07:30] gain this recognition. The conference, uh, you you you've travelled, Uh, a long, long way to to to be here in Wellington. What? What do you want to take out of this conference? Basically, I I'm here to present uh uh, my own paper share about my own work. Share about my PhD work. Um, my own experiences of working with the transgender community and also [00:08:00] I'm here to learn from others and listen to others and understand the situation of transgender people in the Asia Pacific region. So with this learning, when I go back to India, I hope that I have a better understanding of transgender people in the Asia Pacific region, and maybe not now, but maybe later, after completing my PhD. And, uh, I want to do a postgraduate. So maybe at the postgraduate level, I, I will try to see [00:08:30] if I can compare the situation of Indian transgender situation with the other, Uh um, like other countries in the Asia Pacific transgender situation. So I think, uh, in the long run, this conference is really going to help me in my research work. And, of course, there is very little research done in in the area of transgender, and there is great scope for research on the topic of transgender. So I hope that, [00:09:00] um I don't say that I'm contributing a very big thing, but I'm doing I'm doing whatever I'm able to do at my own level. So So whatever contribution I'm able to do, I'm I'm I'm trying my level best to give the best through my research. In the short time that you've been here, have you seen any similarities or differences between transgender people in this part of the world and in India? A few similarities, [00:09:30] uh, as, like stigma, discrimination, transphobia hate crimes, violation of human rights of transgender people. Uh, lack of awareness about transgender community, not only with the government but also amongst the general public. These are a few common threads which I have, which I am able to understand. Uh, so far can you talk a [00:10:00] wee bit about the visibility of transgender people in India? Transgender people are very much visible in India. We have a very rich religious, cultural and historical background. There are many categories which fall under the transgender umbrella. Uh, when we speak about the M two F population, there are categories like the category there are. There are other categories of transgender people who don't associate with the identity, but they identified as D as either as M to F, transsexual [00:10:30] or F two M transsexual or just M to F transgender or F, two M transgender people. So we have a lot of diversity in terms of transgender identities in India. If there was one major change that you would want to see for transgender people in India, what what would that be? One major change for transgender people is that there should be a national level policy for transgender development, which should include, uh, [00:11:00] issues like access to health care, education, employment, property rights, child adoption rights, marriage right to marriage. These are a few basic things which are required, and there are, of course, many other things. But these are the few things that should be compulsorily included in the national transgender policy. So you're saying that all of those things currently do not do not happen? It's currently not happening. Yeah, it's It's It's [00:11:30] like it's only just Tamil Nadu, where you have, like the government, has given few rights. But what are the other states? There are so many other states in India, and the other states should also take an initiative, at least to start with some basic rights. If they are not giving a full meal, at least they should give some, you know, little things. It's not like if they are unable. If the government is unable to give anything [00:12:00] on a larger scale, they should start with some basic things. And maybe in the long run, the government the government will have a better solution for the transgender people. But I think this is a time where the government should realise that transgender people are also human beings and they have a right to live a life with dignity, and they too, have a right to live a decent life, [00:12:30] just like any other. Any other person. If we if we skip ahead 30 years and somebody is listening back to this recording, what would you like to say to them if somebody is listening to this tape after 30 years? Uh, first of all, I'd like to say, uh uh, I'd like to thank the organisers for giving me this opportunity to attend this conference and giving me a full scholarship to come [00:13:00] here to New Zealand in Wellington and present my paper, share about my own research work and also learn from others and also giving me an opportunity to get interviewed. Uh, which I hope somebody is listening after 30 years and I I will be happy 30 years down the line if things change in India and if not only in India but across the globe. Transgender. The entire [00:13:30] transgender community after 30 years says that Yes, we now have a life. We lead a life full of dignity. We are not discriminated anymore. We exercise all rights just like any other human being. And there are no regrets from the transgender community on any issue. By the by the term. Any issue means [00:14:00] everything that the person deserves in his or her life. So I think that is the vision which I am looking forward for 30 years, not 30 years, maybe less than that. But still, if somebody listens to this tape after 30 years, they should be happy that the situation has changed and there is no stigma and discrimination. There's no stigma. Discrimination attached to the transgender identity and transgender people are living are living a dignified [00:14:30] life.
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