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Walking upstairs. You just told me about your experience during homosexual law reform. Would you like to say something about that again? Because, well, I've just turned 58. And while I don't think of myself as old at all, I am going back to homosexual law reform. And in this building, it wasn't as magnificent and as grand as it is in its restoration. Um, there was a would it have been some kind of gathering [00:00:30] here in the town hall, and the two protagonists of the anti were on stage, and I'm just remembering them both. So worked up and and literally spitting with rage against us. And in those days, our paradigms were somewhat more simplistic. I stood under the lesbian woman's flag. Um, with it being OK to talk in New Zealand, that ho homosexuals, as [00:01:00] we were all called then should be put on an island somewhere offshore and separated from the rest of New Zealand. And that was OK to do that in a public place. And what's more, one of these people was an elected MP. So to have come from that to the magnificence of town hall being taken over by this wonderful multiplicity of humanity. Um, and that's happened in my lifetime. [00:01:30] And your own pathway. Well, that journey from, um what people would have thought in those days, a lesbian, a butch lesbian. I had very short hair and sort of stomped around in heavy boots. And, um, boiler boiler sort of suit, as was the clothing of the day I. I mean, I. I think about it a lot. Now, I had tried to find a place of belonging, [00:02:00] and it was best fit at the time. And I realised if I said out loud to myself, I don't fit in this community. I didn't believe I fitted anywhere on planet Earth. So I I hung on somewhat uncomfortably to that place. And it would be for myself, personally, another 20 years before I would find the the space and the support of some pretty special people. Um, Doctor rodenberg, an out lesbian, one of those [00:02:30] people who supported my unfolding of self to reach a place where not only can I walk around town hall, I could say a dance here and feel very comfortable in my own skin and and finding a place of my own voice was trying to explain to someone before that as a younger person, I was very shy and unconfident, and it's almost like two different people. So this conference, [00:03:00] in some respects those that journey is a bit like the journey that many people have. I've gone through Oh, absolutely, as a as a representation of that. And as you were just sharing with me before, you know, people Wellingtons for the first time feeling like they they have a place. There's two things about that. How wonderful that is and isn't. It's so sad that it's taken so long, so many. [00:03:30] It's in my own case, you know, wasted years. And I just say that with some gentleness, it's a reality. And, um, Dear God, let's hope that the youth of today, you know, they continue this journey and take everything to somewhere completely different because it needs to Human rights is the is the sort of cornerstone. Um, have has your appreciation of human rights changed at all? [00:04:00] Um, so let's step back from myself. Until I started doing my own work and my own reclaiming, I wouldn't have even thought that I was entitled to rights. Certainly not how I experienced things as a child and as an adult. And now, of course, in terms of my out in public work, I was heavily involved behind the scenes in the human rights transgender inquiry here [00:04:30] and participated in it as well. Um, Joy, who was one of New Zealand's human rights commissioners, is a member of my trust, so I think human rights are a very important part of what we're doing. But as has been challenged a number of times at the conference, human rights are a very individual way of looking at the world and perhaps not a completely appropriate [00:05:00] way for people who come from a more inclusive family community, paradigm way of looking at the world. So, yes, it's a wonderful step forward. But I think there's some work for us to do to make human rights statements, um, taking those Carter principles that fit better with all of the planet, because at the moment, [00:05:30] quite clearly, some people feel uncomfortable that they don't speak to them. And, you know, I think that's what this gathering this conference is about. It's not a bad thing. This whole thing is evolution, as I say, all those years ago when we were here in the the City Hall, we would have divided ourselves as a binary men and women. And we would have said that sexual orientation was what, Gay lesbian? That's as far as it went. You know, our [00:06:00] diversity rainbow. All those letters are so much longer now and appropriately they should be. And I think we're going to come back to some kind of umbrella term that includes all of us. I were quite conscious of the fact that some human rights work, um, makes better that the damage done by what what countries have been forced to import. Really, you turn the clock back, [00:06:30] and there's still the same people who might have been there before Christian or before a criminal. It's a very, um, Western, um, Eurocentric paradigm. And and I've wondered somewhat recently, I My genetic ancestry is, uh, Scotland and Ireland and and I wonder, what were my people's beliefs [00:07:00] and systems before the arrival of Christianity and the Roman army? So II I think perhaps it is, as as we examine and have these opportunities to examine that we will. We will end up with something that is much more reflective of the diversity of planet earth and perhaps the privileged way of looking at humanity that is dominated for the last 200 years, at least anyway. The way things have gone in [00:07:30] India, it sounded like the cornerstone is neither gender nor sexuality but sensuality. I wouldn't have put it like that, but I think that that's a very elegant and encapsulation of what we heard this morning with that wonderful presentation news that would lead, perhaps to an umbrella. Yeah, absolutely. And and I think that's that's why I feel so excited. [00:08:00] And, um, I'm I'm very tired this afternoon. I haven't had the chance to sit and reflect. But I, I suspect that my sense is that this will be one of those, um, pivotal turning point gatherings and and and our evolution. Certainly people who have not really had that much to do with each other have sat and listened to stories of oppression. Really, The common [00:08:30] one of the themes is oppression. So just two things I think the the the um, the power of story stories from the heart authenticity, and I think the other thing that's happened and it's happened thanks to the generosity of the Dutch government, and and I believe some of the money has also come from America. That's enabled, um, voices to be here that so easily [00:09:00] could not have been here. And I think that that's part of the challenge. And there will be New Zealand voices that aren't here. That should have been here. Um, people from rural New Zealand, people from the disabled, people who are on benefits. So I think as we move forward, we absolutely need to think about how do we ensure that there are as many voices as possible at the table? That's not a criticism, because what is here is wonderful. I [00:09:30] just think you know that there's been a very high, um, benchmark set with this wonderful gathering. So it's in Copenhagen. Is that right? The next? Yes, there's another couple of big events and I think it's up to all of us to distil what's happened here and and and then build on that. Certainly a young man said to me that it was the diversity here, which was [00:10:00] the biggest message for him, that that which is perhaps reflects something of what you just said, that, um, you know, let's it's cultural diversity. There's a AAA wonderful diversity of age. I've really noticed that from youth to older people, um, of physical abilities. Um, someone said this morning that the one community that's probably not represented here is the deaf community, which, and I'm sure [00:10:30] there are others. So, you know, we haven't achieved perfection. There are groups that have that are not here for all kinds of reasons, but, yes, our our rainbow flag here is certainly a very multifaceted one. And that's wonderful. Looking ahead at two levels, one taking stuff away that you'll say work with Is there something? [00:11:00] And then the other thing is personal. Taking something away in particular that you well, I think one of the personally wonderful things for me is for many years I needed to leave Wellington to get my bucket nourished by people who saw the world in a similar way or not. So because that's not true. I've always had friends here, but people lived experiences were similar to mine. So to have the opportunity [00:11:30] to, um invite and have some of those people here in my city, my home and of course, as a result of the last week. Um, my email address book will be much larger than it was prior to this, you know? And that will be contacts back to Europe. India. Um, I was talking to a a Korean man earlier, and I think that's what comes [00:12:00] out of conferences like this, that the networking, the growing the and so one of the things that's going on, we are moving towards critical mass because individually, we can only do so much so yes, I. I feel like my professional and personal buckets have been actually at the moment the water is slopping over the top over full. What [00:12:30] an extraordinary reality that is.
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