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So I'm an associate professor at the Australian Research Centre in Sex Health and Society. I came to the conference because I had things to say, and there were a whole lot of things that I wanted to find out about. What were the things you wanted to say? Well, I've just completed a third national survey of the sexual health and well being of same sex attracted and gender questioning young people, and they happened six years apart. [00:00:30] And in this one we had over 3000 young people. And, um, and my colleague Anne Mitchell and I were coming to talk about the dissemination research translation research into policy model that we use in Victoria, which we have used at each one of these writing themselves in to lobby government and to try to work for change in the community. What are some of the issues when dealing with surveying young people about their sexuality? Well, [00:01:00] when we did the first survey, I mean, we knew that those young people were out there because they had ticked a box in a previous general population survey to say they weren't opposite sex attracted, and we knew that they were doing it hard in some ways had high rates of STI and drug use, but they'd been in our research. But there is no way they would be in our come to our qualitative focus group come out. Say they were gay. We knew in a way they were being, [00:01:30] um, anonymous for their own safety. And so, as a researcher, the challenge of doing research with young people like that is to do no harm to not, um So how do you How do you do research with young people who are basically hiding for their own safety? And the answer was, Well, look, it was 1998 and we set up a website and did the first survey on the Internet, which was quite amazing for the time we had [00:02:00] to jump through hoops for ethics. And and so what we tried to do was to give them as many options as possible for filling out the research so that they could choose the one that was safest for them. And they did. And these wonderful 749 young people were part of the research, and we just we discovered that, um, over half of them were being abused because of their sexuality, that there were a whole lot of things going on for them and that having this data [00:02:30] one in five had never spoken to anyone about the sexuality. So having this data was just such a responsibility. We couldn't let these young people do so much for the research and not do something with the research. What age group are we talking about? 14 to 21. And how did you actually get them involved in the survey? How did you publicise it? Look, we actually advertised in Dolly magazine. Believe it or not, we were told by young people that this was a place, especially [00:03:00] that we would find the young men and we advertised in magazines. And there weren't many networks at the time, radio was good. Triple J did a programme with us, so we just sort of went wherever we could. The whole thing was unknown. We had no idea how many young people would be part of it. Or young people were just incredible. And they continue to be. I've never been in research where I have the participants say thank you so much for the research. Thanks for [00:03:30] listening. You know, here's my diary that I've been writing on the Net. You know, if I can help, Here's my email. Like, amazing. Such goodwill. And is it is that thanks because somebody is actually taking an interest. Somebody's listening. Or is it looking? Are they looking at the results of the information or is it just that immediate? Actually, somebody cares. I think in the beginning it was someone was listening for the one in five who had never spoken to anyone. You know, they got something off their chest. [00:04:00] But now there is an absolute expectation that the research has its own reputation, and there is an absolute expectation that this research will be used for change. Are there examples of that change? There are. And once again, my colleague Anne Mitchell is the community liaison officer and director of gay and lesbian Health in Victoria. And, well, where do I start? We lobbied and lobbied and lobbied [00:04:30] and lobbied the Victorian Education department slowly but surely, making contacts, finding champions within. We now have the bullying code of conduct safety in schools conduct. Chapter 14 is about homophobic abuse, includes the research in it and what the department expects. We have a supporting sexual diversity in schools. Booklet sent to every principal in every primary and secondary government school in Victoria, which talks about the research. Human rights. What's expected [00:05:00] of teachers. The research is in Suicide Prevention Australia Position statement. It is we have we milk it, we use it. We we work out what the story of the research is, and we take it and use it. Many, many newspaper articles probably been half a dozen full page articles in the age in the last 12 months. Yes, people. The community in a lot of ways, has taken it up as an issue. [00:05:30] Will this be ongoing research? Will there be another survey that comes out in a few years time? Well, look, I've been at it for 17 years, and I'm getting a bit long in the tooth. This time. When we decided to do the third piece of research, we engaged a whole lot of young researchers, two of Annes and my PhD students, a clinical masters in psychology and student, quite a few young [00:06:00] people to try to make sure that we had succession planning happening. I don't think I'll be there for the next one, but I hope it happens. You just have to set it up as best you can. I mean, when we did the first one, we didn't know there'd be a second. It's just something that evolved. Can you see changes in those three surveys? Are there marked changes in attitudes and behaviours? There are amazing trends, I have to say. When I think of the young people in the first survey, [00:06:30] I think of young people who were fearful who were protecting themselves, who were licking their wounds. When I think of the young people in 2010, they're out proud. They're bolshy, you know. In the 1st 11 person out of 749 talked about having a child. The rest had bought into those beliefs that you're going to be all miserable, lonely, you know, your parents won't have grandchildren. It's all your fault. Um, by 2004, they were talking about having kids with the help of their best friend sperm, and [00:07:00] by 2010, they're having relationships. They're having kids and they're going to get married, and they don't care what the government says. They're gonna have it. So that's quite incredible. Young people in 2010 are able to be gay and a Christian now, whereas before they had to choose and it caused them huge problems, They're much more likely to be activists. They're, um, uh, speaking out, much more likely to have spoken to someone. So one in five hadn't in 1998 1 in 40 hadn't in 2010. [00:07:30] So they're out. They feel better about their sexuality than they did in the past. Um, and because they're more likely to be out, they're more likely to get support. Although there is a gap. So yes, lots of differences. But homophobic abuse is up and in school, so school is still a dreadful place. No matter how hard we try, we just have to keep at it. We've got policies. We've got all sorts of things happening. We just We now have a safe [00:08:00] schools coalition that's been set up in Victoria where schools can join, and we just have to keep pushing, but lots of really positive findings, but also the big struggle around homophobia. You know, the fight is on, like in that plenary this morning, talking about Gandhi's phases of change. We're on to the third one fight, which is just before the win. Can you just, uh, run through those those stages? Um [00:08:30] denial, laughter, fight and then win? Yeah, something like that. But certainly the fight. I mean, it's on for young and old at the moment, I think, in schools with these young people, what do you think some ways of fighting that fight are? I think the discourse is incredibly important. We have homophobic discourse which is used to abuse young people. You know, you're evil, you're sinful. God hates you. You're mentally ill. [00:09:00] You're a freak. You're a monster. You're not normal. It's a phase. You're going to be miserable, Lonely. Many of those beliefs were created by our most powerful institutions. Our most revered powerful institutions created this dreadful homophobia and the beliefs. And although most of them recanted, the beliefs are still floating around in the ethos, and they're used to abuse young people. So, you know, the default homophobia is the default, I think, and so [00:09:30] education is everything, and I think the whole community needs to be educated we have to. I guess it's unpacking those beliefs. And of course you know 1998 only one thinks that she can have a child. And by 2010, that belief is just a joke. Now the belief that you can't have Children and so on so they can. We know. We know change can happen. So I think working on the discourses and education is incredibly important. Schools are important. [00:10:00] Parents are important because they hold such power. There's such fear about a parental backlash. But now we have rainbow families and same sex parents, families, and so those parents have power as well. So I think that that's an absolute way to go forward. I think using the research, just taking it up there, thinking about rights and responsibilities of society and what's happening to our young people. And I think also the idea that homophobia doesn't just [00:10:30] affect same sex attracted kids. You know, it impacts on everyone, and every year or second year we go down to this Boys Catholic school in Geelong, ST Joseph's, and we talk to his whole staff of 120 about what's happening with the research, and he says Paul. Tobias is his name. He says. If you get rid of homophobia, your academic records results will soar. That's his belief. So you know, that's another angle. You know, [00:11:00] if everyone's feeling happier and safer, they'll do better. On a personal level. How has this research and the work over the last 17 years affected you? Oh, it's affected me enormously. Um, I'm a lesbian. Um, and I've been in a relationship for 28 years. Um and I guess for me there was always the feeling that I wanted to [00:11:30] make a difference. And, um, I feel really privileged to happened to have been in the space at the time when this needed to be done to be at a place like archers which just, you know, so promotes social justice. Having that contact with these young people who have totally inspired me, I mean, I just I don't like to use a religious word, but I do. I feel blessed that I have had the opportunity [00:12:00] to be involved in this research for these number of years. How lucky am I to be doing something I'm passionate about as a job? So it's had a huge impact. Yeah, and something like this conference. What does What does this kind of conference do for you? It takes me out of my comfort zone a bit. I love the difference. The diversity that's here. I love the way we're all here together, [00:12:30] doing important things, coalescing, lobbying together. But we're different and so to be able to be working together. But have your differences recognised, which I think this conference has done more successfully than any I've been to. So I've learned so much and I've loved it. The Plenaries have just been fabulous. Everyone's been catered for, I think. Can you pick out one or two examples [00:13:00] of of things that you will take away from this? Um, the plenaries in particular have been incredible. The Samoan, the Australian indigenous, the Maori speakers talking about their own cultures and the way things were made invisible the way they were colonised. I think that's really important to always remember. But I think probably most [00:13:30] of all, I'll take the really the good feeling of being here, and that we are getting stronger and closer to the change that we all want so desperately. If someone was listening to this in 30 years time. Is this something that you would say to them? I, I would say I really hope that, um, that as a community, [00:14:00] we've got it together that we that you in 30 years time who's listening to this are living in a community where schools are safe for same sex attracted young people, where homophobia is a thing of the past, where the quality of the community is judged by its embracing of diversity in 30 years, I hope.
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