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Hi and welcome to this session on the Jakarta principles. My name is Carrell. I'm going to chair this session. Uh, we are going to start in in just a minute. Um but II, I want to just to say something really briefly in in my English English is not my first language. It's not my second language. So, uh, please be patient. Uh, first things is that the [00:00:30] Jakarta principles really need more trans and intersex readers and speakers. And as someone that is both trans and intersex and participating in the writing of the Jakarta principles, I really, uh, want to to meet more trans and intersex people engaging in this in this kind of of presentations. The other issue is that even when people, uh, keep referring to the principles in terms of sexual orientation or gender identity, don't forget that there are other, [00:01:00] um, concepts involved in the in the in the writing of the of the principles such as gender expression and body body diversity which are really important for our communities. Usually when people talk about the yo Jakarta principles and about the human rights framework in general, especially when concerning sexual orientation and gender identity, and it happened today seems to conceive a geo [00:01:30] political reality in terms of human rights where global north countries help and teach global South and global East countries about human rights. And I want to to remind you that some gross human rights violations considered by the Jakarta principles such as sterilisation as a legal requirement, uh, are still, you know, enforced in Europe. So that [00:02:00] kind of geopolitical division is not is not truth and human rights violation based on gender identity and and sexual and gender identity and sexual orientation are having place all around the world, including global north countries. And the last thing that II I want to say is that even when people think about transcending to sex issues at some kind of modern, uh, issues, I'm going to be very Marxist in this in this, uh, approach. Some [00:02:30] countries have money in this world because other countries has no money, and there is a story of colonialism that shouldn't be forgotten. There is not such a thing as a rich country as a country that have money because, you know, it's just a good gift. So, uh, we are going to start with UH John Fisher, who is co director of FARC International from New Zealand, now living in Switzerland. [00:03:00] As Mao has said, I'm originally from New Zealand but have been living away for a long time now. 1st 10 years in Canada and then for the last five years in Geneva, Switzerland, where I do a lot of work on LGBT issues at the United Nations, which presents many opportunities but also many challenges because it's not often a welcoming environment. So for me it's a great pleasure to be home to be back in New Zealand. I feel very privileged to share the podium [00:03:30] with Mao Capra, who was one of the experts who developed the Yogyakarta principles with Justice Susan Glab, who has played a pivotal role in a reference within the region about how the principles can be applied. And she'll talk some more about that And I also want to acknowledge the presence today of others who are involved in the process Boris Dietrich, so many activists who have been involved in applying the principles in their own regions and also the presence of many representatives of national human rights institutions [00:04:00] because I human rights commissions, of course, play a leading role in making human rights a reality, bringing them to the people of countries around the world and around our various regions. And the support that national human rights institutions, particularly in the Asia Pacific region, have played in in promoting and applying the principles has been pivotal. And also I want to particularly recognise Ibu his from the Indonesian Human Rights Commission com ha who has played a leading role both from the very [00:04:30] inception of the Yogyakarta process through to the current day and I'm sure beyond So we're going to look today a little bit about the origins of the Dodd Jakarta principles themselves and particularly how they can be applied by activists in countries and regions around the world. Many of you will have received, I think, in your packs a copy of the Purple Booklet, which is the DOD Jakarta principles and also this colourful guy, which is the activist's guide to the Dood Jaar Principles and about [00:05:00] 20 times the size. Do you have those documents? OK, just the one. OK, we'll try. There ought to be hard copies of these, uh somewhere in the conference centre. Uh, we'll try and track those down with, uh, the organisers and place them on some visible table. Um, however, we'll also during the course of the the presentation, uh, introduce you to a website where you can, uh, fill out an order form and get as many copies as you want of either of these documents. Uh, so quite often we find that people will [00:05:30] come across a copy at a conference like this, but then order 20 5300 to use at other meetings, seminars, trainings that they're doing within their own countries and regions. And there's wild stocks, last free delivery. So you're very welcome to, uh, to order as many copies of these documents as you wish for your own purposes. But let's, uh, let's and I also shouldn't assume anything. How many people are familiar with the the principles themselves. OK, so some but not everybody. So we'll talk. Take [00:06:00] a little bit of a look as well at, uh, at what they are, where they came from. What what it's all about. Um, this is just at the outset, a bit of an overview of the the various groups and others who have been involved in the development, particularly of the activists guide some of the funders who have been involved a large coalition of of international human rights organisations. But the exciting thing about both the Jog Jakarta principles and this activist guide to the principles is that each have been a team [00:06:30] and collective effort involving many people from from countries and regions around the world. Um, the other thing that that we'll see when we look at the actual Activists Guide is just how many different groups from around the world contributed to their own tales of activism to make the guide a reality. In a nutshell. The principles themselves are a legal document on the application of international human rights law to issues of sexual orientation and gender identity. Um, the activists guide is what brings that [00:07:00] legal document to life because it's this guide that that provides stories and examples and case studies of how activists use their own initiative and creativity around the world to make those these legal principles a reality within their own within their own countries and regions. And as Mao has pointed out in the in the introduction, um while the, uh, the principles may have been the the product of a very intensive set of deliberations by human rights experts around the world. It really is, uh, the the activists in countries and regions that [00:07:30] have have given them life. So those are some of the case studies which are profiled in the guide, Uh and you'll see already that, uh, that, uh, organisations from the Asia Pacific region are very well represented within, uh within the guide within Asia. I think we have stories from, uh, from China, a couple of examples from India, from Nepal, from the New Zealand Human Rights Commission and and elsewhere. So it's, uh, I think, from regions across the world. There's been a lot of engagement already with the with the principals. [00:08:00] So first question is, although, uh, we were mainly focused on the activists guides today. The first question is, what are the DOD Jaar principles themselves and to provide a little bit of information about their their origins? In 2006, it was clear that at the United Nations we were continually hearing evidence of violations of human rights experienced by people on the grounds of their sexual orientation and gender identity. in all countries and all regions [00:08:30] of the world. And yet we all know that the United Nations can be a a very bureaucratic institution that is often slow to respond to demands of civil society and in particular has not paid significant attention to issues of sexual orientation and gender identity through the years. That is changing now in recent years, partly because of the DOD Jakarta principles, but partly also because of increasing engagement with activists, human rights institutions and others both with [00:09:00] the United Nations as an institution and bringing those demands to their own governments around the world. But as a result of that gap in international recognition, a number of NGO, S and others working in the field of human rights felt that there was a real need to bring together in one place the core international legal principles as they apply to people who face violations because of our sexual orientation and gender identity and the idea crystallised. When a number [00:09:30] of us were involved in some community meetings in Geneva, our organisation, Arc International, was involved in what we call an international dialogue that brings together activists from regions around the world to talk about engaging with international mechanisms. As part of that international dialogue, we arranged a meeting with the then High Commissioner for Human Rights, Louis A. From From Canada. And she suggested to us that one of the things that would really help her as United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights was to really have a [00:10:00] clear articulation of the legal obligations that states have to protect all people equally, including on the grounds of the sexual orientation or gender identity. Some of the government, some of the states that are still hostile to issues of sexual orientation and gender identity continually and with, uh uh with sort of almost boring repetition will say to us, Well, these issues are nowhere recognised in international human rights law. They don't appear in any international treaty, any international document. Uh, and what we wanted to do was to bring together [00:10:30] leading experts in the field who would do an analysis of international human rights law and demonstrate just how wrong that analysis is. The extent to which existing international human rights standards protect everybody. And there is no exception for people based upon their their sexual orientation or gender identity, a planning group was formed and uh, one of the the leading organisations involved in that process. The International Service for Human Rights was at that time headed by an Australian Christi who has done a lot of work in the Asia Pacific region [00:11:00] and particularly in Indonesia, and worked very closely with Thomas, the Indonesian National Human Rights Commission. And through a series of discussions, it was agreed that Indonesia would be a very suitable venue to bring these experts together and have some understanding of the international legal concepts at stake. Uh, the a draught of the principles was developed and then through a very intensive two or three day process, the group of experts broken to working groups haggled over the text, [00:11:30] uh, and produced the the principles that that you have in your in your packs today. Right now, hopefully most people are from from our region know where Joo Jakarta Indonesia is. I find that when we present on the, um uh, the principles in regions around the world, many people are unfamiliar with, uh with Jakarta and also are are less clear on on how to pronounce the name of the principles I was at a recent meeting with an ambassador from Norway who tried to pronounce the title about three times and then eventually gave up and said, [00:12:00] Couldn't you have called them the Bali principles instead? Um, so we have, uh we have some sympathy with that, but, uh But of course, as I've mentioned, uh uh, George Carter was the the, uh, the birthplace of the principals and and they named after the location where the meeting was held. Here is an overview of all the principles that are covered. And don't worry, given the time constraints, we won't work through all of these. But it's I put up the index just to give you a snapshot of the many different principles that were articulated and developed. Uh, by the experts [00:12:30] at that meeting, I must say I. I mean, we were part of the organising committee, so I attended as a part of the Secretariat. Unlike Mao, I wasn't involved in five minutes, OK, in the actual development of the the text itself. But I have to say I was very impressed by the degree of depth and detail that the participating experts brought to their analysis of the international legal situation as it applies to LGBTI people. Um, we had thought that perhaps we might end up with a you know, a one [00:13:00] page statement of principle which articulates some of the key international principles and obligations of states. But as you will see, in fact, there are 29 principles which cover a whole range of human rights issues from the general framing principles of universal enjoyment of human rights. The right of all people, without exception, to enjoy all the human rights, which is what we call universality, of course, the important principle of non discrimination, important principles on the rights to recognition before the law which has been applied particularly [00:13:30] by transgender people, to ensure that the government recognises their own identity within government documentation, rights to life, security of the person privacy which of course touches on issues of decriminalisation and working through all the rights. Obviously, freedom of expression and assembly are important means by which we organise and seek recognition of our rights. There's also equal attention to many of the economic, social and cultural rights, like the right to non discrimination in education, in housing and [00:14:00] employment in healthcare, the rights to found a family and all of these together make up the Georg Jakarta principles and the standards to which we seek to hold governments accountable. I just excerpted some bits and pieces from the principles to give you a flavour of the the structure and the text itself. It begins with a two page preamble, which we found, actually, uh I mean, as as the clock was ticking on the Dodge Carter meeting, we weren't quite sure that we were going to get to [00:14:30] reach agreement on a preamble because the experts focused on the principles themselves first. So we found the preamble has provided important context and is often cited and relied upon by groups working in this area and those seeking to apply the legal principles. It provides a bit of a link between the legal text and the lived experiences that we all have as members of the LDT I and other communities. So it acknowledges the international standards. It recognises the violence, harassment, discrimination [00:15:00] and other forms of human rights violations that many of us experience talks about. At the end of the second paragraph there the importance of our sense of self worth belonging to our communities. The fact that denial of our human rights leads many of us to conceal or suppress our identities and live lives of fear and invisibility and the obligation of states to then address these it also in the last two paragraphs there has not definitions but formulations that express our understanding of what sexual orientation and gender identity mean. And of course, [00:15:30] entering into debates around things like definitions is always a complex and challenging process. Elsewhere in the guide, it's clear that we don't purport to be exhaustive, but we have found that international agencies struggling to understand and apply these terms have have made use of the definitions to further their understanding and consequently protection of rights based upon sexual orientation, gender identity, uh, just a couple of examples of the structure of the principles [00:16:00] themselves. They all start with a fairly short articulation of the the actual international standard and and principle which governments have agreed to adhere to by virtue of belonging to the international community by virtue of acceding to various international covenants and treaties. Following that, there's the the head of state shall an articulation of the actual actions that are expected of States in order to give effect to to that principle. And it's often in the state's shall section [00:16:30] that we see, you know, a concrete set of actions that are expected of governments in order to comply with their, uh, their international standards. Uh, so the I've given you the first two there on, uh, universality and non-discrimination non-discrimination, of course, includes repeal of criminal provisions, uh, and other provisions that are applied to criminalise consensual, same sex activity. Uh, here's an example from the the right to education just to take another example and you'll see that again. The the principle itself is quite a straightforward one that everyone has the right to education. [00:17:00] It's an internationally recognised right, without discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity and taking into account people sex orientation and gender identity. But then, in the list of obligations to give effect to that right, it deals with a whole range of issues, including inclusive school curricula, protection from bullying and harassment, the need for guidance counsellors to be adequately trained and sensitive to issues of sexual orientation and gender identity, and, in short, to ensure a a an educational environment in which people can can [00:17:30] live and celebrate their sexual orientation and gender identities and all of their diversity. Now Marra was telling me that I only have one minute to go, not even off the the principles and into the guide. So we'll skip through the principles. Hopefully, you get the the idea you will see in the principles themselves that, uh, that there's a list of participating experts at the end, many of whom are from this region. Why the cara principles? Well, as you'll see from from this, the the legal sources were scattered through many different documents. And the goal was to collect it all together into 11 single document [00:18:00] that that brings it all into one place. Uh, that brings us to the activists guide the, uh, the other document, which is really the the application of the principles and what's happened since the DOD Jakarta meeting to bring these to life in, uh, in countries around the world. It's quite a largest document. So these are the four sections into which it's, uh, divided. Uh, Section one gives you a sense of where the principles came from, what they're about. Section two looks more closely at some of the specific rights and what they're about [00:18:30] and how you can, uh, apply and better understand some of the legal principles at stake. Section three The principles in action is actually what I would consider the the core of the document because it's this where we give examples and case studies of how the principles have been been applied through the creativity of groups around the world And the Section four, give some, uh, some different examples of kinds of activities that can be applied. So we'll skip through, I think, the overview and context, because I've been talking already a little bit about the [00:19:00] principles themselves where they came from. Here we see some examples within the UN system of how the principles have been referenced in this case by the current UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, who has acknowledged the DOJ principles as binding principles with which all governments must comply. They've also been cited by the UN special rapporteur on education. So within the UN system, those are a couple of examples and from the UN High Commissioner for Refugees as well in developing policies around refugee and asylum laws [00:19:30] Section two, as I mentioned, looks in more depth at some of the key principles, some of the key thematic issues and some of the issues there. So we've given some examples on the what the Dr JAA principles say on the right to health. So which principles you are most interested in, which sections of the guide you are most interested in will probably depend upon the work of your own organisations. In some cases, people seek to apply the principles as a whole as a complete document that says, Here are all the standards we expect of our governments In other cases, you may be with an [00:20:00] organisation that works specifically on on health rights, on issues of bodily integrity, on sex reassignment surgery on access to adequate healthcare without discrimination, or you may work on education or asylum issues. And in those cases, just going straight to the relevant section of the guide may help provide you with the information and tools you need to apply the Jakarta principles in your work. Oops, So Section three, as I mentioned, is the one where we look at how the principles are applied in a number of different sections Mau is now saying, OK, [00:20:30] put the put the pointer down and, uh, and get off the podium. So all right, so we'll skip through. So his, uh, cases from the India court case decriminalising homosexuality, uh, or and you'll see references to the principles in the court's judgement. There are other examples from South Africa. The New Zealand Human Rights Commission applied them in their trans inquiry. Examples from Ghana applying the principles, Uh, never mind. Um, there's some stuff on Wikipedia which is much shorter than me. Uh, and just take note of this, [00:21:00] uh, address where this is the website where we both give examples of, uh, the uses of the principles and update that with new examples as we learn about them, There's also an order form where you can order copies, Uh, and you can download electronic copies of both the principles and various UN languages English, french, Chinese, Russian, et cetera, Uh, and, uh, and also of the activists guide. So from that website, you can really get all of the, uh, the materials that you might need. Here's a copy of the order form. Uh, and just to note that even [00:21:30] since the Jakarta meeting. Uh, there. We continue to hear every day about creative uses of the principles in in countries around the world. And I think that's what Susan will now talk about is since the production of the guide, some of the additional ways in which, uh uh, various bodies, including national human rights institutions, have looked at and applied the the Jakarta principles, uh, in their ongoing work to ensure equality in justice for us all. Thanks. [00:22:00] Thank you. Joan. Uh, now we are going, um, to hear the the presentation of Justice Susan. Uh um, she's a justice of the Court of Appeal in New Zealand and a member of the advisory council of Jurist. Good morning, everybody. I know we're running short of time. I have done a written paper, So if I skate through this really quickly, I gather these [00:22:30] will be available online. Uh, later. So, uh, the first thing is, uh, probably to explain what the advisory council of Jurors is. And to do that, I have to, um, explain. Uh, what? Uh, the Asia Pacific Forum is which is interesting because I don't seem to have that slide. Uh, well, anyway, the Asia Pacific Forum was founded in 1996. And it's, uh, full members, uh, national human rights institutions. And there are some representatives [00:23:00] here from those institutions that comply with the Paris principles. Uh, Paris principles. Uh uh. Probably the most important one of the Paris principles is that they be independent of government. Uh, and the, um, advisory Council of Jurists, um, is a group of jurists from the Asia Pacific region, and, uh, they come under the umbrella of the Asia Pacific Forum. And what happens [00:23:30] is that they have issues referred to them in the human rights field, Uh, for the Asia Pacific region that the, um a PF, as it's called, uh, wants, uh, expert opinion on now it's head. Uh oh. There we go. This there, you go out of order. I'm I'm in between associates. And, um so you can see that, uh, I can't manage on my own. Uh, so there's been a wide range of these references, [00:24:00] um, since the establishment of the advisory council of in 1998. And they include the death penalty in 2000, trafficking in 2002, terrorism in 2004 and the environment in 2007. And, of course, there have been lots of other, um, very interesting, um, issues that have been referred to us. And the latest reference, uh, with 2010, which is why I'm here was the one on sexual orientation and gender identity just [00:24:30] in terms of the process. Uh, we started off, uh, with the yo yo Jakarta principles in, uh, November 2006, and the Asia Pacific Forum held a workshop in May 2009 to discuss the forum's role in promoting and implementing those principles. And after that workshop, it referred the issue. The whole council referred the issue, uh, to the advisory council of Juris at the 2009 annual meeting, [00:25:00] and you'll understand the significance of that. I think, um, in this region that this, uh, body decided that this was a topic or the next topic, uh, that needed addressing in the region. What happens, uh, is, uh, that a background paper is prepared, uh, by the Asia Pacific Forum Secretariat. And this year it was done with the assistance of the alternative law forum and that deals with the the whole region and all of the issues [00:25:30] in the region the human rights issues in the region. Then the council met in Bali, Uh, at the same time as the forum meeting from, uh in August last year, and we had assistance from experts in the Asia Pacific region, including, um, John and, uh, a number of other people who not sure if there are so I can't see there. I'm afraid it's, uh oh, joy. Sorry, Joy. It's terrible. Terrible light, I'm afraid. Uh, so just [00:26:00] moving to the report that we did, uh, the first part of the report looked at the application of international human rights norms, uh, to those of diverse sexual orientation and gender identity. So that was basically just, uh, re looking at a way and summarising, uh, the principles that have already been collected. Uh, then what we did is respond to the terms of reference, and the terms of reference were looking at how compliant the criminal laws [00:26:30] of the region were with the international human rights standards in this area. Anti discrimination law, uh, whether there is a proper recognition of change of gender identity or choice of gender identity looking at other laws and policies that could be discriminatory. Those ones that are are more subtle in terms of the their usage, not in terms of their effect, but certainly, uh, where people can say, Oh, no. Well, my laws comply, except I use them differently. [00:27:00] Uh, and then the final section was the recommendations, Uh, looking at the recommendations. Uh, what we did, uh, was rather than structuring the recommendations according to the terms of reference, what we structured them, um, in accordance with with the core functions of national human rights institutions. And there was a a cunning plan behind this to a degree, um, in that, uh, it made it clear that this was a role. [00:27:30] This area was a role of national human rights institutions. And also, if any of the institutions, um uh, now or in the future thought they had an excuse not to operate in this area, it was to remind them that this was part of their core function and that even if they didn't, uh, feel immediately able, uh, for whatever reason to, uh, say advocate for the immediate decriminalisation, they could start somewhere. Take a staged [00:28:00] approach to that and then, uh, still actually do a lot for the people that they are responsible for and the human rights that they are responsible for in the in the region. So we structured them according to, um, the core functions of research, education, monitoring and advocacy. And as I say, we took a staged approach so people could start at, uh, the the various levels, but obviously with the aim and with the absolute clear message that the [00:28:30] final aim was to ensure the rights of everybody in the community, including those of diverse sexual orientation and gender identity. So looking at the core recommendations, um, the first one on our stage for approach was to build, uh, capacity within the institutions themselves and to conduct research. Obviously, if the institutions themselves don't know the extent of the problem, the extent of the issues that are faced, then they're not going to be able to be in a position to do anything about it. Neither [00:29:00] are they going to be, uh, listened to in the way that they should be. So that's the the first stage. Obviously, some of the institutions had already gone a long way down that track There'd been an inquiry, for instance, in New Zealand into, um, the experiences of those of diverse, um, gender identity. Uh, and I think there'd been an inquiry in Australia as well, So some of them had already gone a a reasonable way down the track. And obviously there's a lot of research out there that they can, um, build on as well. But the idea [00:29:30] is that they look at it in their particular jurisdiction. The second one was to promote, um, communication, Uh, between those of diverse sexual orientation and gender identity and the wider community. Um, next was to educate key groups. Uh, the first one and perhaps the most important were were those people of, uh, diverse sexual orientation and gender identity themselves as to their rights. Um, as well as, uh, the people that they come into contact with perhaps, uh, Judiciary police, [00:30:00] government officials, uh, teachers and people of that, um kind, uh, the next was, uh, the monitoring role. Obviously, in their, uh, in their role, uh, of monitoring the human rights, um, compliancy, if you like, of their of their jurisdictions, they should monitor that. And then, uh, the advocacy role. Finally, in terms of those principles. So, um, in, um, conclusion, um, the report and the background paper identified many discrepancies [00:30:30] between the human rights norms and the law and policies of the region. In our final report, we don't go so much into detail. Uh, just as examples of, uh, particular jurisdictions. But the background paper, which is also on the website, has a lot more information about individual jurisdictions. We also had a broad range of, uh, recommendations. And as I say, the, um, end aim was to ensure, uh, the human rights, the [00:31:00] full human rights of all without discrimination. So thank you. Thank you very much. Susan, Um, I don't know if we have, um, time for questions now, or if you want just five minutes, OK? City all the time. Like new, right? No, not at all. They're, [00:31:30] uh they're deliberately titled The Jakarta Principles. And the long title is on the application of international human rights law to issues of sexual orientation and gender identity. So the goal was to simply take existing international human rights standards and apply them to questions of sexual orientation and gender identity. And that was the starting point for each of the participating experts. What was kind of inspiring about the meeting is that there were, um, a great diversity of backgrounds and experiences amongst the participating experts. Some had a long history of dealing with issues of sexual orientation [00:32:00] and gender identity. Some had in particular, I think, uh, for example, Lawrence Mute from the Kenyan Human Rights Commission had a generalist human rights background but simply came into the meeting with an open mind and applied that human rights, background and experience to the subject matter, uh, to see what would be the application of international existing standards in this area and, uh, and made many, you know, very positive contributions based upon that those human rights standards to the development of the the principles themselves. Uh, and so that is certainly one of one of the key messages in some cases. For example, as activists, [00:32:30] those of us who are activists may look in here and find some frustration that the principles don't go as far as we might like. Uh, and that's that's deliberate. They're not intended to be aspirational, not in not intended to be a a charter for where we would like to go as a community 20 years from now, They are simply intended to be a reflection of existing standards to, uh, to the violations that we experience. I don't know that there's been research done over and above, uh, what is already existing? Uh, but, um, from [00:33:00] memory, there were was some mention of, um, correctional institutions and some issues with correctional institutions. And certainly, I think some of the more detailed recommendations that we put out related to, uh, related to correctional institutions as well. Um, Which, um, I can't on the Russian paper there. I do put the full recommendations there. And perhaps just to add to that, there is a UN [00:33:30] agency called What's it Called UN O DC, the UN Office of Drugs and Drugs and Crime, uh, which deals with various international standards in relation to criminal matters. And they recently produced a handbook on the needs of prisoners, particularly from marginalised groups and amongst various other sets of prisoners, prisoners with disabilities, et cetera. They had a chapter on, uh, prisoners who are LGBT and drew heavily upon the standards in the Jakarta principles to develop guidelines for appropriate [00:34:00] treatment of LGBTI prisoners. How No I. I understood. I expect that, um that one of the reasons for developing that handbook by the UN agency was precisely because, uh currently the the the application and the the the reality for LGBTI prisoners is falls well short of the standards of treatment that that are appropriate. The challenge in putting together the activist Skype. [00:34:30] Although I must say that there are a whole set of different authors responsible for its its compilation. So there wasn't any one decision made, but the challenge that the various groups involved in putting this together faced was that there were just so many examples of activism using the principles that providing a a sampling or cross section was not intended to be exhaustive, but only, um, illustrative. And even since the guide has been finalised, we constantly hear about news stories we would have loved to include. So one of the things I would have said if if Mao hadn't hadn't made [00:35:00] me stop. Um, was that was that since the, uh, the production of the guide, one of my my very favourite initiatives from Indonesia is a production of a comic based upon the principles in Indonesian by uh, by groups there, Uh, and it's It's just I mean, this version is in Indonesian, but there's also a a version in English, and it's just a wonderful moving story produced entirely at the initiative of this group, where on one side of the page they'll cite one of the Jakarta principles and then through the story that unfolds [00:35:30] in the comic, illustrates the application of those principles to to the lives of a a young woman coming to terms with her lesbianism within a school in Indonesia. And then it moves through the rights to education rights to be free from harassment and bullying, and concludes with the rights to found a family as she she meets somebody that she she loves and eventually is accepted within her family and community. So I actually, you know, cried at the last few pages, and, uh, and that that's that doesn't say much, because I I sort of cry at, uh, Disney movies and things. But it was it's really moving experience, and, [00:36:00] uh, and we've seen lots of other good examples that, uh, that would that could well have been equally reflected in the guide itself in relation to the to the joint statement. A number of us will have heard more about that from Boris and other presenters this morning. We have copies here, by the way, for those who who would still like to engage in lobbying with their governments around the joint statement. It's not based specifically on the Jakarta principles, although it certainly reflects a number of the key points made in the principles themselves. The decision in in preparing the joint statement, [00:36:30] which already I think, is the the largest UN declaration on these issues with the number of signatories that it has, uh, was to focus on specific extreme forms of violations like, uh, freedom from from killing from torture from violence and criminal sanctions principles. We hope that all governments could accept. And of course, those are the amongst the principles at the very forefront of the DOD Jakarta principles themselves as well. So we haven't specifically referenced the DOD principles, but they certainly are a reflection of some of those those issues. Um, and [00:37:00] so if anybody didn't get a copy of that or wants information on how to contact the governments, then please do pick us up after after the decision. And did you want to speak to the the question about the C, or or how how it relates or, well, the the principles themselves are really just collecting, as John said, the, uh, the human rights standards that already exist. So it's not, um, as I understand it in the in the same sort of sense of being a UN convention. Specifically, [00:37:30] um, I suppose there's no reason why one couldn't advocate for a specific UN convention in the same way as the the rights of persons with disabilities. But one, uh, one can say that all of those principles already exist throughout what they but what's happened is they've been collected together in the principle so that people can have it in one place to reference. But it's referenced by reference to a number of different conventions that people will have signed up to and also, [00:38:00] uh, reference back to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and, uh, probably in a number of cases and especially these gross violations of human rights just customary international law and, uh uh and just principles that that apply to everybody, whether people are signed up to those documents or not, is it? Yeah, um, just very short thing. Um, even when the the Jakarta [00:38:30] principles are this collection of of human rights standards and and and they are not how was the word that use aspirational? Ok, uh, there is a lot of of normative imagination in the principles, especially in regard to gender identity issues. If we consider principle three, and and this, uh, obligation of states of fully respect and legally recognised each person's self define gender identity and is not saying men or women this [00:39:00] clearly is is aspirational. It's not true, you know, It's not the human rights standard. Uh, it doesn't exist in in in our world. It could exist in the in the future. It's not saying to be recognised, you know, as a man or a woman is a self defined, uh, gender identity. And we can say the same about protection against, um, corrective surgeries for intersex Children who are in the principle 18. So it's a collection of standards, but at the same time [00:39:30] is a collection of hopes. And and that's perhaps a point worth underlining as well is that as the the parameters for the meeting were being set one of the discussions was should it focus on just sex orientation or sexual orientation and gender identity? And because it was supposed to be a reflection of existing international law, while there is emerging in international and regional and national jurisprudence a fair body of work now on sexual orientation there was very little, uh, on gender identity, which is still, you know, emerging in [00:40:00] terms of, uh, consideration at the national, regional and international levels. Uh, so for the gender identity. But there there was a strong principle decision, and I think the right one to to include both while recognising that in relation to those portions that deal with issues relevant to gender identity, there was even more of a need to take general human rights principles and, uh, and apply the background and expertise of the participants to what we would like those principles to say in relation to the needs and experiences faced by transgender people. Um, I think [00:40:30] we need to to end here. Yeah, OK, thank you very much. Thank you, John. Thank you, Susan. Thank you, all of you. Now I'd like to ask Shay Ronald, who's going to introduce our panel of, um, the national human rights institutions to bring her folks up and come and talk to us. Thank you. And just before I start, I'd really like to acknowledge [00:41:00] the role models in our communities who are still plugging away on all these issues. Especially I'd like to acknowledge joy Marilyn, Susan, uh, John and many others who are here today Thank you for all your work. And I would like to give you a It's because of many of you that we're here, so thank you. So now you have the pleasure of meeting some of our national human rights institution delegates [00:41:30] With the support of the Asia Pacific Forum, we've managed to bring together a group of 11 delegates from the national human rights institutions in our region representing seven national human rights institutions. And we know we're running short on time, so we will be brief. Each of the N HR IS are going to talk to you very briefly about some of the human rights issues for the N HR I in this area. The top three priorities [00:42:00] for the NN HR I and what the N HR I is doing in their country. I will let people introduce themselves. But I'll just let you know. Filippo here is from the Pacific Island Forum Secretariat. He's the human rights advisor there. Next to him is Sandra Below From Triple RT. Um, we have Kate TIBE, who's director of human rights unit at the Australian Human Rights Commission. And we have Professor Doctor Carl [00:42:30] Lake tea from the Malaysian Human Rights Commission. We also have his will from the Indonesian Human Rights Commission. We did have miss me from the Indian Human Rights Commission. He's had to go out and meet the Indian Human Rights High Commission. Um, and he'll be back. Um, and we also have from the Cook Islands. Yes, over there. And, uh, we have someone from the Nepal Human Rights Commission who's joining us later today. [00:43:00] If you haven't already met any of the N HR I delegates from your country, please do introduce yourselves. We really want to make sure there's good connections made here. So it looks like I'm at first. Um, and I will be brief. You've already heard a bit about what the New Zealand Human Rights Commission is doing. Just talking to you a little bit about some of the human rights issues. We have around 2.4% sexual orientation [00:43:30] complaints made to the Human Rights Commission each year. Those issues that we tend to hear about relate to things like bullying and harassment people being refused service. For example, we had some around people being denied entry to bars because the and which the complainants thought was due to their sexuality. Um, people being refused accommodation, sometimes with landlords asking the complainant their sexuality [00:44:00] or expressing discomfort when they're told they were they were gay and declining tenancy. We've had complaints about people not being able to adopt in New Zealand, which you've already heard about same sex couples not being able to adopt in New Zealand, which you've heard about today. Um, people not being able to get married people not being able to attend school boards with their same sex partner, um, and people having issues in relation to their employment with threats around their sexuality in relation to gender identity. [00:44:30] We have about 1.6% of complaints each year about gender identity, and a lot of these relate to the use of toilets, um, and, uh, inquiries that comes from both trans people. There are employers and representatives of facilities wanting to know how to accommodate those needs. So I better use this pointer thing. If I can find the pointer thing here, that's just covering [00:45:00] what I've said and you'll see Carl there. Who's our poster boy? We've just undertaken. You might have heard about this. The review of human rights in New Zealand today and in there there's a whole chapter about the rights of sexual and gender minorities. And from that work which involved consulting with the meeting with many people from the GL BT I community in New Zealand. [00:45:30] We have, um, distilled a number of key priorities that the commission thinks are important for us and others, including the government to work on. And I've just highlighted some of those there. The highest priority that we've identified is around legal equality before the law, So completing the legislative steps required for formal legal equality, including rights to found and form a family regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity. [00:46:00] There are other priorities that many of you will be familiar with data collection, so continuing to work with Statistics New Zealand and commencing work with other producers of official statistics to address the need for sexual orientation statistics through the census and Population based surveys. UN reporting addressing human rights in relation to sexual orientation and gender identity and all New Zealand country reports to the UN Human rights treaty bodies and other human rights reports. The rights of trans [00:46:30] people so continuing to improve the human rights of trans people through the implementation of the transgender inquiry recommendations with a particular focus on legal recognition, the rights to education and health, and explicit explicit protection under the Human Rights Act. Children and young people improving the safety of same sex attracted and both sex attracted trans and intersex Children and young people in schools and intersex people. Building understanding about specific human rights issues faced by intersex people [00:47:00] in particular health needs. So what are we doing? You'll see there a number of you be familiar with to be who I am, which is the the trans inquiry that you've already heard about that we've been involved in for a number of years. We have in the Human Rights Commission, a Queer Issues group where members of staff and commissioners meet together to help inform the commission about its work programme in this [00:47:30] area and what it should be doing. We have a number of diverse commissioners and staff, and we have focused on both delivering mainstream work. So integrating into all our human rights workshops, for example, sexual orientation and gender identity as well as focused work, for example, with particular employers with schools, um, in relation to making, you know, we put out now a trends [00:48:00] E newsletter things like that. The trans inquiry is continuing, and there's workshops at this conference focusing on some of the recommendations coming out of that and the implementation of those. And we have an undertaking. The Human Rights Review built again, reestablished in some cases and strengthened relationships with the GL BT I community. And we're looking forward [00:48:30] to working together to progress those recommendations that I've told you about. So I think that's it for me. Here's some resources we have now. Finally, um, on Monday this week got a sexual orientation and gender identity page on the commission website, which, um, we're really pleased about and please go there. If you would like further information, it's got links to things like the yoak Carta principles a [00:49:00] whole lot of resources that are useful in this work. That's me. Thank you. The thank you very much. But just before I, um, begin with my five page slide presentation, I'd just like to also like she acknowledge, Jolene decode for her help and support in bringing the Pacific delegates to the games today and also to acknowledge [00:49:30] one of our long time serving advocates in the Pacific Jolene, and also to acknowledge my colleague and my former boss, really the project manager for the regional rights resource team for also being a part of the games just to outline the presentation. Believe me, it's going to be very short, just basically looking at some of the key issues that Pacific Islanders, in particular the LGBTI and sexual Minorities group face in the Pacific. And I am going to focus on specific non constitutional protection, [00:50:00] the legislation that are discriminatory towards LGBTI and sexual minorities in the Pacific, and also looking at the recommendations from the universal periodic review for countries that have actually reported to the Human Rights Council. How do I do this just before that, Um, in case you need information on any of the present, the slides that I'm going to do or any of the specific legislation, please feel free to send me an email on Filippo M at forum sec dot [00:50:30] org dot FJ. And by way of introduction, um, I'm the human rights person, also at the Forum SEC, an intergovernmental agency serving 16 countries of the Pacific region. I'm not going to include Australia and New Zealand in this presentation, but focusing on other Pacific Island states. Firstly, fundamental rights and freedoms in terms of civil political rights are guaranteed in the Pacific island constitutions, and in some cases, economic, social and cultural rights are guaranteed and are also provided for. Not all countries [00:51:00] in the Pacific actually have provisions for economic, social and cultural rights. The Constitution prohibits discrimination on the grants of sex and gender, but not on the grants of homosexuality, sexual identity or transgender status or sexual orientation. In fact, Fiji had a progressive constitution until it was abrogated in 2006, where it also had a specific provision for sexual orientation. There are no specific guarantees or protection for LGBT in Pacific Island constitution, and this is a worry This has become a worry [00:51:30] because of the constant abuse that LGBT, or sexual minorities in the Pacific face when they report cases of harassment of abuse and even just visiting the police to lodge official complaints. Um, like I said before, sexual orientation was included in Fiji's Constitution, now abrogated. In fact, we're living on a military decrees in terms of legislation that are discriminatory towards, um, sexual minorities in the Pacific. Just some examples of how archaic our [00:52:00] laws are and the need to have um um, legislation change. In fact, some of the countries have gone to the extent where they've amended Marriage Act to include provisions such as that no person shall be permitted to marry another person who is of the same gender as him or herself. And this is common throughout the Pacific region. What is even more worse and far serious are the criminal codes or penal codes and which, for example, in Cook Island, Section 154 and 155 of the Crimes Act of 1969 provides offences of indecency between males [00:52:30] and sodomy and the words they use. They liken it to be ST they are liken it to, um, a buggery or permitting buggery in Kiribati. FSM discrimination The grants of sexual orientation, sexuality or transgender status is not is not unlawful. There have been some progress made, but all in all in a nutshell, a lot of the laws need to change to take into account the rights of sexual minorities in the Pacific. We are probably one of the regions in the world that lacks fundamental [00:53:00] protection, both in legislation and Constitution for the rights of sexual minorities. Kiribati. There are no constitutional legislative prohibitions against discrimination based on a person's gender or sexual orientation. Sex between males is prohibited by the penal code, and the penal code prohibits both Sorry prohibits both buggery and permitting buggery. The penal code prohibits gross act of indecency between males, whether in public or in private. There was some progress made in Fiji a couple of years ago [00:53:30] with a case where we had a Koski case, which was, um, uh decided deliberated on by a New Zealand judge, uh, winter and he actually extended the definition of, um well, he didn't extend the definition, but he, uh, uh placed a lot of emphasis on what is done in private should be considered private as opposed to it being done in public by consenting adults. Um, again Nauru. Homosexual acts are illegal at all ages. The law does not recognise same sex relationships. But in Nauru there's hope. [00:54:00] There's currently moves to actually amend the criminal code to decriminalise homosexuality. Papua New Guinea again is similar to a lot of countries in the Pacific in terms of the region, the sub region and that will be the Melas region where homosexuality is not is deemed to be illegal. The Criminal code in Papua New Guinea, for example, sections 2200 and 10 to 12 retains the offences of sodomy and indecent [00:54:30] dealings between males. Amendments in 2002 altered the language used in these provisions but did not abolish the offences. Homosexual acts illegal Same sex relationships have no legal recognition either in the Republic of Marshall Islands. Under the 2004 revised criminal code, sex crimes, all sex all sex crimes are gender neutral. Homosexual acts between consenting males in private are legal. These accords with the anti discrimination provision of the Constitution, which includes a prohibition on gender based discrimination in Samoa. [00:55:00] There is no specific legislation providing for protection against discrimination on the grants of membership of the group made more vulnerable to HIV AIDS. But there's hope again in Samoa. There's currently a building table in that will be tabled in Parliament, which will take into account the rights of um section minorities, in particular the in Samoa, Um again, as I believe Joey will be sharing later in his presentation. The Polynesian countries are more accepting towards or facilities than they are in Melas countries, [00:55:30] um, again in Solomon Islands and Tonga, basically the same as other Pacific island countries. So far, Nauru and Samoa have tried to make some small progress in terms of amending the legislation to take into account the rights both civil, political, economic, social and cultural rights of sexual minorities. Tuvalu again is the same. Vanuatu has gone a step further. Um, Section 99 of the penal code provides that no person shall commit any [00:56:00] homosexual act with a person of the same sex under 18 years of age. Whether or not that person consents consent. Consensual sex between same sex adults is therefore not criminalised not in the in the in their code, per se. Um, in terms of the work the universal periodic review there has been a lot of, um, recommendations put out by the working group as well in terms of its recommendations on, um decriminalising homosexuality. [00:56:30] For Kiribati, now Ruan and Tonga. The key challenge now is because Tonga is going to be reporting next in 2012 for the next round. What are we going to do with regards to getting them to commit to the recommendations they have accepted in relation to decriminalising homosexuality in their country? And this is in terms of law reform, be it in constitutional reform is so or even in policies or regulations in Thomas. Specifically, not all countries in the Pacific have reported to the Human Rights Council in terms of submitting the universal periodic review. But I can reassure [00:57:00] you that the countries that have actually submitted most of the recommendations have been accepted in terms of decriminalising homosexuality in country. Um, these are the countries that have yet to appear, and they will be appearing in May of this year, and I would encourage you to lobby international um LGBTI organisations to get their countries and to get their representatives to ask questions to these to these governments to commit to decriminalising homosexuality and also just [00:57:30] making sure that privacy is respected for consenting adults. Um, recommendations. I mean, I guess for the Pacific from a human rights perspective, a lot more education and awareness is needed. And also, um, financial and technical support for organisations that, um, Jolene or Roger runs and not just in Tonga and Samoa, but also in Fiji, in Tuvalu, in Kiribati, Marshall Islands, FSM, Palau, et cetera. Um also, if I could get, um, the International Service for Human Rights and [00:58:00] other like minded organisations to please lobby your governments to get the countries that have yet to appear before the Human Rights Council to make a commitment to ensuring the protection and promotion of the rights of LGBT and sexual minorities in the Pacific. Thank you. I'm Sandra Below, from the Pacific Regional Rights Resource Team. I am going to be very, very [00:58:30] fast because my task today is to talk about national and regional human rights protective mechanisms in the Pacific. I can be very fast because we don't have any, so that solves that question right there we do not have any functioning national human rights institutions in the Pacific. The last one was the Fiji Human Rights Commission, which was suspended in 2007 after the 2006 coup. We do have some functioning ombuds offices, but they do not expand into to human rights protection. Um, so [00:59:00] and as Filippo has already demonstrated, we don't have protective legislation in the Pacific either. So we have neither the mechanisms nor the legislation to provide any protection at all to sexual minorities and diverse sexuality. Both the Pacific Islands Forum Secretariat and the Pacific Regional Rights Resource Team are advocating for the development of both national and regional human rights mechanisms in the region. Um, the reason [00:59:30] for that I'm going to skip over those laws. Um, the reason for that is we have three main reasons why we're advocating for both national and regional in terms of national human rights institutions. They face three major challenges. One is having the human and financial resources to run them. The second major constraint is the independence, which is absolutely critical to national human rights institutions in small island states. Populations of 20,000 [01:00:00] interrelationships, family relationships, cultural relationships. Independence is so difficult to attain. The third reason is safety, which is related to independence. It is very difficult for people to stick their neck out in a small Pacific island community and speak out about their rights. They become immediate targets of discrimination, and our colleagues here can speak very clearly about that. [01:00:30] So, and especially when you have a situation like Fiji, where the military and the police act with utter impunity. So we have a very difficult situation in most parts of the Pacific. For that reason, we're really advocating for a regional human rights mechanism some of our major challenges. We're going to hear a lot about this today, so I don't I won't go into detail about that. Changing laws takes many, many years in the Pacific, not just because of attitudes but also just the physical infrastructure of it. Small [01:01:00] civil servants, lack of human resources, financial constraints and so on. Another major issue is funding. We have two major donors in the Pacific AusAID and the New Zealand aid programme. The New Zealand aid programme has cut all funding to gender and human rights related work over the last year, and that leaves a number of us extremely vulnerable because it sends not just a message about funding. It sends a political message as well that human rights and gender are [01:01:30] not important. And Pacific Island governments take the lead from New Zealand and Australia, so that cut in funding has been more than a loss of money for us. It's been a loss of power in some sense, and it has had reverberations across the human rights community in the Pacific. So I want to state that we have a huge to do list in the Pacific. As you can see from Filippos presentation, we don't have protective laws. We don't have protective mechanisms. [01:02:00] So where do we start? We obviously have to focus on nondiscrimination and equality in our legislation. We can do that by using a number of strategies, either through case law as well as working on even violence against women legislation. Some of the side effects of that help to improve our crimes decree our crimes, acts say I've been in Fiji too long. I'm calling calling laws decrees, [01:02:30] um, and also looking at reforming our old very colonial legislation. That's been brought in from the 19 fifties and hasn't been changed. Also lobbying for national and regional human rights mechanisms. So those are our real to do lists. So I said I would keep it short, and I have. Thank you. So, um, [01:03:00] I've been asked to to speak about, um, work that the Australian Human Rights Commission has been involved in around sexual orientation and gender identity, and some quite significant work has been done in Australia over the last five years. Really? Um, and there was there was some important and significant work that needed to be done. One of the greatest challenges in Australia is the fact that we're a federation. So there's eight jurisdiction. I'm sorry. Nine jurisdictions, eight states and territories and in the commonwealth, Um, [01:03:30] the Australian Human Rights Commission that I work for is, um, a commonwealth. Um, it's an independent statutory body, but, um, the Commonwealth body, most of the work that we've done, has been looking at the Commonwealth and Commonwealth laws. Many of our states and territories have been much more progressive in protecting the rights of people of diverse sexual orientation and gender identity. And the Commonwealth had a lot of catching up to do. In 2006, 2007, the commission embarked [01:04:00] on a major piece of work, which was a national inquiry looking at the discrimination experience by same sex couples. Um, we released that report in mid 2007 and by, um in in early 2008, the Commonwealth government announced that they would re amend, um, a significant number over 80 commonwealth laws to remove almost all of the discrimination that was experienced by same sex couples. There's a couple of, [01:04:30] uh, of, um, marked emissions, um, laws that that weren't amended, Um, through that reform process, um, the most significant of those being the, uh, the the Australian Marriage Act, which I'll come to in a minute. Um, so that was a really significant piece of work which led to, and the recommendations of that inquiry were implemented really quickly, which is, you know, um a a really, um, you know, really exciting thing for our commission to have been involved in in 2009, [01:05:00] we did a piece of work which led to a report called Sex Files. It was about, um, Trans people in Australia and the legal recognition of sex, um, in government records and official, um, documents and processes for changing sex on those records, um, the the the recommendations of that report are yet to be implemented, and there's a lot of work to be done in that area. And one of the greatest challenges in that area is the fact that Australia Australia is a federation and the birth births, [01:05:30] deaths and marriage registries. And in fact, many of the laws that affect trans people in Australia are controlled by the states and territories. And so it's very difficult for the Commonwealth to progress reform in in that particular area. Although the Commonwealth government has recently indicated that they will take on the recommendations of that report and see what they can do to implement them currently, the commission's or we're we're just about to produce a report of a consultation we've been conducting over the last six months. Looking at, um, discriminate, [01:06:00] um, anti discrimination protections. So in most of our states and territories, there's some level of protection from discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. It's a source of shame that there's no protection or almost no protection. There's very couple of small pockets in our federal laws. And so the commission's been working on consultation around anti discrimination protections with the aim of encouraging the government to make good its commitment to address this area and introduce [01:06:30] federal anti discrimination protections. So we're hoping that that will happen over the next 12 or 18 months. So the priorities for the commission, I think, in the order in which we expect reform to happen. We're working most closely on the anti discrimination protections at the moment and hope that that will happen immediately. We're very pleased that there's ongoing work looking at the rights of Trans people. But I think those reforms are going to be difficult to achieve and there's a lot more work to be done in that area. [01:07:00] And I think, um, you know, one of the greatest challenges for Australia and one of the areas that you know that we would very much like to see change. But it's gonna be, um um hopefully not too much of a long-term process, but is about relationship recognition and and same sex marriage. There's been a S, Um, there's been a really significant, um, move A kind of momentum gained, I suppose, in the civil society campaign campaign around same sex marriage in Australia over the last 6 to 12 months. And, [01:07:30] um, we seeing discussion of it in our parliament and amongst our politicians, um, you know, at a level that we haven't, you know, that we've never seen before. And so there is momentum for change. There's significant resistance amongst pop pockets of the Australian Parliament and the Australian community to that change. Um, but, you know, that's a longer term goal for the commission and for our country. Thank you. Mhm. Thank you very [01:08:00] much. Good afternoon. I'm calling from the Malaysian Human Rights Commission or known more commonly by its acronym Suha. I'm here to report on what Suaram has done thus far for the rights of LGBT. I'd like to refer back to a statement made by my chairman, uh, in August 2 010 at the Advisory Council of Jurist meeting, held concurrently with the first annual meeting of the A FP. [01:08:30] Uh, where my chairman shared the experience of Suha, uh, pretty short experience. Uh, he related how a memorandum had been received by Suha in UM 2010 on the discrimination by the media towards the LGBT Group and the chairman stated it was important to respect the religious and cultural sensitivities of [01:09:00] Malaysia while promoting the rights of LGBT and notwithstanding the cultural and religious sensitivities. The chairman did indicate that the new commissioners, who were appointed in June 2 010, would study the matters to promote greater understanding in the community of the problems faced by the LGBT groups and stress on the role of the media in this particular regard. And since then, since the statement by the chairman, [01:09:30] Suha has actually been engaged in reaching out to the various groups and I'm leading that particular working group on the rights of LGBT and when the question of what constitutes religious and cultural sensitive, I felt that perhaps we should actually look into the religious and cultural sensitivities first from the religious groups, mainly the Muslim groups, the Buddhist groups, the [01:10:00] Christian, the Hindus and ascertain from them the stand of the religions insofar as the LGBT are concerned and then progress there to look at the things that can do to promote the rights or the human rights of the LGBT group. The understanding of Suha come in this respect notwithstanding, the religious and cultural sensitivities is the at [01:10:30] the very minimum. The human rights of these groups should be respected. Regardless of how we want to advance the growth of the LGBT S, their basic human rights should be recognised. So that is the current position of a Suha as far as LGBT S are concerned now, this is to be contrasted with the position taken by Suaram by the 2009 at one meeting on the NHS on how to advance the Jakarta [01:11:00] principles by the national human rights institutions where the stand of the commission was. As far as LGBT groups are concerned, there is actually no discrimination. And I was reminded this morning by Jay, I think on this particular point the role played by Malaysia in the subsequent statement released at the meeting, and that the Constitution does not discriminate against the LGBT groups. Article [01:11:30] eight of our Federal Constitution, much as what we have heard from the Pacific Islands on how all persons are equal before the law and there's no discrimination amongst other things on grounds of gender. But since then we so has actually received the opinion of the attorney general's chambers. That gender here only refers to male and female, and there is no discrimination on that ground. And [01:12:00] therefore the conclusion is there is no Article eight does not provide the same kind of right of equality to persons of the sexual minorities we have met so far. Three groups, as I've mentioned earlier in September, we met with the Muslim groups and confirmed with them that there are various acts which are against the Islamic law, such [01:12:30] as same sex intercourse, same sex change, cross dressing imitation of the opposite gender. These are all prohibited in Islam, and that is as far as the religious point of view is concerned. But if we look at the legislation and Islam is in Malaysia is a state matter. So each state has its own Islamic law enactment. We have the enactment that actually criminalises most of these activities as well, so it's not [01:13:00] just from the religious point of view. It is also from the legal point of view that these activities are prohibited as far as the Hindus and the Buddhist groups. We have only Christian groups. The basic thing is in Hinduism, there is actually no discrimination against or no prohibition against. The activities of LGBT and the Christian group proceeds on the basis that because of [01:13:30] the love of human beings, therefore, human beings encompasses the LGBT groups and by that analogy, the LGBT groups are actually not. Activities of the LGBT groups are not prohibited. According to the Christian groups. We also met with the LGBT groups and ascertain from them the problems that they face in terms of access to healthcare in terms of employment in [01:14:00] terms of the discrimination against them in institutions of high are learning in terms of discrimination or activities and acts of violence by enforcement officers against them. And of course the other group that also discriminate against them is the media which I have already mentioned. The LGBT group also face the problems of identification in terms of their access to public toilets [01:14:30] in terms of having their gender in cases of sex change reflected in the identity cards which we are all we all Malaysians all have to carry. That's part of our identity and that states our agenda as well, so they face problems when it comes to immigration or employment or obtaining insurance or even housing loans because of the discrepancy in the documentation and their actual physical appearance. [01:15:00] So we have looked into the various issues, so the question now of course, is where will Suha go from here? Having met with the three groups, I think we are still in the process of ascertaining the religious and cultural sensitivities we haven't completed. With that, we foresee that we will probably be looking into the legislation and looking into how Malaysia may [01:15:30] have to comply with human rights principles according to the conventions which it has signed. And how do we sort of align the rights of LGBT within the right the treaty obligations that Malaysia has undertaken? I'm glad to inform for whatever is worth that. Yesterday I was told by the attorney General's chambers that the training institution for the judicial and legal officers will be doing [01:16:00] a course sometime in June for the position, the treatment, the rights of the intersex group. I think there's more sympathy for this intersex because I suppose biologically they're born with sex organs that reflect both gender. There is slightly more sympathy for this group than other groups, And the attorney general's chambers [01:16:30] felt that it was essential to actually spread the awareness of the problems faced by this group and the legal rights of this group. So maybe that is a start. It's a small start, but it is something that Suha looks forward to actually try and promote the rights of the LGBT group. A small start. But we are here to actually learn. How do we promote the rights of LGBT in a country where religious and [01:17:00] cultural sensitivities seem to be more in the fore than anything else? Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much. And can I ask you to thank once again all our speakers? There will be more time this afternoon to carry on our discussion. But if we want lunch, we need to go now. So thank you very much.
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