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I'm Angela King. I'm from Wellington, Um, at the conference as part of my union, The PPT A. I'm a secondary school teacher. Um, and I've been given employment related educational leave to attend. Um, which is a great thing. So this, um, the this conference here is part of the the human rights conference is part of the out games is also, um, part of the outer is the out of work have had their conference. They combined it. Yeah. Can you describe for me the kind of current state [00:00:30] of queer and gender, um, issues in secondary schools in New Zealand at the moment? Um, I think that it's a really hard job for young people to, um Who are, you know, who are at the age where they're coming to grips with their sexuality and so of, of all kinds, And so it's. But it's extra hard for, um, young gay or lesbian people to have the confidence to come out at school. Um, feel like that. They've got the support of of teachers and other students. [00:01:00] Um, gay is a really common put down in schools. Um, it's synonymous with stupid or dumb, or and that's a really hard word to be, um, bandied about, um so I think that that for one, makes it quite hard. I think that, um I'm very lucky. I work in a school which is really gay friendly. And it's not just the gay teachers who will pull up kids for using homophobic language, but we have a A staff where straight straight teachers will will do that as well. But I know that that's [00:01:30] not the same in all secondary schools. Yeah, So where do you think that the word gay as a put down came from? When did that kind of come into existence? I'm not really sure. I mean, young people's language changes really fast. And, um, it's hard as an oldie to to keep up with that, um, I. I don't know where it became synonymous, but kids have the sense that it doesn't mean homosexual anymore, so it doesn't have that connotation. But it's really important for gay and lesbian teachers [00:02:00] and straight teachers to explain that that that word echoes and and it does mean that. And that's what some people claim as their identity. So it's extremely painful when I try and talk to kids about it. I say, Well, it's like saying, Oh, yeah, fucking redhead. You know, it's some people's identity. It's still and that although they might not think that there's anyone gay in their class, um, one in 10 is a statistic. And maybe it's a sister, an aunt, an uncle, a cousin, a neighbour. And and that's still a really painful word [00:02:30] for young people, or for for anybody to hear as a as a put down. So what words do they use to describe homosexuals? Yeah, I mean, there's lots and and I'd say that, um, I think that, um, homophobic words against men are probably more prevalent. I think lesbians are more invisible or less threatening or something like that. So, yeah, there's lots of words and I'm 30 [00:03:00] 38. I can't keep up with kids language. I learn new words all the time. Now you're saying that your school is quite gay friendly? How does that play out? Is that in terms of, uh, teaching or just teachers pulling up kids for for using things like the word gay? Yeah, um, it's not in terms of teaching, and that's one thing that I've been thinking quite a lot about at this conference. I've talked to people older people who, um and we've talked about our histories and the way in which out [00:03:30] young, gay and lesbian people unaware of our histories, teachers at my school, I spoke to a young man and said, You know, that was really painful for some people because did you know that it was illegal to be gay in New Zealand until the mid eighties 19 eighties? And students don't know that. And I was recounting the story to a young staff member in the staff room, and they didn't know either. So I have a sense that lots of our history is is not being told to our young people. And one of the notes I wrote myself, um, yesterday was I'm going to [00:04:00] approach the social studies department and ask them to do a a unit, ask them if they could create a unit of work, and I guess it doesn't if they don't feel comfortable with it. You know, this is the social days work about gay and lesbian people, but about reform or about minority, or about something we're we're still getting our history, told because I think I really feel like that's we're losing that a little bit for our young people. So in your school environment at the moment is gender or queer [00:04:30] studies taught in any area of the curriculum? No. No. So, um, I'm an English teacher, So I guess I have an opportunity to present poets and artists who and I make a point of saying, Oh, you know, this person was gay, but no. Nowhere. Nowhere. Not even in health or Oh, OK, so the health curriculum. Yeah. So there's sexuality education as part of that. Yeah, but I think that's putting it away somewhere and saying this. Yeah, and it needs I want it to be [00:05:00] everywhere, you know? Why shouldn't it permeate through all of our curriculum? And, um, yeah, I think it otherwise, it puts it in a box. This is just to do with sex, and it it isn't just to do with sex. So do you have any art students? Um, yes. We've had, um 22 boys on two separate years who took male partners to the ball. So that was pretty exciting. Um, we, um most of all of the teachers at school are out. [00:05:30] Um, I spent quite a lot of time supporting a young woman last year who was in the process of coming out. Um, but we don't We don't have any kind of, um, rainbow network or out at school group or anything like that. Um, but yeah. Yeah, there are. Yeah. What was the reaction to the the guys taking their their boyfriends to the ball? It was pretty low key. And I think that's really fantastic, I think. Well, I mean, the gay and lesbian teachers are really excited. We were more excited than [00:06:00] everyone else for like, but, um, yeah, there wasn't. There wasn't a negative response at all as far as as far as I could work it out. Yeah. Have you seen a change in student reactions over the time that you've been teaching in terms of how they deal with queer or gender issues? Um, this is my 16th year of teaching. I started teaching in a, um, a smallish secondary school in a small town, and I didn't have apart from the homophobic stuff, I didn't have any sense of any positivity around that [00:06:30] at school. Um, but I think that the at the same time as the language Still being quite negative. There is a a bit more of an acceptance, a bit more of a a whatever kind of attitude. So I do think so, Yeah. Do you have any other examples of things that have happened at your school to do with gender or sexuality? Um, in terms of staff. And, um, every year we there's a, uh, professional development session on, [00:07:00] um, harassment and bullying in school. And we quite often co-opt that into, um, some about homophobia. So our staff are are well used to having at least one afternoon a week. Where, uh, a year. Sorry, we We raise that we raise that issue and we point some things out. Um, it's a It's a really comfortable school for me just to be who I am. We have family dinners with all the gay and lesbian stuff. Go to the Deputy Principals House once a year for dinner. [00:07:30] So, yeah. Is there any Is there any homophobia within the teaching staff itself? Not that I'm aware of at my school? No, but I've experienced it at other schools. Yeah, I taught at an all boys secondary school, Um, for a while, and that was horrendous. It was really awful. Yeah. Could you give me some examples? Um, teachers would use those slurs towards kids, and no one would pull them up on it. [00:08:00] Yeah, it was horrid. It was horrid. So how do you change that? Oh, II I I'm I'm out of than out. And so I think that, um, I as an out lesbian in the staff room, I was. And I'm pretty open about talking about stuff. So I think that, um in terms of trying to trying to change the staff's mind, um, I answered any ridiculous question they wanted to ask me, You know, what do lesbians do and [00:08:30] be that kind of really, you know, unimaginative stuff, but in terms of getting it out there for for the boys, it's a massive cultural structural mindset shift that one woman couldn't take on. Can you talk a wee bit about your current, uh, school and just the whole idea of visibility? Why is that important? II, I guess. What? The way my school, um um, manages [00:09:00] it isn't kind of in that out and proud and shouty kind of way. It's just a quiet kind of low key. You know, we'll deal with this when it comes up. Homophobic language isn't tolerated in our school, but in the sense of we don't have, there's no sense of kind of celebration or, um, yeah, I. I really like the kind of just the ordinariness of it. I think that that's I. I see that as a kind of [00:09:30] a a move, a movement along a spectrum that we we've got to and it's it's kind of nice. Yeah. So this conference, what do you What would you want to take out of it? Um, I've taken out of it. Lots of personal stuff around, stuff that I didn't know around trans people. Um, I've taken out of it, um, that I wanna I wanna go and do some talking to people in departments. Let's go and try and get [00:10:00] more gay and lesbian talk across the curriculum. I want to, um, think about our collective agreement and what that offers, um, in terms of, um, Trans trans people, that that was a really big kind of learning thing for me. It wasn't something I'd come across or, you know, had an experience of and so that was a big piece of personal learning. I feel fucking lucky that I live here, you know, because some people's lives in other parts of the world are really shit. And other schools here and and other [00:10:30] schools are really shit. And I feel really lucky. If someone was listening to this in 30 years time and you had to say something to them, what would that be? I think it I think it is about knowing your history and being grateful and proud of the hard work that those who have come before you've done. And I feel that, I mean, in 2011, I've got lots and lots of people to be really thankful for that. I can be as out and as confident in my school as I can be and [00:11:00] in my world, in my life as I can be. And, um uh, yeah, I know your history. I know the hard slog that was done for for you on your behalf so that you can be as out and proud and who you want to be. What do you think the biggest issues are facing? Um uh, queer and and gender communities in New Zealand. Um, and this is kind of a a personal or, uh yeah, kind of my own experience. I think I've been thinking quite a lot about, um when [00:11:30] I I came out in Palmerston North, which is a small town in the in the bottom of the North Island. And we we had quite a, um a big, uh, a strong kind of group there, Um, and we ran our own, um, nightclub. And we struggled with the fact that, um, that our young people in the community didn't need us as much anymore. They could go to straight clubs and they felt OK there. So I think maybe for for us older ones letting that happen and accepting that and not fighting [00:12:00] it and doing what's what, what the young people want us to do rather than what we needed or what we think they should do. So we need to chill and relax and and move with where our young people are going and do what? Uh, listen to them. Ask them what they want from us, our oldies, and yeah, and do what they need.
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