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Um my name is Andy. As I said, I'm 33 years old right now. I'm originally from Germany. I was born in a very small town called Has I grew up there. And then later on, um, did the military service in Germany the compulsory one. And, um, also was part of a fire brigade in my hometown for a voluntary one. For some time I was an altar boy, um, grew up in a Catholic environment. And, um yeah, later on, I started in a different um, city. [00:00:30] Then I started working in a, which is near Nunberg, and as a regional manager for Aldi Stores later on did the same thing. Same job in the UK in Bournemouth and in Southampton for six months each. And then I decided, Oh, I wanted to see something different and came to New Zealand in 2008 in February. And, um yeah, ever since stayed here. I initially only wanted to stay on a working holiday permit, um, for one year, but, um yeah, As life plays out, I ran into the right man [00:01:00] and fell in love with the country and still here. Four years, 4.5 years down the track. When did you realise you were going? I realised when I was gay when I was about 12, 13 years old. However, I didn't realise that what I felt was called gay. I noticed that I found men more attractive than women, but that what I was feeling was called gay as something I only realised about three or four years later because it was just, um, a topic not being talked about at all. So I didn't know anything about sex, gay life [00:01:30] or any of that. I discovered all myself. Eventually, If you didn't hear or see about gay life, how did you think you were? I mean, was that confusing to you? Or was that Yes, of course. It was confusing. And once I realised that, um, I like men and that being part of the Catholic Church, I knew it was seen as wrong there. So it was, um, of course, very hard for me. And, um, I did hide it for a long time, and eventually when I was about 22 [00:02:00] 23 came to terms with it. And this is then when I also had my first laugh. And, um yeah, eventually started coming out step after step. So how did you come to terms with it? It was a process. Really? Um, my goal was once I'm out of my little hometown. I thought I'm gonna study. I'm going to be in a bigger town, and I can start, um, meeting other gay people and, um, start living my life. However, um, one thing played on the I was, um, studying chemical engineering, which [00:02:30] was quite hard, which took pretty much all of my time. And so I didn't really have time to start a gay life or find gay friends or find new friends. Um, and that had an impact on my studies, so I didn't really, um I wasn't able to put everything in it. I was very unhappy. I was depressed. And so the study started to fail, and I kind of didn't achieve any of the two things I wanted to achieve in this bigger city which was studying and, you know, living a gay life, starting starting to be the person [00:03:00] who I am. And, um So I reached almost a breaking point at which I then said, OK, I either have to end this, or I have to, um, accept who I am. And this is when everything got better. After I finally accepted, I asked a friend, um, a gay friend, somebody I knew, but he didn't know that I was gay and talked to him. And from there, it all got better. How was it coming up? So So your family or your friends? It was, in most cases, [00:03:30] better than I anticipated. Um, my mom took a bit of time because, um, she's very Catholic and a bit set in her ways and beliefs with my father. It was the easier part. I thought it would be the harder one. but he adapts his thoughts and his, um, behaviours and his mindset when he gets new information when he, um, looks into a situation. And so, um, it was [00:04:00] very moving when he found out my mom actually told him after, I kind of had to tell her there was no way out. There was no way out situation. And, um So when he came home from work in the evening, um, he just said to me, um, hey, why didn't you tell me earlier? Um you're always gonna be my son. And I'm always gonna love you. And I was blown away by that because I was really scared. He was a Catholic man. Um, you have? Yeah, but as I said, he he just changes his mind when he comes across new information [00:04:30] and does the right thing. So what was the situation that you couldn't get out of? Ah, what a funny story. Um, I It was about five months after I told this first person that I was gay and I I met my first, um, two friends, um, gay friends. And then I was hanging out, um, with them and eventually at a, um, at a lake, I met my first partner. We've been together for months. Then I was in hospital. I had my tonsils [00:05:00] removed and I was really feeling bad. And I was just the first day at home, still recovering. He called me. He said, I'm a day off. Um, he was a chef and said, Oh, just come to my place. I look after you, and, um So I did this, um, and I was in really bad shape. So when I returned a day later, my mom kind of was waiting for me behind the door and crying, and she said, I know something's wrong with you, and it must be Dr So I cut it or something. And, um, yeah, so I told her I showed her a black and white picture of my boyfriend [00:05:30] and said, Oh, that's my boyfriend. However, in German, the word boyfriend and friend is the same. So she didn't realise at all what I was trying to tell her until I made it quite clear. And, um then she was, on the one hand, a bit relieved. On the other hand, she couldn't really handle it because that was a completely new thing for her. But yeah, um, she, um, went to my father's workplace right away, told him, and then the other situation I just described unfolded in the evening. So it was, um, a moving story. My younger brother listened at the door while I was, um, telling [00:06:00] my mom. So that was, um, done as well. And I told my older brother briefly after how to sort of fit those relationships. Um, with my mom and my older brother initially thought I do need help and it can be fixed. And my younger brother and my father were OK with it right away. Um, it was a bit of a process for my mom and my older brother, but now they are OK with it as well. And, um, they did a lot of research and reading and a lot of conversation, and then they kind of understood that [00:06:30] it is not a choice and that it's nothing bad and nothing wrong with me. I just, um, love a man. What about, uh, coming out to your friends was also better than expected. I think I, um, found really, really good friends, and I didn't really lose any friends. I think I was lucky in that context. But this is because I started selecting the right people as friends. Um, quite early on in my life, Usually, when you're young, you are friends with the people who are either in your [00:07:00] neighbourhood, your school or you hang out with in clubs. Um, but yeah, I. I didn't have too many friends when I was younger for two reasons. First, um, I was already pretty selective then and secondly, um, I think I was just lacking the self confidence of building up friendships because I knew I was different but couldn't handle it. Um, so the little friends I had were mostly from the Catholic church as well. From older boys. I met fellow other older boys. Not that I was playing with them or anything, but, um, we just shared the same basic values. And, [00:07:30] um, yeah, that build strong friendships which are still, um, alive now that I've been here in New Zealand for 4.5 5 years. When I was back a couple of weeks ago, we just caught up, and it was just like, I haven't been away at all. What are the basic values that you value in a friendship? Um, first and foremost, it's reliability. Um, do as you say and say, as you do. Um, I think this is the base on what you can build, and then it's trust as well. Um, I do value trust a lot, um, and [00:08:00] being there for each other, wanting the best for each other. I'd say these three things. So why did you choose New Zealand? A good question. Um, after, um, a very stressful year in England in my job. I decided I need a break. I need something else. Um Wanted to see more of the world instead of going back to Germany. And I wanted it to be an English speaking country because it was the only other language I spoke apart from German. I thought about the United States then but didn't [00:08:30] quite feel right. Nice for holiday destination. But yeah, it wasn't wasn't the right thing for me. And Australia seemed a bit too hot. I don't like the heat too much, So I was pretty much left with a choice between New Zealand and Canada, and both rank very, very high. Um, but New Zealand kind of made it. It seemed more exotic. It has a very, very good reputation in Germany as a holiday destination as a great place. Um, and it looked great in a lot of ranks, so I just don't give it a go. [00:09:00] So you arrived here and and then found your partner. Yeah, that's right. Um, I ran into him right away. You could say I was looking on, um, trade me and on gay Romeo for, um, a place to stay on Gay Romeo. You can put your little bed and breakfast tumble. And he had one of those. Um, so I was in contact with a couple of guys about a room to stay, and one of them was my partner. Um, now my partner. And, um, yeah, he just seemed the nicest [00:09:30] to stay in his apartment right in the city. So I said, Yep. I'll take the room. Um, he picked me up at the airport. I moved in and out. Did you expect to come to New Zealand and find? No, I just wanted to be here. Have a fun, easy year and bugger off again. It's still here. Uh, I think this is how life plays. When you look for it, you never find it. Just be open. Be yourself, be friendly, and you run into somebody. So you've entered a couple of of, uh, gay competitions. [00:10:00] The first one was Mr Gay New Zealand. Why did you do that? Um, again, I did a bit of voluntary work when I was younger while I was an older boy, I planned youth camps. Um, I was in the voluntary fire brigade. Um, and I wanted to contribute to the society again a bit to the community. Um, but it was kind of not possible while I was in too many places was studying with, um Army service with a bit of work here in in the UK. So once I settled down here, [00:10:30] and I've been at that point for three years in New Zealand when I thought about it to do something. And, um, there were never too many candidates from what I knew. Um, So I thought, Oh, in 2010, I could go for the competition in February 2011. But I went back with my partner to, um, show him Europe, um, in when was it January And it was all a bit too close. So I said, No, it's not the right thing. And, um but when the competition for 2012 came around, I said, OK, um, now I've got the time and I I'll give it [00:11:00] a go and let's see how I can contribute. And my goal was from the very beginning that I would like to use the opportunity of interviews, especially mainstream media interviews, to try to make our society a bit more open towards homosexuality to, um, try to tell people. It is good parenting to tell your Children that there is something else out there apart from straight love. Um, that it doesn't matter who you love. What counts is that you love. And, um, having a position as Mr [00:11:30] Gay in New Zealand, which gives you, um, opportunity for interviews is just a good platform for it. What drives you in that respect? I mean people into those competitions for a whole variety of reasons. Why did you want to push those those messages? Um, because of my own experience, because it was so hard for myself to accept that I'm gay. And, um, I think it would have been easier if, um, my environment would have been a bit more open about it. Not necessary. Not even necessarily accepting, but just open about [00:12:00] it. A bit of communication about it. And I think this is, um, what you can do with this position. The Mr New Zealand competition. What did that involve? Um, it was, um, the traditional stuff. You know, a couple of questions on the stage presentation to the crowd. Um, see how loud the crowd cheers. A bit of a sports competition. Um, and then, um, club wear formal wear and swim wear on the stage. Um, and it was at the big day out and at Family bar. Have you ever done anything like that before? No, I haven't. [00:12:30] I was completely new to it. Wow. How did that feel? Um, it was quite exciting. And, um, yeah, I was surprised to win because I didn't really have much stage experience before. Nervous? Um, yeah, definitely, Definitely. Of course. How how do you How do you cope with the nerves? Um, you just, um, try to be yourself. And, um, that always works for me. I don't really have, um, specific strategies to calm myself down. I just try to, um, do my best. So [00:13:00] you won a Yes, I did. And congratulations. And what did that mean for you? Oh, it meant for me. Um, that I could start, um, doing whatever I wanted to do. However, because the Mr Gay World competition was so close. Um, it got straight in a couple of interviews, but then it got straight into Oh, you have to register there, and you have to prepare for that. Um, so I had pretty much two months to get everything sorted to go to South Africa, to Johannesburg for that competition. And, [00:13:30] um, apart from a couple of interviews, um, that was really all I did outside work in these two months. Did that alter your self confidence or the way you looked at yourself in any way? No, I think I didn't, I think, um because it took me 10 years to realise who I am and be comfortable with it. It didn't really change much anymore because I gained self confidence in the process of coming out or accepting myself. How did your family react when you said you were Mr Gay New Zealand? Um, they were [00:14:00] kind of OK with it. Far away place. Um, a bit proud, maybe of an achievement. But it wasn't a big too big deal travelling to Johannesburg from Mr Gay World. Was that something you had to fund yourself, or was that paid for? Uh, no, that was paid for by the Mr Gay World Organisation. Tell me about that. How did how did that all happen? Um, yeah. Um, the national 25 countries, um, was national winners of Mr Gay. Um, competitions can go to, [00:14:30] um the Mr Gay World Competition. Last year it was in Manila. This year it was in Johannesburg. Um, usually the national director of a Mr Gay competition is, um, funding the trip to the Mr Gay World competition. But there is not much structure in New Zealand. There is not really a company or person owning the competition. Um, it was paid for by the Mr Gay World Competition. So, um, I flew over there beginning of April. And, um, there was this intense competition over five days. [00:15:00] What happens over five days? Um, there are a handful of churches. I think it was seven of them. They, um, constantly keep an eye on you. They monitor your every move. Um, you do sports challenges. You do a written exam on GL BT rights. Um, you have a panel interview, which is pretty much like a job interview. They sit down with you, they wanna discover what kind of person you are. They want to find out what your vision is in life, why you join the competition. And, um Then you also got the classical [00:15:30] stuff at the end of the week. Um, was a, um, big show in a theatre where you have to do a country where a swim we a formal way on the stage. So it was a very intense competition, Um, with a very, very tight programme, but exciting. What was the hardest part for you? Um, the hardest part for me possibly was, um, the outreach challenge. We went, um, to Nkosi's haven, which is an orphanage for, um, young Children living with HIV, [00:16:00] um, orphans and, um, seeing all these kids. Um, and I kind of compared it to my own life and my own upbringing. Um, where I thought I was sometimes alone or or where I was, um, in a situation where I was missing a person I could relate to with my personal feelings. I thought what these kids must be going through is, um, really terrible. But then again, um, this, um, charity, Nico's haven is giving [00:16:30] them a bit of perspective and giving them a bit of life. And that was at the same same time, While it was a very eye opening experience. Also a positive thing to see that What was it like mixing with with gay competitors from around the world? It was amazing. um it was a absolutely stunning group. We were. We met as some strangers, but we really left at friends any time. If one of those guys came to New Zealand, I would any time offer them my house to stay at, [00:17:00] um it was a very, very good at. We treated each other with respect and and friendships formed. Um, we heard that the previous year it was a bit of elbowing and a bit of tough competition. Um, but while we were competitive, we were also very, very friendly with each other. Um, so it was a good group of people. Why do you think these kind of competitions are important? Because they highlight, um, gay life. And they portray a bit more than what you usually [00:17:30] see. Um, gay parades are really good, but, um, a Mr Gay World competition, which, um, emphasises on looking for how it's called official and ambassador for gay and human rights. Um, highlights that there is a serious background and that we still need to improve the image of gay men. And I think, um, the Mr Gay World Competition does a fantastic job at that showing of, um really good role models from all countries. Each of these candidates [00:18:00] was a person you can look up to. So what was it like on the night when when you won? Um, it was very exciting. And it was, um, very, very hard to to get into CS and to understand. Um, I was blown away, and it felt a bit like a dream. It didn't seem real. Um, And then, um, right away got dragged from one interview to the next. So, um, and totally overwhelmed. So it was hard to say something very [00:18:30] intelligently. Um, but I kind of I think I made my way through somehow. Did you ever imagine in your wildest dreams that you would be standing accepting, You know, Mr Gay World? You know, when you were as a teenager? Never, ever. Um, because I was a completely different person when I was young. I was I didn't have any self confidence. I was shy. I felt off alone, and I think mainly because I was homosexual and couldn't come to terms with it, [00:19:00] um, I couldn't have imagined at the age of 14 15 that I would ever live in abroad in a different country. or that I would ever accept my homosexuality or that I would ever have a good life. But, um, once I was accepting who I am and come came to terms with it, um, it all it turned my life around. I became more self confident. I enjoyed life, and, um, it it is it is a very, very good experience. I think a gay person has to think about [00:19:30] themselves a lot more than a straight person who is just the norm kind of thing. And, um, yeah, I also had the chance to make a It gets better video. And, um, it's reminded me a lot of my journey because there are so many videos on this, um, platform that, um, tell you that it gets better. And it's not just an empty an empty saying it really does get better. What are some of the opportunities that have come [00:20:00] from being my gay world? Um, there are many fantastic, um, opportunities first and foremost, of course. Um, the interviews where Ken, as mentioned before, try to educate society a bit, um, spark discussions about homosexuality and about acceptance. Um, and other fantastic opportunities are, of course, the travelling. Um, I've got a budget to travel to all five continents around the world. Um, which, [00:20:30] um, the Mr Gable Organisation is, um, planning suggesting tools for me, and then, uh, I hopefully can fit them all in. And therefore, I was earlier on this year in Anwer and Amsterdam and then Cologne, Nunberg and, um, Yeah, I came back here, and the next travel is going to be Africa. And it's all again about promoting gay and human rights in these places. Also, you there, you will know there's more work to do in Africa than there is in Europe within New Zealand [00:21:00] itself. Has there been kind of any, uh, negative reaction or negative response? Um, I think you always have a bit of opposition. Um, with homosexuality. It is, um it is something people some people still find unacceptable. Disgust, disgusting, for whatever reasons. So there's always gonna be opposition, um, on newspaper articles online, where people can comment. Um, there was both, Of course, Like in any discussion about gay marriage, homosexuality, um, [00:21:30] gay adoption, whatever. Um, there's always pros and cons, but I guess, um, like Obama put it this morning so nicely. Um There's many people saying horrible things about him, but he will always defend their right to do so. And I think this is quite right. I guess when people are being negative, how do you now, um, make sure that you remain confident. How What are your ways of of staying in a positive space? [00:22:00] Um, depends on on no matter which perspective. Actually, it is. Um, if people are being negative, it hardly affects me. Um, because I've been on my journey. Um, if somebody wants to in inside me or wants to make me feel bad about me being gay, I think it's frankly, 20 years too late. Um, that doesn't work anymore. I know who I am. Um, it's I don't take it personally anymore. That's the one, side of the question. The other side is when [00:22:30] I come across somebody, um, insulting me or talking badly about, um, gay life, I try to have a fruitful discussion about it. A constructive discussion, for example, um, in Queenstown, Um, for gay. I stayed at a hotel and, um, sitting in the spa one evening, there was, um, two guys talking about all these gas in town and or they might hit on you. And, uh, what to best do if a gay gay guy hits on you and one guy said [00:23:00] to the other, Oh, you just have to brush them off very rudely. And, uh, it will be all right. And so I was sitting there in a in a spa as well, and thought, Oh, well, I feel the need to say something. So I said, Hey, guys, actually, I don't think you have to, um, brush somebody off rudely just to know things um would do. And they looked at me a bit strangely, and, um, then I conversation carried on. And then, um eventually. I also said, Hey, why don't you just take it as a compliment? They wouldn't be hitting on you if you [00:23:30] were some ugly somebody. And, um, yeah, the discussion evolved a bit. And what I noticed in this discussion was they've never thought about their point of view. Um, I guess they've always been told or made jokes about it in school that gays are strange or different or whatever, And, um, but talking about it and and giving them a different point of view, I think I could see in their faces how they started thinking about it. And this is how I go about it. Now, if, um, [00:24:00] if I hear something like that, and often enough, um, it's a fruitful discussion. Sometimes, You know, when you just deal with drunken people, there's no point in a discussion. You just walk away. And what about when you're dealing with, Say, um, a teenager who is, uh, you know, anxious about who they might be. How do you approach that? I get it actually a lot, Um, through emails through Facebook, Um, I get a lot of people writing to me with, um a whole lot of a variety of problems. [00:24:30] Um, if a teenager approaches me, um, I try to take the kind of usual, um, counselling approach to first, um, ask more questions to discover what's happening to determine if there's immediate danger. And, um, if there's immediate danger, of course, I'll just take the appropriate steps. Try to get in touch, um, get in touch with authorities if I can. Or, of course, with the permission of the person who's getting in touch with me. Um, otherwise, it's really just by asking [00:25:00] the right. Questions, Um, trying to get the person to give the right answers themselves. Because, um, it's a journey where you have to make your decisions yourself. Um, you can't tell people what to do. Um, they have to discover it themselves, but you can guide them with the right questions. So that is what I'm trying to do. Has that happened where, Where you've actually had to Maybe forwarded on to a councillor or to another authority? Um, it hasn't happened that I had a case. Um, that was that bad. Um, but what I do, if [00:25:30] it seems out of my, um, expertise, I, um, refer them on if they ever in New Zealand, for example, to outline where the specialist sits or if it is, um, an international case. Um, I just hop on the internet, and you can always find a gay organisation, which provides telephone advice or whatever. And, um, just tell them. Just go there. You can can remain anonymously, and they will help you. They will be there for you. Did you expect that when you kind of entered Mr Gay World, that that [00:26:00] that's maybe what you'd be doing? Um, I usually I always kind of think about the things I'm planning on doing. I'm a very organised person, and, um, I anticipated that this is gonna be part of it, but I didn't think it would be that much that big. How has this changed you? Oh, how has it changed me? It's a good question. Um, I think I should ask my friends if it [00:26:30] changed me or I don't feel different, But maybe it has changed me without me noticing nothing better than a bit of external feedback sometimes.
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