This page features computer generated text of the source audio. It may contain errors or omissions, so always listen back to the original media to confirm content. You can search the text using Ctrl-F, and you can also play the audio by clicking on a desired timestamp.
Kia ora. Can everybody hear me okay? Fantastic. Thumbs up from the back. So tēnā koutou katoa. My name is Jala and I am going to be your facilitator for today. We are very excited to be having this panel. Um, I'm going to do a bit of a welcome, a karakia, talk a little bit about how we're going to run today. Um, and then I will pass over to our lovely panelists to introduce themselves. [00:00:30] We're going to take A really nice, big, long time to do Whakawhanaungatanga and talk about these people so they can share who they are with you. And also so that we can ground ourselves after a very hectic morning of running this ship. Um, before we move into talking about the content of today. So I will open. [00:01:00] So just a couple of, I guess, housekeeping for how we would like to hold this. space. Um, if our panelists or if anyone from the audience would like to discuss anything that has sensitive material, please trigger warning before you raise it as an option for people to choose to not, um, engage with that material. Um, that's really [00:01:30] important to keep us safe and to keep you safe as well. Keep in mind that for some of our panelists, English is their second language. And so that articulation and pace is really important, um, as well as for our interpreters. Um, if you are asking questions, keep in mind that nobody up here is entitled to answer any of them. The same way that we, when we ask questions of each other, everyone is always free to not answer anything for any reason that they don't have to share. Um, we are encouraging everyone today to wear [00:02:00] masks. So if you have a mask, please wear it. Um, and for everyone to please, on the panel, speak into the mic. I just realized that I wasn't doing that. Just please speak into the mic so that everyone and our interpreters... can hear clearly. If we are not doing that, or if we are speaking too fast, feel free to let us know. Okay, goodbye. Cool, all right. Um, so I am going to start off by letting all of our panelists [00:02:30] introduce themselves and then I will introduce myself last. And we have not established an order. Would anyone like to volunteer to start? Okay, all right. I don't know what to say. Namaste. I'm talking in English. Uh, AKA to the Cai Hills in Northeast India. I'm from a tribe up there. Um, and we follow the matrilineal tribe, uh, matrilineal culture. So everything comes from the feminine side of, [00:03:00] um, of my life. Um, so I was saying the, uh, we had a one out this morning, so I'm incredibly nice to my sister because she inherits everything in the house, so I have to be nice to her. Um, um, a little bit about me. I'm a recent migrant here. Uh, Well, I just became a citizen, so of being in Aotearoa, specifically in Poneke, I sit as the co chair of [00:03:30] Weldon Pride. The importance, thank you, the importance of me becoming co chair three years ago was the lack of people who looked like me in those positions of power. So I stepped up, much to my dismay. But, um... Um, what I have found through being co chair is the, um, the inherent racism that comes with pride. Um, and hence, um, our, you know, our co papa with pride at the moment is to create spaces [00:04:00] for black, brown, indigenous people of color to see themselves more. And it's going to take a long time. We do understand that completely, but, um, and challenging, challenging conversations are going to come with that. Um, but so far it's been. great to see Ranga Tahi come up to us, especially to Talia and I, and see, it's so great to see two people of color leading this, and that's a gift that we are giving, you know, to, to Ranga Tahi, which is a gift that I wanted as a child as well. Um, what [00:04:30] else did I say? . So Vivian Ling dot Vivian passing at ling dot mal pls by name, Ling Pl is my surname. Roughly translates to the custodians of the village Maplang. Um, yeah, so I also come from a, my last name is also related to 12 different tribes. So we're incredibly single in our tribe. Because we can't get married to any of them. Um, but um. What else was there? Uh, I also sit in the, I work for , which is the [00:05:00] Public Service Commission in the diversity inclusion team. And within that team as well, I'm one of the only brand faces in those, in that team, considering it is that diversity and inclusion, um, you know, uh, leadership for the entire public service and the amount of it's 80% parking had in there. Um, so it's hugely triggering to be in these positions because you want to be in there to create change, but it comes with. The microaggressions and the racism as well. But, um, for us to create change, unfortunately, we have to be in [00:05:30] these positions. So that Rangatahi may not fight so hard. You know, we're picking up the tono from our, uh, from our leaders from the past, like Dutri Nabai, like Carmen Rupe, like Mahashifi Johnson, and all these beautiful whakawahine. Um, so, whatever we do, whatever I do, is to, um, ensure that, um, Ensure that, um, yeah, Rangzahi, you know, work as hard. Um, but kia ora koutou katoa. Thank you so much for having me. [00:06:00] Kia ora, thanks for standing, but I'm gonna sit for this one. Um, kia ora koutou, my name's Gina Dalmaclay, um, my pronouns are they, them. Um, I live in Porirua, so just a bit of a 20 minute train ride I take every day to come into town. Um, and yeah, I'm a... I'm a young queer person, um, I've been a student for a little while, but taking a little gap year this year, um, as I'm going to be running for Parliament in the upcoming election. Um, thanks James, thanks James. Um, so yeah, kind of politics has always been something that, uh, has interested me, kind [00:06:30] of as like a, Oh, wow, there's this thing called global warming, and like, I guess it sounds kind of bad. Oh, it's like climate change, and people have been talking about this for 30 years, maybe we should do something about it. Um, and so kind of through those, uh, spaces came into, yeah, interest into politics and also representation. Um, at first thinking about, like, oh, it would be really great to have, like, a person of color in that room, or a brown person in that room. Um, and then realizing actually it's not just about having us at the table, but ensuring that the system around us, um, changes and actually honors. [00:07:00] Like, A, you can turn into a Waitangi here in Aotearoa, but also the intersections of all of our identities as well. Um, so I come from Vietnamese and Pākehā whakapapa. Um, my mum came to Aotearoa in the late 90s, um, kind of for that better life, um, to be able to send money back home to our family in Vietnam. Um, and then my dad, he has got Scottish and Irish and English whakapapa and came to Aotearoa, or his family came to Aotearoa, um, particularly based in Waitaha, in Canterbury, and then eventually here in [00:07:30] Wellington. Um, and I kind of grew up as an only child out in Porirua, um, and then, uh, kind of came into my understanding of, like, queerness and robo identity, um, later in high school until I decided to join different groups, um, different urupu who were interested in some of the similar things I did, um, was interested in, and then realised that actually, in order to make these spaces even more inclusive, diverse, and actually, you know, make the changes that we need to see here in Aotearoa, um, it's time for some of us to step up and lead [00:08:00] them as well. Hola, my name, can you hear me? Yes? Okay. My name is Anna. I'm from Mexico. Maybe, I hope. Some of you follow me on Instagram as lifeoflilith. I am an illustrator and a lot of my work is very centered around political subjects or like basically, I'm sad, look at me. So, um, and I'm going to talk about that more later. Um, uh, as I said, I'm Mexican. I came here [00:08:30] three years ago. Um, as background of who I am, uh, I grew up in Mexico, but my mom, my mom is Nicaraguan. My dad is Mexican. My mom, I think this is relevant to how I grew up, my mom came to Mexico fleeing from the civil war in Nicaragua. And, um, kind of doing the same by having come here. Um, what else? I am 27 years old. I am disabled, not all, well, via neurodivergence, and also physically disabled. [00:09:00] So, that's why I have a little cane here. Hmm, what else, what else? I do not mind any pronouns. As long as you're not a dick, I don't, I don't really care. Um, yeah, I think that's all for now. I'm from Chinwe. I'm from Nigeria. I'm from Iwote. I'm Chinwe, um, I am from Nigeria, [00:09:30] Nigeria, that's my Fakapapa. My tribe is the Igbo tribe, um, but I was born in the UK and I moved... To, uh, almost ten years ago, but more recently to Poneke, like, three, almost three years ago. Um, what do I want to say? I've, I've only, I guess it's only since I moved here that I've, even, that I've started exploring, or even acknowledging my queerness. Uh, and that was actually during, funny enough, during [00:10:00] BLM, um, when there were a whole bunch of protests going around, going around across the country, and obviously overseas, but most of the protests for BLM were about, like, some black lives, and even though black trans people. Particularly black trans women are disproportionately killed, um, there was no conversation, no talk, no acknowledgement of that, nor what they have, um, suffered to give us our rights to be here. And so I ran the only Black Trans Lives Matter march in, um, El [00:10:30] Pibara, which upsets me, but I'm also proud, but I was also hoping Tamaki would follow suit, but they didn't. They censored it on the, um, the cis men and, um, Some, some women. Anywho, um, I work at government, unfortunately, um, but I'm working on anti racism policy, but in a very, very, very, very, very white, very, very privileged agency, so I'm working on anti racist policy in a racist institution. And then I also, like [00:11:00] everybody else here, suffer racism in the queer community, so I am, I am currently actually, I think, in a heightened sense of trauma, which I found out from my therapist recently. So, this, um, panel is, like, fortuitous, or, oh, I didn't say it's fortuitous, so I can actually be in one. Um, discussing this, um, yeah, but I'm just, yes, that's, that's me. I'm really grateful to be here. And, um, I really hope that you'll get something out of this vocado. Um, and [00:11:30] that you can go away and have more conversations among your peers. Uh, and as yourselves as allies, and how you support us, and also your whānau and your friends, who are also colour. Kia ora. koutou, uh, ko Vinod tōku ingoa. My name is Vinod, I go by Vinny. Um, first and foremost, I'm really just keen to say that I'm really humbled to be on such an amazing panel with such amazing individuals. Um, In, in [00:12:00] terms of myself, I, um, whakapapa to the north of India and, um, south pa, south Pakistan in this region called Punjab. Um, so my whanau, um, migrated to Arter, um, in 1917. Um, so 105 years ago, my. Great great grandfather made that move so he could escape the shackles of the Hindu caste system that relegated him to a sub life of [00:12:30] subclass of human existence human rights violations characterized the totality of his life, so There's, there's that. Um, in terms of me personally, um, so I use he him pronouns. Um, I grew up in a small town ten minutes outside of Hamilton called Ngaruawahia. Um, so, great place, um, and yeah, I, I studied there. Um, my family's still there, but I [00:13:00] moved down to Pōneke I think two years ago. Um, to start, um, start a new role down here. Um, I identify as a, as a gay cisgender male. I'm endosex, um, and many identities, um, hold privilege there. Um, and I guess... The, um, sort of the positionality that I hold within the community, I guess, is, um, I run an organisation called Adikar [00:13:30] Aotearoa. Um, so some of you guys may have heard of us, but, um, we're an organisation for and by LGBT people of colour. Um, mostly from South Asia, because that's, that's where I'm, I'm from. Um, so... Yeah, we started two years ago and really, um, have tried to visibilize an invisible community, um, through, um, yeah, through, through events, through, um, academia, through research, through law and [00:14:00] policy. Um, that's sort of where I come from, um, and, and speak to using the law and policy as service tools, service tools for, um, marginalised communities. So, yeah, that's me. Lovely to meet you all. Kia ora. How's everyone doing volume wise? Can, are we good? Can everyone hear? Okay, just keep that in line with the microphone. Thank you. So, kia ora. My name's Jala. Uh, I use she, they pronouns. [00:14:30] I... I have a really interesting, fun fucker popper of coming from all sorts of places. So, um, my dad is a Vietnamese refugee, came here as a child in the late 70s. Um, and... My mother, who is in the room, um, her father is Afro Caribbean from Trinidad, and her mother is Pākehā, so holding lots of different spaces, um, and different identities, and, and different colours, and all that kind of thing. Um, and [00:15:00] I grew up in Aotearoa, mostly in very, very Pākehā areas, which has been really delightful. Um, and... Yeah, and so, as somebody who holds so many different types of identities, and, you know, I am also queer and I have lots of other kinds of identities, this kind of discussion is so interesting to me as somebody who's always trying to figure out how much of certain things I am in certain spaces and how much I can represent and how much I have to keep to myself. [00:15:30] Um, and how to... Navigate that duty that we often have to be with that representation for people who are like us while also wanting to keep ourselves safe. So, that's really fascinating to me. I'm also a sexual violence prevention specialist. Um, that is what I do for Mahi. And, of course, that is something that, you know, this kind of conversation comes up a lot in those spaces as well. Something that I am very passionate about, and I am very, very blessed to be here with these lovely, [00:16:00] lovely people to have this conversation today. I'm keeping an eye on time, um, so, because to keep this space safe, I'm gonna just get our people to close the doors now and not let anyone else in. Um, if anyone needs seats, there's a couple more down the front here and kind of in the middle, so please take those if you would like. Alright, so, um, I am also, uh, one of the key organizers of this big event here, um, helping out with [00:16:30] Pride. And one of our, you know, the kind of whakatoki, the theme of Pride this year is Kamua Kamuri, which means to... I always get these words mixed up, which means to walk into the future with our eyes looking back at the past. So, about reflecting on our history and where we've come from and what we are learning to take into, um, our future and the different generations that are coming after us. And so I want to use that [00:17:00] theme to guide today's discussion and to talk about our history and our queerness and our ethnic identities. And to start that off, because we are all manuhiri in this country and we are here by the grace of Te Tiriti o Waitangi, I want to kick off by talking a little bit about how you feel your identity is reflected in your relationship to Waitangi, and your relationship to this land that is not yours, and what that, how that makes you [00:17:30] feel, and your kind of sense of responsibilities and duties that you might carry a result of that. I'm just going to open this up to start a korero amongst all of us, so. Um, I guess my relationship with fertility is when I had this conversation with my mother before I moved here and she did tell me, she said, remember on whose land you're on. You have land back at home. You have a village back at home. So ensure that as Manuhiri, you treat the people of that land with respect. [00:18:00] And that's the conversation that's always, um, I've taken for my mother, but you know, when I moved here at 18. And I had a conversation similarly again, um, on, in December when I was in India, and my auntie said the same thing, she said just ensure that you are respectful of the land that you're on, and connect with indigenous people because they've been through so much trauma, very much like many of us who have been affected by colonization, with the erasure of our cultures, erasure of our languages, and erasure of our identities. [00:18:30] So for me, who is Manuhiri, an indigenous to another part of, you know, to another part of the world, it is to ensure, it is to ensure that we bring balance to what has been taken away from the indigenous people. And that way for me is to engage in challenging conversation as Manuhiri with Tangata Whenua, with Mana Whenua, so that we are not causing harm all the time, because it can, so we're not inflicting harm. And that can be done [00:19:00] unconsciously. As well, because you don't know better, right? But, when you got called in by tangata fenuaan, by mana fenuaan, we have to ensure that we are not defensive when we come to our approach of understanding as to how we can become better tangata terti um, in a land that has provided us, or providing us with so much. Um, and, but has been taken so much from the indigenous people of this land. So, through pride. Um, Talia and I, who is, I [00:19:30] believe, Talia is one of the first indigenous people who is Tangata Whenua, who is the co chair of PRIDE, you know, it's 1986 was the liberation of PRIDE, our liberation of our queer people over to the homosexual law reform, but it took 36 to, you know, 35 to 36 years for someone who's indigenous to come into Wellington PRIDE Festival. You know, that's way too long of a time, and we have to ensure that whatever we do. [00:20:00] Um, yeah, we have to ensure whatever we do in the future with pride, it is to, to, to, um, centralize it is. Um, not harmful to the indigenous people and then to the black people and then to the brown and people of color. Um, and what we do is engage in conversations that have been left at the margins of the margins by people who are not willing to be, who are not willing to have those conversations [00:20:30] at all. But I'm straying away so I'll pass it on to whoever wants to have a chat about this. Um, yeah, so, since I grew up here in Aotearoa, um, we decided to go through primary school and you learn a little bit about kind of history and culture and understanding about, um, the Treaty of Waitangi and, and those kinds of things. And, um, as one of the only, like, two Asian people at our school, you know, we weren't... included in any of those conversations talked about our history at [00:21:00] all. Um, and so it was only when I kind of got into my teen years and learned a little bit more, um, and started to have conversations with other, um, non Māori people of colour about our relationship to this land and what, um, our relationship to Te is, um, that I started to actually understand and, like, kind of find my place more, um, in that positionality. Um, I joined a rōpū called Asians for Tino Rangatiratanga, um, and they're a really awesome rōpū, um, particularly with a strong group up in Tāmaki, but as well here in Pōneke and Ōtepoti, [00:21:30] um, who, yeah, our whole kind of mahi and at the centre of what we do is educating, um, and also advocating about Te Tiriti o Waitangi to particularly Asian, um, people of colour, because there is anti Māori sentiment within, um, Asian communities, um, and it is, It's the land that we're living on and we should be. Like, we need to acknowledge that and be proud, um, to be here, but also acknowledging, um, in Australian times we actually have a lot more in common than people think. Like, um, back home in Vietnam, we've been colonised and [00:22:00] it wasn't quite the same as how it happened here in Aotearoa, but those are shared traumas that we have as well. Um, and so bringing people together, um, to talk about that, to kōrero more, um, I think is really important, um, and, like, I'm stoked that it's happening a lot in terms of my generation, but there are people older than us. People, um, who don't have that access to that information that we have to, um, pass it on to as well. Um, so I think that's pretty key. Hola. Um, as I said, I've been here for three years, which I, I [00:22:30] do not consider to be a long time. So this is something that I'm definitely still trying to figure out for myself. Sorry. Something I'm still trying to figure out for myself. Um, within that, I feel... A very great responsibility to not only say like, Yay, a lot of people deserve rights because obviously, but actually try to understand. Um, vision the Maori have, try to understand the relationship to the land, [00:23:00] because the permission that I have, like, that's in quotations, the permission that I have to be in this country was not given by the people who were supposed to give me that permission, um, is to the colonial state of New Zealand. So also always trying to have that in mind, and within that, there, like you mentioned, there's a lot of. Similarities, obviously, um, colonization in Mexico was different. But there's still these shared stories, and I find that a lot of [00:23:30] the time talking to, um, Maori people, I have a lot in common. And it's almost like I have a friend that I didn't know I had. So... Um, while I do, I do not want to gloss over the fact that obviously Maori are still oppressed here, are still like, treated like this is not their land, like, like it wasn't actually stolen. But anyway, um, uh, just also trying to [00:24:00] connect in that joy that I think we have and that sense of wanting to be a community. Um, whereas the system around us tells us to. Be individuals, not worry about anyone else. There's always discomfort to know that. Even though it's from completely different backgrounds, we have this that unite us as wanting to care for each other. A lot of our values are very similar. So, yeah, it's still definitely a work in progress for me. Um, [00:24:30] and yeah, I have to say about that. My rela Hello? Can you, can you hear me? Okay, cool. Um, my relationship with, um, to Tinnity is that more, quite, quite recently, like maybe the last couple of months, I've done quite a bit of reading on colonial racism here, and it was a massive eye opener, um, and. Um, yeah, [00:25:00] I read some stuff that I wasn't aware of, and, um, it really showed me just how, A, how lucky I am to be here, um, but also just how lucky I am that I'm here. That Tank 10 anywhere are allowing me to be here because honestly, if I'd been through what 10 been through, I don't know if I'd be, I don't know if I'd be okay to be honest. I dunno if I would be, and the fact that it's ongoing is also a. It's also really [00:25:30] disheartening, so I think for me, particularly when it comes to talking to other migrants, other members of my community, particularly the older members of my community, I feel a real strong responsibility to challenge them on their views, because like you were saying, there is also anti Maoist in African communities. And I think with most migrant communities of colour, black and brown, um, Particularly our older generations, they think, well, there's a, there's a treaty here, we didn't have that, therefore they're lucky. Absolutely no. So I might swear, I'm sorry if I [00:26:00] do, but that's how I express my emotion. But absolutely no, that's not the case. Um, and I have to really, like, go back into the history. I have to go back to like the 1400s and talk about things like the doctrine of discovery. I've got to talk about the wars of sovereignty, I've got to talk about like, um, Pai Kakariki, and Bastion Point. Um, and those are the learnings, and those are the conversations I'm constantly having with, um, within my community. Because I just, they don't know just how bad it is, was, and has been. And I feel a real [00:26:30] strong responsibility to challenge those. Those thoughts and even with my other colleagues or other friends who are also migrants from the UK because God knows There are people from the UK who think even more racist views Um, I feel I feel very strong about challenging that and I do and sometimes Sometimes it's outside the bar on like a Saturday night. I don't care where it is. I will do it and I will continue to do it because It's totality. It's not about the treaty. The treaty was bullshit. [00:27:00] It's totality and that is That is the only totality I know. Everything else, I don't know what this treaty is, but it's, I know that's not what the people that allow me to be here signed up for, so, and I will continue to push that. The truth. Truth to power. I guess my, um, relationship with Te Tiriti started, um, where, where I was born and grew up, Ngārua Waihia, so some of you may know Ngārua Waihia is the seat of the [00:27:30] Kingitanga, the Māori King movement, um, that was developed in response to the colonial, um, Um, forced dispossession of land, land confiscation at Ōpatsu, um, and growing up we would have elders come, um, Tainui elders come into the school, um, and talk about these stories and share oral histories, um, and I think, for me, like what, um, what others have said on the panel [00:28:00] is, um, Really just recognizing there was a lot of affinity there. A lot of affinity. Um, India was colonized through, um, you know, economically through the East Indian Company. Um, and, um, really, really horrifically violent ways, particularly in where, um, where I was from, where I am from, sorry, in Punjab. Um, I was just there in December and I visited a place called the Jallianwala Bagh. Um, [00:28:30] and this was a place where, um, Sikh individuals were celebrating Vaisakhi, which is the Punjabi New Year, um, essentially, um, and, um, sorry, I'm getting a bit distracted, but, they're going hard over there, I think, um, but essentially what the British did is, um, you know, these people were celebrating Vaisakhi, and General Dyer, um, of, um, The British Indian Army, um, ordered these individuals to be [00:29:00] shot. Um, so round about a thousand, the estimates are a thousand to five thousand people, mostly women and children, um, were killed by colonial bullets. Um, so growing up, hearing those stories from, from my whānau, but then also hearing stories from Tainui elders, I always had a sense of affinity, um, and I guess the only, the obligation that I feel really strongly, as Gina and Chinwe have alluded to, is really having those [00:29:30] challenging conversations. Um, I was just over in Sydney for World Pride, um, and I caught up with one of my, um, One of my family friends, um, well, we call him uncle, all Indians do, um, and, um, he was driving me around and he was like, oh, you know, um, um, the aboriginals are just like the Maori, um, lazy, all of that stuff. Um, and. I was like, Uncle Hemet, like, come on, yeah, yeah, like, come on. Um, and then we proceeded to [00:30:00] have a conversation that was really uncomfortable because in Indian culture you're taught to respect your elders and you're taught to not answer back. Um, but in some instances you need to answer back. Um, so, yeah, I guess that's the obligation that I feel there beyond all of the other ones. I think one other thing I do want to raise Um, is, um, I think there needs to be broader discussion, particularly in light of what the Waitangi [00:30:30] Tribunal said last year. So, December, I think November, December, the Waitangi Tribunal released Y1040, um, Te Papi, um, Te Raki, and this was a North, Northland, um, iwi, um, Um, Inquiry, and the Waitangi Tribunal headed by Judge Cox had concluded, um, conclusively that Māori did not cede sovereignty. Now what does this mean, obviously it's not a new concept, but this is the first time that the Waitangi [00:31:00] Tribunal, or one of the first times that the Waitangi Tribunal has promulgated this, so how do we, um, as ethnic communities, um, play our part in, um, Cultivating those discussions in response to that. Kia ora, and I just want to acknowledge this, like, juxtaposition that's happening here. Uh, and how it's a bit uncomfortable, but we're just gonna raise our voices a little and keep going. Um, I think that you've raised a really awesome point that I want to... [00:31:30] Touch on something you said about how often when we are trying to have these conversations with our own community about different kinds of racism, we're kind of, not only are these like emotionally challenging, but they're really culturally challenging because there's this like Respect your elders, or all else, kind of mentality, and how difficult that can be, and how, like, people who, like white people who are like, oh yeah, you know, just call out the racist uncle, don't realize the massive implications for that. [00:32:00] So I think that's a really big thing. Did anyone want to talk to that? Um, yeah, I've seen like definitely the, um, so in Vietnam kind of alongside like the respect to elders, it also goes into like, so if my mom's mother was younger than your, like my auntie's mo it's like quite complex, but basically my mom's like the youngest in the kind of family, which means I'm one of the youngest cousins, even if not by age. That kind of adds another layer to that. Um, Respect and like [00:32:30] what you're supposed to say to all these people about um, certain topics Um, but definitely vibe with the like trying to have these tough conversations typically on racism sometimes the sexism, sexism as well Um, and yeah, they're challenging because they're like, well, why are you saying like this is how I've always believed Why are you coming in here and saying something different about it? But I find also, um, in these When having conversations with, um, elders or other people, um, about like, uh, queer, trans, rights, all these kinds of things, that, another sense [00:33:00] as well, and so, because I have, in their eyes, am part of these rainbow communities. When I start talking about other kind of marginalised communities, I might not have as much weight to my voice. And so that's why I find, why I feel it's really important for other people who are part of our ethnic minority communities who aren't rainbow to have the conversations about rainbowness with the people who are against us, basically. Yeah. Um, okay. And [00:33:30] also into this of respecting your elders, et cetera, et cetera. While I'm personally, I'm like, yes, we need to challenge that. But obviously as a lot of BIPOC people know, it's not as easy as we've talked about. But I also try to have these conversations from a place of compassion because I don't know if me telling these things to the, to my elder. It's going to, in their head, maybe like, Oh, all this time, I could have done this, or be this, [00:34:00] and you're doing it, and that's making me sad, so I reacted in an angry way. That is something that I find is very common in our communities, because, um, I don't know how many Latin American people you know, but here there are a lot of queer Latin American people, but because of our own communities. We're not out, or a lot of us are not out. Or if we're out, we're mostly with people who are, yeah, Latin American, but they're straight. So you kind of have to [00:34:30] deem yourself. So, there's a lot of that, um, also back and forth. Kind of being in the middle of, I want to approach this with compassion, because I don't know what this person has gone through. But I also do want to be firm that, Um, this is something that I might find unacceptable. And I think that's the, that has been the hardest thing for me of understanding this complex, um, generational trauma. But also [00:35:00] being able to hold people accountable. Um, yeah. Um, I think when I go back home and visit my family, because they're all based there, Um, I love what you said, go with compassion, because I actually call out the systems that we have inherited through colonization, which is the education system is flawed, they have eradicated, um, cultures and identities within India in itself, you know, the Hijra community, which is a trans, um, community, so ingrained in [00:35:30] our culture and they've been identified now as a third gender through constitution but it's still within the margins of the margins. So I blame a lot of this stuff to colonization because the conversations we're having now is With my mom in particular, she's so stuck in this pool of, um, Christianity, another thing that we've inherited, um, through colonization, and she can't get out of it. So when you're stuck in a system [00:36:00] where the entire conversation is based on the inherited systems, Um, it is really hard for her to foresee anything beyond that. So, it's taken over 10 years. I came out 23, and I went back in December. We tried to have a conversation again, and she still can't get her head out of it. It's so sad to me to see our elders... Who, uh, involved in these systems, who do you think are right for us, and they can't seem to get out of it [00:36:30] at all. So I think we need to call out government, we need to call out constitution, to really realize that the identities that we all have, have always been part of our cultures. Um, and just... To be honest, burn the system down. That's my thing. But, um, yeah. The compassion thing, absolutely. Because I move with compassion to the conversations I have with my elders. Um, because I just feel so much sadness. Um, in Altsero, we do [00:37:00] have access to information. We do have access to a lot of these privileges. But for people who live in the mountains where my tribe are from, they don't have any of that. And all they have is a flawed system in place. Yeah, I think the education piece is really important, right? Like, a lot of us hold this huge educational privilege to be able to be in rooms like this with people like this and speak the way that we do. And I think often it's a privilege that a lot of us take for granted the ability to be articulate and how much [00:37:30] access that grants us, whereas people who share similar identities and similar experiences have the same thing to say but don't have the same words to say it and are not taken It was the same amount of value. And I find that really frustrating, because it's like, just because I speak the way that I do doesn't mean that I should be the one to sit here. And yet we always end up in these same spaces. So I think that's, for me, something that I have to think very carefully about, about not taking up too much space, just because I can speak the way that I can. I [00:38:00] think the same for a lot of us who hold higher education. But that's getting off topic. I want to, um, raise our view a little bit from, kind of, our kūrinasan and pride in Aotearoa, which obviously is so front and centre right now, to looking at the history of the movement, kind of, globally. And a lot of us come from identities that have never really been seen in pride, and have never been celebrated, or have, I think, for many people who I've spoken to, they kind of move beyond, experiences of [00:38:30] marginalization to complete invisibilization. Just never even noticed. So I wanted to invite anybody to reflect on that kind of wider global movement and whether you have or have not been seeing yourself and people like you at that level. Hello. It's me again. Um, okay. About that topic is very interesting. So, uh, I'm also the communication director in Wellington pride. So, oh, [00:39:00] sorry. I'm also the communication director of Wellington pride. So like that banner or anything that you see in graphics, I made it. If you, thank you. Um, if you notice, Like past Pride, um, posters, etc. How many brown people were there? It wasn't until this year that absolutely everyone in the posters is brown. And, this is, this is very strange when you take into account that such [00:39:30] popular things that are seen as queer culture Come from brown people specifically. Like, things like the ballroom scene. The ballroom scene is a very specific example because it was started by black and Latin American trans women. And yet we were never invited to these spaces. A lot of people love to cosplay as us. Try to talk like us. Try to dress like us. But do not invite us. So, I [00:40:00] feel that that's something so interesting when you see it in a place like this. Like, I'll tell you what, a lot of people see it as very progressive. And yet, people are like, oh, it's just that. I don't know anyone Latin American. I don't know anyone black. It's like, have you tried to get to know us? Have you tried to invite us into your spaces? Spaces that are ours by right. Because it was our people who started it. And yet, it's someone else who's reaping these, um, [00:40:30] benefits of it. I totally thought about everything Ana just said. Um, the anti blackness, anti Latin American ness, and erasure of blackness and Latin American ness in the queer scene in Conaca is so rampant. There are ballroom scenes here that almost are gatekept away from black and Latin American queer people. Um, I've been, I've [00:41:00] seen them. You get looks, you get looks, and I'm not saying that personally, but I know so many black queer people who have been, um, forcefully kept out of these spaces, but yet, everything is culturally appropriated. The way we talk, dance, what we dress, even our hair. I've seen people literally curl their hair to get my texture. So that they can go and perform Beyoncé, and go and perform Lizzo, and go and perform every single other black artist [00:41:30] they know, but yet don't want to engage with black people. There's a very common saying, which actually comes from um, African American culture. They, they want, they want to be us, but they don't want to be with us. And that is so true here. And honestly, I've never felt so invisible as when I do when I'm in queer spaces. Outside of um, The few BIPOC that are here, even going downstairs, if I'm not among my friends, I feel overwhelmed and invisible and also scared. Because where are we? [00:42:00] Where are our stalls? Where are our people? Why are we not here? We don't feel safe to be here. I go to Ivy Bar. And where the hell are we? Where are all the black drag performers? Where are the Latin American drag performers? We don't feel safe to be there. You know, like, we don't see BIPOC there, but you'll see like, um, white people there. Great. But they're twerking. And they're like, singing liberally to R& B and hip hop and using the n words like it's nothing. Everybody's using the n words, apart from black [00:42:30] people, which is ironic. I mean, I don't. But anyway. Um, it's, it creates trauma. So every time I step into a queer space, I feel trauma, I'm triggered. Every time I'm engaging with, uh, queer white people, I'm genuinely traumatised and triggered. Because there's no acknowledgement of anything that our people... have gone through or given up for us all to be here. And it really bothers me, it's almost [00:43:00] like, it's almost like we're living in a microcosm and the effects of international history only apply so far as our fashion and our music and our culture. But the context, international context here, it's like as soon as you get off at the airport, ah, it doesn't matter, it doesn't mean anything. And that's what I feel every time I'm out here in Puneke, in any queer space. And honestly, it is PTSD. It is a thing. Race based trauma is, is a medical term and most BIPOC have it. And I'm [00:43:30] sorry, I should have put Trigger Warning on this. Sorry. Um, it's a thing. It's a thing. Um, and I would just love it if we could acknowledge our histories. And I have to say, um, I thank Namihi to you, Viv, and Talia, because the Hikoi is the first time, the first time I've ever felt even slightly seen. It was the flag raising. It was, can black and Latin American queer and trans people come up and raise the, the flag? First time. I've never seen our flag up there. [00:44:00] I've never felt represented. And we, and there's never any conversation about who came before us, but there, there was. But I want to see that all the time. Everywhere. You don't have to be, I don't, just because I'm, I'm not trans, but I am black. I'm not African American, but I am black. And I want my people, my diaspora, my, the storytellers from beyond, my activists from history, I want them to be recognized. I don't want their voices to be lost and I won't allow them to be lost. And if I've got to be that loud black person that's saying [00:44:30] black trans lives matter, I'm going to say it until the day I die. But I want everybody else to say it too. Latin American trans lives matter too. We mana tū, our people mana tū. Um, I, um, have never attended a pride event in Aotearoa, um, and I probably won't. Um, um, I think picking up on the safety [00:45:00] point is definitely the safety element. Um, in terms of the safety, what I'm referring to is emotional safety, um, and mental safety. Um, Because there's just not that there. And I've got two really key issues with the way that Pride engages in the, sorry, there we go, in Aotearoa. And I think the first one is, there's this perception [00:45:30] that queerness is whiteness, and whiteness is queerness. And how that plays out in Pride spaces is that, um, the practices, the events, the processes of pride are based on Euro centric conceptions of what it means to be queer. Um, but to me, being queer isn't, um, you know, and I say this in a respectful, in a respectful fashion, [00:46:00] but to me being queer Um, you know, walking down the street, um, um, you know, um, What am I trying to say? Yeah, it isn't walking down the street with, um, a six pack, abs, and, like, with my whiteness showing. That, that's not the manifestation of queerness to me. My queerness is a bit more personal to me. Um, it's a bit more, uh, indigenous to me. Um, so there's, [00:46:30] there's that point, but the second one that I've, I really felt when I was over at World Pride is, um, Pride has really seemed to have lost its focus on protest and human rights. Um, and you know, we've all, we, I think we all mostly agree to that point. Um, I think the most courageous Pride event ever, To be held in the world's history is a event by S [00:47:00] Sexual Minorities Uganda, um, I think it was 2016, 2017, where they marched through, um, the streets of the capital city. Now in Uganda, they passed a law in 2014 that was appealed, that was repealed by the constitutional court. But it was there around, um, and sorry, a trigger warning, um, around the death penalty for, uh, queer people. Now, [00:47:30] where is the same sentiment of courage, bravery and respect for human rights in our pride scene here? Because that was all about human rights. We don't, we don't have that here. Um, to, to conclude on this point, um, I... Last year I was in India and I was lucky enough to attend Dilli Pride. Um, so Dilli is the capital city of India. Um, and it was... It was the greatest feeling of my life. Um, that was the only Pride event I've ever gone to and I [00:48:00] probably won't, yeah, as I said, I probably won't have the same experience ever again. Um, just walking with Indian LGBT individuals was the most special thing. Because growing up, even though I didn't attend Pride events, seeing Pride events on TV and popular culture, it was, um, A place of whiteness and a place of exclusion, so. Yeah, I mean this is, I just want to acknowledge that this [00:48:30] is like real heavy stuff. And I think it's important and I think that holding this is really important which is why we're having these kinds of discussions because these are deep feelings and these are not just something that we bring out to play with and we, you know, hold a panel to chat about this absolute crap, like this is real stuff that we're experiencing every day and I just want to appreciate that. For those people in the room who aren't white or aren't Pākehā, we don't leave this at the door. Like, this is our lives. And [00:49:00] so that's why I just think that these things are so important to recognise that. GIFs is just the everyday reality, right? Um, and I wanted to keep talking about the, um, the social movements and the move away from human rights, because I think this is really important. I think it happens in Pride and other social movements. It's all about, like, the kind of commercialization and capitalization of, of white bodies and all that kind of thing. And there is... None of that uncomfortable courage that we [00:49:30] used to see in a lot of movements and that we see represented in other cultures and other countries. And I think this is something that, if anyone would like to chat further about, I think is really important because I think, you know, in a move to try and bring people in, they were like, oh, we've got to make it comfortable for everyone. And everyone's got to be able to just come along and have a good time, and wear some glitter, and call it a day. And at some point, that became that thing, where it was like, oh, well, there's only... joy, and there's no recognition of all the [00:50:00] sacrifice and all the fights that we have had and still have to have. And especially in Aotearoa, we start to go, oh well, we all have rights now, we're all fine. Whereas that's completely and utterly untrue. But people don't remember that. So I just wanted to invite any of you to reflect on that, if you would like. Okay, um, so yeah, about that is, it's very interesting because, um, well, trigger warning, just political instability and violence [00:50:30] because of that. Um, coming from a place like Latin America, specifically Mexico, and I say Mexico because Latin America has many countries. So it's different, a little bit different everywhere. Um, it's a very, very heavily politicized space. And moving here and seeing that it's not, it's very, very discouraging. Um, I'm gonna talk again about the ballroom scene because that's something that I am in love with and [00:51:00] it's where I live violence. Um, so for example, in Ballroom, for those who don't know, you might have seen it, um, what's the show that is all about Ballroom? There's so many. Post. Exactly, Post. I haven't watched it, sorry. But, um, It's trendy, and it's, oh yeah, so cool, yes, girl, do whatever, blah, blah, blah. People love to say that. But when it comes to the actual ballroom scene, um, instead of being an act of rebellion, instead of [00:51:30] being, for example, in the category that I like to walk, which is Sex Siren, instead of being a celebration of bodies that have historically been put in the margins, it's almost like we're here regressing to wanting to appeal to the masses, wanting to appeal to whiteness and more about the proximity to whiteness or the cosplaying of blackness, which is a very specific thing that I've seen here. And it's incredibly upsetting because how is it that a movement that's starting [00:52:00] politically is now reduced to this? It's now reduced to trying to imitate people but not have them there. Um, I think for, for some of us, it's about like, We don't need to be in those spaces. I don't need to be in a Takatāpui space, but what I can do is give my money so that space exists and is there. Um, for those of us who have, um, the privilege of time, or the privilege of money, um, or energy, or a platform, it's about making sure that, um, those... who are at the margins actually, you [00:52:30] know, we're spreading the message and we're giving our money. We're giving our pūtia so that they can have those spaces, particularly when it's not, you know, it's not free, it's not cheap just to make a safe space for certain groups of our communities. I think, um, a lot of people come up to me and they I like, you're so lucky to be in Aotearoa, and you know what, yes I am very lucky, but you know what would be even more lucky is for me to not be displaced from my own land because of queer identity, you know, um, I'd [00:53:00] rather be there. I'd rather have my whenua were there, but because we've been forced to, not even forced, but just being led to come to Aotearoa because we have to be closeted back at home, otherwise we get killed. You know, I was on a date in December with the first Khasi person there. And we went on a really dark road, really, and we were just sitting in the car, yawning. And a police car came right outside, saying, What are you two doing? And it's all these things. And I felt so [00:53:30] much sadness for him because I could escape that, you know? I could come to Aotearoa and just leave that conversation there. And for him, he didn't know what to do. He doesn't talk to his family. He's um, closeted. All of his life and he can't, he doesn't know how to get out of it, you know, and I feel like as queer people here maybe there is a certain way that we can amplify and Use our connections globally to liberate queer people across [00:54:00] the world And I think we tend to forget that just because we have all the rights here. There are many people who don't have rights and conversations here are Diverting away from protesting and human rights, they're going too much into celebration, which is great, but also we still need to have the conversations, you know, um, there's 196 countries in the world and you can just imagine the minimal amount of, um, countries we are allowed to go to, and, um, you know, so. I [00:54:30] think pride globally and locally has to continue to remain a protest until we are safely, um, able to travel, able to navigate this world and able to go back to our own lands as well. I don't know if it's alright, but can I ask a question of the audience? Sweet. 83% What do you think that statistic refers to? We have seven seconds. Just shout out my answers. [00:55:00] No, although that's a good guess. Yeah, perfect. There you go. Perfect. Yeah, so 83 percent of the world's LGBT population is in the closet. And that was some research that, um, Um, was done, I think, two years ago, Yale Mental Health, um, clinic that they have over there. So 83 percent of the world's LGBT population is in the closet. [00:55:30] Um, LGBT identity is still criminalized in 69 countries. Um, the death penalty, sorry, trigger warning, death penalty, um, applies in 11 countries. Um, and it has been used as recently, um, as last year in, um, a, in a country. Um, so, the human rights situations, while we enjoy relative rights freedoms in Aotearoa, I, and I say relative because some of us, some LGBT populations [00:56:00] experience more rights realizations than others. So, my charity last year did a bit of research into the experiences of LGBT South Asians in Aotearoa. Um, and, the, the experiences that we found were alarming. Um, we had instances of really hearty familial violence, um, when people would come out. They would, again, and all of this is a trigger warning in terms of violence, um, their families would turn on them, would beat [00:56:30] them physically, um, would emotionally abuse them, um, conversion practices are definitely a thing in ethnic communities, but they don't actually, um, what the evidence showed is that they didn't happen inside Aotearoa. Um, they were commissioned inside Aotearoa, but then they were sent overseas to do it. Now the new conversion practices law won't do anything about that, because it doesn't criminalise extraterritorial conversion practices. So ethnic LGBT people are fucked over by the law in that regard, [00:57:00] so there's still much more to do in the human rights sphere, in terms of LGBT rights in Aotearoa, but even more so overseas. Um, particularly when we have the world's largest cultural hegemon. The U S A already passing 400 anti L G B T laws this year, and we're proposing them, sorry, I think around about 20 have passed. Um, but the cultural impact that that will have on radicalization, on violence against [00:57:30] our communities is, um, really scary. Um, I would also like to point out in, within this part of politicizing pride, um, is also, even if I'm part of a marginalized community, also question, still questioning myself, where is it, where in these, my identities do I hold privilege? Because a lot of the time there is that. And sometimes it might feel [00:58:00] very, um, abstract. Well, what do we do now? Simple things like, for example, if you're going to organize an event for Pride, make it accessible. Make it accessible in the sense that, for example, I use a cane. I am not able to go to a lot of events or to my friends houses or whatever because I have chronic pain. So I might just be in pain. Or, there's too many stairs and there's no elevator. Like, there's also those other parts of... [00:58:30] Being in a marginalized community that I may be like, well, I do hold certain privileges, acknowledging them, and then saying, where can I go from there? I'd like to keep building on that, Anna. This idea that like, so, you know, we are all here because we hold queer identities and we hold ethnic identities, but we also hold others as well. And I want to have a chat about how challenging that can be for us to hold so many hats. In ourselves, in so many different varying [00:59:00] degrees. So, you know, there are, for me personally, there are some identities that I am very, very staunch in, and I am a very public advocate for, and then there are some things which I'm still so tentative about, because I, you know, am struggling with that idea of like, I'm not sure if I can take up that space, or if I'm ready to claim that, but also battling that idea of like, the intellectual side, which says, you know, that is your identity and you get to take up that space, and you get to claim that, but not always feeling that. And I think a lot of us here hold so many different identities of marginalization, [00:59:30] of privilege. And I would like to just hear your thoughts on how you navigate that in the world, and what advice you give to other people who are also trying to do that every day. I cry a lot. Like, for real. Um, it might sound funny, but I feel like one of the many things that colonization has taken away from us is tenderness, and it is... Um, I feel a lot of these [01:00:00] spaces, there is a lot of talk about fight, which definitely has to happen, but there also has to be some space to be like, you know what, this sucks, and I want to be sad today, and I'm going to cry today, and I'm going to feel my feelings, which is something, again, that has been taken away from us. Something that is like, oh, you're going to start to be dramatic, it's like, yes, because this is something that hurts. And, whereas some people might see that as not quite dealing with it, it is. Because once I'm able to give myself [01:00:30] that space, I'm able to be compassionate to myself, I'm able to be compassionate to others. Um, so yeah, that's what I want to add to that. I really struggle with, um, being black and being queer. Um, I can't hide my blackness, nor do I want to. But if I'm walking into a queer space, people don't see anything other than a black thing. I'm not even a person. I'm objectified, um, tokenized, and fetishized. Um, when I [01:01:00] first arrived in Ponica and I went to like Ivy Bar, I got a lot of Slay Queen and these weird head bops and clicking of the fingers. from a lot of cis white people. So immediately they saw me, a black person, and assumed I'm African American and I'm African American stereotype. And I'm an awkward frickin Nigerian girl. I don't, I don't, none of us do that. It's just, it's a nonsense. Um, but because of that, because I'm only seen as a black thing, I can't even, um, Enjoy [01:01:30] or explore my, my queerness, and I also feel being black, that people don't, I'm not allowed to be soft, I'm not even allowed to even feel soft or be gentle, um, and even feel, or be vulnerable, I never feel like I can be, um, and I absolutely definitely can't be in queer spaces, I, the only time I feel like I can actually use my blackness, or my black queerness, um, For good, is, is really in my work. [01:02:00] Um, I'm at the age now where I just don't care what people think. And so I will openly talk about racism and queerphobia of both of them in the, in my workplace, which is the, the, I cannot tell how white it is. I'm the only black person. Um, and when I arrived, when I first arrived on my first day in my job, someone asked me if I was visiting. Why would I be there at 9am on a Monday morning to visit? I was like... No. Are you? Um, they [01:02:30] were. No they weren't, they weren't. They worked there, they worked there. I should have shown them the door, but they worked there. Um, so yeah, it's a constant struggle, but because I just don't care what people think, and I don't want other, I don't want young queer people, young queer black people, and young black trans people to feel this way. I don't want them to go through that. I don't want them to feel like they can't be themselves. And so I feel like I need to speak up, and I want to, and I just don't care what people think anymore. But it is a constant struggle, and I don't feel like I can do that in queer spaces, [01:03:00] because if I talk about racism in queer spaces, I'm the angry black woman, um, I'm aggressive, I'm gonna be the one that'll be, like, chastised and kicked out, and the community will turn against me. I'm, I can't go and talk to the owner of Ivy and say, look, this happened. They don't care, you know, and I think that probably stands for a lot of BIPOC. Um, and so it's a constant struggle and so you come out of those spaces feeling shit and traumatized. Everybody else has had a good night dancing to Beyonce. I've had a terrible night and now I can't listen to Beyonce. So, and [01:03:30] that's, that's what we go through as BIPOC in queer spaces and that's the tension and that's the struggle and that's why I'm in therapy every week. Um, with the identity, I think, uh, to Chinwe's and Anna's point, I have provided more tenderness to the color of my skin because I, when I grew up in India, there's a lot of colorism that happens and this colorism is very existent in our communities. The browner or the closer you are to melanin, uh, the more, you know, you can get. The more marginalized you are, essentially. I remember growing up as [01:04:00] a child, I would take a rock and like try to scrape the melanin out of my skin because I was made fun of being the darkest in my family. And I had a conversation again with my niece and she was made fun in school for being the brown child. Compared to her mum, who is fairer skinned. And that conversation is still ongoing. So I provide so much tenderness. It's only been the past few years meeting beautiful people who are melanin. Um, to be softer to To the skin color that I am and I'm trying to find more [01:04:30] tenderness in my queerness as well, which I It's an ongoing journey, but the first and foremost thing that people see of me is my brown skin. So I have to protect myself from that. As I walk down Kiewit Street, the racist, uh, courting place, the racism that gets in there, as I work in a place that's full of white people, the racism, the microaggressions that come through there, you know, the way I articulate myself, and because I don't have a particular accent, They think, um, the microaggressions that come out from there as well. You know, when I landed in El [01:05:00] Tiro when I was 18, the first conversation was with a white person saying, You don't smell Indian. And you don't speak like an Indian person. And that, those conversations have been ongoing. The therapist I had last year, she said, a white woman, said, um, Probably your Indian accent will come out as we speak through this conversation at the moment. You know, so I've stopped going to therapy because of the amount of white therapists out there that have kept me unsafe when I've tried to be vulnerable. And it's very hard [01:05:30] for people of color, indigenous and black people, sorry, vulnerable, to be vulnerable. So when you're pushing yourself to get therapy, and then, um, That conversation turns violent really quickly. So your walls are back up again because society and the system in place are not there to protect you at all. Um, you know, I work very closely with the police sometimes as well with some of the diversity liaisons who I absolutely [01:06:00] do not like. Um, you know, they've used. Me, as a brown person, who's connected to black indigenous brown spaces and use my conversation. Um, and I ask them for solutions, you know, what is going to be in place. Um, and they just ignore me. You know, these conversations are ignored. They just use you and take a photo of you. All the time and I'm kind of tired now. So I'm really really tired. I just want to exist and thrive And not fight, [01:06:30] but I know the fight needs to keep going as we've said before but sometimes I just want yeah Just to exist. I'm just tired at the moment Yeah, I, uh, the workplace thing is a whole, a whole moment. I am relatively comparatively incredibly light skinned, uh, and my boss's boss's boss told me that he was scared of me and I was, and I, yeah, uh, had a therapist once tell me they were intimidated by me. So don't go to therapy. [01:07:00] That's why I don't. Anyway. Um, Anna, did you want to make another comment? Yes, um, okay, within this thing of, um, living in more than one intersection. It's also very interesting when your intersections are also ones that you do not see often in front, in front of different rooms. Um, for example, Again, how many Latin American people have you seen in this position? Um, how many [01:07:30] disabled people, physically disabled people have you seen in this position? How many openly neurodivergent people have you seen in this position? And whereas, that's amazing that I'm able to be here. Um, it's very difficult when people think that I have all the answers. I feel like a lot of the time, when you're in activist spaces, people forget that you're a person, that I'm just 27, that I do not know everything. And I think, in the end, what makes difficult for me [01:08:00] personally, having all these intersections, is the expectations that other people put on me. The expectation that because I say I am disabled, I know everything about disability rights, I do not. Um, or they want me to speak on things and tell them always what's correct or look for reassurance. This is very common, I think, um, especially the more intersections you have, especially white people get very excited to talk to you, so that they can pat themselves on the back and be like, look at me, I'm so [01:08:30] inclusive when it's not the case. Or coming up to you and Being like, oh wow, you were such a good speaker, and then trauma dump on you. And it's like, bro, I'm just trying to live my life. Like, calm down. I think that's what's more difficult about navigating this. It's not maybe my own journey, but what other people put on me because of that. Just a note to everybody after this panel, please don't find our panelists and tell them all about your trauma, or what a good ally you [01:09:00] are. Please don't do that. Um. I want to talk about in our, like, our last wee while before we open up for questions about our hopes for people who look like us and how we would like people, like, who are, who are like us to be able to feel in our communities and in queer spaces and in pride spaces. What, what are our hopes and dreams, um, for people, for, for, for the younger [01:09:30] versions of ourselves? What I would hope is that. Okay, so with this is, comes a conversation of representation. And I am personally of the idea of representation is not effective if I am not making space for other people. Representation not about me, Anna, is not about making myself popular or important. But it's so that I am opening the door for other people to come in. So what I am hoping is that, I have already received [01:10:00] more than one message being like, Thank you that there's a Latin American person, because I've been living here 5, 10, 15 years, never have I ever been, um, recognized as part of the community. My hope would be that people see us, see me, and say, I can also do that. Um, and I can talk from experience there. Two years ago I think was the first time you chaired. The only reason I'm here is because Viv, every time I went to an event I would just see Viv. And they would always say hi [01:10:30] to me. That was it. That's all it took. I saw a brown person was always saying hi to me. That was always very nice. And that told me, okay, that means that I can be in this space. I'm not nice anymore. Horrible person. I think for me it's, um, for people to be able to rest. That's the one thing. I think for a lot of us who are activists and, you know, doing this work is, first of all, is free. We do a lot of [01:11:00] free work and a lot of it's demanding. And I just hope Rangatsahi who come can rest and chill and thrive and be in the queerness and the brownness and all intersections safely and comfortably. Um, you know, and I don't mind. Fighting because, and um, advocating because there is a child that did not get that and was me. You know? Um, yeah, so I don't mind being tied for a little bit. But it has come at the, [01:11:30] with pride in particular, it has come at the expense of my mental health as well. Um, and expense of relationships, um, you know, so, I, we just need to find balance and I'm not too sure how to do that yet. So. Shout out to Rust. That's a great question and something I reflect on often because I am, um, you know, still relatively young, um, still don't know what I'm gonna do with my life, blah blah blah. But what I really hope to [01:12:00] see particularly for our rainbow communities is Kind of alongside that rest and balance is enough money to live on every day without having to spend, like, uh, work three jobs while also studying. We know our trans whānau are at higher risks of homelessness. Um, we can't access rainbow and culturally competent mental health services. Um, it's hard to find housing that is... You know, safe, inclusive, warm, dry, all of these kinds of things. Um, and yeah, have enough money so that we don't have to work in a [01:12:30] workplace where you have to stay closeted the whole time and be misgendered constantly. Definitely, totally not what I experienced at all. Um, and so yeah, that's kind of like why I got into politics in general and why I continue staying there because it is tough. It is draining, um, mentally and physically and emotionally, but, um, just the knowledge that, um, even just a little bit. Um, even just a few conversations can help shape the future to be one that, um, we all can thrive in. Um, yeah, that's what keeps me going. [01:13:00] Um, I feel like we're having the same conversations that our, like, our whānau who've come before us have had about our rights and our, um, freedoms. Um, I feel like that's... This is my mouth. Oh, there we go. Um, and I feel, yeah, and that concerns me. And what I want is for, um, Rangatahi not to have to have these conversations because it's done, that it's there, like. We [01:13:30] have more than met the bare minimum. Their rights and their freedoms are there and it's ingrained And it's not this unique or new thing that they have to keep protesting and fighting and end up burnt out like us and burnt Out like our people that came before us and I want them to Instead, be able to talk about their hopes and their dreams, aspirations for themselves that are not, that are just like every other, like CIS person can do. They can talk about, I want to buy a house. I'd have to like, think about, Oh, I need to get access [01:14:00] to quality healthcare. But we do, or, and Transfano do, and Arangatahi Transfano do. And I don't want that for them. I want it to be there already. So they can actually. We can set the pie high and the sky can actually be the limit, as opposed to the bottom of this earth, you know? And so, yeah, that's what I want for them. Um, I'm gonna speak in two contexts, the first being the global, the second Aotearoa. Um, I, oh sorry, there we go, um, I [01:14:30] follow this, um, couple on Instagram, they're like a, uh, gay German couple. Um, and like they travel the world and go to like fancy places and eat at restaurants and stuff like that. Really, really cool. Um, and they've got their rights realizations there. Yep. What I want is a world where all LGBT people have the right to do what they're doing. Yep. Where, um, people in, you know, an LGBT individual in an Indian village, for instance, in Punjab, [01:15:00] in one of the most rural states in India, Um, can, perhaps not, you know, if that's not their manifestation of human rights realizations, that's all good. But can do what they want. They can be open, they can be proud, they can be safe, and they can be free. Um, Because right now what we have is we have inequality in the human rights realizations that the LGBT community is experiencing. You have some subgroups in the [01:15:30] population experiencing, um, um, joy in, um, their human rights. And you have some subgroups in that community experiencing absolute destitution. Um, so yeah, really equality in the way that human rights are manifested throughout the world. Um, um, and I get, on that point actually, you know, there are, I mentioned the 83 percent point as well, I would like to get to a [01:16:00] place where it's zero. Um, That would be lovely. Um, particularly because what that research told us is that the degrees of concealment were highest in Africa and Asia. So that's, that's my place. That's Chinwe's place. Um, um, we need our, um, our places to... Get that statistic down. Um, that's the goal. Um, in terms of domestically, what I, sorry, [01:16:30] I know I talk a bit, I'm verbose, but in terms of domestically, Um, I referred to that research that Adhikar did last year, um, and we had conversion practices, we had familial violence, we had Um, a whole load of things, but the one thing that stood out to me actually was invisibilization. Um, and what invisibilization meant. And it meant that, um, the people that we interviewed, there was one interview that I [01:17:00] remember really vividly. It was a gay Indian man, um, in, um, Hamilton. Now, he's married to a female and has two kids. Um, but... He's never going to be able to live his authentic life, because he was forced into that marriage by his family, and by societal and cultural expectations of what it means to carry on the family name. I would like an Aotearoa where all people, you know, [01:17:30] ethnic people in particular, ethnic LGBT people, Can be their authentic selves and are not forced into situations of inauthenticity because they happen all too often. K. My 2 cents, if anyone was interested, I, when I was a teenager, very angry. Very angry teen, and I thought the anger and kindness were binary. I thought that if I was angry, I couldn't be kind, and if I was kind, I couldn't be angry and my mother would. [01:18:00] It's a big advocate for kindness, and I would get really angry because I felt like that was like a paralytic, like she was tone policing me because I was only allowed to be kind, and as an adult, I've finally realized that they're the same thing, that anger is kindness, and that being kind to yourself is allowing yourself to be angry, and so I think My wish is that we are allowed to be both, and we can hold both, and we can recognize that they're the same thing. And I think that was a really big [01:18:30] revelation for me, and a great step for my relationship with my mother. Um, I, this has been beautiful, and I would like to open to questions, um, for our last six minutes. I would like to open to any of the BIPOC members of the audience to ask any of their pātai or their questions first before we open it up more broadly. So is there anyone here who is BIPOC who would like [01:19:00] to ask a question to any of our panellists? Hi, Steph. Um, thank you so much for sharing your experiences, especially in your diaspora with your queerness and BIPOCness. Um, I'm also an immigrant to Aotearoa via, um, Chula Vista in San Diego. And the Philippines via my parents. What is it about... What is it about immigrating um, to Aotearoa specifically that helps you [01:19:30] feel more enabled to express your QT BIPOC ness? For me... I came to Aotearoa by university. So, um, when we all sat down as a family, um, my mum said, where would you like to go? Very kind of her. And we didn't have the money, but the family pooled in money. So the conversation came to racism. And we chose the least racist country out of the five countries that we picked, which is the Western, so the UK, US, Canada, [01:20:00] Australia, and Aotearoa. And I got admitted to Australia, but, um, there was a lot of hatred at that point in time, 2009, towards Indian people in Melbourne, in particular. Um, so, I came here because it is the least, not zero, racism, it is the least racist country, and for people back home, especially like my mother, to be so fearful about her child to come abroad and know exactly what the consequences are, um, Through racism. And [01:20:30] she, she, she's stunning but um, yeah I never understood the, the effects of racism until I got here. And really it has disturbed me mentally. Um, for me as a person who has not, when I moved here because I noticed a lot of unsafe spaces for QTBIPOC people. I started creating safer spaces, um, to the best of my capabilities, so that I can have beautiful friends to share very similar experiences, [01:21:00] um, to celebrate the uniqueness and the blackness, brownness, and diginity. So, that's how, I don't know, I went away from that question, but, yeah, um, but I'll pass it on to someone else. Oh, then I'm not gonna get killed here. Basically. Um, so yeah, massive trigger warning. If you know anything about Latin America, it's a big trigger warning. So, what enables me to do that is, for example, when I [01:21:30] was in Mexico, I had short hair for a few months, and I had never gotten, um, what they shout at you, shouted at, on the street as much as I did back then. Um, what really makes a difference here is that, even though obviously it's not a perfect system, it's a system where I feel safer than where I was, which is, comes with a lot of mourning, because you're not able to be yourself where you are from, and that hurts a lot. [01:22:00] Um, so that's basically why I am way more open here. Back in Mexico, um, my parents are, for example, they think that homosexuality is a demon. That you need to have an exorcism to be able to take it out. So that gives you like, a context of where I come from. So being here, um, has been a journey because it's reconciling the fact that, yay, I'm like, freer to be [01:22:30] more me, but also knowing that the people that I love and grew up with cannot have that. At least, not as of yet. So, even though I faka papa back to Nigeria, I was born and brought up in the UK, in London. And there is a massive Nigerian population, um, in London. And so my entire life, I was fortunate, um, to like my family and my friends, my aunties, my uncles. Not blood aunties and uncles, but just aunties and uncles were all Nigerian. [01:23:00] Yeah, you know, you know, yeah, all Nigerian. And so I was never, and, and Nigerian, being Nigerian is very much tied up in religion. You're either Christian or you're Muslim and they fight. Um, and most, the civil war was, was about that. Um, and, and so there was no opportunity to even, to explore what it is to be, even to be black. Um. Let alone to even be, be queer, and no one in my family, my sister is absolutely not queer. [01:23:30] Um, my cousins are neither, so I was kind of the, I was always the, the weirdo. Um, and I just, and I, funny enough, I'm actually quite introvert and I get tired of people quite easily and so, there'd be like family dinners on a Sunday and after dinner I'd just go out to my room and I'd be told I was being antisocial, which is incorrect, I was being asocial. Um, and so, um, I moved over here to get away from my family, um, because it was super toxic, um, very toxic. And, um, Trigger warning. I, I, [01:24:00] um, I, I come from a very dysfunctional and abusive family as well. So there was that too. And so, I, a bit like Viv, I was, I was in my, uh, I was like 23, and I was looking at which countries I can move to that aren't racist. And it was Australia, Canada, or New Zealand. Australia's too racist. Canada is too cold. Here I am! Um, I don't regret it at all. Um, and it's only since, like I said, since I moved to Puneca, [01:24:30] and BLM happened, and through BLM and trans, the trans lives matter march I ran, I met Viv, and then I like met my fano, my chosen fano here, had that not happened, um, some of you in the audience, um, um, had that not happened, um, I don't, I actually don't know, I may not, had I not left the UK, I don't know, trigger warning, I don't know if I'd be physically in existence. Any other [01:25:00] questions from our BIPOC whānau? Any other questions from anybody else? Alright, everybody's happy. Kei te pai. Okay. Um, well, does anyone want to add any closing whakaaro? Just thank you for listening. Um, It's, it, we've discussed some very heavy topics. [01:25:30] Um, we have challenged whiteness. And while I don't apologize for that, um, I acknowledge it is heavy, um, for our white people in the audience, and also for our BIPOC in the audience. Um, so I just want to acknowledge that, and I ask that BIPOC in particular, you take some time out to heal and practice self care. That includes us, as well. Um, And, yeah, happy pride. [01:26:00] Um, generally with these conversations, I feel inevitably there's white people who are going to feel like they were told off. You were. And I would say, sit with that, ask why do you feel like you were told off when we did not spoke to anyone specifically. Um, sit with that uncomfortableness and I think it's also very important to acknowledge it, not just pretend that you're the ally of the year for coming here. [01:26:30] Um, I also do want to say, um, yeah, for BIPOC people, well, rather. You heard what we said, a little bit of our backgrounds, things that you wouldn't have known just by looking at us. So, again, special to white people, I invite you to not come to us with dumb questions. Like, a lot of people, trigger warning, drug cartels and stuff. An example is that a lot of people come to me as a Mexican, and they want to connect with me by saying that they like watching the [01:27:00] series Narcos, which is about drug cartels, which destroyed my country. So, with all of this, I am inviting you to take those things into account. We are not here for your curiosity. Um, so yeah, I just wanted to say that, to tell you off once more. Just on the back of that, people always come to me and apologize for the Vietnam War. I don't know why I've not heard that one. No, it's awful. So don't [01:27:30] do that. Um, but also I often say, um, so I run like rainbow competency workshops. Um, and like, other paid mahi, and something we always say in it is, um, people who are cisgender, people who are straight, who have reflected on and questioned that part of themselves but still come to that conclusion, are a lot better at talking about gender and sexuality, um, and sex than those who haven't. And so people who, um, whether that's your like, um, ability, whether or not you're disabled, whether or not you're Pākehā, um, and lots of [01:28:00] different parts of your identity, whether or not you've reflected on them and thought about them, um, you're going to become a lot better at talking about them with people in your own communities and being respectful to people in maybe the more marginalised communities as well. Um, and that takes time and it doesn't mean you don't make mistakes, but, um, I think it's really important to, to reflect on as well. Um, to talk to all my friends, um, what they said, and to all the white people, my bank account number is 36. [01:28:30] That's how you can apologize for the war. Yeah, I'm not kidding. It's built to be paid. But no, thank you so much for coming, thank you so much for supporting Pride, and speaking on behalf of the board. Um, yeah, and listening, and supporting the multiple events that happened over the past two weeks, it's taken a lot of volunteers to, you know, do this. thing for free, and it's taken a lot of hours and arguments and beautiful conversations as well, um, and deals. [01:29:00] Um, but hopefully in the future when we talk about Pride, when we celebrate Pride, there's more intersections that are visible throughout the two week festival and throughout the year when we are celebrating, um, because it should not be limited to the two weeks here in Puneke, it should be celebrated throughout. The conversations should be had throughout the year until we are all liberated. Um, just really briefly, uh, um, celebrate your queerness, be proud about your queerness, um, but, [01:29:30] um, when you do so, do so with purpose, um, and that purpose should be related to the emancipation of LGBT people around the world. Amazing. Um, I really, uh, talk with Gina's, um, Fakaro about reflecting on your identities. I think it's so important that no matter what your identity is, know your history, and know where you come from, and know what you bring to a space. Whether that's a history of marginalization or [01:30:00] privilege, I think that's so important. Um, but other than that, thank you so much for coming along to Pride. Thank you for listening to our whakaaro. Please, as Chinwe said, look after yourselves. Um, sit with that uncomfortable. If you are Pākehā or white and you've really felt challenged, sit with that. Um, and have conversations about it. Um, and, you know, look after yourselves. It's been a, a long couple of weeks for us. It's been a long day for a lot of us. Um, and so we're gonna be taking a lot of time to care for ourselves over the next while, and I encourage you [01:30:30] to, um, if no one has any final, uh, thoughts or questions, I will close with Akia. Um, alright. Tu Mahi. Hau mie, huie, tai kie. Kia ora everybody, have a wonderful evening. Thank you so much, and if you're staying to help us pack out, I love you.
This page features computer generated text of the source audio. It may contain errors or omissions, so always listen back to the original media to confirm content.
Tags